Re: Messed up Email

From	Celejar <celejar@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Messed up Email
Date	2021-06-25 20:50 +0200
Message-ID	<CtZ3P-3BQ-9@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <CtjxE-3qp-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <CtBXz-6og-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <CtDPI-7zp-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <CtGky-vv-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <CtYr7-3p2-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 19:04:57 +0100
Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu 24 Jun 2021 at 18:41:56 -0400, Celejar wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 21:03:28 +0100
> > Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu 24 Jun 2021 at 14:04:13 -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 01:25:37 +0300
> > > > Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On Mi, 23 iun 21, 17:12:07, Michael Grant wrote:
> > > > > > > Apparently the lines are blurry enough for you to include Signal in that 
> > > > > > > list.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Why?  Not blurry at all.  Signal is just as closed a system as
> > > > > > WhatsApp.  Maybe more private, but unless you know something I don't,
> > > > > > Signal doesn't talk to anything other than other Signal.  Puppeted
> > > > > > bridges are not interoperability, as far as I am aware, all users
> > > > > > still need to be on Signal.
> > > > > 
> > > > > You seem to be using a completely different meaning of 'proprietary' (no 
> > > > > federation) than I do (closed source software, proprietary protocol that 
> > > > > must be reversed engineered, patents, etc.).
> > > > 
> > > > Well, Michael's original post that you challenged contrasted:
> > > > 
> > > > > a standards based system such as mail or the web and a proprietary
> > > > > system such as facebook, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc etc.
> > > > 
> > > > Would you call Signal "a standards based system?" I understand that the
> > > > software itself is open source, and the project does publish various
> > > > "Signal Protocal" libraries, but I'm not sure that's quite enough to
> > > > call it "standards based."
> > > 
> > > Michael was desperately trying to sustain his argument that
> > > 
> > > >  email is NOT gmail and let's not forget this.
> > > 
>  > Gmail is standards-based. I expext Signal is too; otherwise it would not
> > 
> > Is there a published, readily available, complete description of Gmail's
> > behavior?
> 
> It's described in the same document dealing also with Yahoo, gmx and
> Zoho :). I expect they have read and taken notice of the RFCs.
>  
> > > work.
> > 
> > ? Are you asserting that any software that works is necessarily
> > standards-based? If so, you must have a very different definition of
> > standards-based from mine.
> 
> I wouldn't want to generalise to that extent. However, your mail made
> it to LDO and was then delivered to me. Gmail must be doing something
> right and standards-based.
> 
> > > standrds-bsaed != free.

No one's denying that Gmail *mostly* follows email standards; the
criticism is that they sometimes deviate from these standards, in
undocumented and often frustrating ways. This may not affect your
use case; that does not mean that it isn't frustrating to others.

> > That's true, of course.
> 
> It is perfectly possible to send and receive mail via gmail without
> ever encountering its web interface. That's no different from any
> other ISP.

Yes, I access Gmail almost exclusively via POP3 and IMAP. And the
clients I use have special workarounds and warnings for Gmail:

https://getmail6.org/faq.html#faq-notabug-gmail-bug
https://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2017/06/how-to-setup-sylpheed-for-gmail-imap-client.html

Celejar

Thread

Messed up Email "Gary L. Roach" <garyroach719@gmail.com> - 2021-06-22 01:30 +0200
  Re: Messed up Email Mark Allums <mark@allums.email> - 2021-06-22 06:10 +0200
  Gmail's special approach to Email [was: Re: Messed up Email] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-22 10:50 +0200
    Re: Gmail's special approach to Email [was: Re: Messed up Email]  (SOLVED) "Gary L. Roach" <garyroach719@gmail.com> - 2021-06-22 22:20 +0200
  Re: Messed up Email Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-06-22 12:40 +0200
    Re: Messed up Email Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-22 13:10 +0200
      Re: Messed up Email Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-06-22 13:20 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-22 13:40 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-22 13:50 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-22 16:50 +0200
    Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 20:40 +0200
      Re: Messed up Email Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 20:50 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 21:00 +0200
      Re: Messed up Email Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-06-22 21:10 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 21:40 +0200
      Re: Messed up Email Michael Grant <mgrant@grant.org> - 2021-06-23 14:00 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-23 21:30 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Brian Thompson <bthompson.deb@gmail.com> - 2021-06-23 23:20 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-23 23:00 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Michael Grant <mgrant@grant.org> - 2021-06-23 23:20 +0200
            Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-24 00:30 +0200
              Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-24 20:10 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-24 20:20 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 12:40 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 13:20 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 15:10 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 16:10 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:40 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-26 13:50 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 16:00 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 18:00 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-28 09:30 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:50 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:30 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-28 08:40 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-24 22:10 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-25 00:50 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-25 20:10 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-25 20:50 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-06-26 04:40 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2021-06-26 15:20 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 12:10 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 14:00 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 12:20 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:20 +0200

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