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"Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?"

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  "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> - 2017-03-31 22:50 +0200
    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Niels Thykier <niels@thykier.net> - 2017-04-01 09:20 +0200
    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> - 2017-04-03 02:30 +0200
      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2017-04-03 07:00 +0200
        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Scott Leggett <scott@sl.id.au> - 2017-04-04 14:10 +0200
        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Timo Aaltonen <tjaalton@debian.org> - 2017-04-04 15:40 +0200
      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> - 2017-04-03 07:40 +0200
        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> - 2017-04-03 08:10 +0200
      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2017-04-04 01:00 +0200
        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-04-04 02:20 +0200
          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2017-04-04 22:50 +0200
            Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 05:20 +0200
              Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> - 2017-04-05 07:00 +0200
                Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Florian Lohoff <f@zz.de> - 2017-04-05 08:10 +0200
                  Laptop reboot and suspend Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2017-04-05 10:30 +0200
                  Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-04-05 13:40 +0200
                    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2017-04-06 00:20 +0200
                      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2017-04-06 21:10 +0200
                        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2017-04-07 01:10 +0200
                          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2017-04-07 02:00 +0200
                            Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2017-04-07 03:00 +0200
                          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> - 2017-04-07 09:20 +0200
                          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Florian Lohoff <f@zz.de> - 2017-04-07 21:10 +0200
                            Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Pavlo Solntsev <pavlo.solntsev@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 22:10 +0200
                          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2017-04-08 09:50 +0200
                            Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2017-04-09 02:40 +0200
                          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Ritesh Raj Sarraf <rrs@debian.org> - 2017-04-08 12:20 +0200
                        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Vincent Danjean <vdanjean.ml@free.fr> - 2017-04-07 13:30 +0200
                    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> - 2017-04-06 01:30 +0200
                      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> - 2017-04-07 04:30 +0200
                      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-04-13 07:30 +0200
                Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 08:40 +0200
                  Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" md@Linux.IT (Marco d'Itri) - 2017-04-05 09:00 +0200
                    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 09:20 +0200
                      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" md@Linux.IT (Marco d'Itri) - 2017-04-05 13:40 +0200
                Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2017-04-05 08:40 +0200
                Attention Russel Stuart Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-04-05 14:00 +0200
                  Re: Attention Russell Stuart Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-04-05 15:30 +0200
    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-04-07 03:00 +0200

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#79040

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Hi,

On 07.04.2017 01:58, Michael Biebl wrote:

>> - Suspend
>> - Hibernate
>> - Airplane-mode Hotkey (especially hard apparently)
>> - Volume Hotkeys
>> - Brightness Hotkeys
>> - Suspend/hibernate hotkeys
>> - Hot-plug of external monitor

> All of the above works flawlessly on my Thinkpad X220 running Debian Sid
> with GNOME.

Fujitsu Lifebook E782:

 - suspend/hibernate: works
 - rfkill: hard switch and button work (although I'd prefer to use the
button as a launcher)
 - touchpad button: works (but doesn't tell the OS)
 - volume/brightness hotkeys: generate X11 key events
 - lock/suspend/hibernate/info hotkeys: generate X11 key events
 - external monitor hotplug: works, except for pulseaudio routing

   Simon

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#79042

On 14635 March 1977, Nikolaus Rath wrote:

> Maybe I'm just exceedingly unlucky, but I have yet to find a laptop
> where all of the following works:
> - Suspend
> - Hibernate
> - Airplane-mode Hotkey (especially hard apparently)
> - Volume Hotkeys
> - Brightness Hotkeys
> - Suspend/hibernate hotkeys
> - Hot-plug of external monitor

I'm pretty happy with my Tuxedo (tuxedocomputers.com) XC17xx. Those are
based on Clevo BareBones which you can find at multiple notebook
sellers (Sanger is a pretty well known one too).

Tuxedo gets them to you with a Linux preinstalled and though thats a
Ubuntu thingie, they offer the script they use for their extra settings
as well as extra .debs for stuff they put on, so its easy to take over
settings and throw away the preinstalled stuff.

With that all of the above works without problems here, even me
regularly switching between Laptop Display only, one external and two
external Displays attached (autorandr a nice tool here).

-- 
bye, Joerg

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#79044

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On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 04:07:54PM -0700, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> Maybe I'm just exceedingly unlucky, but I have yet to find a laptop
> where all of the following works:
> 
> - Suspend
> - Hibernate
> - Airplane-mode Hotkey (especially hard apparently)
> - Volume Hotkeys
> - Brightness Hotkeys
> - Suspend/hibernate hotkeys
> - Hot-plug of external monitor

I have been using IBM/Lenovo T Series for > 15 Years and never had major
issues. Given that with APM nobody expected suspend/resume to work,
optimus grafic is a PITA and a waste of money. I have a T420 currently
where everything works, we have tons of T460 at work and dont have any issues.

There is stuff which does not work - Hot Plug Monitor for example
is an issue. With digital ports e.g. HDMI/DVI/DP this typically
works out of the box - The new display gets detected - The point
is that for me the only desktop which remembered the Display positions
was gnome2 - Its broken since then. So when i dock at work i have
a shell script which uses xrandr to shuffle displays around.

Hotkeys for Suspend/Resume get more or less redundant as the typical
Desktop environment login/logout procedures contain all the
functionality.

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff                                                 f@zz.de
             UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away

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#79045

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Recently bought the newest Dell inspiron. Everything works out of the box.
Didn't play much with HDMI. Know fo sure that video works. With recent
kernel update (Debian testing) even screen rotation works. I am personally
very happy.

-Pavlo Solntsev


On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Florian Lohoff <f@zz.de> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 04:07:54PM -0700, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> > Maybe I'm just exceedingly unlucky, but I have yet to find a laptop
> > where all of the following works:
> >
> > - Suspend
> > - Hibernate
> > - Airplane-mode Hotkey (especially hard apparently)
> > - Volume Hotkeys
> > - Brightness Hotkeys
> > - Suspend/hibernate hotkeys
> > - Hot-plug of external monitor
>
> I have been using IBM/Lenovo T Series for > 15 Years and never had major
> issues. Given that with APM nobody expected suspend/resume to work,
> optimus grafic is a PITA and a waste of money. I have a T420 currently
> where everything works, we have tons of T460 at work and dont have any
> issues.
>
> There is stuff which does not work - Hot Plug Monitor for example
> is an issue. With digital ports e.g. HDMI/DVI/DP this typically
> works out of the box - The new display gets detected - The point
> is that for me the only desktop which remembered the Display positions
> was gnome2 - Its broken since then. So when i dock at work i have
> a shell script which uses xrandr to shuffle displays around.
>
> Hotkeys for Suspend/Resume get more or less redundant as the typical
> Desktop environment login/logout procedures contain all the
> functionality.
>
> Flo
> --
> Florian Lohoff                                                 f@zz.de
>              UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away
>

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#79050

On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 04:07:54PM -0700, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> On Apr 06 2017, Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> wrote:
> > Nikolaus Rath dijo [Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 03:18:57PM -0700]:
> >> >> I have a very different perception
> >> >
> >> > Me too.  I guess it depends very much on whether one can afford to buy
> >> > a good laptop which works well with Linux.
> >> 
> >> I think there's a pre-requisite that's much harder for a lot of people:
> >> finding out what laptop works well with Linux. This is the stage where I
> >> have repeatedly failed - the differences in model numbers are just too
> >> tiny and subtle, and typically things that work well are no longer sold
> >> commercially.
> >
> > FWIW it's been a long time since I had any problems in this regard,
> > and I'm surprised it's still an issue among knowledgeable people by
> > 2017!
> 
> Maybe I'm just exceedingly unlucky, but I have yet to find a laptop
> where all of the following works:
> 
> - Suspend

I found that when I switched my laptop from sysvinit to systemd, this started
to work flawlessly.

I'm not saying you need to switch to systemd if you haven't yet already,
but it might be a bug in whatever you're using to suspend, rather than
in Linux in general.

> - Hibernate

Don't use that anymore, personally, so no idea.

> - Airplane-mode Hotkey (especially hard apparently)
> - Volume Hotkeys
> - Brightness Hotkeys
> - Suspend/hibernate hotkeys

These are all implemented by ACPI on modern hardware. You need to have
something that turns the ACPI events into something useful.

If you have acpid installed, it usually turns the ACPI events into X11
key events, which you can monitor with the "xev" tool. It is then up to
your window manager to do something useful with that (or up to you to
configure your window manager to do so).

Most desktop environments' window managers deal with all that the right
way, but if you're using something more basic, you might have to deal
with it yourself. For instance, at one point I added the following to my
awesomewm's rc.lua:

    awful.key({ }, "XF86MonBrightnessDown", function() awful.util.spawn("xbacklight -dec 5") end),
    awful.key({ }, "XF86MonBrightnessUp", function() awful.util.spawn("xbacklight -inc 5") end),
    awful.key({ modkey }, "XF86MonBrightnessDown", function() awful.util.spawn("xbacklight -set 1") end),
    awful.key({ modkey }, "XF86MonBrightnessUp", function() awful.util.spawn("xbacklight -set 100") end),

(this doesn't work currently because the Intel KMS driver doesn't
support xbacklight, but that's a different matter)

> - Hot-plug of external monitor

Haven't gotten that to do anything useful, but then I also don't want it
to (I just run xrander and tell it what I want changed).

> >From memory, some of the models I tried and found lacking: Asus EeePC,
> Lenovo Carbon X1, HP Elitebook from ~3 years ago, HP Elitebook from just
> now.
> 
> Suggestions for the next purchase are welcome :-).
> 
> (but probably better off-list)

I've not had any serious issues over the past three laptops:

- Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebook E734 (current)
- Lenovo X220 (N-1)
- HP something (cheap one, crappy battery life, N-2)

Sometimes you need to fiddle with configuration a bit if you're not
using things like gnome or KDE that set it all up for you, but that's
the choice you make.

-- 
< ron> I mean, the main *practical* problem with C++, is there's like a dozen
       people in the world who think they really understand all of its rules,
       and pretty much all of them are just lying to themselves too.
 -- #debian-devel, OFTC, 2016-02-12

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#79053

On Apr 08 2017, Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> wrote:
>> - Airplane-mode Hotkey (especially hard apparently)
>> - Volume Hotkeys
>> - Brightness Hotkeys
>> - Suspend/hibernate hotkeys
>
> These are all implemented by ACPI on modern hardware. You need to have
> something that turns the ACPI events into something useful.
>
> If you have acpid installed, it usually turns the ACPI events into X11
> key events,
[...]

The "usually" is the problem :-).

>> - Hot-plug of external monitor
>
> Haven't gotten that to do anything useful, but then I also don't want it
> to (I just run xrander and tell it what I want changed).

That's what I mean. But again, xrandr doesn't always see a monitor when
you plug it in. And at the moment my X11 crashes when I unplug the
HDMI connection without first explicitly turning it off.


Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

             »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

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#79051

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On Thu, 2017-04-06 at 16:07 -0700, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> > FWIW it's been a long time since I had any problems in this regard,
> > and I'm surprised it's still an issue among knowledgeable people by
> > 2017!
> 
> Maybe I'm just exceedingly unlucky, but I have yet to find a laptop
> where all of the following works:

You're not alone.

It is a Hit/Miss situation. When you hear a hardware advertised as, "Works well
with Linux", it is important to investigate which Linux ?

Because Debian is pure, others are not. Debian mostly relies on fixes that have
reached the upstream kernel. Many others do not.

Once you overcome that, you still have the binary firmware's behavior to deal
with. Lucky you, if all those combinations, together, work fine for you.

Debian should have a Hardware Certification process in place. That'll help a lot
many users.


-- 
Given the large number of mailing lists I follow, I request you to CC
me in replies for quicker response

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#79043

Le 06/04/2017 à 21:08, Gunnar Wolf a écrit :
> Nikolaus Rath dijo [Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 03:18:57PM -0700]:
>> I think there's a pre-requisite that's much harder for a lot of people:
>> finding out what laptop works well with Linux. This is the stage where I
>> have repeatedly failed - the differences in model numbers are just too
>> tiny and subtle, and typically things that work well are no longer sold
>> commercially.

This is even more difficult when you are required to choose between
a subset of a particular vendor due to professional rules ("marchés
publiques" in French)

> FWIW it's been a long time since I had any problems in this regard,
> and I'm surprised it's still an issue among knowledgeable people by
> 2017!

The previous rules make us choose DELL laptop. It worked reasonably
well. For my last laptop, I had to choose a HP one (ZBook 15). It is
a pity. I cannot suspend/restore reliably if I want to use the
NVidia card with the nouveau driver (I never tried the non-free
NVidia one) and not only the Intel card (and, on my laptop, the
external DP port is only wired to the NVidia card...)
  I already reported some bugs in the kernel/acpi/nouveau that
have been fixed. But it was 'easy' : these bugs were systematic/
reproducible.
  I've to create a new (kernel) bug with the current situation but
it is difficult to do so. The freeze are not systematic, they are
hard freeze (nothing in the logs), generally after a resume.
I'm under the impression they occur in ACPI routines.
Currently, I'm using the 4.7.0-1-amd64 kernel that allows me to
suspend/resume about 10 times between freeze (and hard reboot).
I've to test the 4.9 and 4.10 newly uploaded, but a few days ago,
with the previous versions, the 4.9 and 4.10 were freezing at nearly
each resume.

  Two days ago, I ran the Ubuntu firmware tests on this laptop:
Test           |Pass |Fail |Abort|Warn |Skip |Info |
---------------+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+
[...]
Total:         |  981|  195|    2|   33|  222|   11|

  I think the HP Bios is not really of good quality...

  Regards,
    Vincent

-- 
Vincent Danjean       GPG key ID 0xD17897FA         vdanjean@debian.org
GPG key fingerprint: 621E 3509 654D D77C 43F5  CA4A F6AE F2AF D178 97FA
Unofficial pkgs: http://moais.imag.fr/membres/vincent.danjean/deb.html
APT repo:  deb http://people.debian.org/~vdanjean/debian unstable main

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#79019

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On Wed, 2017-04-05 at 12:38 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Me too.  I guess it depends very much on whether one can afford to
> buy a good laptop which works well with Linux.

Not in this case.  My laptop concerned is an Dell XPS 9550.  It wasn't
cheap and in the 12 months of ownership I'd describe the hardware as
better than "good".  Dell's part of the design is not big part of the
total of course, Intel, Sony, Broadcom, Samsung to name a few all have
their fingers in the pie, as they do in every laptop.  But bits Dell
did contribute are extraordinarily well done, with the exception of the
keyboard layout.  It's definitely the best laptop I've ever owned.

My pain is largely self inflicted: I covet shiny bits.  Lots of
companies sell new laptops with bits a couple of years old that work
with Debian stable.  Knowing this, I bought the XPS anyway.

Although there are components in this laptop, almost of the pain come
from one: Intel's Skylake CPU.  (The touchpad also contributed but the
libinput maintainers were fantastic, going way above and beyond the
call of duty and contacting me directly when I complained on LWN.  It
now works wonderfully; worth the early adopter pain then some.) 
Getting Intel's CPU and in particular it's internal GPU working took
far longer and involved more pain than that I bargained for.  Just to
put this into perspective: they didn't work on Windows either.  Intel
CPU's are not something you can avoid by buying a more expensive
laptop.

All this new hardware has meant I have had to run Debian Testing. 
Combine shiny new hardware with the shiny new software needed to drive
it, and random little surprises become part of ones life.  Coming close
to dropping your new laptop because of a burning sensation as you
retrieve it from it's bag wasn't surprising or even unexpected - not to
me anyway.

Anyway, this discussion prompted me to get off my bum and look at why
unattended-upgrades wasn't working.  Turns out the default install has
"label=Debian-Security", and all these laptops are running testing.  I
guess the assumption that people running testing have the wherewithal
to configure their machines properly isn't unreasonable.

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#79041

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On Thu, 2017-04-06 at 09:22 +1000, Russell Stuart wrote:
> Anyway, this discussion prompted me to get off my bum and look at why
> unattended-upgrades wasn't working.  Turns out the default install
> has "label=Debian-Security", and all these laptops are running
> testing.  I guess the assumption that people running testing have the
> wherewithal to configure their machines properly isn't unreasonable.

And ... that wasn't the full story.  The full story is when you install
unattended-upgrades it defaults to "off", or more precisely this
debconf setting default to "false":

    unattended-upgrades/enable_auto_updates

This sort of thing drives me insane.  Unattended-upgrades doesn't do
anything if you don't set this to true, and why would you install it if
you didn't want it to run?  I guess it must be because some packages
depend on it, and maybe they run it themselves rather than relying on
anacron.  If that's the reason the solution is to split into two
packages, maybe "unattended-upgrades" which does do what it says on the
box and "unattended-upgrades-common" witch other packages can depend on
safely.

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#79100

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:22 AM, Russell Stuart wrote:

> Anyway, this discussion prompted me to get off my bum and look at why
> unattended-upgrades wasn't working.  Turns out the default install has
> "label=Debian-Security", and all these laptops are running testing.  I
> guess the assumption that people running testing have the wherewithal
> to configure their machines properly isn't unreasonable.

Theoretically security.d.o does support security upgrades for testing
but in practice those happen via unstable. To get security upgrades
from unstable and everything else from testing, I pin testing >
unstable and use a script to pin security upgrades based on the output
of debsecan.

The script is available in this mail:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725934#20

Needs this setup also:

ln -s /var/lib/debsecan/apt_preferences /etc/apt/preferences.d/debsecan

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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#79007

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On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 08:34:44AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> as by that point you've already closed the laptop and are putting it
> into your bag
I don't trust Linux enough to put my laptop into the bag not checking that
it is indeed suspended.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#79009

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On Apr 05, Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> wrote:

> I don't trust Linux enough to put my laptop into the bag not checking that
> it is indeed suspended.
Indeed, about every month my Latitude immediately wakes up after 
suspend, and when this happen I can only reboot it because it will keep 
waking up again after every attempt at suspending.

-- 
ciao,
Marco

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#79010

On Wed, 05 Apr 2017 08:54:57 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:

> On Apr 05, Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> wrote:
> > I don't trust Linux enough to put my laptop into the bag not checking that
> > it is indeed suspended.
> Indeed, about every month my Latitude immediately wakes up after 
> suspend, and when this happen I can only reboot it because it will keep 
> waking up again after every attempt at suspending.

The last time I had this issue, `echo mem > /sys/power/state' helped. 


Cheers,
gregor

-- 
 .''`.  https://info.comodo.priv.at/ - Debian Developer https://www.debian.org
 : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D  85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06
 `. `'  Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe
   `-   BOFH excuse #443:  Zombie processes detected, machine is haunted. 

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#79014

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On Apr 05, gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> wrote:

> > Indeed, about every month my Latitude immediately wakes up after 
> > suspend, and when this happen I can only reboot it because it will keep 
> > waking up again after every attempt at suspending.
> The last time I had this issue, `echo mem > /sys/power/state' helped. 
I expect that systemd correctly manages to do this since the system 
really suspends. But just for one second.

-- 
ciao,
Marco

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#79008

On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 02:56:04PM +1000, Russell Stuart wrote:
> As far as I can tell, for laptop's rebooting is a non-issue mainly
> because suspend is not reliable enough to use safely [0] - so they are
> rebooted every day.  Ergo just fixing bug #744753 would be the cure if
> it is indeed the problem - but it doesn't sound like it to me as this
> isn't a suspend issue.
> 
> [0] By "not safe" I mean suspend can destroy hardware.  Not directly of
>     course.  The first issue is modern laptops have so much DRAM it
>     can drain the battery overnight, which makes suspend pretty useless
>     if you are expecting it to reliably save your work.  The solution
>     is put the laptop into hibernate mode if it's been suspended too
>     long.  This works mostly - but it has one disastrous failure mode.
>     It must wake the laptop up to put it into hibernate mode but
>     sometimes it doesn't wake successfully. The result is the
>     motherboard is powered up, the laptop is in the bag with no 
>     ventilation and the thing cooks.

If you run into such problems, you want to use pm-suspend-hybrid.  In fact,
I'd say it should be the default -- it makes suspend (but not resume)
slower, which matters jack as by that point you've already closed the laptop
and are putting it into your bag, thus you don't give it any attention
anymore.

-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Meow!
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Collisions shmolisions, let's see them find a collision or second
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ preimage for double rot13!

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#79016 — Attention Russel Stuart

Hi Russel.  Our mail servers seem to be fighting.  Could you contact
me at
   postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.u  (bypasses spamfilter)
   hqon7c@fyvzl.net                  (bypasses spamfilter even more)
   irc: Diziet on oftc or freenode

The complaint from your MTA is that you can't mail postmaster@chiark.
If true, that would be a bug, and I would like more information so I
can fix it.

I tried to mail postmaster@stuart but it bounced - see below.

Thanks,
Ian.

From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
To: ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 12:46:28 +0100

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  postmaster@stuart.id.au
    SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
    host stuart.id.au [58.105.229.78]: 550-Your email server chiark.greenend.org.uk is not accepting email's to
    550 postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk.  See RFC 5321, section 4.5.1.

------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------

Return-path: <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Received: by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 4.84_2 #1) with local
	(return-path ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk)
	id 1cvjNt-0005vc-Km
	for postmaster@stuart.id.au; Wed, 05 Apr 2017 12:45:57 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
	 boundary="TFWa2mhyNg"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <22756.55541.556298.961719@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 12:45:57 +0100
From: Ian Jackson as chiark postmaster <postmaster@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
To: postmaster@stuart.id.au
Subject: forwarded message from Mail Delivery System
X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 24.4.1 (i586-pc-linux-gnu)

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#79017 — Re: Attention Russell Stuart

Ian Jackson writes ("Attention Russell Stuart"):
> Hi Russell.  Our mail servers seem to be fighting.  Could you contact

Fixed my misspelling of your name.  I'm very sorry!

Ian.

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#79039

On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 4:48 AM, Chris Lamb wrote:

> There's a very active conversation happening on Hacker News right
> now entitled «What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?»:
>
>   https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002821

There is a followup and some analysis of the thread here:

http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2017/04/thank-you-note-to-hackernews.html

It is being discussed here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14049868

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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