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OT: For all the Window haters

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  OT: For all the Window haters mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-08-05 21:47 +0100
    Re: OT: For all the Window haters Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-06 00:58 +0100
      Re: OT: For all the Window haters Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2015-08-06 07:48 +0100
        Re: OT: For all the Window haters David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-08-06 08:43 +0100
          Re: OT: For all the Window haters Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2015-08-06 10:28 +0100
          Re: OT: For all the Window haters Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-06 09:57 +0000
          Re: OT: For all the Window haters Brian Reay <no.sp@m.com> - 2015-08-06 10:58 +0100
            Re: OT: For all the Window haters Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2015-08-06 14:55 +0100
              Re: OT: For all the Window haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-06 19:27 +0100
                Re: OT: For all the Window haters mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-08-06 19:46 +0100
                  Re: OT: For all the Window haters Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2015-08-06 20:59 +0100
                  Re: OT: For all the Window haters Graham. <me@privicy.net> - 2015-08-07 00:22 +0100
                    Re: OT: For all the Window haters mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-08-07 17:12 +0100
                      Re: OT: For all the Window haters notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2015-08-07 16:22 +0000
      Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-06 09:55 +0000
    Re: OT: For all the Window haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-06 10:38 +0100
    Re: OT: For all the Window haters druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-08-07 08:18 +0100
    Re: OT: For all the Window haters Jim Diamond <Jim.Diamond@deletethis.AcadiaU.ca> - 2015-08-07 18:53 -0300
      Re: OT: For all the Window haters Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-08 08:13 +0000
        Re: OT: For all the Window haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-08 10:01 +0100
        Re: OT: For all the Window haters mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-08-08 14:14 +0100
          Re: OT: For all the Window haters Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-08 13:31 +0000
            Re: OT: For all the Window haters mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-08-09 00:14 +0100
              Re: OT: For all the Window haters Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-09 07:22 +0000
                Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-09 10:11 +0000
                  Re: OT: For all the Window haters Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-09 11:28 +0000
                    Re: OT: For all the Window haters Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-09 13:30 +0100
                      Re: OT: For all the Window haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-09 16:00 +0100
                        Re: OT: For all the Window haters Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-09 18:04 +0000
                          Re: OT: For all the Window haters mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-08-09 20:11 +0100
                    Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-09 14:06 +0000
                    Re: OT: For all the Window haters druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-08-09 21:32 +0100
                      Re: OT: For all the Window haters Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-09 21:16 +0000
                      Re: OT: For all the Window haters Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2015-08-10 11:05 +0100
                        Re: OT: For all the Window haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-10 13:51 +0100
                        Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-10 17:13 +0000
                          Re: OT: For all the Window haters Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2015-08-11 11:40 +0100
                            Re: OT: For all the Window haters Tony van der Hoff <tony@vanderhoff.org> - 2015-08-11 13:07 +0200
                            Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-11 12:59 +0000
                              Re: OT: For all the Window haters Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2015-08-15 09:44 +0100
                                Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-15 10:07 +0000
                                  Re: OT: For all the Window haters Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-15 16:13 +0100
                                    Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-15 19:54 +0000
                                      Re: OT: For all the Window haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-15 23:59 +0100
                                        Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-16 00:13 +0000
                                          Re: OT: For all the Window haters Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2015-08-16 11:02 +0100
                                            Re: OT: For all the Window haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-16 12:58 +0100
                                          Re: OT: For all the Window haters Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-16 10:51 -0400
                                            Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-16 19:05 +0000
                                          Re: OT: For all the Window haters druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-08-16 23:03 +0100
                                            Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-16 22:55 +0000
                                              Re: OT: For all the Window haters druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-08-17 21:46 +0100
                                      Re: OT: For all the Window haters Mike Fleming <{mike}@tauzero.co.uk> - 2015-08-16 14:26 +0100
                                        Re: OT: For all the Window haters Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2015-08-16 17:02 +0100
                                      Re: OT: For all the Window haters Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2015-08-16 17:02 +0100
                                        Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-16 19:18 +0000
                              Re: OT: For all the Window haters "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2015-08-18 19:39 +0100
                  Re: OT: For all the Window haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-09 15:56 +0100
                    Re: OT: For all the Window haters Tonton Th <tTh@nowhere.invalid> - 2015-08-09 14:59 +0000
                    Re: OT: For all the Window haters Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-09 16:55 +0000
                      Re: OT: For all the Window haters Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-09 16:38 -0400
                Re: OT: For all the Window haters mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-08-09 19:55 +0100

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#9346 — OT: For all the Window haters

There's plenty of Windows haters in this group so here is something just 
for them.

Normally Windows is the OS with all the latest support for the devices 
and Linux is the OS that has issues. Sometimes due to manufacturers who 
wont release the necessary info to the open source world. (Broadcom!)

So... I bought a new AC1200 802.11ac router yesterday. Works like a 
dream and I'll OpenWrt it this weekend if I get time. My company laptop 
has 802.11ac Wifi and I get 867Mbps on 5GHz and 300Mbps on 2.4GHz. My 
own laptop only has an old 802.11n Wifi adapter that connects at 72Mbps 
on 2.4GHz. Time to get a better mini PCIe Wifi card.

Where I work we have about 12000 employees and so 12000 Windows laptops 
exist. We run them for 3 years till the warranty expires then they get 
given to charities. In my office we tend keep them for an extra 18months 
used to mimic customer software environments, say Japanese Win7 plus our 
software or Ubuntu rather than RedHat. Anyway they all have Wifi so I 
thought I'd pull a few cards and try them at home, find our which one 
works best and get one of those from eBay for a few pounds.

1st up Intel Advance 6200-AGN, dual band, 802.11n 300/300Mbps. Popped it 
into my laptop, boot Mint 13xcfe, Wifi works, connect on 5GHz, 150Mbps 
best speed, good throughput. Onto 2.4GHz and 300Mbps everytime and 
really good throughput. The 5GHz performance was not so good but I was 
hoping the driver will have moved on when I get round to upgrading to 
Mint17. Time to try Windows. Boot same PC into Win7 64bit and there's no 
Wifi but a new network adapter was found wanting drivers. No driver 
found using Windows Update, time for Intel's website. I downloaded the 
driver scanner (which was a big bloaty piece of software) and it ran 
with all sorts of animated nonsense and identified a newer motherboard 
driver and the Wifi driver. Another 28MB and 92MB download later (92MB 
for a Wifi driver !!!!!) and I ran the installer, more animations and 
several minutes later all done.

No Wifi. Device Manager helpfully reported "This device cannot start. 
(Code 10)". Power off, reboot. No Wifi. 2hours of fannying about later, 
multiple Google searches and the bloody Wifi still doesn't work on 
Windows. There's repeated tales of woe on the net. The mad thing is the 
card originally came in a laptop running Win7 64bit but I'm buggered if 
I can find a set of drivers that will work.

This is back to front. Normally it's Windows that just works. With 
Linux, especially on a laptop, you expect to have a bit of mucking about 
needed to get things like laptop special keys to work (LCD brightness 
etc.) or Wifi needing some extra firmware or maybe a command line option 
so graphics works. I've been running Windows since before Win 3.0 and 
Linux since 1998 on SPARC, PA-Risc, MIPS, Arc, ARM, all Intel/AMD x86s, 
Hitachi SH3/SH4 and never have I had a case where the drivers/hardware 
works on Linux but not on Windows.

This can only mean that Linux on the desktop has finally arrived and I 
didn't notice! It also taught me it's probably best to avoid Intel Wifi 
hardware and software irrespective of the OS.

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#9347

On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 21:47:32 +0100
mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> wrote:

> This is back to front. Normally it's Windows that just works. With 
> Linux, especially on a laptop, you expect to have a bit of mucking
> about needed to get things like laptop special keys to work (LCD
> brightness etc.) or Wifi needing some extra firmware or maybe a
> command line option so graphics works. I've been running Windows
> since before Win 3.0 and Linux since 1998 on SPARC, PA-Risc, MIPS,
> Arc, ARM, all Intel/AMD x86s, Hitachi SH3/SH4 and never have I had a
> case where the drivers/hardware works on Linux but not on Windows.
> 
> This can only mean that Linux on the desktop has finally arrived and
> I didn't notice! It also taught me it's probably best to avoid Intel
> Wifi hardware and software irrespective of the OS.
> 
Linux hardware detection and driver installation has been a lot better
in the last two or three years.   At least that's how it seems to me,
mostly using *buntu and other Debian based distros.

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#9348

On 06/08/15 00:58, Rob Morley wrote:
> Linux hardware detection and driver installation has been a lot better
> in the last two or three years.   At least that's how it seems to me,
> mostly using *buntu and other Debian based distros.

My last Debian install was smoother and faster than any Windoze install
I've ever done. Debian 7 on a laptop (now six and half years old) is far
and away the best computer system I've ever had. Soon I'll give it a new
2TB HDD and install Debian 8, which will bring it as up to date as it
needs to be for another year or two, while Windoze users shell out
what--1000EUR?--on new hardware to feed Micro$oft's latest tumour, and
keep the spooks and malware breeders distracted.

Living with GNU/Linux is good.

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#9349

On 06/08/2015 07:48, Hils wrote:
> On 06/08/15 00:58, Rob Morley wrote:
>> Linux hardware detection and driver installation has been a lot better
>> in the last two or three years.   At least that's how it seems to me,
>> mostly using *buntu and other Debian based distros.
>
> My last Debian install was smoother and faster than any Windoze install
> I've ever done. Debian 7 on a laptop (now six and half years old) is far
> and away the best computer system I've ever had. Soon I'll give it a new
> 2TB HDD and install Debian 8, which will bring it as up to date as it
> needs to be for another year or two, while Windoze users shell out
> what--1000EUR?--on new hardware to feed Micro$oft's latest tumour, and
> keep the spooks and malware breeders distracted.
>
> Living with GNU/Linux is good.

I'm not expecting to pay any more for Windows-10 than I already have - 
nothing.  The upgrades I've already done have required no extra 
hardware, if a PC can run Win-7 or Win-8 it likely has the hardware 
capability to run Win-10 (1 GHz processor, 1 GB memory....).

Whilst I run both Linux and Windows, as I have to run a number of 
Windows programs Linux is not universally suitable for me.  And I can 
use Windows-10 to program my Raspberry Pi 2, should I wish.

-- 
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

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#9350

On 06/08/15 08:43, David Taylor wrote:
> I'm not expecting to pay any more for Windows-10 than I already have -
> nothing.  The upgrades I've already done have required no extra
> hardware, if a PC can run Win-7 or Win-8 it likely has the hardware
> capability to run Win-10 (1 GHz processor, 1 GB memory....).
> 
> Whilst I run both Linux and Windows, as I have to run a number of
> Windows programs Linux is not universally suitable for me.  And I can
> use Windows-10 to program my Raspberry Pi 2, should I wish.

I doff my hat to you for your excellent software for Windows, but it's
no longer a platform for me: too many weaknesses and liabilities. (And
I've rediscovered the fun of tinkering, with things like bash, awk an
gnuplot.) I'm sure that if anyone can do anything useful with Win-10 in
RPi2, you can, but it seems to me like a waste of good hardware.

The one Windows program I still use works well enough under Wine, dates
back to pre-Linux MS-DOS days, and its author doesn't much like Windows
either. :)

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#9353

David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> Whilst I run both Linux and Windows, as I have to run a number of 
> Windows programs Linux is not universally suitable for me.  And I can 
> use Windows-10 to program my Raspberry Pi 2, should I wish.

But then you cannot run those Windows programs on it!

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#9354

On 06/08/15 08:43, David Taylor wrote:
> On 06/08/2015 07:48, Hils wrote:
>> On 06/08/15 00:58, Rob Morley wrote:
>>> Linux hardware detection and driver installation has been a lot better
>>> in the last two or three years.   At least that's how it seems to me,
>>> mostly using *buntu and other Debian based distros.
>>
>> My last Debian install was smoother and faster than any Windoze install
>> I've ever done. Debian 7 on a laptop (now six and half years old) is far
>> and away the best computer system I've ever had. Soon I'll give it a new
>> 2TB HDD and install Debian 8, which will bring it as up to date as it
>> needs to be for another year or two, while Windoze users shell out
>> what--1000EUR?--on new hardware to feed Micro$oft's latest tumour, and
>> keep the spooks and malware breeders distracted.
>>
>> Living with GNU/Linux is good.
>
> I'm not expecting to pay any more for Windows-10 than I already have -
> nothing.  The upgrades I've already done have required no extra
> hardware, if a PC can run Win-7 or Win-8 it likely has the hardware
> capability to run Win-10 (1 GHz processor, 1 GB memory....).
>
> Whilst I run both Linux and Windows, as I have to run a number of
> Windows programs Linux is not universally suitable for me.  And I can
> use Windows-10 to program my Raspberry Pi 2, should I wish.
>

I may adopt Win 10, I rarely use Windows, and only then for some legacy 
programs I need to run from time to time. My OS of choice is Linux, a 
mix of Ubuntu and Mint, although I need to use Sci Linux for as well. I 
also have a Mac and therefore use MacOS, which I quite like. Ditto some 
IOS devices but I'd not say either was my OS of choice. I also tinker 
with R Pi's, again Linux.

I'd say I was very much pro-Linux but also a realist, it has some 
issues, like any OS. One of these is, of course, lack of driver support. 
The welcome post by mm0fmf is refreshing news. Of course, I appreciate 
the lack of driver support is more to do with the HW manufacturer BUT it 
is perceived as an OS issue, and that is what counts when it comes to 
adoption.

I'm not anti-Windows, I certainly prefer Linux to Windows by a 
considerable margin, but that doesn't mean I must be anti-Windows or 
believe the claptrap which the conspiracy theorists pour out.
If anything, their brand of support for Linux is rather like the ISS 
brand of Islam, it isn't doing the cause of Islam any favours.

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#9355

On 06/08/15 10:58, Brian Reay wrote:
> I'm not anti-Windows, I certainly prefer Linux to Windows by a 
> considerable margin, but that doesn't mean I must be anti-Windows or 
> believe the claptrap which the conspiracy theorists pour out. If
> anything, their brand of support for Linux is rather like the ISS 
> brand of Islam, it isn't doing the cause of Islam any favours.

There's no "conspiracy theory": Microsoft's success is due more to
marketing, bribery and bullying than to quality, and the governments of
both he US and UK are clear in their desire to spy on law-abiding
citizens. M$ software is closed-source and self-evidently bloated and
hardware-hungry, and they themselves admit harvesting personal data and
colluding with governments by providing backdoors.

It is Micro$oft which has brought the computer industry into disrepute.

http://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html

http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Microsoft_and_the_NSA

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data

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#9356

On 06/08/15 14:55, Hils wrote:
> It is Micro$oft which has brought the computer industry into disrepute.

Nah. IBM was first. Microsoft just followed along..


-- 
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in 
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in 
someone else's pocket.

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#9357

On 06/08/2015 19:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 06/08/15 14:55, Hils wrote:
>> It is Micro$oft which has brought the computer industry into disrepute.
>
> Nah. IBM was first. Microsoft just followed along..
>
>
Indeed. Far too many noobs don't know who the real enemy is. ;-)

I'm convinced that Brother Hils isn't a real person but a bot put 
together by some AI undergrads to see if they can produce a Conspiracy 
Eliza. Either that or the former script writer from Radio Albania in the 
70s has found a new job.

Anyway, he neatly typifies the Windows Hater who hasn't noticed the 
seismic changes occurring since MonkeyBoy left MS.

802.11ac router reflashed with no pain whatsoever.

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#9360

On 06/08/15 19:46, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 06/08/2015 19:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 06/08/15 14:55, Hils wrote:
>>> It is Micro$oft which has brought the computer industry into disrepute.
>>
>> Nah. IBM was first. Microsoft just followed along..
>>
> Indeed. Far too many noobs don't know who the real enemy is. ;-)

Microsoft have picked up IBM's ball and run amok with it. Microsoft are
the real cyber terrorists.

> I'm convinced that Brother Hils isn't a real person but a bot put
> together by some AI undergrads to see if they can produce a Conspiracy
> Eliza. Either that or the former script writer from Radio Albania in the
> 70s has found a new job.

What a sheltered life you have led, but that is what bourgeois education
and propaganda does to people.

> Anyway, he neatly typifies the Windows Hater who hasn't noticed the
> seismic changes occurring since MonkeyBoy left MS.

LOL. I neither want nor need to pay Microsoft [*] for
already-obsolescent, bloated, backdoored spyware, and I'm a "hater"?

[*] Or Windoze code monkeys. :-)

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#9365

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 19:46:08 +0100, mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com>
wrote:

>On 06/08/2015 19:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 06/08/15 14:55, Hils wrote:
>>> It is Micro$oft which has brought the computer industry into disrepute.
>>
>> Nah. IBM was first. Microsoft just followed along..
>>
>>
>Indeed. Far too many noobs don't know who the real enemy is. ;-)
>
>I'm convinced that Brother Hils isn't a real person but a bot put 
>together by some AI undergrads to see if they can produce a Conspiracy 
>Eliza. Either that or the former script writer from Radio Albania in the 
>70s has found a new job.
>
>Anyway, he neatly typifies the Windows Hater who hasn't noticed the 
>seismic changes occurring since MonkeyBoy left MS.
>
>802.11ac router reflashed with no pain whatsoever.

This is Radio Tirana, broadcasting from the People's republic of
              ^^^^^^
 Albania.

-- 

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

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#9371

On 07/08/2015 00:22, Graham. wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 19:46:08 +0100, mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 06/08/2015 19:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 06/08/15 14:55, Hils wrote:
>>>> It is Micro$oft which has brought the computer industry into disrepute.
>>>
>>> Nah. IBM was first. Microsoft just followed along..
>>>
>>>
>> Indeed. Far too many noobs don't know who the real enemy is. ;-)
>>
>> I'm convinced that Brother Hils isn't a real person but a bot put
>> together by some AI undergrads to see if they can produce a Conspiracy
>> Eliza. Either that or the former script writer from Radio Albania in the
>> 70s has found a new job.
>>
>> Anyway, he neatly typifies the Windows Hater who hasn't noticed the
>> seismic changes occurring since MonkeyBoy left MS.
>>
>> 802.11ac router reflashed with no pain whatsoever.
>
> This is Radio Tirana, broadcasting from the People's republic of
>                ^^^^^^
>   Albania.
>
Indeed and I offer many apologies for giving the wrong name.

I have a Radio Tirana QSL card, received in 1974, somewhere in the loft. 
The postman didn't get to too many letters to deliver from Albania and 
rather than just pushing it through the letterbox rang the bell and 
wanted to know what it was. Cheeky bugger. My mother was concerned that 
her pre-teenage son was writing to such places as Albania during the 
height of the cold war. If the postman was intrigued what on Earth would 
the "feds" think! She hit the roof when stuff from Peking arrived :-)

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#9372

On 2015-08-07, mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> wrote:

> She hit the roof when stuff from Peking arrived :-)

LOL!....

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#9352

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 00:58:12 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

> Linux hardware detection and driver installation has been a lot better
> in the last two or three years.   At least that's how it seems to me,
> mostly using *buntu and other Debian based distros.
>
Same goes for Fedora. For years its main bugbear has been the sheer pain 
of upgrading to the next version on its 6 monthly release cycle. That 
involved:
(a) burn a DVD  
(b) do a cold install from the DVD 
(c) run a massive "yum update"
(d) pull in all the nonstandard packages you need
(e) get your various services up and running 

IOW Fedora was almost as much a pain to upgrade as Windows, except that 
you only had to reboot once.

Since Fedora 20 most of that's gone: you simply run the FedUp utility, 
which does an in-situ, and quite lengthy, online upgrade to the new 
version. This is followed by a reboot and 'dnf upgrade', which takes a 
bit longer than my usual weekly run, and more or less everything is up 
and happy once again.
 
yum, the old RH package installer, has always been pretty good (some 
people have said its package dependency resolution is better then apt) 
and its recent replacement, dnf, seems to be very much the same but a bit 
faster and slicker.  


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#9351

I just had to cross post this to where there's a 'windows just works' 
thread running..


On 05/08/15 21:47, mm0fmf wrote:
> There's plenty of Windows haters in this group so here is something just
> for them.
>
> Normally Windows is the OS with all the latest support for the devices
> and Linux is the OS that has issues. Sometimes due to manufacturers who
> wont release the necessary info to the open source world. (Broadcom!)
>
> So... I bought a new AC1200 802.11ac router yesterday. Works like a
> dream and I'll OpenWrt it this weekend if I get time. My company laptop
> has 802.11ac Wifi and I get 867Mbps on 5GHz and 300Mbps on 2.4GHz. My
> own laptop only has an old 802.11n Wifi adapter that connects at 72Mbps
> on 2.4GHz. Time to get a better mini PCIe Wifi card.
>
> Where I work we have about 12000 employees and so 12000 Windows laptops
> exist. We run them for 3 years till the warranty expires then they get
> given to charities. In my office we tend keep them for an extra 18months
> used to mimic customer software environments, say Japanese Win7 plus our
> software or Ubuntu rather than RedHat. Anyway they all have Wifi so I
> thought I'd pull a few cards and try them at home, find our which one
> works best and get one of those from eBay for a few pounds.
>
> 1st up Intel Advance 6200-AGN, dual band, 802.11n 300/300Mbps. Popped it
> into my laptop, boot Mint 13xcfe, Wifi works, connect on 5GHz, 150Mbps
> best speed, good throughput. Onto 2.4GHz and 300Mbps everytime and
> really good throughput. The 5GHz performance was not so good but I was
> hoping the driver will have moved on when I get round to upgrading to
> Mint17. Time to try Windows. Boot same PC into Win7 64bit and there's no
> Wifi but a new network adapter was found wanting drivers. No driver
> found using Windows Update, time for Intel's website. I downloaded the
> driver scanner (which was a big bloaty piece of software) and it ran
> with all sorts of animated nonsense and identified a newer motherboard
> driver and the Wifi driver. Another 28MB and 92MB download later (92MB
> for a Wifi driver !!!!!) and I ran the installer, more animations and
> several minutes later all done.
>
> No Wifi. Device Manager helpfully reported "This device cannot start.
> (Code 10)". Power off, reboot. No Wifi. 2hours of fannying about later,
> multiple Google searches and the bloody Wifi still doesn't work on
> Windows. There's repeated tales of woe on the net. The mad thing is the
> card originally came in a laptop running Win7 64bit but I'm buggered if
> I can find a set of drivers that will work.
>
> This is back to front. Normally it's Windows that just works. With
> Linux, especially on a laptop, you expect to have a bit of mucking about
> needed to get things like laptop special keys to work (LCD brightness
> etc.) or Wifi needing some extra firmware or maybe a command line option
> so graphics works. I've been running Windows since before Win 3.0 and
> Linux since 1998 on SPARC, PA-Risc, MIPS, Arc, ARM, all Intel/AMD x86s,
> Hitachi SH3/SH4 and never have I had a case where the drivers/hardware
> works on Linux but not on Windows.
>
> This can only mean that Linux on the desktop has finally arrived and I
> didn't notice! It also taught me it's probably best to avoid Intel Wifi
> hardware and software irrespective of the OS.
>


-- 
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in 
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in 
someone else's pocket.

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#9367

On 05/08/2015 21:47, mm0fmf wrote:
> So... I bought a new AC1200 802.11ac router yesterday.

[Snip]

> 1st up Intel Advance 6200-AGN, dual band, 802.11n 300/300Mbps. Popped it
> into my laptop, boot Mint 13xcfe, Wifi works, connect on 5GHz, 150Mbps
> best speed, good throughput. Onto 2.4GHz and 300Mbps everytime and
> really good throughput.

You are wasting your ac wireless with that, the Intel 7260.HMWWBR ac 
card is only about £20.

---druck

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#9375

On 2015-08-05 at 17:47 ADT, mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> wrote:

> This is back to front. Normally it's Windows that just works.
I think you are confusing "works" with "has drivers for all the
hardware"

:-)

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#9378

Jim Diamond <Jim.Diamond@deletethis.AcadiaU.ca> wrote:
> On 2015-08-05 at 17:47 ADT, mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>> This is back to front. Normally it's Windows that just works.
> I think you are confusing "works" with "has drivers for all the
> hardware"

But that is not the case at all...  with Windows it is more often possible
to FIND drivers for exotic hardware, even in cases where a Linux driver
cannot be found or is of such abysmal quality that you would not want
to have it on your system (or cannot, because it does not compile).

However, when comparing the collection of drivers included on the
installation media, so that a freshly installed system works without
having to Google for drivers and download and install them one by one
until all the yellow exclamation marks (except one) are gone, Linux
wins hands down!  And that has been the case for many years.

In fact, with Windows it is normal that you will have to hunt down
drivers after install but it is possible, with Linux it usually works
out of the box and if not it is a sign of serious trouble ahead.
(because installing separate drivers into the system is usually not
going to work well, except for some special cases like video card drivers)

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#9381

On 08/08/15 09:13, Rob wrote:
> Jim Diamond <Jim.Diamond@deletethis.AcadiaU.ca> wrote:
>> On 2015-08-05 at 17:47 ADT, mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This is back to front. Normally it's Windows that just works.
>> I think you are confusing "works" with "has drivers for all the
>> hardware"
>
> But that is not the case at all...  with Windows it is more often possible
> to FIND drivers for exotic hardware, even in cases where a Linux driver
> cannot be found or is of such abysmal quality that you would not want
> to have it on your system (or cannot, because it does not compile).
>
> However, when comparing the collection of drivers included on the
> installation media, so that a freshly installed system works without
> having to Google for drivers and download and install them one by one
> until all the yellow exclamation marks (except one) are gone, Linux
> wins hands down!  And that has been the case for many years.
>
> In fact, with Windows it is normal that you will have to hunt down
> drivers after install but it is possible, with Linux it usually works
> out of the box and if not it is a sign of serious trouble ahead.
> (because installing separate drivers into the system is usually not
> going to work well, except for some special cases like video card drivers)
>
Not quite.

The legal status of some drivers means they cannot be 'provided in the 
installation disk' as they don't fall under the gnu public license terms 
but have to be 'pointed to at a separate repository' .

There is nothing wrong with them, apart from their proprietary nature.


-- 
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in 
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in 
someone else's pocket.

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