Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #227062

Re: Buster with MATE without systemd

Show all headers | View raw

On 9/16/20 5:55 PM, David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 16 Sep 2020 at 16:15:12 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:52:15 -0400
>> Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:32:14AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>>>> To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and
>>>> numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has
>>>> become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to successfully
>>>> convert to systvinit.
>>> If you specify "... on a desktop system", then maybe you're correct.
>>>
>>> For most servers, it shouldn't be an issue.
>> The subject _was_ about desktops, MATE specifically, not servers.
>>
>> However, my trials with Buster was from a year ago.  And I haven't
>> tried a sysvinit install with it since. Perhaps some systemd
>> dependencies have been eliminated.  Be great if they all were! Init
>> systems should never ever be dependencies.
> I know little to nothing about DEs. However, I see that there are
> people who run MATE without running a systemd init system. This (dated)
> link makes a distinction between installation dependencies and runtime
> dependencies, so I presume that you might be able to put up with the
> presence of unused systemd packages in the installation.
>
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/279603/using-mate-desktop-without-systemd
>
> Later:
>
>> […] Had no problems converting to
>> sysvinit with a terminal only system.  First thing I did.  I always
>> start my installs that way and build from there.  Lighter, faster, more
>> efficient system without all the crud that comes with a general DE
>> install.
> I would certainly recommend that the OP did that, rather than
> converting as an afterthought.

Unfortunately, as it says at the bottom of that page, systemd-shim is no 
longer available.  It worked in Jessie, I used it then, but is not an 
option, now.

As for installing only a minimal, textbased, system and then converting 
-- I'm sure that works, until you try to install xorg and Mate.  That is 
where things start to get 'fun.'  Dependencies are dependencies.  
Running without a DE, or even a different DE is not an option in this 
case.  I am not the only one using this box.  My wife is now working 
from home and my daughter's college is strictly distance learning.  
(Thank you Caronavirus Pandemic.) I can not go changing how things work 
for them at this time.

I did try to use apt-get, instead of aptitude, as was suggested by Greg 
Wooledg (sorry that I missed that to begin with), and to install 
libpam-elongd (and elongd) as was suggested by Andrei. Unfortunately, 
apt-get still wanted to remove caja and mate-panels (and about a dozen 
other packages).  Without mate-panels, the DE is pretty much unusable.  
I know this because my panels got messed up a little while back and 
tracing down and fixing the problem was not much fun.

This seems to leave me with two options:

1) Bite the bullet and put up with systemd.

2) Switch to Devuan.  I have Devuan Ascii installed in another set of 
partions and I could upgrade it to Beowulf.

I don't really like either of these options.  I have been running Debian 
for the past 21, or 22 years (since Bo, i believe).  I'd rather not 
switch.  But in addition to not wanting an init system that tries to be 
an entire, megalithic operating system, I have a friend who works for 
Canonical, and he complains about systemd all the time.

If anyone can suggest any other options, I am open to suggestions.


Marc

Back to linux.debian.user | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Buster with MATE without systemd Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 04:50 +0200
  Re: Buster with MATE without systemd songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2020-09-16 12:20 +0200
  Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 14:00 +0200
  Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-09-16 14:00 +0200
  Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-09-16 14:40 +0200
    Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Andrew Cater <amacater@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 15:10 +0200
  Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Nito <nito@dismail.de> - 2020-09-16 15:20 +0200
  Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 19:50 +0200
    Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-09-16 20:10 +0200
      Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 01:40 +0200
        Re: Buster with MATE without systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-09-17 03:20 +0200
          Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 04:50 +0200
          Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 05:10 +0200
            Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 06:40 +0200
              Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 09:00 +0200
              Re: Buster with MATE without systemd "Rick Thomas" <rick.thomas@pobox.com> - 2020-09-17 09:10 +0200
              Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 09:40 +0200
    Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-09-16 21:40 +0200
      Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-09-16 22:00 +0200
        Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-09-16 22:10 +0200
      Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 02:50 +0200
    Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 09:40 +0200
      Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-09-19 07:50 +0200
        Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-09-19 13:50 +0200
          Re: Buster with MATE without systemd Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 01:20 +0200

csiph-web