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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ incorrect question ] |
| Date | 2021-07-04 01:44 +0100 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <87zgv2di12.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink) |
| References | <hKudnUFx1oVw4n39nZ2dnUU7-aPNnZ2d@giganews.com> <chine.bleu-A53CF8.11005703072021@reader.eternal-september.org> <tbqdnfqAodu7NH39nZ2dnUU7-IvNnZ2d@giganews.com> <87o8bjdur3.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <r-GdnXHIlvPzTH39nZ2dnUU7-KXNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
> In the halting problem there exists TM/input pairs such that TM X
> cannot return the correct halt status to input I.
That's badly worded but you have the gist of it. No TM computes the
halting function because, for every TM, there is an infinity of inputs
which are incorrectly accepted or rejected by that TM.
Could you move on now?
> Since there is no existing term-of-the-art for this case I will call
> it an incorrect question.
That's an odd thing to call it, but if it makes you happy, go ahead.
Other people just call these the cases where X(I) does not correspond to
halts(I) -- colloquially, the cases X gets wrong.
> An incorrect question Q is
> (a) Question / decision problem Q
> (b) Posed to (person / TM) X
> (c) About (subject matter / input) I
> (d) Such that the answer A to Q posed to X about I has no
> correct value from the set of {yes,no} / {true,false}
> All undecidable decision problems are only "undecidable" because they
> are based on incorrect questions.
But, as you know, every instance of the halting problem has a correct
yea/no answer. This is also true, by definition, of every decision
problem. If there are any instances without a correct yes/no answer,
it's not decision problem. Whatever you are trying to fudge with your
hand-waving (a) to (d) and the weasel words "based on", it can't apply
to the halting problem.
Rather than waffle, why not build on the work of others? Just declare
that every undecidable problem (as established by the various theorems)
are what you will call "incorrect questions"?
--
Ben.
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Could H correctly decide that P never halts? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 10:19 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-03 08:25 -0700
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 10:32 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-03 11:56 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 11:19 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-07-03 18:28 +0200
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 11:51 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-07-03 19:18 +0200
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 12:19 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-07-03 19:33 +0200
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-03 19:10 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 13:49 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-03 14:29 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-03 17:25 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 11:49 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-03 14:17 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 14:08 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-03 15:43 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 15:37 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-03 17:58 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 17:20 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-03 18:55 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-03 23:57 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 18:13 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-03 19:04 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 18:34 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-03 20:06 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 19:26 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-03 21:21 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 20:41 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-03 22:13 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 21:22 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-03 23:24 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 22:32 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-04 06:40 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-04 09:24 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ prerequisites to understanding me] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-04 14:50 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-03 19:14 -0600
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 20:38 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-03 22:14 -0600
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-03 22:18 -0600
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 23:18 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-04 00:50 -0600
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-04 09:15 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-04 10:31 -0600
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 08:07 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-04 11:24 -0700
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-04 13:00 -0600
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-04 15:09 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-04 13:30 -0700
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 08:23 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-05 07:18 -0700
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 09:31 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 11:10 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 10:18 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 11:29 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 12:53 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 12:13 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-04 14:55 -0600
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2021-07-04 18:03 -0700
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-04 20:42 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-04 22:31 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 08:05 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 08:40 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 12:13 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-04 23:20 -0600
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2021-07-05 18:49 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-05 15:17 -0600
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 17:38 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-04 23:52 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 10:36 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 09:51 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 11:36 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 08:18 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 12:11 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Why can H ignore its own behavior? ](my thanks to Richard) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-04 15:02 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-03 21:20 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 16:21 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-04 01:23 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 19:30 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-04 17:46 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-04 12:00 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-05 02:04 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-04 20:57 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-05 03:14 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-04 21:28 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-04 22:33 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-04 22:09 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 07:33 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 08:38 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 10:57 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 09:59 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 11:34 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 13:16 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 12:48 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 14:36 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 12:18 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-05 23:58 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 19:54 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 21:29 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 03:35 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 22:30 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 06:47 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 04:15 -0700
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 13:23 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 07:21 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ halting criteria ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 08:26 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ halting criteria ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 10:50 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ halting criteria ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 09:56 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 10:30 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 09:33 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 11:02 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] (correction) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 09:35 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] (correction) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 12:38 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] (correction) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 12:10 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ already agreed ] (correction) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 13:43 -0400
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ Richard's excellent summation ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 19:12 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 11:01 -0700
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 13:15 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-03 21:09 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ incorrect question ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 16:06 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ incorrect question ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-04 01:44 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ incorrect question ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 19:59 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ incorrect question ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-04 02:34 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ incorrect question ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 20:46 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? [ incorrect question ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-04 17:45 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-03 19:15 +0100
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-03 13:58 -0500
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 22:37 -0700
Re: Could H correctly decide that P never halts? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-04 14:14 +0100
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