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Apple High End DSLR?

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  Apple High End DSLR? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2012-08-20 13:47 -0700
    Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 17:28 -0400
      Re: Apple High End DSLR? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-20 15:23 -0700
        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 18:49 -0400
          Re: Apple High End DSLR? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-20 16:36 -0700
            Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 19:53 -0400
        Re: Apple High End DSLR? George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-20 18:26 -0500
        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2012-08-21 15:05 +0200
      Re: Apple High End DSLR? YourName@YourISP.com (Your Name) - 2012-08-21 16:10 +1200
        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-21 18:50 -0400
      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-21 01:10 -0400
        Re: Apple High End DSLR? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2012-08-21 01:49 -0400
          Re: Apple High End DSLR? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-20 23:40 -0700
        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-21 19:01 -0400
          Re: Apple High End DSLR? Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-21 16:08 -0700
            Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-21 21:20 -0400
          Re: Apple High End DSLR? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-21 16:09 -0700
            Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-21 21:26 -0400
              Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-21 19:29 -0700
                Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-08-22 10:25 +0100
                  Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-08-23 08:06 +1000
                    Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2012-08-22 15:15 -0700
                      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-08-23 08:35 +1000
                        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-08-24 07:57 +1000
                Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-23 16:53 -0400
                  Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-23 14:01 -0700
                    iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2012-08-23 15:13 -0700
                      Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-23 15:27 -0700
                      Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-23 19:08 -0400
                        Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple   High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2012-08-23 16:54 -0700
                          Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-24 16:45 -0400
                        Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-23 21:30 -0700
                          Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-24 16:57 -0400
                            Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-24 14:17 -0700
                              Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-24 17:47 -0400
                                Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-24 14:55 -0700
                                  Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-25 09:08 -0400
                                    Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-26 11:44 -0700
                                      Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-26 15:31 -0400
                                        Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2012-08-27 10:46 -0700
                                          Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!) Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-27 19:23 -0400
                                            Keepers, storage, culling photos [was Re: iCloud, PhotoStream a....] John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2012-08-27 19:53 -0700
                                              Re: Keepers, storage, culling photos [was Re: iCloud, PhotoStream a....] Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-28 19:49 -0400
                    Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-23 21:10 -0400
                      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-23 21:42 -0700
                  Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-23 14:39 -0700
                    Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-24 17:32 -0400
                      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-24 14:49 -0700
                        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-24 17:51 -0400
                      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-24 16:46 -0700
                        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-25 09:12 -0400
                      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2012-08-24 17:16 -0700
                        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-25 09:13 -0400
                          Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2012-08-25 09:41 -0700
                            Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-25 13:00 -0400
                              Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2012-08-25 10:47 -0700
                                Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-25 14:12 -0400
                                  Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2012-08-25 11:16 -0700
                                    Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-25 14:51 -0400
                                      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-25 15:37 -0400
                                        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-25 16:51 -0400
                                          Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! MC <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> - 2012-08-25 16:56 -0400
                                            Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-26 16:13 -0400
                                              Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-26 19:12 -0400
                                                Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-26 19:17 -0400
                                              Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2012-08-26 18:20 -0700
                                              Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2012-08-27 10:48 -0700
                                          Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-25 17:09 -0400
                                            Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-25 18:14 -0400
                                              Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-25 22:23 -0400
                                                Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-25 19:53 -0700
                                                  Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-08-26 12:58 +1000
                                                  Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2012-08-25 23:16 -0400
                                                    Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-25 20:28 -0700
                                                    Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-26 10:47 -0400
                                                  Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-26 10:41 -0400
                                                    Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-26 13:20 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-26 13:33 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-26 19:05 -0400
                                                          Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-26 19:19 -0400
                                                Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-26 10:37 -0400
                                            Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-08-25 23:18 +0100
                                              Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-08-26 09:57 +1000
                                                Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-08-26 13:27 +0100
                                    Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-25 15:33 -0400
                                      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-25 16:53 -0400
                                        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2012-08-25 17:48 -0700
                                          Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-26 16:23 -0400
                            Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2012-08-25 20:23 -0700
                              Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero! Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-26 10:48 -0400
          Re: Apple High End DSLR? Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2012-08-21 16:31 -0700
            Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-21 21:27 -0400
            Re: Apple High End DSLR? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2012-08-21 21:59 -0700
          Re: Apple High End DSLR? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2012-08-21 21:27 -0400
            Re: Apple High End DSLR? John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2012-08-22 16:03 -0700
              Re: Apple High End DSLR? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2012-08-23 01:50 +0000
    Re: Apple High End DSLR? Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-20 15:37 -0700
      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 18:48 -0400
        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-20 16:00 -0700
          Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 19:38 -0400
            Re: Apple High End DSLR? Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-20 16:51 -0700
              Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 19:58 -0400
                Re: Apple High End DSLR? Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-20 17:13 -0700
            Re: Apple High End DSLR? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-20 19:24 -0700
    Re: Apple High End DSLR? "Charles" <charlesschuler@comcast.net> - 2012-08-20 18:52 -0400
      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 19:42 -0400
      Re: Apple High End DSLR? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2012-08-20 22:34 -0400
        Re: Apple High End DSLR? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2012-08-20 22:44 -0400
          Re: Apple High End DSLR? Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2012-08-21 15:15 +0200
          Re: Apple High End DSLR? Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> - 2012-08-21 07:54 -0600
          Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-21 21:08 -0400
        Re: Apple High End DSLR? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-21 18:30 -0400
          Re: Apple High End DSLR? YourName@YourISP.com (Your Name) - 2012-08-22 13:09 +1200
    Re: Apple High End DSLR? George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-20 18:04 -0500
    Re: Apple High End DSLR? "Mark Dodel" <madodelNOSPAM@ptd.net> - 2012-08-20 19:19 -0500
    Re: Apple High End DSLR? "zulu" <zulu.romeotangohotel@ntlworld.com> - 2012-08-21 15:54 +0100
      Re: Apple High End DSLR? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-21 13:59 -0400

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#29916 — Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!

In article <timstreater-C76D55.10254022082012@news.individual.net>,
 Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> > many cameras no longer show up in finder.

One reason I still grab my Sony DSC-P200 rather than the more capable 
(but bulkier) Canon G11 is that it appears on the desktop when you 
connect via USB and you can see the files in the folders and how is 
this not absolutely perfect if you already have highly capable 
software to show and manipulate whatever is there? 

With the Canon, software comes up to ask you if you want to save not 
yet transferred pics to your HD, you say yes, and it does the job but 
you then have to piss off all the software you don't want that offers 
all manner of things to display and manipulate images (I am sure it is 
competent enough if you want it) and then you have to go looking for 
the folders it has made and filled, it does a date thing and while all 
this is not stupid, it is a pesky thing and I would dearly like to 
just see what is on the camera and grab and dump whatever I want at 
will.

I mention the last in case anyone has a clue how I can get the Canon 
to appear in Finder directly and not fire up any Canon software.

-- 
dorayme

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#29917 — Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!

On 2012-08-22 22:06:44 +0000, dorayme said:

> In article <timstreater-C76D55.10254022082012@news.individual.net>,
>  Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> 
>>> many cameras no longer show up in finder.
> 
> One reason I still grab my Sony DSC-P200 rather than the more capable
> (but bulkier) Canon G11 is that it appears on the desktop when you
> connect via USB ...
> 
> With the Canon, software comes up to ask you if you want to save not
> yet transferred pics to your HD, you say yes, and it does the job but
> you then have to piss off all the software you don't want that offers
> 
> I mention the last in case anyone has a clue how I can get the Canon
> to appear in Finder directly and not fire up any Canon software.

You don't.  But you can tell the computer to default to using Image 
Capture (part of OS X, not Canon's software).  Image Capture lets you 
either download all pix with a single click, or select particular ones 
to download - and even lets you do a little manipulation before 
downloading if you like.

Applications->Image Capture

Start it up.  Plug in the camera.  The camera should show up in the 
list of devices/sources on the left.  Click on the camera and tell it 
to use Image Capture by default.  Do as you like.

It's really quite nice, actually.

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#29918 — Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!

In article <k13lli$31g$1@reader1.panix.com>,
 Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:

> On 2012-08-22 22:06:44 +0000, dorayme said:
> 
... 
> > I mention the last in case anyone has a clue how I can get the Canon [G11]
> > to appear in Finder directly and not fire up any Canon software.
> 
> You don't.  But you can tell the computer to default to using Image 
> Capture (part of OS X, not Canon's software).  Image Capture lets you 
> either download all pix with a single click, or select particular ones 
> to download - and even lets you do a little manipulation before 
> downloading if you like.
> 
> Applications->Image Capture
> 
> Start it up.  Plug in the camera.  The camera should show up in the 
> list of devices/sources on the left.  Click on the camera and tell it 
> to use Image Capture by default.  Do as you like.
> 
> It's really quite nice, actually.

hmm... will have a go and get back to you, thanks.

-- 
dorayme

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#29963 — Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!

In article <dorayme-851EC0.08350123082012@news.albasani.net>,
 dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> In article <k13lli$31g$1@reader1.panix.com>,
>  Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:
> 
> > On 2012-08-22 22:06:44 +0000, dorayme said:
> > 
> ... 
> > > I mention the last in case anyone has a clue how I can get the Canon [G11]
> > > to appear in Finder directly and not fire up any Canon software.
> > 
> > You don't.  But you can tell the computer to default to using Image 
> > Capture (part of OS X, not Canon's software).  Image Capture lets you 
> > either download all pix with a single click, or select particular ones 
> > to download - and even lets you do a little manipulation before 
> > downloading if you like.
> > 
> > Applications->Image Capture
> > 
> > Start it up.  Plug in the camera.  The camera should show up in the 
> > list of devices/sources on the left.  Click on the camera and tell it 
> > to use Image Capture by default.  Do as you like.
> > 
> > It's really quite nice, actually.
> 
> hmm... will have a go and get back to you, thanks.

OK, I took a look. Yes, instead of one of the Canon apps (that is 
quite competent) that does similar, there is this Mac one. Neither, as 
I said, are as good for me as being able to simply see the camera 
files in Finder (as with the Sony). 

Too early to judge thoroughly whether there are any particular 
advantages. But there are some interesting disadvantages to the Mac 
one, and a rather surprising one. I will describe one.

It won't let me choose the desktop directly from the sidebar of a 
Finder window when I want to import to "Other..." (in order to choose 
a particular folder), it defaults to the user account in the sidebar: 
dorayme/desktop. It does this because, presumably, it wants to give me 
the absolute best opportunities. 

To explain, on my desktop, I have an alias of a password protected 
.dmg. It thinks I *might* want to import to that and so, of course, 
being so peskily helpful, it asks me for a password and there is no 
way to escape it, the program will just keep asking. 

Of course, there are many workarounds, there is unlikely to be one to 
tell it to relax and ignore that there is this alias there! <g>

-- 
dorayme

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#29958 — Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!

On 2012-08-21 22:29 , nospam wrote:
> In article <qKSdnVIYjNWoqKnNnZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> (Of course I'd still prefer to just see them in Finder, but the above is
>> a vast improvement over the Apple 4 step).
>
> many cameras no longer show up in finder. apple isn't unique about
> that.
>
> nikon started doing that a while ago. not that it matters, because it's
> easier to just pop the card out of the camera and into a card reader.
>
> oddly enough, an iphone shows up in windows explorer.
>
>>> or, you can use icloud and they're already on your computer in zero
>>> steps.
>>
>> I don't do iCloud.  Won't do iCloud.
>
> you might not, but others do and with icloud, it's zero steps.

The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data from 
my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.

If it were a mirror of a computer I designate as master (say my iMac), 
then I'd use it.

-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

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#29960 — Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:

> On 2012-08-21 22:29 , nospam wrote:
> > In article <qKSdnVIYjNWoqKnNnZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> > <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> (Of course I'd still prefer to just see them in Finder, but the above is
> >> a vast improvement over the Apple 4 step).
> >
> > many cameras no longer show up in finder. apple isn't unique about
> > that.
> >
> > nikon started doing that a while ago. not that it matters, because it's
> > easier to just pop the card out of the camera and into a card reader.
> >
> > oddly enough, an iphone shows up in windows explorer.
> >
> >>> or, you can use icloud and they're already on your computer in zero
> >>> steps.
> >>
> >> I don't do iCloud.  Won't do iCloud.
> >
> > you might not, but others do and with icloud, it's zero steps.
> 
> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.

I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.

But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
continue to have all your data on your computer.

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#29968 — iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:

> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> 
>> 
>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
> 
> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
> 
> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
> continue to have all your data on your computer.

AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem 
is called PhotoStream and it works like this:  You authorize your iOS 
devices and your Mac's Aperture or iPhoto to use it.  Any photo that 
gets pushed up to the photostream (and you can enable this to be 
automatic from any device) gets synced to all the other devices 
subscribed to your photostream.  On iOS devices, and in the cloud 
itself, only the last 1000 photos stay.  On your desktop Mac or PC, any 
photo which arrived on the device via photostream stays permanently (or 
until you delete it by hand, I suppose).

In short, iCloud's photostream is, in effect, *not* "keeping all your 
data in the cloud" or even "decentralization".  It's actually just a 
way to get all your pictures from all your sources *onto your computer* 
without even trying.  The cloud is just the intermediary which lets it 
happen.

That all said, I don't (yet) use photostream.  I'm still thinking about 
it.  I can see how it would make my life a bit easier, inasmuch as my 
primary achive of photos - iPhoto on my home machine (which is backed 
up, both Time Machine and offsite by other means) - would still remain 
my primary archive of photos.  Photostream would simply allow me to add 
to that archive from other places easily (ie. my laptop when I'm on the 
road, plus iOS devices).  Right now, when I travel, I may download all 
the picture from my camera onto my laptop, but when I get home, I do it 
again (either directly from the camera if I haven't erased them, or by 
copying a folder full of them from one machine to the other) onto the 
desktop.

But make no mistake - iCloud's photostream is NOT intended to be your 
primary archive of photos - anything over 1000 is lost - nor is it 
intended to be your photo archive's backup - again it's only 1000 
photos.  You still need some computer - mac or PC - as your main 
archive, and you still need to back that computer up using traditional 
methods of backup.

Some more details from Apple here:  http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4486

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#29971 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> writes:

> On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
> 
> > Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> >
> >> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
> >> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
> > I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
> > But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud
> > and
> > continue to have all your data on your computer.
> 
> AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem
> is called PhotoStream and it works like this:  You authorize your iOS
> devices and your Mac's Aperture or iPhoto to use it.  Any photo that
> gets pushed up to the photostream (and you can enable this to be
> automatic from any device) gets synced to all the other devices
> subscribed to your photostream.  On iOS devices, and in the cloud
> itself, only the last 1000 photos stay.  On your desktop Mac or PC,
> any photo which arrived on the device via photostream stays
> permanently (or until you delete it by hand, I suppose).
> 
> In short, iCloud's photostream is, in effect, *not* "keeping all your
> data in the cloud" or even "decentralization".  It's actually just a
> way to get all your pictures from all your sources *onto your
> computer* without even trying.  The cloud is just the intermediary
> which lets it happen.

Yes, this is the way I see it too.

> That all said, I don't (yet) use photostream.  I'm still thinking
> about it.  I can see how it would make my life a bit easier, inasmuch
> as my primary achive of photos - iPhoto on my home machine (which is
> backed up, both Time Machine and offsite by other means) - would still
> remain my primary archive of photos.  Photostream would simply allow
> me to add to that archive from other places easily (ie. my laptop when
> I'm on the road, plus iOS devices).  Right now, when I travel, I may
> download all the picture from my camera onto my laptop, but when I get
> home, I do it again (either directly from the camera if I haven't
> erased them, or by copying a folder full of them from one machine to
> the other) onto the desktop.

For me, this is easier but more confusing than what I used to do.

I used to 

1) Add photos to my library on my laptop.

2) Periodically use rsync to copy my photo library from my laptop to a
my desktop at work.

3) Every year or so archive the whole thing to DVDs.

This worked well, though it was frightening at first, and I erased the
target library at least once (which wasn't a problem since the source
library was unharmed).

Also it requires me remembering to do something.

But the day after I do it, I know exactly what I have - two identical
iPhoto libraries.

With iCloud, I never feel quite certain what is going on, and I worry
about what happens if I don't run iPhoto often enough on one of the
computers I'm counting on downloading copies of my recent photos from
iCloud.

> But make no mistake - iCloud's photostream is NOT intended to be your
> primary archive of photos - anything over 1000 is lost - nor is it
> intended to be your photo archive's backup - again it's only 1000
> photos.  You still need some computer - mac or PC - as your main
> archive, and you still need to back that computer up using traditional
> methods of backup.

Yep.

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#29972 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

On 2012-08-23 18:13 , Bread wrote:
> On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
>
>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>
>>>
>>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
>>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
>>
>> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
>>
>> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
>> continue to have all your data on your computer.

The point is it loses the 'center' or rather the center moves away from 
my main personal computer.

> AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem is
> called PhotoStream and it works like this:

Ya know, the fact that you had to explain it over a couple of paragraphs 
is probably the best reason why it's not suited to me for photography of 
any kind!

I take in excess of 200 photos per week (casually) and in excess of 200 
/ day when I'm on vacation, a trip or a project.  And with a camera that 
is quite a bit better (ahem) than the iPhone.

Only a small amount of that photography is web worthy in any way.  So I 
use websites, dropbox and e-mail for those.

-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

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#29974 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

On 2012-08-23 23:08:27 +0000, Alan Browne said:

> On 2012-08-23 18:13 , Bread wrote:
>> On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
>> 
>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
>>>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
>>> 
>>> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
>>> 
>>> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
>>> continue to have all your data on your computer.
> 
> The point is it loses the 'center' or rather the center moves away from 
> my main personal computer.

Maybe you didn't read what I wrote.  The "center" remains your main 
personal computer.  PhotoStream is simply a channel for getting the 
photos *to* that center.
> 
>> AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem is
>> called PhotoStream and it works like this:
> 
> Ya know, the fact that you had to explain it over a couple of 
> paragraphs is probably the best reason why it's not suited to me for 
> photography of any kind!

I suppose.  It took me a little while to figure it out, too.  But now 
that I understand it, it looks to me like it will make my life easier 
than the current system which requires me to copy by hand after I 
return from a vacation or other period away from my main computer.
> 
> I take in excess of 200 photos per week (casually) and in excess of 200 
> / day when I'm on vacation, a trip or a project.  And with a camera 
> that is quite a bit better (ahem) than the iPhone.

I don't take quite that many on a daily/weekly basis, but on vacations 
and when there are family events, the number certainly gets close to 
what you're describing.  And of course, I'm talking about a better 
camera than my iPhone.
> 
> Only a small amount of that photography is web worthy in any way.  So I 
> use websites, dropbox and e-mail for those.

I have no idea what you think "web worthy" has to do with any of this.

Nor am I trying to convince you that you should use PhotoStream.  I 
just hope to see a little light go on to indicate that you at least 
have an idea what it really is.  Based on your comments, you really 
don't, I think.  Frankly, until I spent a little bit of time digging, 
neither did I.  I think Apple's done an absolutely lousy job of making 
it clear what this does and how it would integrate into anyone's 
workflow.

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#29985 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos

On 2012-08-23 19:54 , Bread wrote:
> On 2012-08-23 23:08:27 +0000, Alan Browne said:
>
>> On 2012-08-23 18:13 , Bread wrote:
>>> On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
>>>
>>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
>>>>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
>>>>
>>>> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
>>>> continue to have all your data on your computer.
>>
>> The point is it loses the 'center' or rather the center moves away
>> from my main personal computer.
>
> Maybe you didn't read what I wrote.  The "center" remains your main
> personal computer.  PhotoStream is simply a channel for getting the
> photos *to* that center.

I'll defer to you wrt photostream - I don't recall actually enabling it.

I should say that my photo editing is centered on PS CS5 with 
"organization" provided by Bridge.  As I work things, using cloud would 
present a couple awkward issues.

For instance, when I convert from raw to DNG, the DNG conversion from 
the camera card, under Bridge has more options than the straight DNG 
converter from files.  (Mainly re-naming, insertion of custom EXIF info 
and so on).

Then before editing the DNG's I exiftool GPS data (when appropriate) 
into the files (my DSLR doesn't have GPS built in or interfaceable). 
Next one will - I hope.

This is all stuff I do before backup and before working on the photos.

So the copy "in the cloud" would then have to be sync'd again - at huge 
bandwidth cost.  (capped amount per month).

It's really not worth it to me to have to manage what is in and not in 
the cloud.

The few photos I carry on my iPhone, I copy to it from time to time from 
my Mac.

>>> AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem is
>>> called PhotoStream and it works like this:
>>
>> Ya know, the fact that you had to explain it over a couple of
>> paragraphs is probably the best reason why it's not suited to me for
>> photography of any kind!
>
> I suppose.  It took me a little while to figure it out, too.  But now
> that I understand it, it looks to me like it will make my life easier
> than the current system which requires me to copy by hand after I return
> from a vacation or other period away from my main computer.

My camera is a 24 Mpix camera.  The files are quite large (about 33 - 36 
Mpix (raw)).  So I backup the files to whatever laptop I brought along 
and when I get home I UL them to my Mac, backup to Drobo and for 
projects burn DVD's.

The 'cloud is not going to help me with this.

And when 'on the road' bandwidth is sufficient (one day, perhaps), I'll 
upload them via Dropbox (or whatever).

>> I take in excess of 200 photos per week (casually) and in excess of
>> 200 / day when I'm on vacation, a trip or a project.  And with a
>> camera that is quite a bit better (ahem) than the iPhone.
>
> I don't take quite that many on a daily/weekly basis, but on vacations
> and when there are family events, the number certainly gets close to
> what you're describing.  And of course, I'm talking about a better
> camera than my iPhone.

I should hope so.

> Only a small amount of that photography is web worthy in any way.  So
>> I use websites, dropbox and e-mail for those.
>
> I have no idea what you think "web worthy" has to do with any of this.

Even when you take as many photos as I do, only a scant few (to me) are 
worth posting, e-mailing or printing.  There are exceptions 
(occasionally I'll shoot an event for a friend, in that case the 
"keeper" ratio is higher).

> Nor am I trying to convince you that you should use PhotoStream.  I just
> hope to see a little light go on to indicate that you at least have an
> idea what it really is.  Based on your comments, you really don't, I
> think.  Frankly, until I spent a little bit of time digging, neither did
> I.  I think Apple's done an absolutely lousy job of making it clear what
> this does and how it would integrate into anyone's workflow.

What turned me off of iCloud was when I sync'd to it, suddenly all my 
Calendar entries were duplicated everywhere - that is to say, that in my 
Mac calender each event was doubled, and on my iPhone.  I don't recall 
what happened with my mail but it was just as bad a disaster overall.

All I use the cloud for now is for the find my iPhone feature.

Further, of course, my ISP bandwidth is capped.  So having things 
replicated to the cloud when there is no need digs into that cap.

-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

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#29981 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:

> On 2012-08-23 18:13 , Bread wrote:
> > On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
> >
> >> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
> >>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
> >>
> >> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
> >>
> >> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
> >> continue to have all your data on your computer.
> 
> The point is it loses the 'center' or rather the center moves away
> from my main personal computer.


I think that is a misunderstanding of what photostream does.

> > AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem is
> > called PhotoStream and it works like this:
> 
> Ya know, the fact that you had to explain it over a couple of
> paragraphs is probably the best reason why it's not suited to me for
> photography of any kind!

That may be a good point.
> 
> I take in excess of 200 photos per week (casually) and in excess of
> 200 / day when I'm on vacation, a trip or a project.  And with a
> camera that is quite a bit better (ahem) than the iPhone.
> 
> Only a small amount of that photography is web worthy in any way.  So
> I use websites, dropbox and e-mail for those.

That isn't a good point and again indicates you may misunderstand what
photostream does.  It doesn't put your pictures on the web.  It does
try to use the internet to put your pictures on your other
computers/devices.

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#29986 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

On 2012-08-24 00:30 , Doug Anderson wrote:
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>
>> On 2012-08-23 18:13 , Bread wrote:
>>> On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
>>>
>>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
>>>>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
>>>>
>>>> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
>>>> continue to have all your data on your computer.
>>
>> The point is it loses the 'center' or rather the center moves away
>> from my main personal computer.
>
>
> I think that is a misunderstanding of what photostream does.
>
>>> AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem is
>>> called PhotoStream and it works like this:
>>
>> Ya know, the fact that you had to explain it over a couple of
>> paragraphs is probably the best reason why it's not suited to me for
>> photography of any kind!
>
> That may be a good point.
>>
>> I take in excess of 200 photos per week (casually) and in excess of
>> 200 / day when I'm on vacation, a trip or a project.  And with a
>> camera that is quite a bit better (ahem) than the iPhone.
>>
>> Only a small amount of that photography is web worthy in any way.  So
>> I use websites, dropbox and e-mail for those.
>
> That isn't a good point and again indicates you may misunderstand what
> photostream does.  It doesn't put your pictures on the web.  It does
> try to use the internet to put your pictures on your other
> computers/devices.

Fair enough, but given the high volume of high res photos I take, I 
suspect that it would be more of an impediment to me than a bonus.  I 
may try it briefly with the iPhone this week just to understand it.  But 
its usefulness wrt photography (for me as I do it) and the (ahem) P&S 
world is probably pretty low.


-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

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#29989 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:

> On 2012-08-24 00:30 , Doug Anderson wrote:
> > Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> >
> >> On 2012-08-23 18:13 , Bread wrote:
> >>> On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
> >>>
> >>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
> >>>>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
> >>>>
> >>>> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
> >>>> continue to have all your data on your computer.
> >>
> >> The point is it loses the 'center' or rather the center moves away
> >> from my main personal computer.
> >
> >
> > I think that is a misunderstanding of what photostream does.
> >
> >>> AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem is
> >>> called PhotoStream and it works like this:
> >>
> >> Ya know, the fact that you had to explain it over a couple of
> >> paragraphs is probably the best reason why it's not suited to me for
> >> photography of any kind!
> >
> > That may be a good point.
> >>
> >> I take in excess of 200 photos per week (casually) and in excess of
> >> 200 / day when I'm on vacation, a trip or a project.  And with a
> >> camera that is quite a bit better (ahem) than the iPhone.
> >>
> >> Only a small amount of that photography is web worthy in any way.  So
> >> I use websites, dropbox and e-mail for those.
> >
> > That isn't a good point and again indicates you may misunderstand what
> > photostream does.  It doesn't put your pictures on the web.  It does
> > try to use the internet to put your pictures on your other
> > computers/devices.
> 
> Fair enough, but given the high volume of high res photos I take, I
> suspect that it would be more of an impediment to me than a bonus.  I
> may try it briefly with the iPhone this week just to understand it.
> But its usefulness wrt photography (for me as I do it) and the (ahem)
> P&S world is probably pretty low.

That could well be.  I take pictures mostly with a Canon G10 (not in
raw mode) and occasionally with my iPhone 3gs (for convenience, not
because it has a good camera).

And my internet bandwidth is not capped.

And I use iPhoto to organize my digital images.

Given the above, photostream becomes a very convenient way to put
photos into my iPhoto library on my computers.

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#29992 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

On 2012-08-24 17:17 , Doug Anderson wrote:
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>
>> On 2012-08-24 00:30 , Doug Anderson wrote:
>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2012-08-23 18:13 , Bread wrote:
>>>>> On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
>>>>>>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
>>>>>> continue to have all your data on your computer.
>>>>
>>>> The point is it loses the 'center' or rather the center moves away
>>>> from my main personal computer.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that is a misunderstanding of what photostream does.
>>>
>>>>> AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem is
>>>>> called PhotoStream and it works like this:
>>>>
>>>> Ya know, the fact that you had to explain it over a couple of
>>>> paragraphs is probably the best reason why it's not suited to me for
>>>> photography of any kind!
>>>
>>> That may be a good point.
>>>>
>>>> I take in excess of 200 photos per week (casually) and in excess of
>>>> 200 / day when I'm on vacation, a trip or a project.  And with a
>>>> camera that is quite a bit better (ahem) than the iPhone.
>>>>
>>>> Only a small amount of that photography is web worthy in any way.  So
>>>> I use websites, dropbox and e-mail for those.
>>>
>>> That isn't a good point and again indicates you may misunderstand what
>>> photostream does.  It doesn't put your pictures on the web.  It does
>>> try to use the internet to put your pictures on your other
>>> computers/devices.
>>
>> Fair enough, but given the high volume of high res photos I take, I
>> suspect that it would be more of an impediment to me than a bonus.  I
>> may try it briefly with the iPhone this week just to understand it.
>> But its usefulness wrt photography (for me as I do it) and the (ahem)
>> P&S world is probably pretty low.
>
> That could well be.  I take pictures mostly with a Canon G10 (not in
> raw mode) and occasionally with my iPhone 3gs (for convenience, not
> because it has a good camera).
>
> And my internet bandwidth is not capped.

Even if my BW wasn't capped, I can't see occupying time on the road with 
spotty upload rates and trying to squeeze 6 - 7 GB / day (or more up 
that pipe) and then down again into my machine (1 MB/s DL rate).

> And I use iPhoto to organize my digital images.
>
> Given the above, photostream becomes a very convenient way to put
> photos into my iPhoto library on my computers.

Dead issue.

I was going to try it for at least my iPhone.  But my copy of iPhoto 
goes back to when I bought this Mac (included).  The version that 
integrates to the cloud is $15 to DL.

I'm not paying that for iPhoto.  I doubt I'd pay $5 for it.

-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

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#29996 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:

> On 2012-08-24 17:17 , Doug Anderson wrote:
> > Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> >
> >> On 2012-08-24 00:30 , Doug Anderson wrote:
> >>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2012-08-23 18:13 , Bread wrote:
> >>>>> On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
> >>>>>>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
> >>>>>> continue to have all your data on your computer.
> >>>>
> >>>> The point is it loses the 'center' or rather the center moves away
> >>>> from my main personal computer.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think that is a misunderstanding of what photostream does.
> >>>
> >>>>> AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem is
> >>>>> called PhotoStream and it works like this:
> >>>>
> >>>> Ya know, the fact that you had to explain it over a couple of
> >>>> paragraphs is probably the best reason why it's not suited to me for
> >>>> photography of any kind!
> >>>
> >>> That may be a good point.
> >>>>
> >>>> I take in excess of 200 photos per week (casually) and in excess of
> >>>> 200 / day when I'm on vacation, a trip or a project.  And with a
> >>>> camera that is quite a bit better (ahem) than the iPhone.
> >>>>
> >>>> Only a small amount of that photography is web worthy in any way.  So
> >>>> I use websites, dropbox and e-mail for those.
> >>>
> >>> That isn't a good point and again indicates you may misunderstand what
> >>> photostream does.  It doesn't put your pictures on the web.  It does
> >>> try to use the internet to put your pictures on your other
> >>> computers/devices.
> >>
> >> Fair enough, but given the high volume of high res photos I take, I
> >> suspect that it would be more of an impediment to me than a bonus.  I
> >> may try it briefly with the iPhone this week just to understand it.
> >> But its usefulness wrt photography (for me as I do it) and the (ahem)
> >> P&S world is probably pretty low.
> >
> > That could well be.  I take pictures mostly with a Canon G10 (not in
> > raw mode) and occasionally with my iPhone 3gs (for convenience, not
> > because it has a good camera).
> >
> > And my internet bandwidth is not capped.
> 
> Even if my BW wasn't capped, I can't see occupying time on the road
> with spotty upload rates and trying to squeeze 6 - 7 GB / day (or more
> up that pipe) and then down again into my machine (1 MB/s DL rate).

When I'm on the road I can usually wait for uncapped WIFI before doing
this kind of thing (or even just wait until I get home).

So presumably you just trust the safety of the device(s) you are
traveling with while you are on the road?  That probably makes sense
in a lot of situations. 

> > And I use iPhoto to organize my digital images.
> >
> > Given the above, photostream becomes a very convenient way to put
> > photos into my iPhoto library on my computers.
> 
> Dead issue.
> 
> I was going to try it for at least my iPhone.  But my copy of iPhoto
> goes back to when I bought this Mac (included).  The version that
> integrates to the cloud is $15 to DL.
> 
> I'm not paying that for iPhoto.  I doubt I'd pay $5 for it.

Why should you if you have something that works better?  As for me,
iPhoto together with iCloud keeping things synced is kind of nice.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#30005 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

On 2012-08-24 17:55 , Doug Anderson wrote:
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>
>> On 2012-08-24 17:17 , Doug Anderson wrote:
>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2012-08-24 00:30 , Doug Anderson wrote:
>>>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2012-08-23 18:13 , Bread wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
>>>>>>>>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
>>>>>>>> continue to have all your data on your computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point is it loses the 'center' or rather the center moves away
>>>>>> from my main personal computer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that is a misunderstanding of what photostream does.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem is
>>>>>>> called PhotoStream and it works like this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ya know, the fact that you had to explain it over a couple of
>>>>>> paragraphs is probably the best reason why it's not suited to me for
>>>>>> photography of any kind!
>>>>>
>>>>> That may be a good point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I take in excess of 200 photos per week (casually) and in excess of
>>>>>> 200 / day when I'm on vacation, a trip or a project.  And with a
>>>>>> camera that is quite a bit better (ahem) than the iPhone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only a small amount of that photography is web worthy in any way.  So
>>>>>> I use websites, dropbox and e-mail for those.
>>>>>
>>>>> That isn't a good point and again indicates you may misunderstand what
>>>>> photostream does.  It doesn't put your pictures on the web.  It does
>>>>> try to use the internet to put your pictures on your other
>>>>> computers/devices.
>>>>
>>>> Fair enough, but given the high volume of high res photos I take, I
>>>> suspect that it would be more of an impediment to me than a bonus.  I
>>>> may try it briefly with the iPhone this week just to understand it.
>>>> But its usefulness wrt photography (for me as I do it) and the (ahem)
>>>> P&S world is probably pretty low.
>>>
>>> That could well be.  I take pictures mostly with a Canon G10 (not in
>>> raw mode) and occasionally with my iPhone 3gs (for convenience, not
>>> because it has a good camera).
>>>
>>> And my internet bandwidth is not capped.
>>
>> Even if my BW wasn't capped, I can't see occupying time on the road
>> with spotty upload rates and trying to squeeze 6 - 7 GB / day (or more
>> up that pipe) and then down again into my machine (1 MB/s DL rate).
>
> When I'm on the road I can usually wait for uncapped WIFI before doing
> this kind of thing (or even just wait until I get home).

I doubt I'd find WiFi that could UL 6 GB in a reasonable period.  Last 
brief (1 week) trip to the US I couldn't get any Boingo's to connect and 
hotel WiFi's were okay, but not terrifically fast.

> So presumably you just trust the safety of the device(s) you are
> traveling with while you are on the road?  That probably makes sense
> in a lot of situations.
>
>>> And I use iPhoto to organize my digital images.
>>>
>>> Given the above, photostream becomes a very convenient way to put
>>> photos into my iPhoto library on my computers.
>>
>> Dead issue.
>>
>> I was going to try it for at least my iPhone.  But my copy of iPhoto
>> goes back to when I bought this Mac (included).  The version that
>> integrates to the cloud is $15 to DL.
>>
>> I'm not paying that for iPhoto.  I doubt I'd pay $5 for it.
>
> Why should you if you have something that works better?  As for me,
> iPhoto together with iCloud keeping things synced is kind of nice.

I'm sure something will come along one day that will work for me.


-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#30096 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:

> On 2012-08-24 17:55 , Doug Anderson wrote:
> > Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> >
> >> On 2012-08-24 17:17 , Doug Anderson wrote:
> >>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2012-08-24 00:30 , Doug Anderson wrote:
> >>>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 2012-08-23 18:13 , Bread wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
> >>>>>>>>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
> >>>>>>>> continue to have all your data on your computer.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The point is it loses the 'center' or rather the center moves away
> >>>>>> from my main personal computer.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think that is a misunderstanding of what photostream does.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem is
> >>>>>>> called PhotoStream and it works like this:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ya know, the fact that you had to explain it over a couple of
> >>>>>> paragraphs is probably the best reason why it's not suited to me for
> >>>>>> photography of any kind!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That may be a good point.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I take in excess of 200 photos per week (casually) and in excess of
> >>>>>> 200 / day when I'm on vacation, a trip or a project.  And with a
> >>>>>> camera that is quite a bit better (ahem) than the iPhone.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Only a small amount of that photography is web worthy in any way.  So
> >>>>>> I use websites, dropbox and e-mail for those.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That isn't a good point and again indicates you may misunderstand what
> >>>>> photostream does.  It doesn't put your pictures on the web.  It does
> >>>>> try to use the internet to put your pictures on your other
> >>>>> computers/devices.
> >>>>
> >>>> Fair enough, but given the high volume of high res photos I take, I
> >>>> suspect that it would be more of an impediment to me than a bonus.  I
> >>>> may try it briefly with the iPhone this week just to understand it.
> >>>> But its usefulness wrt photography (for me as I do it) and the (ahem)
> >>>> P&S world is probably pretty low.
> >>>
> >>> That could well be.  I take pictures mostly with a Canon G10 (not in
> >>> raw mode) and occasionally with my iPhone 3gs (for convenience, not
> >>> because it has a good camera).
> >>>
> >>> And my internet bandwidth is not capped.
> >>
> >> Even if my BW wasn't capped, I can't see occupying time on the road
> >> with spotty upload rates and trying to squeeze 6 - 7 GB / day (or more
> >> up that pipe) and then down again into my machine (1 MB/s DL rate).
> >
> > When I'm on the road I can usually wait for uncapped WIFI before doing
> > this kind of thing (or even just wait until I get home).
> 
> I doubt I'd find WiFi that could UL 6 GB in a reasonable period.  Last
> brief (1 week) trip to the US I couldn't get any Boingo's to connect
> and hotel WiFi's were okay, but not terrifically fast.
> 
> > So presumably you just trust the safety of the device(s) you are
> > traveling with while you are on the road?  That probably makes sense
> > in a lot of situations.
> >
> >>> And I use iPhoto to organize my digital images.
> >>>
> >>> Given the above, photostream becomes a very convenient way to put
> >>> photos into my iPhoto library on my computers.
> >>
> >> Dead issue.
> >>
> >> I was going to try it for at least my iPhone.  But my copy of iPhoto
> >> goes back to when I bought this Mac (included).  The version that
> >> integrates to the cloud is $15 to DL.
> >>
> >> I'm not paying that for iPhoto.  I doubt I'd pay $5 for it.
> >
> > Why should you if you have something that works better?  As for me,
> > iPhoto together with iCloud keeping things synced is kind of nice.
> 
> I'm sure something will come along one day that will work for me.

Well you must be doing something now, but 6-7 GB per day is a lot of
data to be adding to your disk drives and backing up, no?

Maybe in 6 years, it won't seem like so much.

I don't know if your 6-7 GB per day is for professional purposes.  If
it is, it is probably outside of what iCloud is set up to handle
well.  If it isn't for professional use, then you are a couple
standard deviations away from the average amateur, so again not so
surprising that tools designed for the average user aren't incredibly
satisfactory.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#30098 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

On 2012.08.26 14:44 , Doug Anderson wrote:
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>
>> On 2012-08-24 17:55 , Doug Anderson wrote:
>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2012-08-24 17:17 , Doug Anderson wrote:
>>>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2012-08-24 00:30 , Doug Anderson wrote:
>>>>>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2012-08-23 18:13 , Bread wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2012-08-23 21:01:58 +0000, Doug Anderson said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The side effects of iCloud, including de-centralization of my data
>>>>>>>>>>> from my computer to iCloud is the primary reason I don't want it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying you should use iCloud - I don't care what you do.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But I'm not quite sure what your objection is.  You can use iCloud and
>>>>>>>>>> continue to have all your data on your computer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The point is it loses the 'center' or rather the center moves away
>>>>>>>> from my main personal computer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that is a misunderstanding of what photostream does.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, in particular with respect to iCloud and photos, the subsystem is
>>>>>>>>> called PhotoStream and it works like this:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ya know, the fact that you had to explain it over a couple of
>>>>>>>> paragraphs is probably the best reason why it's not suited to me for
>>>>>>>> photography of any kind!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That may be a good point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I take in excess of 200 photos per week (casually) and in excess of
>>>>>>>> 200 / day when I'm on vacation, a trip or a project.  And with a
>>>>>>>> camera that is quite a bit better (ahem) than the iPhone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Only a small amount of that photography is web worthy in any way.  So
>>>>>>>> I use websites, dropbox and e-mail for those.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That isn't a good point and again indicates you may misunderstand what
>>>>>>> photostream does.  It doesn't put your pictures on the web.  It does
>>>>>>> try to use the internet to put your pictures on your other
>>>>>>> computers/devices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fair enough, but given the high volume of high res photos I take, I
>>>>>> suspect that it would be more of an impediment to me than a bonus.  I
>>>>>> may try it briefly with the iPhone this week just to understand it.
>>>>>> But its usefulness wrt photography (for me as I do it) and the (ahem)
>>>>>> P&S world is probably pretty low.
>>>>>
>>>>> That could well be.  I take pictures mostly with a Canon G10 (not in
>>>>> raw mode) and occasionally with my iPhone 3gs (for convenience, not
>>>>> because it has a good camera).
>>>>>
>>>>> And my internet bandwidth is not capped.
>>>>
>>>> Even if my BW wasn't capped, I can't see occupying time on the road
>>>> with spotty upload rates and trying to squeeze 6 - 7 GB / day (or more
>>>> up that pipe) and then down again into my machine (1 MB/s DL rate).
>>>
>>> When I'm on the road I can usually wait for uncapped WIFI before doing
>>> this kind of thing (or even just wait until I get home).
>>
>> I doubt I'd find WiFi that could UL 6 GB in a reasonable period.  Last
>> brief (1 week) trip to the US I couldn't get any Boingo's to connect
>> and hotel WiFi's were okay, but not terrifically fast.
>>
>>> So presumably you just trust the safety of the device(s) you are
>>> traveling with while you are on the road?  That probably makes sense
>>> in a lot of situations.
>>>
>>>>> And I use iPhoto to organize my digital images.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the above, photostream becomes a very convenient way to put
>>>>> photos into my iPhoto library on my computers.
>>>>
>>>> Dead issue.
>>>>
>>>> I was going to try it for at least my iPhone.  But my copy of iPhoto
>>>> goes back to when I bought this Mac (included).  The version that
>>>> integrates to the cloud is $15 to DL.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not paying that for iPhoto.  I doubt I'd pay $5 for it.
>>>
>>> Why should you if you have something that works better?  As for me,
>>> iPhoto together with iCloud keeping things synced is kind of nice.
>>
>> I'm sure something will come along one day that will work for me.
>
> Well you must be doing something now, but 6-7 GB per day is a lot of
> data to be adding to your disk drives and backing up, no?

That would be "vacation" rate.  Usual rate is about 6 GB / week.

My main camera (these days) is a FF 24 Mpix camera.  Each shot is 33 - 
36 MB (raw) on the card.  I reduce that (losslessly) in importing them 
to the Mac by converting the images to the Adobe DNG format.  That 
reduces them to 16 - 22 MB each.  A good savings. That is the format I 
back them up in as well.

So while I "shoot" 6 GB/week, I backup about 4 GB/week.

OTOH if I shoot 6x6 film that scans to about 450 MB (yes - mega bytes) 
per frame.  But, that is shot much less.  But I can print quite large 
from that too (36"x36").  35mm film scans to about 22 MB per frame on my 
current scanner.  I haven't scanned much this year.

I have 8 TB of external storage hooked up and the Drobo (currently 4 GB) 
can be hot-swap upgraded (no loss of data) one drive at a time, to a 
maximum of 4x4 TB installed (which is effectively about 12 TB).

By the time I fill that up, I'm sure there will be new, and cheaper per 
TB, options to use.

> Maybe in 6 years, it won't seem like so much.
>
> I don't know if your 6-7 GB per day is for professional purposes.  If

No, that's mostly recreational ("vacation" rate) - and on a vacation 
that wouldn't be each day, but every other or 3rd day.  Depends on where 
one is and what there is to see and shoot.

I do shoot the odd assignment for people (usually w/o charge).  Those 
projects can run 200 - 1000 photos.

I used to budget a few rolls of film per day when on vacation.  Say 30 
rolls for 2 weeks.  With digital there is more room to experiment with 
almost no cost to the shooter.  Digital cameras make for much faster 
learning than film ever could - esp. since one has immediate feedback 
and can retry on the spot.

> it is, it is probably outside of what iCloud is set up to handle
> well.  If it isn't for professional use, then you are a couple
> standard deviations away from the average amateur, so again not so
> surprising that tools designed for the average user aren't incredibly
> satisfactory.

There's a big difference between "amateur" photographers and people who 
just happen to have a pretty good camera and like to photograph.

The former can be very good photographers with high end equipment, 
deliberate search for better technique and unusual things to photograph, 
etc., blah, blah.  A bit obsessed really.  They can shoot an awful lot 
of photos, esp. in the digital age and few make it to print or display.

Some wonder at my expensive cameras, lenses, lighting and so on.  I 
wonder at their motorcycles.  To each his thing.

-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#30160 — Re: iCloud, PhotoStream and backing up your photos (was Re: Apple High End DSLR? Nospam is my hero!)

OUT:
misc.phone.mobile.iphone
comp.mobile.ipad
ADDED:
rec.photo.digital

On 8/26/12   PDT 12:31 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2012.08.26 14:44 , Doug Anderson wrote:
>> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
>>
> along one day that will work for me.
>>
>> Well you must be doing something now, but 6-7 GB per day is a lot of
>> data to be adding to your disk drives and backing up, no?
>
> That would be "vacation" rate.  Usual rate is about 6 GB / week.
>
> My main camera (these days) is a FF 24 Mpix camera.  Each shot is 33 -
> 36 MB (raw) on the card.  I reduce that (losslessly) in importing them
> to the Mac by converting the images to the Adobe DNG format.  That
> reduces them to 16 - 22 MB each.  A good savings. That is the format I
> back them up in as well.
>
> So while I "shoot" 6 GB/week, I backup about 4 GB/week.

You keep far too many images.

OK, a categorical statement, but I wonder what others keep in relation 
to what they shoot. I submit no one among us can produce even 20 
excellent keepers a week for any period of time more than...... one week.

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