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Re: Debian and Non-Free Services

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"Dr. Bas Wijnen" writes:
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 07:49:26PM +0200, Ansgar wrote:
>> >   Subject: Free Software Needs Free Tools
>> >
>> >   No Debian contributor should be expected or encouraged, when working
>> >   to improve Debian, to use non-free tools.
>> 
>> Does this include:
>> 
>>  - non-free firmware on Debian hardware,
>>  - non-free software for interacting with hardware,
>>  - non-free backup systems?
>
> You may be correct. In that case, this GR, if passed, declares that we want to
> change that. Is that controversial?

The GR forbids using any of these.  That is not helpful.

As far as I know there is no mainstream hardware that doesn't require
non-free firmware; using non-mainstream hardware is possible, but has
other problems.

>> >   This includes proprietary
>> >   web services.  We will ensure this, insofar as it is within Debian's
>> >   collective control.
>> 
>> Does this include use of proprietary CDN networks, DNS services, cloud
>> services (such as VMs or storage) or social network services (Twitter)?
>> Again, you probably cannot avoid them when contributing to relevant
>> parts of the project.
>
> Yes, it should mean that. Again, it doesn't mean people are not allowed to use
> them. It means that people who don't want to use them can still contribute to
> Debian. So for example, it would not be allowed to ignore the bts and only
> accept bug reports through Twitter.

So assume I want to avoid using non-free DNS and CDN services, but still
contribute to Debian.  How should that work as long as Debian uses these
services?  How should one contact people using non-free mail services?
(mailto:non-free is probably not better than https://non-free...)

Of course Debian can stop using CDN services and provide a worse
experience for users, but why?  Debian's goal is not to build and
operate a free CDN service...

Ansgar

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Debian and Non-Free Services Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-09-12 19:40 +0200
  Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2019-09-12 20:00 +0200
    Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> - 2019-09-13 01:30 +0200
    Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Bernd Zeimetz <bernd@bzed.de> - 2019-09-16 19:10 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2019-10-04 17:10 +0200
  Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2019-09-12 22:30 +0200
    Re: Debian and Non-Free Services "Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wijnen@debian.org> - 2019-09-13 00:50 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2019-09-13 08:20 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2019-09-13 20:40 +0200
  Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2019-09-12 22:50 +0200
    Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Yao Wei <mwei@debian.org> - 2019-09-13 01:00 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2019-09-13 20:20 +0200
        Re: Debian and Non-Free Services "Yao Wei (魏銘廷)" <mwei@debian.org> - 2019-09-15 23:00 +0200
          Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2019-09-16 15:40 +0200
  Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2019-09-13 02:40 +0200
    Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2019-09-13 04:30 +0200
    Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Louis-Philippe Véronneau <pollo@debian.org> - 2019-09-13 18:00 +0200
    Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2019-10-04 18:00 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2019-10-04 18:30 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2019-10-05 01:20 +0200
        Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Bernd Zeimetz <bernd@bzed.de> - 2019-10-09 16:20 +0200
          Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2019-10-10 00:20 +0200
    Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Ole Streicher <olebole@debian.org> - 2019-10-04 20:40 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> - 2019-10-04 21:20 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2019-10-06 08:50 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Ole Streicher <olebole@debian.org> - 2019-10-06 15:00 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Jose-Luis Rivas <ghostbar@debian.org> - 2019-10-07 05:30 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Michael Lustfield <michael@lustfield.net> - 2019-10-08 10:10 +0200
        Re: Debian and Non-Free Services "Xavier" <yadd@debian.org> - 2019-10-08 13:10 +0200
        Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2019-10-08 17:00 +0200
          Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2019-10-09 00:40 +0200
        Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Ondrej Novy <novy@ondrej.org> - 2019-10-09 12:40 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Bernd Zeimetz <bernd@bzed.de> - 2019-10-09 16:20 +0200
        Re: I think We're Done: Debian and Non-Free Services Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-10-09 17:40 +0200
  Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> - 2019-09-13 09:40 +0200
  Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Andy Simpkins <rattusrattus@debian.org> - 2019-09-13 13:00 +0200
  Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Dmitry Eremin-Solenikov <dbaryshkov@gmail.com> - 2019-09-13 13:10 +0200
    Re: Debian and Non-Free Services MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> - 2019-09-13 15:00 +0200
      Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-09-13 17:00 +0200
        Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2019-09-13 17:40 +0200
          Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2019-09-13 18:00 +0200
          Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Bernd Zeimetz <bernd@bzed.de> - 2019-09-16 19:00 +0200
  Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2019-09-13 13:40 +0200
  Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2019-09-13 19:50 +0200
  Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Bart Martens <bartm@debian.org> - 2019-09-15 20:10 +0200
  Re: Debian and Non-Free Services Anonymous <anonymous@hoi-polloi.org> - 2019-09-16 23:10 +0200

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