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Re: a Constitutional interpretation question

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Hello,

On Tue 15 Apr 2025 at 04:45pm +01, Ian Jackson wrote:

> Looking at the responses to Sean and my draft GR proposal last month,
> it seems that a several people were upset that we were trying to use
> the formal governance mechanism at all.  A lot of electrons were
> expended trying to find reasons why we shouldn't have done that, or
> shouldn't have done it yet.  Frankly, I think we would have got
> similar responses no matter how we'd gone about it.  No amount of
> waiting, or cajoling, or attempts at mediation or negotiation, would
> have been enough.
>
> I think this is because there's a substantial contingent in Debian who
> "hate politics".  They see us "doing politics" and dislike us for it.
> They think think Debian can avoid politics (spoiler: it's a project of
> thousands of humans, we can't) and therefore they think the drama is
> the fault of whoever is complaining.
>
> In these circumstances it is hardly surprising that we have some teams
> that are well-known to be dysfunctional and toxic, but which nothing
> is ever done about.  Anyone who tries to take them on gets punished,
> because taking on toxicity is by definition political.
>
> I wish we could get *better* at doing politics.  If we did it better,
> we would have much a nicer environment *and* we would probably spend a
> lot less emotional energy on the politics, overall.

Right.

And note that this is *entirely* orthogonal to the "free software
should/should not be apolitical" disagreement that comes up over and
over again with the same points of view repeatedly rehearsed.

This is just the simple fact that we are a large group of people trying
to work together.

-- 
Sean Whitton

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Re: a Constitutional interpretation question Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 14:00 +0200
  Re: a Constitutional interpretation question Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-10 20:10 +0200
    Re: a Constitutional interpretation question "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 21:30 +0200
      Re: a Constitutional interpretation question Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2025-04-11 13:20 +0200
    Re: a Constitutional interpretation question Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 14:00 +0200
      Re: a Constitutional interpretation question Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2025-04-14 21:10 +0200
        Re: a Constitutional interpretation question Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-15 17:50 +0200
          Re: a Constitutional interpretation question "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 18:00 +0200
          Re: a Constitutional interpretation question Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-04-16 01:00 +0200
            Re: a Constitutional interpretation question Bart Martens <bartm@debian.org> - 2025-04-17 00:20 +0200
          Re: a Constitutional interpretation question Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2025-04-16 03:20 +0200

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