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Groups > comp.sys.mac.vintage > #1690 > unrolled thread
| Started by | vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-06-19 18:42 +0100 |
| Last post | 2026-06-27 04:12 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 86 — 15 participants |
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Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-19 18:42 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon JJenssen <joemajen@arcor.de> - 2026-06-20 12:30 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-20 13:10 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-20 14:42 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon JJenssen <joemajen@arcor.de> - 2026-06-21 07:51 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-21 09:35 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-21 10:29 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 18:10 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-22 10:16 +1200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-22 08:13 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-22 10:26 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 14:03 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-22 17:25 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 20:51 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-23 04:22 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-22 17:07 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 20:47 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-23 10:49 +1200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 01:30 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-24 12:07 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 11:41 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-24 18:42 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-24 19:42 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 13:25 -0700
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:39 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 21:53 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-25 01:30 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 08:29 -0700
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 16:36 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-24 17:33 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:13 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-25 11:26 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 23:21 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:55 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:41 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-24 21:38 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:12 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-21 14:21 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-21 17:28 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-21 18:56 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-21 17:38 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 23:36 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 18:15 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 01:24 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-24 17:35 +1200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-24 07:45 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 11:36 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 09:35 +1200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:17 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:24 +1200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 10:19 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-26 01:59 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:50 +0000
Retroconning closed-source proprietary software, and wiping the rest (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 07:12 +0100
Re: Retroconning closed-source proprietary software, and wiping the rest (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:32 +1200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:27 +1200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 06:50 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 19:41 +1200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-25 11:37 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 18:19 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:01 +0100
"""Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 06:55 +0100
Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:34 +1200
Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-26 01:57 +0000
Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-26 18:23 +1200
Re: """Standard""" software Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 09:37 +0100
Re: """Standard""" software Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 11:00 +1200
Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-26 18:03 +0000
Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 12:23 -0700
Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 11:09 +1200
Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 00:10 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-25 15:44 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 08:01 -0700
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 16:34 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-25 15:49 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-24 18:16 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-06-24 17:15 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:14 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-06-25 18:32 +0200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 23:22 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-06-25 23:40 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 09:09 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-26 18:03 +0000
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-27 00:26 +0100
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 15:52 +1200
Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-27 04:12 +0000
Page 4 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 Next page →
| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-26 10:01 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <111lf5b$c7hh$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1751 |
On 2026-06-25, Carlos E. R. wrote: [...] > Unix with a big layer on top that is not Unix. > > Is the graphic layer Unix? Do those companies that sell software for > macOS expect that particular graphical layer, or do they run directly > on the Unix beneath? [ Ariana Richards / Lex enters the room ] -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-25 06:55 +0100 |
| Subject | """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) |
| Message-ID | <111ifsc$3hha9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1732 |
On 2026-06-24, Your Name wrote:
> On 2026-06-24 10:36:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher said:
>> On 24/06/2026 06:45, Marc Haber wrote:
>>>> Technically, you've got that almost-backwards.
>>>>
>>>> Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin
>>>> derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system.
>>>> Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while
>>>> Linux is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux
>>>> cannot.
>>>
>>> Noone cares about the brand any more.
>>
>> Exactly,. we have and operating system that works pretty well
>> available for free across many hardware platforms. With a cute
>> little mascot.
>>
>> Let's call it the Penguin Operating System (POS) and have done with it :-)
>
> "PoS" is definitely he correct term for the numerous different Linux
> varities. None of the standard software runs on it for a start - no
> Adobe, no Microsoft, etc., so if you need to use any of those to be
> fully compatible ("alternatives" are never fully compatible, despite
> what they like to claim), then you need to use a proper operating
> system: MacOS X.
And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"? The utilities
available in UNIX MacOS under GNU/Linux and on BSDs are more "standard
software"[1] than whatever commercial closed-source product Microsoft
comes up with. As for Adobe, if anything they have Postscript and PDF,
but I don't think they've managed to make usable PDF software for UNIX
systems (a heavy acroread certainly won't count as such), and Postscript
has had at least Ghostscript for ages. And, if they did manage to make
something usable, it'd probably be closed-source and with a bunch of
features locked without a paid license.
Were it still in wider use, Shockwave Flash, which they acquired at some
point, could perhaps be better supported by improving Gnash and
Lightspark, as Adobe's own software for it wasn't - IIRC - known for its
quality and performance. Or was the quality part more rumour than
reality?
[1] cf. ISO 9945:2009 / IEEE 1003.1:2008 Vol 1 §3.361, and the whole of
Vol 3.
--
Nuno Silva
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-25 18:34 +1200 |
| Subject | Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) |
| Message-ID | <111ii4p$3ik55$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1741 |
On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
> On 2026-06-24, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2026-06-24 10:36:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher said:
>>> On 24/06/2026 06:45, Marc Haber wrote:
>>>>> Technically, you've got that almost-backwards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin
>>>>> derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system.
>>>>> Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while
>>>>> Linux is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux
>>>>> cannot.
>>>>
>>>> Noone cares about the brand any more.
>>>
>>> Exactly,. we have and operating system that works pretty well available
>>> for free across many hardware platforms. With a cute little mascot.
>>>
>>> Let's call it the Penguin Operating System (POS) and have done with it :-)
>>
>> "PoS" is definitely he correct term for the numerous different Linux
>> varities. None of the standard software runs on it for a start - no
>> Adobe, no Microsoft, etc., so if you need to use any of those to be
>> fully compatible ("alternatives" are never fully compatible, despite
>> what they like to claim), then you need to use a proper operating
>> system: MacOS X.
>
> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
<snip>
Most of the business world did years ago ... believe me, I wish it wasn't so!
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-26 01:57 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) |
| Message-ID | <111km9n$760s$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1746 |
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote: > On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said: >> >> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"? > <snip> > > Most of the business world did years ago ... Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by Linux?
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-26 18:23 +1200 |
| Subject | Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) |
| Message-ID | <111l5s4$atk9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1759 |
On 2026-06-26 01:57:11 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said: > On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote: > >> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said: >>> >>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"? >> <snip> >> >> Most of the business world did years ago ... > > Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its > operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by > Linux? I think you need to get out into the real world more often, rather than sitting in your own deluisonal little room by yourself. :-\ Another idiot added to the killfile.
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-26 09:37 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: """Standard""" software |
| Message-ID | <111ldon$c7hh$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1761 |
On 2026-06-26, Your Name wrote: > On 2026-06-26 01:57:11 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said: > >> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote: >> >>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said: >>>> >>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"? >>> <snip> >>> >>> Most of the business world did years ago ... >> >> Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its >> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by >> Linux? > > I think you need to get out into the real world more often, rather > than sitting in your own deluisonal little room by yourself. :-\ > > Another idiot added to the killfile. I think relativism from your part would improve matters too. It's not even a de facto standard the way you stated it, the business world is not synonymous with reality, and it may also have parts which blur the distinction between reality and beliefs (where corporate decisionmakers put money in what they think reality is, out of some belief). Just for one example: the tech world pretty much has as a sort of guideline, if not "standard", that you don't top-post and you don't destroy threading (by properly maintaining and extending References and In-Reply-To), and that you clearly denote quoted material with a quoting level indicator on the left side. But some on the corporate world think differently, and at least one company (MICROS~1) has tried to push hard their own incompatible and problematic approach to e-mail, possibly arising out of some metaphor with paper documents flowing in an office. That Microsoft chose to go with that doesn't make it a standard, even though the disease (I'd avoid this wording, except this is about top-posting and lack of quoting levels and mangling references, so I'll go with "disease") spreads because of them. Heck, the tech world even has a solution to make plain text e-mails reflowable. The business world also includes companies who know better than using Microsoft products and services (again, I'd use another wording, but Microsoft has actively done so much damage...) What follows is in case somebody thinks I'm exaggerating about Microsoft, and regards the above as, I don't know, "fanboyism"...; Also, in case somebody needs to be aware of these things: Bill Gates wants to introduce hardware incompatibilities using ACPI: <http://web.archive.org/web/1if_/http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03020.pdf> Microsoft's FUD: <https://enwp.org/Halloween_papers#List_of_documents> So you want to do e-mail with Microsoft? If your server doesn't send a lot of e-mail, it might get blocked (yes, you read that right, you may have to spam more, not less). <news://news.gmane.io/YyGtAsSxjpA0Ky4+@lazarescu.org> <http://web.archive.org/web/20210225102644/https://guides.downstate.edu/c.php?g=654922&p=4870487> Some messages will be sent to Quarantine, which users may have not heard about. And I'm not even sure SmartScreen won't possibly just drop messages completely without sending to Quarantine. <http://web.archive.org/web/20210225102644/https://guides.downstate.edu/c.php?g=654922&p=4870487> <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/357214/emails-to-microsoft-365-customers-are-silently-dro> <https://www.nerd-quickies.net/2020/10/20/microsoft-silently-dropping-emails-a-sad-but-true-story/> -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-27 11:00 +1200 |
| Subject | Re: """Standard""" software |
| Message-ID | <111n0a0$sr2s$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1763 |
On 2026-06-26 08:37:41 +0000, Nuno Silva said: > On 2026-06-26, Your Name wrote: >> On 2026-06-26 01:57:11 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said: >>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote: >>>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said: >>>>> >>>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"? >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>> Most of the business world did years ago ... >>> >>> Is this the same "business world" that has largely moved its operations >>> into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by Linux? >> >> I think you need to get out into the real world more often, rather than >> sitting in your own deluisonal little room by yourself. :-\ >> >> Another idiot added to the killfile. > > I think relativism from your part would improve matters too. It's not > even a de facto standard the way you stated it, The majority of businesses in the world use Microsloth Windoze (about 60%-66%*) and Microsloth Ofiice (about 82% in 2017*)... they *are* basically the standard and have been for decades now. It may be slowly beginning to change. * That figure is for those using the lastest versions Windowze 10 and 11, so doesn't include all those still using older versions. * A very quick search doesn't turn up more up-to-date figures for Microsloth Office, only for the online Office 365 version, which doesn't include offline users. In terms of just online office apps, Google currently has the most users. > the business world is not synonymous with reality, and it may also have > parts which blur the distinction between reality and beliefs (where > corporate decisionmakers put money in what they think reality is, out > of some belief). > > Just for one example: the tech world pretty much has as a sort of > guideline, if not "standard", that you don't top-post and you don't > destroy threading (by properly maintaining and extending References and > In-Reply-To), and that you clearly denote quoted material with a > quoting level indicator on the left side. But some on the corporate > world think differently, and at least one company (MICROS~1) has tried > to push hard their own incompatible and problematic approach to e-mail, > possibly arising out of some metaphor with paper documents flowing in > an office. That Microsoft chose to go with that doesn't make it a > standard, even though the disease (I'd avoid this wording, except this > is about top-posting and lack of quoting levels and mangling > references, so I'll go with "disease") spreads because of them. Microsoloth always tries to push their own stupid ideas as the tech standard. Some "succeed" simply due to the scale of their user base, others fail miserbaly. Probably the best known example was Microsloth Exploiter that pushed its own way of doing things to the point that website makers had to use a variety of techniques try to accomodate two different options, depending on which browser you were using. Those that simply went with Exploiter's way caused compatibility issues for people using other web browsers. This was usually most evident with government websites where they never bothered to test things on any other browser or OS. In fact, one charity company I worked for had to file monthly reports to their main funder via a website system. They used Apple computers and none of the web browsers would work properly with the website report system (including Mac Exploiter). The only option was for them to get a Windoze PC with Exploiter solely to do the monthly reports. Such issues do still come up from time to time, especially with government websites, but mainly if you're still using older versions of web broswers.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-26 18:03 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) |
| Message-ID | <A9z%R.9638$f6E1.1190@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #1759 |
On 2026-06-26, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote: > >> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said: >> >>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"? >> <snip> >> >> Most of the business world did years ago ... > > Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its > operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated > by Linux? Shhhhh... don't say that too loudly. Bill might not like it. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-26 12:23 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) |
| Message-ID | <20260626122353.00005191@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #1767 |
On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 18:03:12 GMT Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: > > Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its > > operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated > > by Linux? > > Shhhhh... don't say that too loudly. Bill might not like it. Are you kidding? M$ makes *bank* on Office 365, whether it's running as a bloated Web app or a bloated native executable. *Herds* of CEOs who validate themselves by cutting checks for stuff they'll never have to use have been inflicting this on their workers for like a decade now. Satya could probably not give less of a shit whether he's getting paid $xxx/mo. a head for that on Chromium/Linux or Edge/Win11.
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-27 11:09 +1200 |
| Subject | Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) |
| Message-ID | <111n0r6$svm3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1769 |
On 2026-06-26 19:23:53 +0000, John Ames said: > On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 18:03:12 GMT > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>> >>> Is this the same "business world" that has largely moved its >>> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated >>> by Linux? >> >> Shhhhh... don't say that too loudly. Bill might not like it. > > Are you kidding? M$ makes *bank* on Office 365, whether it's running as > a bloated Web app or a bloated native executable. *Herds* of CEOs who > validate themselves by cutting checks for stuff they'll never have to > use have been inflicting this on their workers for like a decade now. Microsloth Windoze and Orifice have unfortunately been basically business standards for multiple decades now. Word was first released in 1983 and "Office" (with Excel, etc.) in 1989. Even if people don't use Orifice themselves, almost every document you come across (other than PDFs) is in .doc format because that gives the widest potential compatibility ... as long as it's a simple document. If it's a complex document, then compatibility tends to go out the window. (For example, TextEdit and QuickLook on the Mac can read and write .doc / .docx format files, but even mildly complicated formatting will end up looking a mess, especially in QuickLook.) > Satya could probably not give less of a shit whether he's getting paid > $xxx/mo. a head for that on Chromium/Linux or Edge/Win11.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-27 00:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) |
| Message-ID | <111n4ee$trog$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1767 |
On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 18:03:12 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-06-26, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote: >> >>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said: >>> >>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"? >>> <snip> >>> >>> Most of the business world did years ago ... >> >> Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its >> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated >> by Linux? > > Shhhhh... don't say that too loudly. Bill might not like it. Regardless of what BillG might think, Microsoft freely admit that these days. Even their own cloud service is predominantly Linux-based, and they see no shame in admitting it.
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| From | scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-25 15:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <w1c%R.41187$81a2.153@fx17.iad> |
| In reply to | #1732 |
In article <111hii9$3b57f$1@dont-email.me>, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote: >"PoS" is definitely he correct term for the numerous different Linux >varities. None of the standard software runs on it for a start - no >Adobe, no Microsoft, etc. That could be (and probably should be) viewed as a feature, not a bug. :) -- _/_ / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail) (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting! \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-24 08:01 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260624080106.00005d5f@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #1717 |
On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 07:45:57 +0200 Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> wrote: > > > Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it > > > is that Apple runs on its machines. > > > > Technically, you've got that almost-backwards. > > > > Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin > > derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system. > > Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while > > Linux is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux > > cannot. :-p > > Noone cares about the brand any more. Lawrence clearly does.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-24 16:34 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <111gtdn$348m3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1721 |
On 24/06/2026 16:01, John Ames wrote: > On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 07:45:57 +0200 > Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> wrote: > >>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it >>>> is that Apple runs on its machines. >>> >>> Technically, you've got that almost-backwards. >>> >>> Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin >>> derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system. >>> Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while >>> Linux is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux >>> cannot. :-p >> >> Noone cares about the brand any more. > > Lawrence clearly does. > He should have said 'nobody' cares about the brand, thereby including Lawrence -- Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
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| From | scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-25 15:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <a6c%R.41188$81a2.17637@fx17.iad> |
| In reply to | #1721 |
In article <20260624080106.00005d5f@gmail.com>, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: >Lawrence clearly does. Placing this in ~/News/KILL will improve your Usenet experience: /ldo@nz.invalid/f:j HTH. :) -- _/_ / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail) (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting! \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-24 18:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <na2l7fFop6qU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1717 |
On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 07:45:57 +0200, Marc Haber wrote: > Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote: >>On 2026-06-24 01:24:17 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said: >>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange quirls >>>> to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with ... >>> >>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it is >>> that Apple runs on its machines. >> >>Technically, you've got that almost-backwards. >> >>Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin >>derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system. >>Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while Linux >>is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux cannot. >>:-p > > Noone cares about the brand any more. Having used AIX, which meets the Single Unix Specification for UNIX 03 I'm not sure being a 'true UNIX' is a recommendation.
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| From | John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-24 17:15 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <111gsbe$33sq2$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1714 |
On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote: > >> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange quirls >> to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with ... > > Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it is > that Apple runs on its machines. In what way? -- Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/ Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-25 01:14 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <111hve8$3e43k$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1722 |
On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote: > On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote: >> >>> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange >>> quirls to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with >>> ... >> >> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it >> is that Apple runs on its machines. > > In what way? One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation of the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the window.
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| From | John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-25 18:32 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <111jl6p$3trjm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1736 |
On 25/06/2026 03:14, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote: > >> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote: >>> >>>> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange >>>> quirls to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with >>>> ... >>> >>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it >>> is that Apple runs on its machines. >> >> In what way? > > One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation of > the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the window. How? -- Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/ Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-25 23:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <111kd7r$4v7h$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1754 |
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:32:08 +0200, John Bokma wrote: > On 25/06/2026 03:14, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> >> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote: >> >>> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>>> >>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it >>>> is that Apple runs on its machines. >>> >>> In what way? >> >> One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation >> of the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the >> window. > > How? By integrating its GUI tightly into its OS kernel.
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