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Local Mail

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  Local Mail Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2014-01-19 11:35 -0500
    Re: Local Mail Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2014-01-19 11:40 -0500
    Re: Local Mail Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-19 11:50 -0800
      Re: Local Mail Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2014-01-19 15:19 -0500
        Re: Local Mail Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-19 15:16 -0800
          Re: Local Mail Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2014-01-20 18:35 -0500
            Re: Local Mail Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2014-01-21 10:42 -0500
              Re: Local Mail Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-01-21 11:07 -0500
                Re: Local Mail Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2014-01-21 12:02 -0500
              Re: Local Mail Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-22 02:25 -0800
                Re: Local Mail Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-01-22 10:24 -0500
                  Re: Local Mail Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-22 16:22 +0000
                    Re: Local Mail Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-01-22 12:22 -0500
                      Re: Local Mail Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-22 18:33 +0000
                        Re: Local Mail Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-01-22 14:40 -0500
                          Re: Local Mail Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-22 22:16 +0000
                Re: Local Mail billy@MIX.COM - 2014-01-24 18:18 +0000
            Re: Local Mail Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-01-21 10:46 -0500
              Re: Local Mail Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2014-01-21 11:56 -0500
                Re: Local Mail Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-01-21 17:47 -0500
                  Re: Local Mail billy@MIX.COM - 2014-01-24 18:12 +0000
                    Re: Local Mail Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-01-24 14:16 -0500
                    Re: Local Mail Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-25 09:57 +0000
                      Re: Local Mail billy@MIX.COM - 2014-01-27 16:48 +0000
                        Re: Local Mail Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-01-27 12:50 -0500
                          Re: Local Mail billy@MIX.COM - 2014-01-27 19:31 +0000
                        Re: Local Mail Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-27 18:29 +0000
                          Re: Local Mail billy@MIX.COM - 2014-01-27 19:27 +0000
                            Re: Local Mail Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-28 00:27 +0000
                              Re: Local Mail billy@MIX.COM - 2014-01-28 05:58 +0000
                                Re: Local Mail Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-28 16:46 +0000
        Re: Local Mail Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-19 23:58 +0000
          Re: Local Mail Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2014-01-20 19:07 -0500
      Re: Local Mail Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-19 21:26 +0000

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#20511 — Local Mail

Every time I upgrade the OS I have to recreate and reinstall local mail, 
which is a pain.  Among other things I have to reinstall qpopper, edit 
postfix and reload org.postfix.master.plist in LaunchDaemons.  I think 
the aliases file has to be checked and reinstalled as well.  There may 
be some other things but I am working from memory.

I use local mail pretty much only for daily, weekly and monthly system 
mail, a script that checks to see if any man pages need to be updated 
and output from the calendar program.

My calendar stuff could be moved to Things and I could probably do 
something with my man page checker once I remember what runs it.  The 
problem is the system mail.

How do other people get that without running local mail on their computers?

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#20512

On 1/19/14 11:35 AM, Robert Peirce wrote:
> Every time I upgrade the OS I have to recreate and reinstall local mail,
> which is a pain.  Among other things I have to reinstall qpopper, edit
> postfix and reload org.postfix.master.plist in LaunchDaemons.  I think
> the aliases file has to be checked and reinstalled as well.  There may
> be some other things but I am working from memory.
>
> I use local mail pretty much only for daily, weekly and monthly system
> mail, a script that checks to see if any man pages need to be updated
> and output from the calendar program.
>
> My calendar stuff could be moved to Things and I could probably do
> something with my man page checker once I remember what runs it.  The
> problem is the system mail.
>
> How do other people get that without running local mail on their computers?

My doc checker is run as part of periodic.daily.  Now I can't remember 
what makes periodic run.  I think it is probably a system LaunchDaemon. 
  However, periodic is what generates the system reports among other 
things.  As I recall that is simple enough to get started.  It is 
routing the output to non-local mail that is the problem.

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#20521

In article <lbguso$k3s$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
 Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> Every time I upgrade the OS I have to recreate and reinstall local mail, 
> which is a pain.  Among other things I have to reinstall qpopper, edit 
> postfix and reload org.postfix.master.plist in LaunchDaemons.  I think 
> the aliases file has to be checked and reinstalled as well.  There may 
> be some other things but I am working from memory.
> 
> I use local mail pretty much only for daily, weekly and monthly system 
> mail, a script that checks to see if any man pages need to be updated 
> and output from the calendar program.
> 
> My calendar stuff could be moved to Things and I could probably do 
> something with my man page checker once I remember what runs it.  The 
> problem is the system mail.
> 
> How do other people get that without running local mail on their computers?

Your use-case is outside the marketing profile of the typical user who 
buys and runs a MacOS system.  Most don't bother setting up local mail. 
Indeed, most ISPs when finding a mail server on their customer networks 
will either block port 25 if they haven't already, or cancel their 
account.  The T&C's of Service for consumer accounts specifically 
prohibit running a server.

Is it such a big deal to keep the setup information on your mail server 
in an Disaster Recovery document along with your configurations for 
Apache, MySQL, php, perl, and any command-line software installed in 
/usr/local/bin?  When I went from 10.6.8 to 10.8, I was shocked at how 
much the Migration assistant kept around.  My perl, php, and /usr/local 
stuff was fine. I had to setup mail, Apache and MySQL, but that was it.

This all seems pretty obvious to me, as a sysadmin.  Upgrades and what 
they screw up are part and parcel of living with computer systems.  
Maintaining documentation on your system so you can recover and recreate 
it seems like a no brainer.

If you're going to run a server on your system, you'll have to maintain 
it in between software upgrades. That's a fact of life.  Now man up and 
admin your servers.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#20523

On 1/19/14 2:50 PM, Michael Vilain wrote:
> In article <lbguso$k3s$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
> If you're going to run a server on your system, you'll have to maintain
> it in between software upgrades. That's a fact of life.  Now man up and
> admin your servers.
>

That's sort of the the problem.  I'm not running a server.  It is just a 
single user computer.  Unfortunately, I came to Mac OS X from Unix, via 
NEXTSTEP, and calendar and local mail are legacy items.

The good thing is I only have to worry about it when I move to a new 
release of OS X.  The bad thing is the same.  I forget what I did and 
where because it only happens once every year or two.

Furthermore, some day Apple is going to change something so what I am 
doing won't work anymore and I won't know how to fix it.  I keep a 
"recipe" that I think is relatively complete of all the steps I need to 
take to get my legacy stuff working, but that assumes Apple doesn't 
change something.  I am long ago retired and have not been on top of the 
latest stuff for quite some time.

Faced with one more upgrade and the realization that Apple doesn't 
really want me doing this stuff, I am trying to figure out how to move 
everything to something OS X will like.  This seems to revolve around 
not using local mail.  I think everything else will be okay if I can 
figure out how to route it through OS X Mail.

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#20534

In article <lbhc0r$7si$1@dont-email.me>,
 Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> On 1/19/14 2:50 PM, Michael Vilain wrote:
> > In article <lbguso$k3s$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
> > If you're going to run a server on your system, you'll have to maintain
> > it in between software upgrades. That's a fact of life.  Now man up and
> > admin your servers.
> >
> 
> That's sort of the the problem.  I'm not running a server.  It is just a 
> single user computer.  Unfortunately, I came to Mac OS X from Unix, via 
> NEXTSTEP, and calendar and local mail are legacy items.
> 
> The good thing is I only have to worry about it when I move to a new 
> release of OS X.  The bad thing is the same.  I forget what I did and 
> where because it only happens once every year or two.
> 
> Furthermore, some day Apple is going to change something so what I am 
> doing won't work anymore and I won't know how to fix it.  I keep a 
> "recipe" that I think is relatively complete of all the steps I need to 
> take to get my legacy stuff working, but that assumes Apple doesn't 
> change something.  I am long ago retired and have not been on top of the 
> latest stuff for quite some time.
> 
> Faced with one more upgrade and the realization that Apple doesn't 
> really want me doing this stuff, I am trying to figure out how to move 
> everything to something OS X will like.  This seems to revolve around 
> not using local mail.  I think everything else will be okay if I can 
> figure out how to route it through OS X Mail.

Because you 'don't remember' is the problem.  I keep track of changes I 
make to my system as I go and keep a system recovery document in a 
dropbox folder that outlines what I've added or changed to an existing 
system.  At least once in the major version of a release, I'll wipe the 
system completely (after backups of course) and restore from that 
document to test it's accuracy.  Anything I missed gets added to the 
document.  That also cleans up any kruft from the prior migration.

A server is a process or machine that maintains it's own environment and 
data independent of other systems.  You run mail locally through a mail 
server which makes your system a server.  Apple Mail or the mail client 
of your choice is only responsible for READING mail. postfix or sendmail 
or exchange are mail transport agents that run to move mail between 
systems.  Running one of these programs makes your system a server in 
the eyes of your ISP.  Hosting your own web site on your machine using 
Apache makes your system a server in the eyes of your ISP.

http://pc.net/helpcenter/answers/purpose_of_a_server

And YES, Apple (and most ISPs) don't want you running a server on your 
local system.  Let me define a server, since you seem to thing you're 
not running one when, indeed, you are.

Apple is moving towards the Cloud model of computing.  As a sysadmin, I 
have to laugh.  The 'Cloud' is nothing more than a datacenter with all 
the mechanisms to handle the hardware and infrastructure to store the 
data.  Before the Cloud, Apple's Mac.com users could store their email 
in their .mac/.me account up to the 100Mb quota (remember quotas?).  
Yahoo and Hotmail users had similar data centers with infrastructure to 
allow you to store email and calendars and contacts.  With the advent of 
cheap disk and hardware, the datacenter became the 'Cloud'.  

I'd migrate away from anything that won't allow you to keep a private 
copy of your data.  I'm inherently paranoid so I don't trust the Cloud 
since it's one network failure away from being useless.  I trust what I 
can backup and restore myself.

I keep my Calendar in Google Calendar and have abandoned Apple's 
Calendar entirely.  I use BusyCal as my Calendar app.  I've also heard 
good things about Fantasical.

I keep my Contacts locally and upload them to Google Contacts so they 
update to my phone. There doesn't seem to be a good Apple <--> Google 
contact synchronization app.  With about 300 contacts, I can cope.

Mail is through multiple services and mailboxes. I pay for webhosting 
which costs about $120/year.  That comes with almost unlimited web 
space, databases, and email accounts where I can set the storage limits.

By running you own mail server, you become the mail admin for your box. 
Sounds like you don't want to do that.  Setup Goggle Mail to be the mail 
ISP for your domain.  That way you aren't troubled by any of the local 
mail server issues.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#20573

On 1/19/14 6:16 PM, Michael Vilain wrote:
> In article <lbhc0r$7si$1@dont-email.me>,
> Because you 'don't remember' is the problem.  I keep track of changes I
> make to my system as I go and keep a system recovery document in a
> dropbox folder that outlines what I've added or changed to an existing
> system.

I went looking and I do have such a document.  It was in Downloads/_Unix 
and Reloads in a file called INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS.txt.
But that is the problem.  I use it so infrequently I have trouble 
remembering where it is, although Downloads ought to be pretty obvious!!

> A server is a process or machine that maintains it's own environment and
> data independent of other systems.  You run mail locally through a mail
> server which makes your system a server.

My apologies.  I tend to think of servers as an entire computer system 
rather than something like mail that is running on a single user computer.

Be that as it may, I still would like to simplify my life by minimizing 
the amount of non OS X stuff I am trying to do.  Granted, I use a lot of 
ksh and awk scripts and I hope that never goes away, but it is at the 
terminal level, not buried in the system.

One solution I picked up from Google was to put an external email 
address in a .forward file but that didn't work.  Bob@peirce-family.com 
produced an error message that said "(connect to 
mx.peirce-family.com[66.96.142.50]:25: Operation timed out)
                                          bob@peirce-family.com"
And I have no idea what to do about that.  I don't recognize the IP 
address, but I think port 25 is a standard port for smtp.

At least the present system is working.

> By running you own mail server, you become the mail admin for your box.
> Sounds like you don't want to do that.  Setup Goggle Mail to be the mail
> ISP for your domain.  That way you aren't troubled by any of the local
> mail server issues.
>

I know nothing about Google Mail.  I already send mail through 
peirce-family.com, which is hosted on an external hosting service, and 
verizon.net but I don't know how to route local mail through those 
paths, other than the above mentioned .forward file idea.

As is probably obvious I am not a trained system administrator.  I 
maintain my own computer as best I can but that means I run into things 
I don't know anything about.  Then I have to go to you guys for help.

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#20594

On 1/20/14 6:35 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
> One solution I picked up from Google was to put an external email
> address in a .forward file but that didn't work.  Bob@peirce-family.com
> produced an error message that said "(connect to
> mx.peirce-family.com[66.96.142.50]:25: Operation timed out)
>                                           bob@peirce-family.com"
> And I have no idea what to do about that.  I don't recognize the IP
> address, but I think port 25 is a standard port for smtp.

I tried the same thing on my wife's computer which does not have local 
mail.  She is still running 10.6.  I did not get any error messages so 
the obvious assumption is the test message went out.  However, it was 
never delivered, so I have to think it never really went out or if it 
did there was something wrong with it.  That probably makes this a 
dead-end idea unless somebody knows how to make it work properly

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#20597

In article <lbm4h4$64d$1@dont-email.me>,
 Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> On 1/20/14 6:35 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
> > One solution I picked up from Google was to put an external email
> > address in a .forward file but that didn't work.  Bob@peirce-family.com
> > produced an error message that said "(connect to
> > mx.peirce-family.com[66.96.142.50]:25: Operation timed out)
> >                                           bob@peirce-family.com"
> > And I have no idea what to do about that.  I don't recognize the IP
> > address, but I think port 25 is a standard port for smtp.
> 
> I tried the same thing on my wife's computer which does not have local 
> mail.  She is still running 10.6.  I did not get any error messages so 
> the obvious assumption is the test message went out.  However, it was 
> never delivered, so I have to think it never really went out or if it 
> did there was something wrong with it.  That probably makes this a 
> dead-end idea unless somebody knows how to make it work properly

The .forward file is processed by the mail server. If you're not running 
a mail server on her computer, the file is totally ignored.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#20601

On 1/21/14 11:07 AM, Barry Margolin wrote:
> The .forward file is processed by the mail server. If you're not running
> a mail server on her computer, the file is totally ignored.

That explains why I get messages in mailq on my machine and not on hers.

It appears from your later post that even if I have a mail server 
running on the machine access to port 25 on the ISP machine may be 
blocked.  However, if I have to set the server up anyhow, adding qpopper 
is trivial.

In other words, there doesn't seem to be an easier way to transmit local 
mail.  Darn!

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#20618

In article <lbm4h4$64d$1@dont-email.me>,
 Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> On 1/20/14 6:35 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
> > One solution I picked up from Google was to put an external email
> > address in a .forward file but that didn't work.  Bob@peirce-family.com
> > produced an error message that said "(connect to
> > mx.peirce-family.com[66.96.142.50]:25: Operation timed out)
> >                                           bob@peirce-family.com"
> > And I have no idea what to do about that.  I don't recognize the IP
> > address, but I think port 25 is a standard port for smtp.
> 
> I tried the same thing on my wife's computer which does not have local 
> mail.  She is still running 10.6.  I did not get any error messages so 
> the obvious assumption is the test message went out.  However, it was 
> never delivered, so I have to think it never really went out or if it 
> did there was something wrong with it.  That probably makes this a 
> dead-end idea unless somebody knows how to make it work properly

The log files will tell you if it actually left the machine.

If you're stumbling with setting up Postfix properly, you should back 
away slowly from the machine and just leave it.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20624

In article <vilain-C3BB02.02252522012014@news.individual.net>,
 Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> In article <lbm4h4$64d$1@dont-email.me>,
>  Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 1/20/14 6:35 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
> > > One solution I picked up from Google was to put an external email
> > > address in a .forward file but that didn't work.  Bob@peirce-family.com
> > > produced an error message that said "(connect to
> > > mx.peirce-family.com[66.96.142.50]:25: Operation timed out)
> > >                                           bob@peirce-family.com"
> > > And I have no idea what to do about that.  I don't recognize the IP
> > > address, but I think port 25 is a standard port for smtp.
> > 
> > I tried the same thing on my wife's computer which does not have local 
> > mail.  She is still running 10.6.  I did not get any error messages so 
> > the obvious assumption is the test message went out.  However, it was 
> > never delivered, so I have to think it never really went out or if it 
> > did there was something wrong with it.  That probably makes this a 
> > dead-end idea unless somebody knows how to make it work properly
> 
> The log files will tell you if it actually left the machine.

Log files of what? If there's no mail server running on his wife's 
computer, there's nothing to log.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20628

On 2014-01-22, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <vilain-C3BB02.02252522012014@news.individual.net>,
>  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <lbm4h4$64d$1@dont-email.me>,
>>  Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > On 1/20/14 6:35 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
>> > > One solution I picked up from Google was to put an external email
>> > > address in a .forward file but that didn't work.  Bob@peirce-family.com
>> > > produced an error message that said "(connect to
>> > > mx.peirce-family.com[66.96.142.50]:25: Operation timed out)
>> > >                                           bob@peirce-family.com"
>> > > And I have no idea what to do about that.  I don't recognize the IP
>> > > address, but I think port 25 is a standard port for smtp.
>> > 
>> > I tried the same thing on my wife's computer which does not have local 
>> > mail.  She is still running 10.6.  I did not get any error messages so 
>> > the obvious assumption is the test message went out.  However, it was 
>> > never delivered, so I have to think it never really went out or if it 
>> > did there was something wrong with it.  That probably makes this a 
>> > dead-end idea unless somebody knows how to make it work properly
>> 
>> The log files will tell you if it actually left the machine.
>
> Log files of what? If there's no mail server running on his wife's 
> computer, there's nothing to log.

That would depend on what facility he's using to send the message. There
may be something in the system log indicating a failure to send, for
instance.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#20633

In article <bka9ifF6jn8U4@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2014-01-22, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > In article <vilain-C3BB02.02252522012014@news.individual.net>,
> >  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <lbm4h4$64d$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>  Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> > On 1/20/14 6:35 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
> >> > > One solution I picked up from Google was to put an external email
> >> > > address in a .forward file but that didn't work.  Bob@peirce-family.com
> >> > > produced an error message that said "(connect to
> >> > > mx.peirce-family.com[66.96.142.50]:25: Operation timed out)
> >> > >                                           bob@peirce-family.com"
> >> > > And I have no idea what to do about that.  I don't recognize the IP
> >> > > address, but I think port 25 is a standard port for smtp.
> >> > 
> >> > I tried the same thing on my wife's computer which does not have local 
> >> > mail.  She is still running 10.6.  I did not get any error messages so 
> >> > the obvious assumption is the test message went out.  However, it was 
> >> > never delivered, so I have to think it never really went out or if it 
> >> > did there was something wrong with it.  That probably makes this a 
> >> > dead-end idea unless somebody knows how to make it work properly
> >> 
> >> The log files will tell you if it actually left the machine.
> >
> > Log files of what? If there's no mail server running on his wife's 
> > computer, there's nothing to log.
> 
> That would depend on what facility he's using to send the message. There
> may be something in the system log indicating a failure to send, for
> instance.

He's not sending a message. The .forward file is only used when the 
local mail server is delivering a message that has been received.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#20634

On 2014-01-22, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <bka9ifF6jn8U4@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-01-22, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> > In article <vilain-C3BB02.02252522012014@news.individual.net>,
>> >  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article <lbm4h4$64d$1@dont-email.me>,
>> >>  Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> > On 1/20/14 6:35 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
>> >> > > One solution I picked up from Google was to put an external
>> >> > > email address in a .forward file but that didn't work.
>> >> > > Bob@peirce-family.com produced an error message that said
>> >> > > "(connect to mx.peirce-family.com[66.96.142.50]:25: Operation
>> >> > > timed out) bob@peirce-family.com" And I have no idea what to
>> >> > > do about that.  I don't recognize the IP address, but I think
>> >> > > port 25 is a standard port for smtp.
>> >> > 
>> >> > I tried the same thing on my wife's computer which does not have local 
>> >> > mail.  She is still running 10.6.  I did not get any error messages so 
>> >> > the obvious assumption is the test message went out.  However, it was 
>> >> > never delivered, so I have to think it never really went out or if it 
>> >> > did there was something wrong with it.  That probably makes this a 
>> >> > dead-end idea unless somebody knows how to make it work properly
>> >> 
>> >> The log files will tell you if it actually left the machine.
>> >
>> > Log files of what? If there's no mail server running on his wife's 
>> > computer, there's nothing to log.
>> 
>> That would depend on what facility he's using to send the message. There
>> may be something in the system log indicating a failure to send, for
>> instance.
>
> He's not sending a message. The .forward file is only used when the 
> local mail server is delivering a message that has been received.

Huh? He says: "I did not get any error messages so the obvious
assumption is the test message went out.". He's definitely sending a
message from a machine. Michael Vilain's comment that the log files
might tell him if the message actually left the machine is correct.  As
far as I can see, nobody said the log file would be on his wife's
machine - that seems to have come from you.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#20635

In article <bkah86F8a1kU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2014-01-22, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > In article <bka9ifF6jn8U4@mid.individual.net>,
> >  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2014-01-22, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> >> > In article <vilain-C3BB02.02252522012014@news.individual.net>,
> >> >  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In article <lbm4h4$64d$1@dont-email.me>,
> >> >>  Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
> >> >> 
> >> >> > On 1/20/14 6:35 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
> >> >> > > One solution I picked up from Google was to put an external
> >> >> > > email address in a .forward file but that didn't work.
> >> >> > > Bob@peirce-family.com produced an error message that said
> >> >> > > "(connect to mx.peirce-family.com[66.96.142.50]:25: Operation
> >> >> > > timed out) bob@peirce-family.com" And I have no idea what to
> >> >> > > do about that.  I don't recognize the IP address, but I think
> >> >> > > port 25 is a standard port for smtp.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > I tried the same thing on my wife's computer which does not have 
> >> >> > local 
> >> >> > mail.  She is still running 10.6.  I did not get any error messages 
> >> >> > so 
> >> >> > the obvious assumption is the test message went out.  However, it was 
> >> >> > never delivered, so I have to think it never really went out or if it 
> >> >> > did there was something wrong with it.  That probably makes this a 
> >> >> > dead-end idea unless somebody knows how to make it work properly
> >> >> 
> >> >> The log files will tell you if it actually left the machine.
> >> >
> >> > Log files of what? If there's no mail server running on his wife's 
> >> > computer, there's nothing to log.
> >> 
> >> That would depend on what facility he's using to send the message. There
> >> may be something in the system log indicating a failure to send, for
> >> instance.
> >
> > He's not sending a message. The .forward file is only used when the 
> > local mail server is delivering a message that has been received.
> 
> Huh? He says: "I did not get any error messages so the obvious
> assumption is the test message went out.". He's definitely sending a
> message from a machine. Michael Vilain's comment that the log files
> might tell him if the message actually left the machine is correct.  As
> far as I can see, nobody said the log file would be on his wife's
> machine - that seems to have come from you.

Good point.

Now I'm wondering where he sent it *from* and *to*.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#20641

On 2014-01-22, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <bkah86F8a1kU1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-01-22, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> > In article <bka9ifF6jn8U4@mid.individual.net>,
>> >  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2014-01-22, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> >> > In article <vilain-C3BB02.02252522012014@news.individual.net>,
>> >> >  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> In article <lbm4h4$64d$1@dont-email.me>,
>> >> >>  Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> > On 1/20/14 6:35 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
>> >> >> > > One solution I picked up from Google was to put an external
>> >> >> > > email address in a .forward file but that didn't work.
>> >> >> > > Bob@peirce-family.com produced an error message that said
>> >> >> > > "(connect to mx.peirce-family.com[66.96.142.50]:25:
>> >> >> > > Operation timed out) bob@peirce-family.com" And I have no
>> >> >> > > idea what to do about that.  I don't recognize the IP
>> >> >> > > address, but I think port 25 is a standard port for smtp.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > I tried the same thing on my wife's computer which does not
>> >> >> > have local mail.  She is still running 10.6.  I did not get
>> >> >> > any error messages so the obvious assumption is the test
>> >> >> > message went out.  However, it was never delivered, so I have
>> >> >> > to think it never really went out or if it did there was
>> >> >> > something wrong with it.  That probably makes this a dead-end
>> >> >> > idea unless somebody knows how to make it work properly
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> The log files will tell you if it actually left the machine.
>> >> >
>> >> > Log files of what? If there's no mail server running on his
>> >> > wife's computer, there's nothing to log.
>> >> 
>> >> That would depend on what facility he's using to send the message.
>> >> There may be something in the system log indicating a failure to
>> >> send, for instance.
>> >
>> > He's not sending a message. The .forward file is only used when the
>> > local mail server is delivering a message that has been received.
>> 
>> Huh? He says: "I did not get any error messages so the obvious
>> assumption is the test message went out.". He's definitely sending a
>> message from a machine. Michael Vilain's comment that the log files
>> might tell him if the message actually left the machine is correct.
>> As far as I can see, nobody said the log file would be on his wife's
>> machine - that seems to have come from you.
>
> Good point.
>
> Now I'm wondering where he sent it *from* and *to*.

Me too!!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#20668

Michael Vilain <vilain@nospamcop.net> writes:

> If you're stumbling with setting up Postfix properly, you should back 
> away slowly from the machine and just leave it.

Or, spend US$25 for some help -

http://cutedgesystems.com/software/MailServeForMountainLion/
http://cutedgesystems.com/software/MailServeForMountainLion/Manual/Outgoing/

Billy Y..
-- 
        sub     #'9+1   ,r0             ; convert ascii byte
	add     #9.+1   ,r0             ; to an integer
	bcc     20$                     ; not a number

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#20595

In article <lbkbra$73e$1@dont-email.me>,
 Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> One solution I picked up from Google was to put an external email 
> address in a .forward file but that didn't work.  Bob@peirce-family.com 
> produced an error message that said "(connect to 
> mx.peirce-family.com[66.96.142.50]:25: Operation timed out)
>                                           bob@peirce-family.com"
> And I have no idea what to do about that.  I don't recognize the IP 
> address, but I think port 25 is a standard port for smtp.

The address belongs to eigbox.net, which I assume is your hosting 
provider.

The error may be due to your ISP blocking port 25. A number of ISPs 
block port 25 to/from residential customers, except maybe to their SMTP 
gateway; you're supposed to send all your outgoing mail through their 
gateway, not directly to the destination. This is done to block spam 
cannons.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#20600

On 1/21/14 10:46 AM, Barry Margolin wrote:
> The address belongs to eigbox.net, which I assume is your hosting
> provider.

I did some checking and they own my ISP along with many others.  When I 
ran whois and nslookup I got that information but didn't know what it 
meant at the time.  I found it under its corporate name on wikipedia.

> The error may be due to your ISP blocking port 25. A number of ISPs
> block port 25 to/from residential customers, except maybe to their SMTP
> gateway; you're supposed to send all your outgoing mail through their
> gateway, not directly to the destination. This is done to block spam
> cannons.

Terrific.  Port 25 is allowed as part of Mac Mail, as you suggested. 
But that doesn't help if I can't use it.

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#20606

In article <lbm8rj$2fv$1@dont-email.me>,
 Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> On 1/21/14 10:46 AM, Barry Margolin wrote:
> > The address belongs to eigbox.net, which I assume is your hosting
> > provider.
> 
> I did some checking and they own my ISP along with many others.  When I 
> ran whois and nslookup I got that information but didn't know what it 
> meant at the time.  I found it under its corporate name on wikipedia.
> 
> > The error may be due to your ISP blocking port 25. A number of ISPs
> > block port 25 to/from residential customers, except maybe to their SMTP
> > gateway; you're supposed to send all your outgoing mail through their
> > gateway, not directly to the destination. This is done to block spam
> > cannons.
> 
> Terrific.  Port 25 is allowed as part of Mac Mail, as you suggested. 
> But that doesn't help if I can't use it.

You should be able to configure your mailer to relay everything through 
the ISP's SMTP server. You may need to set it to port 587 and configure 
authentication.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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