Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC

From	"G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.project
Subject	Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC
Date	2019-12-13 21:50 +0100
Message-ID	<zd02R-Cp-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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At 2019-12-13T11:36:00-0500, Sam Hartman wrote:
> This offended word keeps coming up from people who are concerned about
> the code of conduct.
> I'm kind of confused, because I  don't see it anywhere in the CoC, nor
> do I see people who tend to favor the CoC using the word offended.
> Who's ever said you can't offend people?
> 
> Yeah, purposely going out of your way trying to offend people is very
> likely disrespectful.
> 
> Not caring about the impact you're having on those around you is also
> likely disrespectful.
> 
> But where and how did this ever become about being offended?

Complaints about mistreatment and injustice are reframed by political
conservatives as a tactical maneuver to drain a discussion of any
content relating to mistreatment and injustice and convert it instead
into a conversation about arbitrary rules of etiquette, on par with
distinguishing salad forks from meat forks and whether belching at the
table is considered a compliment to the host.

Relatively few people are conscious of this; they absorb the rhetorical
tricks of their political affinity group often without understanding or
even wondering about the mechanism by which those tricks operate.
Tricks that work to shut down the opposition tend to stick, however, and
offense-reframing has proven successful, so it gets used at every
opportunity.  That part is deliberate and conscious.

Similarly, the harassment and belittling of genderfluid and queer
contributors to many different fields has been perceived as effective in
reducing their level of participation, self-identification, and
"outness".  This is why I identify these practices and their
practitioners as politically conservative.  I care little whether they
cast ballots for Tories, as reprehensible as that is--but it is not a
coincidence that you will find authoritarian and conservative politics
more strongly correlated with obnoxious treatment of Debian's nonbinary
users and contributors than liberalism and socialism are.

And that in turn is in large part why initiatives like a diversity team
or anti-harassment are "controversial"; conservatives intuit that they
are potential obstacles to their unchallenged assertions enforcing the
norms of the bigoted past that linger into the present.  Existing
mechanisms of dominance and control are, broadly, what conservatives
seek to conserve, which is one reason why U.S. conservatives, small-r
republicans by instinct and seldom agitating for a hereditary monarchy,
correctly claim the legacy of Edward Burke, as militant a monarchist as
one can find.

The "controversy" is that some people want the boot heel off their
necks, and conservatives want to keep it there.  When one ventures that
it is incompatible with the Debian Project's values to maintain the boot
heel where it is, the conservative will squawk about his--yes, his, can
anyone name a concrete exception in our community?--free speech being
infringed.  They recognize that the language of rights and frame of
self-expression is potent, which is why they attempt to seize it and
change the subject from, say, a trans person seeking support for their
transitioning process, and onto themselves as being "honestly concerned"
with that person seeking attention or validation of their "defective"
identity.  The conservative seeks to drive such people away, cow them
into silence, or harangue them into "passing" as "normal" by his narrow
standards.  In other words, to shut up and stop being so political.

Conservatism cannot tolerate tolerance.  I do not claim this as a novel
insight[1]; I believe it's been noted on this very forum before, more
than once.  Is there room for conservatives in the Debian Project?
Perhaps--if they're willing to keep their heads down, shut up about
"politics", and work hard to pass as eusocial human beings.  If this
sounds harsh, understand that I've been watching this dynamic in the
project for over twenty years; I had little patience for it in 1998 and
I have less for it now.

Most importantly, understand that it's not like there is nothing in it
for the conservatives in such an arrangement--it is hard to overestimate
the amount of utility they derive from claiming that their foes are
hypocrites[2]; since the Debian Project does not pay monetary wages, one
can scarcely imagine a currency they would value more.  So don't take
their piteous wails too seriously; conservatives also generally valorize
stoicism, hence their idolization of laconic men of action like Clint
Eastwood's Man with No Name.

I do acknowledge that there is a hazard in prescribing boundaries to
discourse, and particularly in impaneling a committee of guardians to
police it; we can all think of examples from the history of
totalitarianism--my favorites are not from the Soviet Union but from the
United States, in the form of the Catholic Legion of Decency (1933) and
the Motion Picture Production Code (1934).  In capitalist societies, you
see, we mistrust the state and prefer to delegate our thought control
apparatus to industry cartels and churches.

A common feature of the aforementioned institutions and of
Goskomizdat in the USSR and the PRC's Propaganda Department is a lack of
accountability to the people they govern; but in Debian any
Diversity/Antiharassment teams would be delegates of the elected Project
Leader or enjoy no special privileges at all.  It is not obvious to me
how there is much scope for such a team to overrun its charter.  To
date, all tears I've seen shed over AH and listmaster activities have
borne a distinctly crocodilian tint.

Finally, I freely admit that my commentary is subject to critique as
being (1) provocative of politically conservative contributors to the
Debian Project; and (2) excessively lengthy.  I regret the second.
Regarding the fist, I would note to anyone contemplating retributive
activity (such as escalation to listmaster or the Diversity team), that
I can only be arsed to compose an email to a public Debian mailing list
on average about once a year since 2015.  Ask yourself if I'm worth the
candle.  :-P

Warmest^WMost fiery regards,
Branden

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
[2] https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha

Thread

Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2019-12-12 11:40 +0100
  Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2019-12-12 11:50 +0100
    Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Sam Hartman <leader@debian.org> - 2019-12-12 13:40 +0100
      Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-12-12 13:50 +0100
      Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2019-12-12 15:40 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> - 2019-12-12 21:50 +0100
  Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2019-12-12 12:20 +0100
  Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC "Adam D. Barratt" <adam@adam-barratt.org.uk> - 2019-12-12 12:30 +0100
  Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org> - 2019-12-12 13:00 +0100
  Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Martina Ferrari <tincho@debian.org> - 2019-12-12 18:00 +0100
    Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2019-12-12 23:40 +0100
      Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC, lglg Geert Stappers <stappers@stappers.nl> - 2019-12-13 00:10 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC, lglg Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2019-12-13 02:40 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC, lglg Geert Stappers <stappers@stappers.nl> - 2019-12-13 07:40 +0100
            Language on Debian lists [was: Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and  the CoC, lglg] Eldon Koyle <ekoyle@gmail.com> - 2019-12-17 16:40 +0100
      Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Martina Ferrari <tincho@debian.org> - 2019-12-13 05:50 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2019-12-13 06:00 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2019-12-13 07:00 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Martina Ferrari <tincho@debian.org> - 2019-12-13 07:50 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2019-12-13 08:10 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> - 2019-12-13 08:30 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2019-12-13 17:30 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-12-13 17:40 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2019-12-13 21:50 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2019-12-15 22:10 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Geert Stappers <stappers@debian.org> - 2019-12-15 23:00 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-12-17 02:40 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-12-17 03:30 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2019-12-17 08:50 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2019-12-17 13:00 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC "Sylvain L. Sauvage" <sylvain.l.sauvage@free.fr> - 2019-12-17 14:00 +0100
      Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2019-12-13 08:20 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Steffen Möller <steffen_moeller@gmx.de> - 2019-12-13 11:50 +0100
      Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org> - 2019-12-13 10:00 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Bernd Zeimetz <bernd@bzed.de> - 2019-12-13 11:00 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2019-12-13 13:10 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2019-12-13 15:30 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org> - 2019-12-13 16:20 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2019-12-14 00:10 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org> - 2019-12-13 20:40 +0100
  Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Martina Ferrari <tina@tincho.org> - 2019-12-19 21:10 +0100
    Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Steve McIntyre <93sam@debian.org> - 2019-12-19 21:40 +0100
      Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-12-20 13:00 +0100
    Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2019-12-20 05:40 +0100
      Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Ulrike Uhlig <ulrike@debian.org> - 2019-12-20 14:00 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2019-12-21 00:50 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-12-21 02:30 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2019-12-22 00:30 +0100
              +1 (Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC) Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2019-12-22 11:30 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Tim Webster <tdwebste@gmail.com> - 2020-01-05 17:30 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Sam Hartman <leader@debian.org> - 2020-01-05 18:40 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-01-07 14:00 +0100
      Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Martina Ferrari <tincho@debian.org> - 2019-12-20 23:50 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2019-12-21 00:30 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-12-21 02:20 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Tiago Bortoletto Vaz <tiago@debian.org> - 2019-12-21 04:30 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC gagz <gagz@immerda.ch> - 2019-12-21 21:10 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Martina Ferrari <tina@tincho.org> - 2019-12-24 17:00 +0100
          I get to hope Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-12-24 19:20 +0100
            Re: I get to hope Andy Simpkins <andy@koipond.org.uk> - 2019-12-24 22:30 +0100
              Re: I get to hope Rhonda D'Vine <rhonda@deb.at> - 2019-12-25 13:10 +0100
            Re: I get to hope gagz <gagz@immerda.ch> - 2019-12-25 04:20 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2019-12-21 21:50 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2019-12-22 10:50 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2019-12-23 12:20 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC gagz <gagz@immerda.ch> - 2019-12-24 14:40 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2019-12-23 22:00 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Martina Ferrari <tina@tincho.org> - 2019-12-24 16:20 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2019-12-25 23:00 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-12-25 23:30 +0100
      Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2019-12-22 17:40 +0100
        Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2019-12-23 01:40 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2019-12-23 13:20 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Iustin Pop <iustin@debian.org> - 2019-12-23 18:00 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-12-23 13:40 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Iustin Pop <iustin@debian.org> - 2019-12-23 17:50 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2019-12-23 19:20 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2019-12-23 22:20 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-12-23 23:20 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Alexander Wirt <formorer@debian.org> - 2019-12-24 10:40 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org> - 2019-12-24 15:50 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Rhonda D'Vine <rhonda@deb.at> - 2019-12-24 13:00 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2019-12-26 13:30 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2019-12-28 01:00 +0100
          Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Dato Simó <dato@debian.org> - 2019-12-30 23:10 +0100
            Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> - 2019-12-31 10:20 +0100
              Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Ulrike Uhlig <ulrike@debian.org> - 2019-12-31 11:10 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> - 2019-12-31 11:10 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2019-12-31 11:40 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2019-12-31 21:50 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2019-12-31 22:20 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> - 2020-01-01 14:50 +0100
                Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC Brian Gupta <brian.gupta@brandorr.com> - 2020-01-04 02:40 +0100

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