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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #57175

Re: Snow Leopard retires..

From Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Newsgroups comp.sys.mac.system
Subject Re: Snow Leopard retires..
Date 2014-02-27 18:34 +0000
Organization People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates
Message-ID <bn9ep2Fesq3U3@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References <gratefuldead-F3D5B4.16535327022014@newszilla.xs4all.nl> <270220141139122264%star@sky.net>

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On 2014-02-27, Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:
> Stephen:
>> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9246609/Apple_retires_Snow_Leopard
>> _from_support_leaves_1_in_5_Macs_vulnerable_to_attacks
>
> It could be argued that persons who insist on using an OS that is three
> generations obsolete are the ones leaving their Macs vulnerable to
> attacks.

Some of us are still using PowerPC-based Macs, believe it or not. : )
Not that I'm complaining about the lack of updates. I'm well accustomed
to Apple's progress and habit of leaving the old in favor of the new. So
this news comes as absolutely no shock or disappointment to me,
personally.

> Anyway, why do I never hear about these alleged attacks on the Mac?
> Newspapers, the music industry, the movie industry, publishing,
> photography, design, television, big science--all big Mac users and all
> attractive to hackers, yet I never hear about any of them being hacked
> Windows-style. Makes me wonder if the risk is still overstated.

Indeed. My reaction: "Meh."

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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Thread

Snow Leopard retires.. Stephen <gratefuldead@xs4all.nl> - 2014-02-27 16:53 +0100
  Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Stephen <gratefuldead@xs4all.nl> - 2014-02-27 17:00 +0100
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> - 2014-02-27 18:27 +0000
      Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Stephen <gratefuldead@xs4all.nl> - 2014-02-27 19:50 +0100
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-27 17:13 -0500
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2014-02-28 14:08 -0800
  Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-02-27 11:39 -0500
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Stephen <gratefuldead@xs4all.nl> - 2014-02-27 18:41 +0100
      Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-27 18:35 +0000
      Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Howard.not@home.com (Howard) - 2014-02-27 23:26 +0000
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-27 18:34 +0000
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2014-02-27 13:03 -0600
      Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-27 21:22 +0000
      Re: Snow Leopard retires.. David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2014-03-03 17:53 +0000
        Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-03-04 15:37 -0600
          Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-04 22:20 +0000
            Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-03-05 12:51 -0600
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-05 22:33 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-03-05 17:50 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-05 23:59 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-03-06 07:40 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2014-03-06 18:49 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-03-06 17:06 -0600
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-07 02:54 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Ted Lee <tmplee@gmail.com> - 2014-03-07 11:41 -0600
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-03-06 17:03 -0600
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-03-05 16:54 -0600
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-06 01:20 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-03-06 17:01 -0600
        Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-07 16:35 -0500
          Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-03-08 14:25 -0600
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Howard.not@home.com (Howard) - 2014-02-27 23:26 +0000
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-02-28 19:53 -0600
      Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-02-28 17:58 -0800
  Re: Snow Leopard retires.. John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-02-27 20:50 +0000
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-02-27 21:44 +0000
      Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-27 18:36 -0500
        Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-28 00:49 +0000
          Re: Snow Leopard retires.. bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2014-02-27 20:45 -0800
            Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-28 10:43 +0000
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-02-28 19:52 -0600
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-01 06:41 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-03-01 15:29 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-01 11:42 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-01 18:09 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-02 11:38 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-02 17:28 +1300
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-02 11:40 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-02 12:23 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Ted Lee <tmplee@gmail.com> - 2014-03-02 18:17 -0600
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-02 19:28 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-03 18:39 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-03 13:25 +1300
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-03-03 00:47 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-03-02 20:29 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-03 03:11 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-03 16:52 +1300
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-03-03 04:06 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-04 12:02 +1300
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-03 18:38 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-04 12:55 +1300
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-03 19:51 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-03-04 01:32 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2014-03-05 12:33 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-03-05 18:11 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-03-04 00:18 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-03-04 06:43 -0800
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-04 17:04 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-03-04 17:59 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-05 12:49 +1300
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Kit <kitzyme@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-03-04 14:55 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-04 17:05 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-05 12:49 +1300
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dob@trwxxa-2.local (David Blanchard) - 2014-03-09 18:16 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-03-09 21:56 -0400
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dob@trwxxa-2.local (David Blanchard) - 2014-03-10 16:45 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-01 18:08 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-02 17:28 +1300
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2014-03-01 12:50 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-01 18:21 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2014-03-02 12:16 -0500
            Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-02-28 11:02 -0500
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2014-02-28 17:25 +0100
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-02-28 18:38 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-02-28 20:47 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2014-02-28 18:37 -0800
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Ronnie Bateman <OurOwnRonnieBateman@earthlinc.net> - 2014-02-28 13:09 -0800
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-02-28 21:57 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-02-28 19:52 -0600
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-01 08:08 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-02-28 20:49 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-02-28 19:50 -0600
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-03-01 13:29 +1100
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2014-03-01 12:48 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-02-28 21:23 -0800
            Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-02-28 19:50 -0600
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-01 06:40 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-01 09:31 -0500
            Re: Snow Leopard retires.. RonTheGuy@null.invalid (Ron) - 2014-03-01 19:24 -0800
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-03-01 19:44 -0800
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-01 23:38 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-02 17:51 +1300
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-03-02 11:25 -0800
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-02 05:21 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-03-02 01:59 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-02 02:39 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-02 07:49 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-02 21:34 +1300
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-02 17:59 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-03 13:25 +1300
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-03 03:14 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-03 17:05 +1300
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-03-02 20:12 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-03 03:22 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-03 04:29 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-03-02 20:02 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-03 03:17 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-03-03 03:47 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-02 23:02 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-03-03 05:12 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-03 00:39 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2014-03-03 07:27 +0100
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-03 01:29 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2014-03-04 06:51 +0100
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-03-03 04:11 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-03 04:27 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-03-03 05:09 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-03 16:16 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-03-03 16:29 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-03 12:35 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-03 20:28 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2014-03-04 22:51 +0100
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-04 22:19 +0000
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-01 23:38 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-03-02 01:56 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-02 02:39 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-02 07:50 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-03-02 08:05 -0700
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-03 13:25 +1300
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2014-03-01 21:13 -0800
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-02 05:20 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-03-02 10:07 -0600
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-02 16:28 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-03-03 09:13 -0600
          Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2014-02-28 17:23 +0100
          Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Ronnie Bateman <OurOwnRonnieBateman@earthlinc.net> - 2014-02-28 13:07 -0800
        Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-02-28 19:49 -0600
          Re: Snow Leopard retires.. David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2014-03-01 12:30 -0500
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-02-28 12:04 +1300
      Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-27 18:40 -0500
        Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-02-28 19:48 -0600
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2014-03-01 12:22 -0500
      Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-02 11:54 -0500
      Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-02 11:59 -0500
  Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-27 18:31 -0500
  Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-06 12:20 +0000
    Re: Snow Leopard retires.. bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2014-03-06 09:39 -0800
      Re: Snow Leopard retires.. bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2014-03-06 10:57 -0800
        Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-06 19:05 +0000
          Re: Snow Leopard retires.. bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2014-03-06 11:41 -0800
          Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-07 12:12 +1300
            Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-07 02:47 +0000
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-07 03:13 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-07 09:38 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-07 14:43 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-03-07 07:50 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-07 14:45 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-03-07 11:24 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-07 16:39 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-03-07 16:43 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-03-07 18:06 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-08 03:37 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-07 15:04 +0000
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-07 19:37 +1300
              Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-03-07 18:38 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-07 19:21 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-03-08 00:31 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-07 19:36 -0500
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-03-08 01:35 +0000
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-03-08 14:25 -0600
                Re: Snow Leopard retires.. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-08 20:38 +0000

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