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Groups > comp.sys.mac.vintage > #1690 > unrolled thread

Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon

Started byvintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole)
First post2026-06-19 18:42 +0100
Last post2026-06-27 04:12 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 86 — 15 participants

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Contents

  Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-19 18:42 +0100
    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon JJenssen <joemajen@arcor.de> - 2026-06-20 12:30 +0200
      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-20 13:10 +0100
        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-20 14:42 +0100
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon JJenssen <joemajen@arcor.de> - 2026-06-21 07:51 +0200
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-21 09:35 +0200
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-21 10:29 +0100
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 18:10 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-22 10:16 +1200
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-22 08:13 +0200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-22 10:26 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 14:03 +0000
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-22 17:25 +0100
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 20:51 +0000
                          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-23 04:22 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-22 17:07 +0000
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 20:47 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-23 10:49 +1200
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 01:30 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-24 12:07 +0200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 11:41 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-24 18:42 +0000
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-24 19:42 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 13:25 -0700
                          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:39 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 21:53 +0100
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-25 01:30 +0000
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 08:29 -0700
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 16:36 +0100
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-24 17:33 +0000
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:13 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-25 11:26 +0200
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 23:21 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:55 +0200
                          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:41 +0100
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-24 21:38 +0000
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:12 +0000
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-21 14:21 +0100
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-21 17:28 +0100
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-21 18:56 +0200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-21 17:38 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 23:36 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 18:15 +0000
    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 01:24 +0000
      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-24 17:35 +1200
        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-24 07:45 +0200
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 11:36 +0100
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 09:35 +1200
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:17 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:24 +1200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 10:19 +0100
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-26 01:59 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:50 +0000
                Retroconning closed-source proprietary software, and wiping the rest (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 07:12 +0100
                  Re: Retroconning closed-source proprietary software, and wiping the rest (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:32 +1200
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:27 +1200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 06:50 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 19:41 +1200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-25 11:37 +0200
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 18:19 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:01 +0100
              """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 06:55 +0100
                Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:34 +1200
                  Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-26 01:57 +0000
                    Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-26 18:23 +1200
                      Re: """Standard""" software Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 09:37 +0100
                        Re: """Standard""" software Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 11:00 +1200
                    Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-26 18:03 +0000
                      Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 12:23 -0700
                        Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 11:09 +1200
                      Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 00:10 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-25 15:44 +0000
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 08:01 -0700
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 16:34 +0100
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-25 15:49 +0000
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-24 18:16 +0000
      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-06-24 17:15 +0200
        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:14 +0000
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-06-25 18:32 +0200
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 23:22 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-06-25 23:40 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 09:09 +0100
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-26 18:03 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-27 00:26 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 15:52 +1200
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-27 04:12 +0000

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#1765

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-26 10:01 +0100
Message-ID<111lf5b$c7hh$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1751
On 2026-06-25, Carlos E. R. wrote:

[...]

> Unix with a big layer on top that is not Unix.
>
> Is the graphic layer Unix? Do those companies that sell software for
> macOS expect that particular graphical layer, or do they run directly
> on the Unix beneath?

[ Ariana Richards / Lex enters the room ]

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#1741 — """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-25 06:55 +0100
Subject"""Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<111ifsc$3hha9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1732
On 2026-06-24, Your Name wrote:

> On 2026-06-24 10:36:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher said:
>> On 24/06/2026 06:45, Marc Haber wrote:
>>>> Technically, you've got that almost-backwards.
>>>>
>>>> Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin
>>>> derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system.
>>>> Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while
>>>> Linux is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux
>>>> cannot.  
>>>
>>> Noone cares about the brand any more.
>>
>> Exactly,. we have and operating system that works pretty well
>> available for free across many hardware platforms. With a cute
>> little mascot.
>>
>> Let's call it the Penguin Operating System (POS) and have done with it :-)
>
> "PoS" is definitely he correct term for the numerous different Linux
> varities. None of the standard software runs on it for a start - no
> Adobe, no Microsoft, etc., so if you need to use any of those to be
> fully compatible ("alternatives" are never fully compatible, despite
> what they like to claim), then you need to use a proper operating
> system: MacOS X.

And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"? The utilities
available in UNIX MacOS under GNU/Linux and on BSDs are more "standard
software"[1] than whatever commercial closed-source product Microsoft
comes up with. As for Adobe, if anything they have Postscript and PDF,
but I don't think they've managed to make usable PDF software for UNIX
systems (a heavy acroread certainly won't count as such), and Postscript
has had at least Ghostscript for ages. And, if they did manage to make
something usable, it'd probably be closed-source and with a bunch of
features locked without a paid license.

Were it still in wider use, Shockwave Flash, which they acquired at some
point, could perhaps be better supported by improving Gnash and
Lightspark, as Adobe's own software for it wasn't - IIRC - known for its
quality and performance. Or was the quality part more rumour than
reality?


[1] cf. ISO 9945:2009 / IEEE 1003.1:2008 Vol 1 §3.361, and the whole of
    Vol 3.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#1746 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2026-06-25 18:34 +1200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<111ii4p$3ik55$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1741
On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
> On 2026-06-24, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2026-06-24 10:36:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher said:
>>> On 24/06/2026 06:45, Marc Haber wrote:
>>>>> Technically, you've got that almost-backwards.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin
>>>>> derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system.
>>>>> Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while
>>>>> Linux is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux
>>>>> cannot.
>>>> 
>>>> Noone cares about the brand any more.
>>> 
>>> Exactly,. we have and operating system that works pretty well available 
>>> for free across many hardware platforms. With a cute little mascot.
>>> 
>>> Let's call it the Penguin Operating System (POS) and have done with it :-)
>> 
>> "PoS" is definitely he correct term for the numerous different Linux 
>> varities. None of the standard software runs on it for a start - no 
>> Adobe, no Microsoft, etc., so if you need to use any of those to be 
>> fully compatible ("alternatives" are never fully compatible, despite 
>> what they like to claim), then you need to use a proper operating 
>> system: MacOS X.
> 
> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
<snip>

Most of the business world did years ago ... believe me, I wish it wasn't so!


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#1759 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-06-26 01:57 +0000
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<111km9n$760s$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1746
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:

> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>
>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
> <snip>
>
> Most of the business world did years ago ...

Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its
operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by
Linux?

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#1761 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2026-06-26 18:23 +1200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<111l5s4$atk9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1759
On 2026-06-26 01:57:11 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said:

> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>> 
>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>> <snip>
>> 
>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
> 
> Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its
> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by
> Linux?

I think you need to get out into the real world more often, rather than 
sitting in your own deluisonal little room by yourself.  :-\

Another idiot added to the killfile.

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#1763 — Re: """Standard""" software

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-26 09:37 +0100
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software
Message-ID<111ldon$c7hh$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1761
On 2026-06-26, Your Name wrote:

> On 2026-06-26 01:57:11 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>
>>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>>
>>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
>>
>> Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its
>> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by
>> Linux?
>
> I think you need to get out into the real world more often, rather
> than sitting in your own deluisonal little room by yourself.  :-\
>
> Another idiot added to the killfile.

I think relativism from your part would improve matters too. It's not
even a de facto standard the way you stated it, the business world is
not synonymous with reality, and it may also have parts which blur the
distinction between reality and beliefs (where corporate decisionmakers
put money in what they think reality is, out of some belief).

Just for one example: the tech world pretty much has as a sort of
guideline, if not "standard", that you don't top-post and you don't
destroy threading (by properly maintaining and extending References and
In-Reply-To), and that you clearly denote quoted material with a quoting
level indicator on the left side. But some on the corporate world think
differently, and at least one company (MICROS~1) has tried to push hard
their own incompatible and problematic approach to e-mail, possibly
arising out of some metaphor with paper documents flowing in an
office. That Microsoft chose to go with that doesn't make it a standard,
even though the disease (I'd avoid this wording, except this is about
top-posting and lack of quoting levels and mangling references, so I'll
go with "disease") spreads because of them.

Heck, the tech world even has a solution to make plain text e-mails
reflowable.

The business world also includes companies who know better than using
Microsoft products and services (again, I'd use another wording, but
Microsoft has actively done so much damage...)


What follows is in case somebody thinks I'm exaggerating about
Microsoft, and regards the above as, I don't know, "fanboyism"...; Also,
in case somebody needs to be aware of these things:

Bill Gates wants to introduce hardware incompatibilities using ACPI:
<http://web.archive.org/web/1if_/http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03020.pdf>

Microsoft's FUD:
<https://enwp.org/Halloween_papers#List_of_documents>

So you want to do e-mail with Microsoft? If your server doesn't send a
lot of e-mail, it might get blocked (yes, you read that right, you may
have to spam more, not less).

<news://news.gmane.io/YyGtAsSxjpA0Ky4+@lazarescu.org>
<http://web.archive.org/web/20210225102644/https://guides.downstate.edu/c.php?g=654922&p=4870487>

Some messages will be sent to Quarantine, which users may have not heard
about. And I'm not even sure SmartScreen won't possibly just drop
messages completely without sending to Quarantine.

<http://web.archive.org/web/20210225102644/https://guides.downstate.edu/c.php?g=654922&p=4870487>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/357214/emails-to-microsoft-365-customers-are-silently-dro>
<https://www.nerd-quickies.net/2020/10/20/microsoft-silently-dropping-emails-a-sad-but-true-story/>

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#1770 — Re: """Standard""" software

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2026-06-27 11:00 +1200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software
Message-ID<111n0a0$sr2s$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1763
On 2026-06-26 08:37:41 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
> On 2026-06-26, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2026-06-26 01:57:11 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said:
>>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>>> 
>>>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>>>> <snip>
>>>> 
>>>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
>>> 
>>> Is this the same "business world" that has largely moved its operations 
>>> into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by Linux?
>> 
>> I think you need to get out into the real world more often, rather than 
>> sitting in your own deluisonal little room by yourself.  :-\
>> 
>> Another idiot added to the killfile.
> 
> I think relativism from your part would improve matters too. It's not 
> even a de facto standard the way you stated it,

The majority of businesses in the world use Microsloth Windoze (about 
60%-66%*) and Microsloth Ofiice (about 82% in 2017*)... they *are* 
basically the standard and have been for decades now. It may be slowly 
beginning to change.

* That figure is for those using the lastest versions Windowze 10 and 11,
  so doesn't include all those still using older versions.

* A very quick search doesn't turn up more up-to-date figures for Microsloth
  Office, only for the online Office 365 version, which doesn't include
  offline users. In terms of just online office apps, Google currently has
  the most users.



> the business world is not synonymous with reality, and it may also have 
> parts which blur the distinction between reality and beliefs (where 
> corporate decisionmakers put money in what they think reality is, out 
> of some belief).
> 
> Just for one example: the tech world pretty much has as a sort of 
> guideline, if not "standard", that you don't top-post and you don't 
> destroy threading (by properly maintaining and extending References and 
> In-Reply-To), and that you clearly denote quoted material with a 
> quoting level indicator on the left side. But some on the corporate 
> world think differently, and at least one company (MICROS~1) has tried 
> to push hard their own incompatible and problematic approach to e-mail, 
> possibly arising out of some metaphor with paper documents flowing in 
> an office. That Microsoft chose to go with that doesn't make it a 
> standard, even though the disease (I'd avoid this wording, except this 
> is about top-posting and lack of quoting levels and mangling 
> references, so I'll go with "disease") spreads because of them.

Microsoloth always tries to push their own stupid ideas as the tech 
standard. Some "succeed" simply due to the scale of their user base, 
others fail miserbaly.

Probably the best known example was Microsloth Exploiter that pushed 
its own way of doing things to the point that website makers had to use 
a variety of techniques try to accomodate two different options, 
depending on which browser you were using. Those that simply went with 
Exploiter's way caused compatibility issues for people using other web 
browsers. This was usually most evident with government websites where 
they never bothered to test things on any other browser or OS.

In fact, one charity company I worked for had to file monthly reports 
to their main funder via a website system. They used Apple computers 
and none of the web browsers would work properly with the website 
report system (including Mac Exploiter). The only option was for them 
to get a Windoze PC with Exploiter solely to do the monthly reports.

Such issues do still come up from time to time, especially with 
government websites, but mainly if you're still using older versions of 
web broswers.


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#1767 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-06-26 18:03 +0000
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<A9z%R.9638$f6E1.1190@fx14.iad>
In reply to#1759
On 2026-06-26, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>
>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>
>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>> <snip>
>>
>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
>
> Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its
> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated
> by Linux?

Shhhhh... don't say that too loudly.  Bill might not like it.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  They don't understand Microsoft
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  has stolen their car and parked
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  a taxi in their driveway.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Mayayana

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#1769 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-06-26 12:23 -0700
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<20260626122353.00005191@gmail.com>
In reply to#1767
On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 18:03:12 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> > Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its
> > operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated
> > by Linux?  
> 
> Shhhhh... don't say that too loudly.  Bill might not like it.

Are you kidding? M$ makes *bank* on Office 365, whether it's running as
a bloated Web app or a bloated native executable. *Herds* of CEOs who
validate themselves by cutting checks for stuff they'll never have to
use have been inflicting this on their workers for like a decade now.
Satya could probably not give less of a shit whether he's getting paid
$xxx/mo. a head for that on Chromium/Linux or Edge/Win11.

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#1771 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2026-06-27 11:09 +1200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<111n0r6$svm3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1769
On 2026-06-26 19:23:53 +0000, John Ames said:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 18:03:12 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is this the same "business world" that has largely moved its
>>> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated
>>> by Linux?
>> 
>> Shhhhh... don't say that too loudly.  Bill might not like it.
> 
> Are you kidding? M$ makes *bank* on Office 365, whether it's running as 
> a bloated Web app or a bloated native executable. *Herds* of CEOs who 
> validate themselves by cutting checks for stuff they'll never have to 
> use have been inflicting this on their workers for like a decade now.

Microsloth Windoze and Orifice have unfortunately been basically 
business standards for multiple decades now. Word was first released in 
1983 and "Office" (with Excel, etc.) in 1989.

Even if people don't use Orifice themselves, almost every document you 
come across (other than PDFs) is in .doc format because that gives the 
widest potential compatibility ... as long as it's a simple document. 
If it's a complex document, then compatibility tends to go out the 
window. (For example, TextEdit and QuickLook on the Mac can read and 
write .doc / .docx format files, but even mildly complicated formatting 
will end up looking a mess, especially in QuickLook.)



> Satya could probably not give less of a shit whether he's getting paid 
> $xxx/mo. a head for that on Chromium/Linux or Edge/Win11.

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#1773 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-06-27 00:10 +0000
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<111n4ee$trog$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1767
On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 18:03:12 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-06-26, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>
>>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>
>>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
>>
>> Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its
>> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated
>> by Linux?
>
> Shhhhh... don't say that too loudly.  Bill might not like it.

Regardless of what BillG might think, Microsoft freely admit that
these days. Even their own cloud service is predominantly Linux-based,
and they see no shame in admitting it.

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#1752

Fromscott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter)
Date2026-06-25 15:44 +0000
Message-ID<w1c%R.41187$81a2.153@fx17.iad>
In reply to#1732
In article <111hii9$3b57f$1@dont-email.me>,
Your Name  <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>"PoS" is definitely he correct term for the numerous different Linux 
>varities. None of the standard software runs on it for a start - no 
>Adobe, no Microsoft, etc.

That could be (and probably should be) viewed as a feature, not a bug. :)

-- 
  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/         Top-posting!
 \_^_/                            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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#1721

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-06-24 08:01 -0700
Message-ID<20260624080106.00005d5f@gmail.com>
In reply to#1717
On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 07:45:57 +0200
Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> wrote:

> > > Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
> > > is that Apple runs on its machines.  
> >
> > Technically, you've got that almost-backwards.
> >
> > Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin 
> > derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system. 
> > Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while 
> > Linux is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux 
> > cannot.  :-p  
> 
> Noone cares about the brand any more.

Lawrence clearly does.

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#1724

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-24 16:34 +0100
Message-ID<111gtdn$348m3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1721
On 24/06/2026 16:01, John Ames wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 07:45:57 +0200
> Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> wrote:
> 
>>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>>>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
>>>
>>> Technically, you've got that almost-backwards.
>>>
>>> Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin
>>> derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system.
>>> Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while
>>> Linux is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux
>>> cannot.  :-p
>>
>> Noone cares about the brand any more.
> 
> Lawrence clearly does.
> 
He should have said 'nobody' cares about the brand, thereby including 
Lawrence
-- 
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

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#1753

Fromscott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter)
Date2026-06-25 15:49 +0000
Message-ID<a6c%R.41188$81a2.17637@fx17.iad>
In reply to#1721
In article <20260624080106.00005d5f@gmail.com>,
John Ames  <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
>Lawrence clearly does.

Placing this in ~/News/KILL will improve your Usenet experience:

/ldo@nz.invalid/f:j

HTH. :)

-- 
  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/         Top-posting!
 \_^_/                            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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#1727

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-06-24 18:16 +0000
Message-ID<na2l7fFop6qU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#1717
On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 07:45:57 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>On 2026-06-24 01:24:17 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said:
>>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange quirls
>>>> to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with ...
>>> 
>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it is
>>> that Apple runs on its machines.
>>
>>Technically, you've got that almost-backwards.
>>
>>Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin
>>derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system.
>>Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while Linux
>>is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux cannot. 
>>:-p
> 
> Noone cares about the brand any more.

Having used AIX, which meets the Single Unix Specification for UNIX 03 I'm 
not sure being a 'true UNIX' is a recommendation.

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#1722

FromJohn Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com>
Date2026-06-24 17:15 +0200
Message-ID<111gsbe$33sq2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1714
On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote:
> 
>> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange quirls
>> to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with ...
> 
> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it is
> that Apple runs on its machines.

In what way?

-- 
Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/

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#1736

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-06-25 01:14 +0000
Message-ID<111hve8$3e43k$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1722
On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote:
>>
>>> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange
>>> quirls to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with
>>> ...
>>
>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
>
> In what way?

One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation of
the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the window.

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#1754

FromJohn Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com>
Date2026-06-25 18:32 +0200
Message-ID<111jl6p$3trjm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1736
On 25/06/2026 03:14, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
> 
>> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange
>>>> quirls to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
>>
>> In what way?
> 
> One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation of
> the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the window.

How?

-- 
Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/

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#1757

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-06-25 23:22 +0000
Message-ID<111kd7r$4v7h$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1754
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:32:08 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

> On 25/06/2026 03:14, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
>>
>>> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>>>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
>>>
>>> In what way?
>>
>> One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation
>> of the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the
>> window.
>
> How?

By integrating its GUI tightly into its OS kernel.

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