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Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done

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  Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2012-04-21 22:35 -0500
    Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2012-04-22 05:27 +0000
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-04-21 22:58 -0700
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2012-04-23 08:31 +1200
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2012-04-22 16:12 -0700
    Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) - 2012-04-22 17:57 +1200
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2012-04-22 07:51 -0500
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2012-04-23 08:31 +1200
          Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) - 2012-04-23 13:42 +1200
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-04-23 06:47 +1000
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) - 2012-04-23 13:32 +1200
          Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-04-23 13:30 +1000
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-04-22 12:19 -0400
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-04-23 06:50 +1000
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) - 2012-04-23 13:39 +1200
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2012-04-22 16:21 -0700
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) - 2012-04-23 13:47 +1200
          Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2012-04-22 18:58 -0700
            Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) - 2012-04-23 18:48 +1200
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2012-04-23 18:38 +1200
    Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Michelle <michelle@michelle.org> - 2012-04-22 18:21 +0000
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Koralatov <usenet@koralatov.com> - 2012-04-22 23:24 +0000
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> - 2012-04-23 16:26 +0200
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Sara <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-04-23 15:52 +0100
          Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2012-04-24 07:32 +1200
            Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> - 2012-04-24 11:18 +0200
          Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2012-04-26 00:47 -0400
            Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) - 2012-04-26 18:59 +1200
              Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2012-04-26 19:14 -0400
            Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> - 2012-04-26 11:20 +0200
              Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-04-26 20:24 +1000
    Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Invid Fan <invid@loclanet.com> - 2012-04-22 14:44 -0400
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done nospam@see.signature (Richard Maine) - 2012-04-22 13:17 -0700
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-04-23 06:55 +1000
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-04-22 17:42 -0400
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Invid Fan <invid@loclanet.com> - 2012-04-22 20:26 -0400
          Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> - 2012-04-22 21:48 -0400
            Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2012-04-22 18:59 -0700
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-04-22 18:23 -0400
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Koralatov <usenet@koralatov.com> - 2012-04-22 23:22 +0000
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Jim Janney <jjanney@shell.xmission.com> - 2012-04-23 16:43 -0600
      Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2012-04-26 00:54 -0400
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) - 2012-04-26 18:51 +1200
          Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2012-04-26 06:59 -0400
            Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) - 2012-04-27 09:31 +1200
              Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2012-04-26 21:37 -0400
                Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done nospam@see.signature (Richard Maine) - 2012-04-26 18:47 -0700
                Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-04-27 21:26 +1000
                Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done David Spencer <spencer@panix.com> - 2012-04-27 14:08 +0000
                  Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-04-27 15:26 +0100
                    Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-04-27 16:12 -0400
                Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) - 2012-05-08 03:25 +0000
        Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> - 2012-04-26 11:24 +0200
    Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2012-04-23 08:31 +1200
    Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done Koralatov <usenet@koralatov.com> - 2012-04-22 23:28 +0000
    Re: Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done jdear64 <jdear64@yahoo.com> - 2012-04-23 10:56 -0700

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#24185 — Backing Up - Why So Often Not Done

I recently spent some time with a person who although a Mac user for 
about 20 years had never performed a backup of his system but finally 
decided to do so. His thought was to do a backup once a month but I 
convinced him to do one late each evening. I had him install 
SuperDuper! to backup to a newly purchased external hard drive. The 
choice of SuperDuper! over other alternatives was simply that it is the 
one with which I am most familiar. Everything is now running fine.

This incident was by no means the first time I have helped a person set 
up a backup routine. My curiosity is what is it that seems to make 
people not realize the importance of regular backups?

-- 
James Leo Ryan - Austin, Texas

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#24186

TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> wrote:
> This incident was by no means the first time I have helped a person set 
> up a backup routine. My curiosity is what is it that seems to make 
> people not realize the importance of regular backups?

In the back of their minds, people know that they could lose everything. 
But it's something that they think will happen to somebody else and not 
them, so they don't prepare.

I have backups up the yinyang, both local and offsite. But I am 
admittedly very far behind in adequately preparing my household for an 
earthquake, despite the local goverment harping on all of us for years 
to get going with it. I know I should. I'll get around to it. 
Eventually.

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#24188

In article <jn04rq$hsc$2@dont-email.me>, me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) 
wrote:

> I have backups up the yinyang, both local and offsite. But I am 
> admittedly very far behind in adequately preparing my household for an 
> earthquake, despite the local goverment harping on all of us for years 
> to get going with it. I know I should. I'll get around to it. 
> Eventually.

It's the difference between my "life" and my "Life". We all know that 
hard drives fail. My "life" is on hard drives. My "Life" has seldom been 
affected by natural events (flood in my case affecting my employer).
I don't have earthquake insurance. I don't think a flood will reach my 
house. Mount Lassen is quite a ways away, but I could become alarmed if 
I dwelled on that sort of stuff. I won't get around to it eventually.  
Que sera sera with the angry Earth stuff.

leo

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#24209

Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> In article <jn04rq$hsc$2@dont-email.me>, me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király)
> wrote:
> 
> > I have backups up the yinyang, both local and offsite. But I am 
> > admittedly very far behind in adequately preparing my household for an
> > earthquake, despite the local goverment harping on all of us for years
> > to get going with it. I know I should. I'll get around to it. 
> > Eventually.
> 
> It's the difference between my "life" and my "Life". We all know that
> hard drives fail. My "life" is on hard drives. My "Life" has seldom been
> affected by natural events (flood in my case affecting my employer).
> I don't have earthquake insurance. I don't think a flood will reach my
> house. Mount Lassen is quite a ways away, but I could become alarmed if
> I dwelled on that sort of stuff. I won't get around to it eventually.
> Que sera sera with the angry Earth stuff.
> 
> leo

I guess when all you have to do is walk outside to see an extinct
volcano, and tiny earthquakes are a common thing to feel in the
stillness of the night, you're a little more aware of living on the
Pacific Ring of Fire, heh. I keep an offsite backup so if I survive a
natural disaster, so does my important data.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#24217

On 2012-04-22 05:27:22 +0000, Király said:

> TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> wrote:
>> This incident was by no means the first time I have helped a person set
>> up a backup routine. My curiosity is what is it that seems to make
>> people not realize the importance of regular backups?
> 
> In the back of their minds, people know that they could lose everything.
> But it's something that they think will happen to somebody else and not
> them, so they don't prepare.

Unless or until they've either lost data themselves or known someone 
firsthand who did, most people just don't think about it or realize 
that it can happen to them.

A family member lost a couple of years worth of family pictures.  All 
the rest of us rallied to find pictures of our own of them all and did 
our best to help.

And since that day, he's been running Time Machine as well as 
periodically using SuperDuper.  Furthermore, since that day, everyone 
else in the family who hadn't been doing so are all now doint at least 
Time Machine if not more.

The nice thing about Time Machine is that you just don't have to really 
do much of anything.  Especially if it's via a remote (ie. time 
capsule) so you don't even have to plug in an external drive or 
anything.

It's far from perfect - but it's trivially easy and, for the most part, 
just works.

> I have backups up the yinyang, both local and offsite. But I am
> admittedly very far behind in adequately preparing my household for an
> earthquake, despite the local goverment harping on all of us for years
> to get going with it. I know I should. I'll get around to it.
> Eventually.

Aren't those offsite backups were your earthquake plan?

(I do offsites as well via CrashPlan)

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#24187

In article <9vhcjmFs7eU1@mid.individual.net>, TaliesinSoft
<taliesinsoft@me.com> wrote:
> 
> I recently spent some time with a person who although a Mac user for 
> about 20 years had never performed a backup of his system but finally 
> decided to do so. His thought was to do a backup once a month but I 
> convinced him to do one late each evening. I had him install 
> SuperDuper! to backup to a newly purchased external hard drive. The 
> choice of SuperDuper! over other alternatives was simply that it is the 
> one with which I am most familiar. Everything is now running fine.
> 
> This incident was by no means the first time I have helped a person set 
> up a backup routine. My curiosity is what is it that seems to make 
> people not realize the importance of regular backups?

Backing up is like insurance - an expensive nuisance until you need it.  :o)
(Despite what some people like to claim, hard drives are not "cheap".)

I too have been using computers since well before the Mac existed and have
never bothered to do backups as such. I do have a few important files that
get copied onto a USB keyring drive, but I've nvever need to retrieve them
and never lost a file.

With the exception of a couple of early iMacs, I have never had a customer
who has lost their hard drive and required retrieving files from backups
either. Mice, power supplies and screens are the usual system hardware to
break down.

Helpful Harry  :o)

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#24193

On 2012-04-22 05:57:44 +0000, Helpful Harry said:

> With the exception of a couple of early iMacs, I have never had a customer
> who has lost their hard drive and required retrieving files from backups
> either. Mice, power supplies and screens are the usual system hardware to
> break down.

I hate to think of the number of times I've been in an Apple store and 
have overheard someone cringe in disbelief when they were told to 
expect to pay in the range of $2,000 to have some of their files, not 
likely all by any means, retrieved from the failed drive by a data 
recovery service.

Some years back I had the unfortunate experience when I connected a 
brand new exterhal drive to have my internal drive and another external 
drive totally wiped out as there was a power supply failure in that new 
drive. Fortunately I had a bootable backup and was able to continue on 
my way as though nothing had happened.

I will stand by my opinion that frequent and multiple backups are a 
necessary precaution against unexpected hard drive failures.

-- 
James Leo Ryan - Austin, Texas

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#24210

TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> wrote:

> On 2012-04-22 05:57:44 +0000, Helpful Harry said:
> 
> > With the exception of a couple of early iMacs, I have never had a customer
> > who has lost their hard drive and required retrieving files from backups
> > either. Mice, power supplies and screens are the usual system hardware to
> > break down.
> 
> I hate to think of the number of times I've been in an Apple store and
> have overheard someone cringe in disbelief when they were told to 
> expect to pay in the range of $2,000 to have some of their files, not
> likely all by any means, retrieved from the failed drive by a data 
> recovery service.
> 
> Some years back I had the unfortunate experience when I connected a 
> brand new exterhal drive to have my internal drive and another external
> drive totally wiped out as there was a power supply failure in that new
> drive. Fortunately I had a bootable backup and was able to continue on
> my way as though nothing had happened.
> 
> I will stand by my opinion that frequent and multiple backups are a 
> necessary precaution against unexpected hard drive failures.

I don't know what universe Harry the misogynist is living in, but I've
personally not had a mouse die on me for over 15 years (those old Apple
Puck mice were built like tanks, my first optical mouse - a MS
Intellimouse still works, and my current Razer DeathAdder seems well
built), had only a couple keyboards die, and while I've had the video
card die in two old CRT iMacs, I've yet to have a screen actually die.

OTOH I've had multiple HD failures over the years - with some lasting
over ten years, and one less than a month. You'd be a fool to count on
your HD outliving something like a mouse!
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#24228

In article <1kizwgx.1qentg01x8zznjN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 2012-04-22 05:57:44 +0000, Helpful Harry said:
> > 
> > > With the exception of a couple of early iMacs, I have never had a customer
> > > who has lost their hard drive and required retrieving files from backups
> > > either. Mice, power supplies and screens are the usual system hardware to
> > > break down.
> > 
> > I hate to think of the number of times I've been in an Apple store and
> > have overheard someone cringe in disbelief when they were told to 
> > expect to pay in the range of $2,000 to have some of their files, not
> > likely all by any means, retrieved from the failed drive by a data 
> > recovery service.
> > 
> > Some years back I had the unfortunate experience when I connected a 
> > brand new exterhal drive to have my internal drive and another external
> > drive totally wiped out as there was a power supply failure in that new
> > drive. Fortunately I had a bootable backup and was able to continue on
> > my way as though nothing had happened.
> > 
> > I will stand by my opinion that frequent and multiple backups are a 
> > necessary precaution against unexpected hard drive failures.
> 
> I don't know what universe Harry the misogynist is living in

Here we go with the idiot replies.  :o(



> , but I've
> personally not had a mouse die on me for over 15 years (those old Apple
> Puck mice were built like tanks, my first optical mouse - a MS
> Intellimouse still works, and my current Razer DeathAdder seems well
> built), had only a couple keyboards die, and while I've had the video
> card die in two old CRT iMacs, I've yet to have a screen actually die.
> 
> OTOH I've had multiple HD failures over the years - with some lasting
> over ten years, and one less than a month. You'd be a fool to count on
> your HD outliving something like a mouse!

I never said ALL mice break. Personally I've never had problems with the
Mighty Mouse, but look around and you'll see numerous complaints about the
trackball getting stuck. That's just one example.

Helpful Harry  :o)

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#24212

In article <9vid6rFvdmU1@mid.individual.net>,
 TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> wrote:

> I will stand by my opinion that frequent and multiple backups are a 
> necessary precaution against unexpected hard drive failures.

That is a very solid and reasonable opinion. I have rung my online 
betting agency and put a good fat wad of dough on this opinion winning 
the argument against the contrary opinion. I feel, T, that I will owe 
you a percentage of my winnings. Without you coming out and saying 
such a menschy thing so publicly, I would not be getting the extra 
buckeroos, so it is only fair.

-- 
dorayme

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#24226

In article <9vid6rFvdmU1@mid.individual.net>, TaliesinSoft
<taliesinsoft@me.com> wrote:
> On 2012-04-22 05:57:44 +0000, Helpful Harry said:
> 
> > With the exception of a couple of early iMacs, I have never had a customer
> > who has lost their hard drive and required retrieving files from backups
> > either. Mice, power supplies and screens are the usual system hardware to
> > break down.
> 
> I hate to think of the number of times I've been in an Apple store and 
> have overheard someone cringe in disbelief when they were told to 
> expect to pay in the range of $2,000 to have some of their files, not 
> likely all by any means, retrieved from the failed drive by a data 
> recovery service.
> 
> Some years back I had the unfortunate experience when I connected a 
> brand new exterhal drive to have my internal drive and another external 
> drive totally wiped out as there was a power supply failure in that new 
> drive. Fortunately I had a bootable backup and was able to continue on 
> my way as though nothing had happened.
> 
> I will stand by my opinion that frequent and multiple backups are a 
> necessary precaution against unexpected hard drive failures.

I'm not saying backing-up is useless nor that it should not be done. There
*ARE* many good reasons to backup, but like insurance it's "annoying" (in
both time and money) until you need actually it.

Backing-up to a local hard drive can SOMETIMES also be rather pointless. A
backup is sitting next to your computer could be stolen along with the
computer, a backup is in another room (wired or wireless connection) could
be destroyed in a fire with the computer, etc.

The fairly new addition of remote online backups are of course making
those last two examples less of a problem ... as long as you've got a fast
Internet connection and a good / no data limit.

Helpful Harry  :o)

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#24235

In article 
<HelpfulHarry-2304121332460001@203-118-187-103.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>,
 HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) wrote:

> like insurance it's "annoying" (in
> both time and money) until you need actually it.
>
 
A factory for churning out the bleeding obvious could not do better. 

> Backing-up to a local hard drive can SOMETIMES also be rather pointless. 

And now a complete failure really to understand basic logic and 
language and probability! It is not *sometimes* anything of the kind 
on the ground that some one or other eventuality actually comes about. 
The *point*, whatever comes about, remains *the same point*.

> backup is sitting next to your computer could be stolen ...

Geez!

-- 
dorayme

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#24200

On 2012-04-22 01:57 , Helpful Harry wrote:
> In article<9vhcjmFs7eU1@mid.individual.net>, TaliesinSoft
> <taliesinsoft@me.com>  wrote:
>>
>> I recently spent some time with a person who although a Mac user for
>> about 20 years had never performed a backup of his system but finally
>> decided to do so. His thought was to do a backup once a month but I
>> convinced him to do one late each evening. I had him install
>> SuperDuper! to backup to a newly purchased external hard drive. The
>> choice of SuperDuper! over other alternatives was simply that it is the
>> one with which I am most familiar. Everything is now running fine.
>>
>> This incident was by no means the first time I have helped a person set
>> up a backup routine. My curiosity is what is it that seems to make
>> people not realize the importance of regular backups?
>
> Backing up is like insurance - an expensive nuisance until you need it.  :o)
> (Despite what some people like to claim, hard drives are not "cheap".)

They are extraordinarily cheap from all points of view.  I have 7 
running on this iMac alone for a total of 10 TB.

>
> I too have been using computers since well before the Mac existed and have
> never bothered to do backups as such. I do have a few important files that
> get copied onto a USB keyring drive, but I've nvever need to retrieve them
> and never lost a file.
>
> With the exception of a couple of early iMacs, I have never had a customer
> who has lost their hard drive and required retrieving files from backups
> either. Mice, power supplies and screens are the usual system hardware to
> break down.

My string of never failing hard drives through the 90's and early 
noughts came to an end after about 2007 with a string of 3 or 4 HD 
failures within about 2 years (WinXP), thence the iMac HD failure of 
2010/11 (declining health failure/temperature related).

Some of the WinXP drives failed after many years of noble service and 
some in less than 2 years.  The last drive on my older XP system (40 GB 
IIRC) ran for over 6 years without fault as the system disk (which is a 
heavy duty assignment).  When the HD on a newer system died.  I moved 
the older disk into the newer system to be the system HD again (new 
format, OS install, recovery).

With HD's you just can't tell when they will blow.

-- 
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
  I said I didn't know."
                           -Samuel Clemens.

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#24213

In article <lPCdnRoZeeM6sgnSnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> With HD's you just can't tell when they will blow.

It's much more nerve wracking than musical chairs, at least with the 
latter, when the music stops, you get a chance to win.

-- 
dorayme

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#24227

In article <lPCdnRoZeeM6sgnSnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2012-04-22 01:57 , Helpful Harry wrote:
> > In article<9vhcjmFs7eU1@mid.individual.net>, TaliesinSoft
> > <taliesinsoft@me.com>  wrote:
> >>
> >> I recently spent some time with a person who although a Mac user for
> >> about 20 years had never performed a backup of his system but finally
> >> decided to do so. His thought was to do a backup once a month but I
> >> convinced him to do one late each evening. I had him install
> >> SuperDuper! to backup to a newly purchased external hard drive. The
> >> choice of SuperDuper! over other alternatives was simply that it is the
> >> one with which I am most familiar. Everything is now running fine.
> >>
> >> This incident was by no means the first time I have helped a person set
> >> up a backup routine. My curiosity is what is it that seems to make
> >> people not realize the importance of regular backups?
> >
> > Backing up is like insurance - an expensive nuisance until you need it.  :o)
> > (Despite what some people like to claim, hard drives are not "cheap".)
> 
> They are extraordinarily cheap from all points of view.  I have 7 
> running on this iMac alone for a total of 10 TB.

Nope. "Cheap" is a matter of opinion and depends on your point of view. 

An external hard drive might be cheap compared to a brand new $2000 iMac
or on a $-per-GB comparison it is cheaper than USB keyring drives, but it
can also be equal a weekly food bill. For many people $100+ has more
important uses.

Helpful Harry  :o)

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#24218

On 2012-04-22 05:57:44 +0000, Helpful Harry said:
> Backing up is like insurance - an expensive nuisance until you need it.  :o)
> (Despite what some people like to claim, hard drives are not "cheap".)

If you can afford a computer, you can afford an extra hard drive.  Or,
perhaps, it should be "if you can't afford an extra hard drive, you 
can't really afford that computer you thought you could afford".

And the reasoning is this - if you have anything on that computer you 
care about, you need to back it up.

There may be cheap alternatives for folks with little data (ie. DropBox 
gives you 2GB online for free, and there are other similar 
alternatives).

I've also got about 1TB of data that I (and my family) would be 
heartbroken to lose.  That data is backed up in multiple ways.

Now that people are taking most of their pictures digitally, more and 
more people have precious, irreplaceable data on their computer drives. 
 That wasn't the case a few years ago.  A few years ago, folks might 
lose some documents they were working on but probably had hard copies 
of anyway.  It's a very different world now.

For many people, a simple external drive with 1TB or less of space on 
it -- which can easily be had for well under $100 -- may be all they 
need.  So, yes, hard drives *are* cheap.  Way cheaper than the 
alternative (potential loss of irreplaceable data).

> 
> I too have been using computers since well before the Mac existed and have
> never bothered to do backups as such. I do have a few important files that
> get copied onto a USB keyring drive, but I've nvever need to retrieve them
> and never lost a file.

You're either just trolling, making crap up, or simply have nothing of 
any importance on your computers.  In all three cases, your story 
doesn't apply to most folks using computers anymore.
> 
> With the exception of a couple of early iMacs, I have never had a customer
> who has lost their hard drive and required retrieving files from backups
> either. Mice, power supplies and screens are the usual system hardware to
> break down.

I've had catastrophic failures of only three or four drives in over 20 
years.  But without backups, any one of those would have been pretty 
horrible disasters for me.

In that same time, I think I've had two mice, one keyboard, and one 
monitor die.  Hard drive fail.  Period.  Simple as that.  If your mouse 
or keyboard or monitor die, you do not lose data.  If your hard drive 
dies - and you don't have a backup - you do lose data.

So back up your data if you care about it at all.  Backups are cheap.

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#24229

In article <jn23qg$hu2$1@reader1.panix.com>, Bread
<BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:
> On 2012-04-22 05:57:44 +0000, Helpful Harry said:
> > Backing up is like insurance - an expensive nuisance until you need it.  :o)
> > (Despite what some people like to claim, hard drives are not "cheap".)
> 
> If you can afford a computer, you can afford an extra hard drive.

People can be given second-hand computers.  :o\




> > I too have been using computers since well before the Mac existed and have
> > never bothered to do backups as such. I do have a few important files that
> > get copied onto a USB keyring drive, but I've nvever need to retrieve them
> > and never lost a file.
> 
> You're either just trolling, making crap up, or simply have nothing of 
> any importance on your computers.  In all three cases, your story 
> doesn't apply to most folks using computers anymore.

I never said it applied to everyone. I simply stated my experience. As a
computer tech I've dealt with hundreds of computers over the years and an
tiny number of those have ever had hard drive issues.




> > With the exception of a couple of early iMacs, I have never had a customer
> > who has lost their hard drive and required retrieving files from backups
> > either. Mice, power supplies and screens are the usual system hardware to
> > break down.
> 
> I've had catastrophic failures of only three or four drives in over 20 
> years.  But without backups, any one of those would have been pretty 
> horrible disasters for me.
> 
> In that same time, I think I've had two mice, one keyboard, and one 
> monitor die.  Hard drive fail.  Period.  Simple as that.  If your mouse 
> or keyboard or monitor die, you do not lose data.  If your hard drive 
> dies - and you don't have a backup - you do lose data.

And that's your experience ... and yet you (and some others around here)
seem to think your experience is more valid than mine. Well, gues what,
it's not.   

Helpful Harry  :o)

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#24231

On 2012-04-23 01:47:02 +0000, Helpful Harry said:

> In article <jn23qg$hu2$1@reader1.panix.com>, Bread
> <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I've had catastrophic failures of only three or four drives in over 20
>> years.  But without backups, any one of those would have been pretty
>> horrible disasters for me.
>> 
>> In that same time, I think I've had two mice, one keyboard, and one
>> monitor die.  Hard drive fail.  Period.  Simple as that.  If your mouse
>> or keyboard or monitor die, you do not lose data.  If your hard drive
>> dies - and you don't have a backup - you do lose data.
> 
> And that's your experience ... and yet you (and some others around here)
> seem to think your experience is more valid than mine. Well, gues what,
> it's not.

Because if I (and the others - notice that you're pretty much the only 
one here advocating not backing up?) are wrong, and the hard drives 
never die, the cost of having backups was small.

However, if you are wrong and the hard drives crash, the cost could be 
tremendous.

And you're wrong.  It's not "if" a hard drive crashes on someone.  It's "when".

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#24243

In article <jn2d0c$ibm$1@reader1.panix.com>, Bread
<BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:
> On 2012-04-23 01:47:02 +0000, Helpful Harry said:
> > In article <jn23qg$hu2$1@reader1.panix.com>, Bread
> > <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:
> >> 
> >> I've had catastrophic failures of only three or four drives in over 20
> >> years.  But without backups, any one of those would have been pretty
> >> horrible disasters for me.
> >> 
> >> In that same time, I think I've had two mice, one keyboard, and one
> >> monitor die.  Hard drive fail.  Period.  Simple as that.  If your mouse
> >> or keyboard or monitor die, you do not lose data.  If your hard drive
> >> dies - and you don't have a backup - you do lose data.
> > 
> > And that's your experience ... and yet you (and some others around here)
> > seem to think your experience is more valid than mine. Well, gues what,
> > it's not.
> 
> Because if I (and the others - notice that you're pretty much the only 
> one here advocating not backing up?) are wrong, and the hard drives 
> never die, the cost of having backups was small.
> 
> However, if you are wrong and the hard drives crash, the cost could be 
> tremendous.
> 
> And you're wrong.  It's not "if" a hard drive crashes on someone.  
> It's "when".

Try to actually read what I said, rather than what you THINK I said ...
nowhere at all did I "advocate not backing up", nowhere did I say "hard
drives never die".

I also never even remotely said "the cost of having backups was small".

I simply said that I have rarely come across hard drive issues in many
years of computer use.

Helpful Harry  :o)

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#24242

Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:

> On 2012-04-22 05:57:44 +0000, Helpful Harry said:
[snip]
> > I too have been using computers since well before the Mac existed and have
> > never bothered to do backups as such. I do have a few important files that
> > get copied onto a USB keyring drive, but I've nvever need to retrieve them
> > and never lost a file.
> 
> You're either just trolling, making crap up, or simply have nothing of
> any importance on your computers.  In all three cases, your story 
> doesn't apply to most folks using computers anymore.

Aye, if you used computers during the floppy era and failed to backup,
you lost data. It is conceivable someone might get _extremely_ lucky and
never have a HD die* in the past 25 or so years they've been common, but
to never have a FLOPPY die? I call bullshit on that.

*It's not unheard of for HDs to sometimes last ten years or more - I
have one. But it is rare, and obviously the more HDs you've owned, the
greater chance you've had failures.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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