Groups > comp.sys.mac.apps > #43640 > unrolled thread

Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

Started by	Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>
First post	2018-11-08 19:16 -0800
Last post	2018-11-09 08:34 -0500
Articles	20 on this page of 48 — 11 participants

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#43674 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2018-11-11 17:47 +1300
Subject	Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?
Message-ID	<ps8c99$q04$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#43673

On 2018-11-10 21:01:18 +0000, John Varela said:
> On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 23:08:44 UTC, Lewis
> <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> In message <091120182045296450%timstreater@greenbee.net> Tim Streater 
>> <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>> In article <ps4qrd$1f01$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
>>> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>> The best approach (that almost no home user does) is to have at least
>>>> two drives, which you alternate, say every Friday, and taking the
>>>> swapped-out drive off-site. That way, even if your house burns down,
>>>> you'll still have a backup somewhere else that is at worst a week old.
>> 
>> No, this is not the best approach because it requires doing something on
>> a regular schedule, and people are terrible at that.

Ahh, the peanut brigade chimes in.  :-\

I said it was the best approach ... I never said it was what people did 
nor what they would be good at doing. I can't help it if most people 
are simply too lazy, too forgetful, or too stupid to do what's best. 
Unlike most Governments, I do not run a nanny state trying to force 
people into doing what's best.

> You're right about that.  I have a pair of drives for cloning than I
> nominally alternate using on the first and middle day of the month.
> I'm typically a week late.  Once in a while I forget entirely.
> 
> One of the clone drives is always in the trunk of the car,
<snip>

Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even 
semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than 
outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail, 
making it useless as a backup.

I used to store some boxed toys in my car boot / trunk simply because I 
had nowhere else to put them at the time. They weren't in direct 
sunlight, but the plastic in the 'windows' of the boxes all buckled due 
to the heat build-up.

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#43675

From	Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net>
Date	2018-11-11 08:32 -0500
Message-ID	<ps9b29$di3$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#43674

On 11/10/18 11:47 PM, Your Name wrote:
> On 2018-11-10 21:01:18 +0000, John Varela said:
>> On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 23:08:44 UTC, Lewis
>> <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>> In message <091120182045296450%timstreater@greenbee.net> Tim Streater 
>>> <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>> In article <ps4qrd$1f01$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
>>>> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The best approach (that almost no home user does) is to have at least
>>>>> two drives, which you alternate, say every Friday, and taking the
>>>>> swapped-out drive off-site. That way, even if your house burns down,
>>>>> you'll still have a backup somewhere else that is at worst a week old.
>>>
>>> No, this is not the best approach because it requires doing something on
>>> a regular schedule, and people are terrible at that.
> 
> Ahh, the peanut brigade chimes in.  :-\
> 
> I said it was the best approach ... I never said it was what people did 
> nor what they would be good at doing. I can't help it if most people are 
> simply too lazy, too forgetful, or too stupid to do what's best. Unlike 
> most Governments, I do not run a nanny state trying to force people into 
> doing what's best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> You're right about that.  I have a pair of drives for cloning than I
>> nominally alternate using on the first and middle day of the month.
>> I'm typically a week late.  Once in a while I forget entirely.
>>
>> One of the clone drives is always in the trunk of the car,
> <snip>
> 
> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even 
> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than 
> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail, 
> making it useless as a backup.
> 
> I used to store some boxed toys in my car boot / trunk simply because I 
> had nowhere else to put them at the time. They weren't in direct 
> sunlight, but the plastic in the 'windows' of the boxes all buckled due 
> to the heat build-up.
> 
...not to mention the possibility of theft...

-- 
Nigerian authorities found a man dead in his apartment along with 16 
billion dollars stored there. Apparently he had been trying to give it 
away for over 10 years... but no one would return his emails.

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#43676

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2018-11-11 16:39 +0000
Message-ID	<g4r4a0Fes8tU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#43675

On 2018-11-11, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
> On 11/10/18 11:47 PM, Your Name wrote:
>> 
>> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even 
>> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than 
>> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail, 
>> making it useless as a backup.

Non-operating temperatures for hard drives maxes out around 70ºC or
158ºF. If your trunk gets that hot, you definitely don't want to store
any electronics in it. Where I live, it never gets that hot, even in the
middle of summer.

> ...not to mention the possibility of theft...

Not a problem if the drive is encrypted with FileVault.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#43680 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

From	"John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net>
Date	2018-11-11 23:39 +0000
Subject	Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?
Message-ID	<51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-VgBE7Lopzdvl@localhost>
In reply to	#43676

On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 16:39:28 UTC, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
wrote:

> On 2018-11-11, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
> > On 11/10/18 11:47 PM, Your Name wrote:
> >> 
> >> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even 
> >> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than 
> >> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail, 
> >> making it useless as a backup.
> 
> Non-operating temperatures for hard drives maxes out around 70ºC or
> 158ºF. If your trunk gets that hot, you definitely don't want to store
> any electronics in it. Where I live, it never gets that hot, even in the
> middle of summer.

When I lived in Phoenix, I had to leave my car out in the Arizona 
sun for nine or ten hours a day, with all the windows rolled up 
tight because you never could tell when a dust storm would blow in 
and we worked in a windowless building so I couldn't see one coming.
 I had a thermometer in the car and it never registered higher than 
the low 140s.

Outside of Death Valley, there aren't many places in the CONUS that 
get much hotter sun than southern Arizona.

> > ...not to mention the possibility of theft...

> Not a problem if the drive is encrypted with FileVault.

Which it is.

-- 
John Varela

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#43681 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2018-11-12 13:00 +1300
Subject	Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?
Message-ID	<psafqk$8fj$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#43680

On 2018-11-11 23:39:45 +0000, John Varela said:
> On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 16:39:28 UTC, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
> wrote:
>> On 2018-11-11, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/10/18 11:47 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even
>>>> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than
>>>> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail,
>>>> making it useless as a backup.
>> 
>> Non-operating temperatures for hard drives maxes out around 70ºC or
>> 158ºF. If your trunk gets that hot, you definitely don't want to store
>> any electronics in it. Where I live, it never gets that hot, even in the
>> middle of summer.
> 
> When I lived in Phoenix, I had to leave my car out in the Arizona
> sun for nine or ten hours a day, with all the windows rolled up
> tight because you never could tell when a dust storm would blow in
> and we worked in a windowless building so I couldn't see one coming.
>  I had a thermometer in the car and it never registered higher than
> the low 140s.
> 
> Outside of Death Valley, there aren't many places in the CONUS that
> get much hotter sun than southern Arizona.
> 
>>> ...not to mention the possibility of theft...
> 
>> Not a problem if the drive is encrypted with FileVault.
> 
> Which it is.

Encryption will prevent the thief accessing any data, but the stolen 
drive is still completely useless as a backup source if your main drive 
fails.

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#43682 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2018-11-12 00:23 +0000
Subject	Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?
Message-ID	<g4rvghFkuclU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#43681

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> On 2018-11-11 23:39:45 +0000, John Varela said:
>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 16:39:28 UTC, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2018-11-11, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/18 11:47 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even
>>>>> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than
>>>>> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail,
>>>>> making it useless as a backup.
>>> 
>>> Non-operating temperatures for hard drives maxes out around 70ºC or
>>> 158ºF. If your trunk gets that hot, you definitely don't want to store
>>> any electronics in it. Where I live, it never gets that hot, even in the
>>> middle of summer.
>> 
>> When I lived in Phoenix, I had to leave my car out in the Arizona
>> sun for nine or ten hours a day, with all the windows rolled up
>> tight because you never could tell when a dust storm would blow in
>> and we worked in a windowless building so I couldn't see one coming.
>> I had a thermometer in the car and it never registered higher than
>> the low 140s.
>> 
>> Outside of Death Valley, there aren't many places in the CONUS that
>> get much hotter sun than southern Arizona.
>> 
>>>> ...not to mention the possibility of theft...
>> 
>>> Not a problem if the drive is encrypted with FileVault.
>> 
>> Which it is.
> 
> Encryption will prevent the thief accessing any data, but the stolen 
> drive is still completely useless as a backup source if your main drive 
> fails.

Read it again, slowly if needed:

“One of the clone drives is always in the trunk of the car, and the most
recent clone is on my desk not connected to anything unless actually in
use, which is pretty much never except when cloning.”

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#43683 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2018-11-11 20:02 -0500
Subject	Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?
Message-ID	<111120182002394454%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#43681

In article <psafqk$8fj$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> >>>> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even
> >>>> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than
> >>>> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail,
> >>>> making it useless as a backup.
> >> 
> >> Non-operating temperatures for hard drives maxes out around 70ºC or
> >> 158ºF. If your trunk gets that hot, you definitely don't want to store
> >> any electronics in it. Where I live, it never gets that hot, even in the
> >> middle of summer.
> > 
> > When I lived in Phoenix, I had to leave my car out in the Arizona
> > sun for nine or ten hours a day, with all the windows rolled up
> > tight because you never could tell when a dust storm would blow in
> > and we worked in a windowless building so I couldn't see one coming.
> >  I had a thermometer in the car and it never registered higher than
> > the low 140s.
> > 
> > Outside of Death Valley, there aren't many places in the CONUS that
> > get much hotter sun than southern Arizona.
> > 
> >>> ...not to mention the possibility of theft...
> > 
> >> Not a problem if the drive is encrypted with FileVault.
> > 
> > Which it is.
> 
> Encryption will prevent the thief accessing any data, but the stolen 
> drive is still completely useless as a backup source if your main drive 
> fails.

since it's not the only backup, that doesn't matter.

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#43684

From	Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date	2018-11-12 03:15 +0000
Message-ID	<slrnpuhs1v.cl1.g.kreme@Snow.local>
In reply to	#43676

In message <g4r4a0Fes8tU1@mid.individual.net> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2018-11-11, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>> On 11/10/18 11:47 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>> 
>>> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even 
>>> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than 
>>> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail, 
>>> making it useless as a backup.

> Non-operating temperatures for hard drives maxes out around 70ºC or
> 158ºF. If your trunk gets that hot, you definitely don't want to store
> any electronics in it. Where I live, it never gets that hot, even in the
> middle of summer.

The inside of your trunk will be MUCH hotter than the outside
temperature. A temperature of only 70F is enough to kill pets as your car
interior can climb to well over 110F.

Even in the frozen middle of Canada, temperatures in cars get too hot
for pets or hard drives.

-- 
"I don't think the kind of friends I'd have would care."

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#43685

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2018-11-12 14:09 +0000
Message-ID	<g4tfrvFf39U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#43684

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <g4r4a0Fes8tU1@mid.individual.net> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-11-11, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/10/18 11:47 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even 
>>>> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than 
>>>> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail, 
>>>> making it useless as a backup.
> 
>> Non-operating temperatures for hard drives maxes out around 70ºC or
>> 158ºF. If your trunk gets that hot, you definitely don't want to store
>> any electronics in it. Where I live, it never gets that hot, even in the
>> middle of summer.
> 
> The inside of your trunk will be MUCH hotter than the outside
> temperature. 

Nope. While that may be true in very hot places with cars that sit in
direct sunlight for hours, it’s definitely not true in places that are
cooler and where cars do not sit in direct sunlight for hours.

> Even in the frozen middle of Canada, temperatures in cars get too hot
> for pets or hard drives.

Not all of them, no. Cars don’t just magically heat up on their own.
Conditions need to be right for that to happen. This isn’t rocket surgery.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#43686 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

From	"John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net>
Date	2018-11-12 23:01 +0000
Subject	Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?
Message-ID	<51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-RxBNze4v0bFH@localhost>
In reply to	#43684

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 03:15:11 UTC, Lewis 
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <g4r4a0Fes8tU1@mid.individual.net> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> > On 2018-11-11, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
> >> On 11/10/18 11:47 PM, Your Name wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even 
> >>> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than 
> >>> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail, 
> >>> making it useless as a backup.
> 
> > Non-operating temperatures for hard drives maxes out around 70ºC or
> > 158ºF. If your trunk gets that hot, you definitely don't want to store
> > any electronics in it. Where I live, it never gets that hot, even in the
> > middle of summer.
> 
> The inside of your trunk will be MUCH hotter than the outside
> temperature.

Well, yes, but not hotter than the interior, which is where I had my
thermometer.  The glass windows have a greenhouse effect that does 
not apply to the trunk.

>     A temperature of only 70F is enough to kill p 
The car is in the garage most of the time, but it does sit out in 
the Virginia sun for five or six hours at a time when I am playing 
golf.  Been doing that for years and haven't lost a drive yet 
The car is in the garage most of the time, but it does sit out in 
the Virginia sun for five or six hours at a time when I am playing 
golf.  Been doing that for years and haven't lost a drive yetets as 
your car
> interior can climb to well over 110F.
> 
> Even in the frozen middle of Canada, temperatures in cars get too hot
> for pets or hard drives.

-- 
John Varela

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#43687 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2018-11-13 13:42 +1300
Subject	Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?
Message-ID	<psd6ku$u0k$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#43686

On 2018-11-12 23:01:44 +0000, John Varela said:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 03:15:11 UTC, Lewis
> <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> In message <g4r4a0Fes8tU1@mid.individual.net> Jolly Roger 
>> <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-11-11, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/18 11:47 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even
>>>>> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than
>>>>> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail,
>>>>> making it useless as a backup.
>> 
>>> Non-operating temperatures for hard drives maxes out around 70ºC or
>>> 158ºF. If your trunk gets that hot, you definitely don't want to store
>>> any electronics in it. Where I live, it never gets that hot, even in the
>>> middle of summer.
>> 
>> The inside of your trunk will be MUCH hotter than the outside
>> temperature.
> 
> Well, yes, but not hotter than the interior, which is where I had my
> thermometer.  The glass windows have a greenhouse effect that does
> not apply to the trunk.

Yes and no. It of course depends on the design of the car. Some cars 
are just as hot in the 'trunk'.

My car for example has a long sloping hatchback rear with a large sheet 
of glass, which not only causes the 'trunk' to be just as hot as the 
rest of the interior (the privacy cover shelf might help slightly), 
but, along with the glass sunroof, also increases the heat inside the 
car overall compared to a "normal" shaped car.  :-(

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#43690 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

From	"John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net>
Date	2018-11-13 22:36 +0000
Subject	Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?
Message-ID	<51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-PJq3u7N0mSoo@localhost>
In reply to	#43687

On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 00:42:09 UTC, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> 
wrote:

> On 2018-11-12 23:01:44 +0000, John Varela said:
> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 03:15:11 UTC, Lewis
> > <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >> In message <g4r4a0Fes8tU1@mid.individual.net> Jolly Roger 
> >> <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>> On 2018-11-11, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
> >>>> On 11/10/18 11:47 PM, Your Name wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even
> >>>>> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than
> >>>>> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail,
> >>>>> making it useless as a backup.
> >> 
> >>> Non-operating temperatures for hard drives maxes out around 70ºC or
> >>> 158ºF. If your trunk gets that hot, you definitely don't want to store
> >>> any electronics in it. Where I live, it never gets that hot, even in the
> >>> middle of summer.
> >> 
> >> The inside of your trunk will be MUCH hotter than the outside
> >> temperature.
> > 
> > Well, yes, but not hotter than the interior, which is where I had my
> > thermometer.  The glass windows have a greenhouse effect that does
> > not apply to the trunk.
> 
> Yes and no. It of course depends on the design of the car. Some cars 
> are just as hot in the 'trunk'.
> 
> My car for example has a long sloping hatchback rear with a large sheet 
> of glass, which not only causes the 'trunk' to be just as hot as the 
> rest of the interior (the privacy cover shelf might help slightly), 
> but, along with the glass sunroof, also increases the heat inside the 
> car overall compared to a "normal" shaped car.  :-(
 
The car with the thermometer in Phoenix was a 1960 VW Beetle painted
"Indian Red".  The car that I drive now is an Infiniti M37 painted 
silver.  The former had a trunk in the front that was not overlapped
by the windshield at all, and the latter has a rear window that has 
a small overlap of the trunk, probably about average for 4-door 
sedans these days.

Anyway, I have had no failures of back-up drives since I started the
practice of always keeping one of them in the trunk of the Infiniti.

-- 
John Varela

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#43698 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2018-11-17 15:13 +0000
Subject	Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?
Message-ID	<g5apgrFnr1lU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#43690

John Varela <newlamps@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> Anyway, I have had no failures of back-up drives since I started the
> practice of always keeping one of them in the trunk of the Infiniti.

Same here for several years with multiple BMWs. People should just use
common sense (assuming they have any) when picking a good off-site location
for backups.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#43679 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

From	"John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net>
Date	2018-11-11 23:33 +0000
Subject	Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?
Message-ID	<51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-sTtbH16UQB6I@localhost>
In reply to	#43674

On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 04:47:37 UTC, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> 
wrote:

> On 2018-11-10 21:01:18 +0000, John Varela said:
> > On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 23:08:44 UTC, Lewis
> > <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >> In message <091120182045296450%timstreater@greenbee.net> Tim Streater 
> >> <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> >>> In article <ps4qrd$1f01$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
> >>> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>>> The best approach (that almost no home user does) is to have at least
> >>>> two drives, which you alternate, say every Friday, and taking the
> >>>> swapped-out drive off-site. That way, even if your house burns down,
> >>>> you'll still have a backup somewhere else that is at worst a week old.
> >> 
> >> No, this is not the best approach because it requires doing something on
> >> a regular schedule, and people are terrible at that.
> 
> Ahh, the peanut brigade chimes in.  :-\
> 
> I said it was the best approach ... I never said it was what people did 
> nor what they would be good at doing. I can't help it if most people 
> are simply too lazy, too forgetful, or too stupid to do what's best. 
> Unlike most Governments, I do not run a nanny state trying to force 
> people into doing what's best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > You're right about that.  I have a pair of drives for cloning than I
> > nominally alternate using on the first and middle day of the month.
> > I'm typically a week late.  Once in a while I forget entirely.
> > 
> > One of the clone drives is always in the trunk of the car,
> <snip>
> 
> Do NOT keep drives in your car if you live somewhere that gets even 
> semi-hot. The temperature inside the car is always far more than 
> outside, and high summer temperatures could cause a drive to fail, 
> making it useless as a backup.

The car is in the garage most of the time, but it does sit out in 
the Virginia sun for five or six hours at a time when I am playing 
golf.  I've been doing that for years and haven't lost a drive yet.

> I used to store some boxed toys in my car boot / trunk simply because I 
> had nowhere else to put them at the time. They weren't in direct 
> sunlight, but the plastic in the 'windows' of the boxes all buckled due 
> to the heat build-up.

-- 
John Varela

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#43670

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2018-11-10 13:48 +1300
Message-ID	<ps59sp$66e$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#43665

On 2018-11-09 20:45:29 +0000, Tim Streater said:
> In article <ps4qrd$1f01$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The best approach (that almost no home user does) is to have at least 
>> two drives, which you alternate, say every Friday, and taking the 
>> swapped-out drive off-site. That way, even if your house burns down, 
>> you'll still have a backup somewhere else that is at worst a week old.
> 
> Most users won't have a clue what you are talking about, if you mention
> backup. Some users don't know what double-clicking is. Others seem to
> think the machine is a glorified typewriter, so when they finish a doc
> they hit Return 20 times like they used to do, as if they expect the
> doc to scroll out of the top of the screen on a bit of paper. Then they
> knock on my door and ask why the printer outputs a blank sheet after
> their doc.
> 
> They also do all their document layout using the space bar and the
> built in tabs, and wonder why the layout is fragile in terms of,
> f'rinstance, changing paper size, and looks like shit. I've even seen
> multi-column layouts done entirely with spaces and tabs, in PageMaker,
> FFS.
> 
> And there was one user who insisted on having all the formatting bars
> open at all times when using Word. So that there was about an inch of
> vertical space left for the document.
> 
> I've given up worrying about users who don't know their arse from a
> hole in the ground.

All true, but I was really thinking about those home users who do make 
backups - very few bother to have two drives with one taken off-site. 
Same can be said for most small businesses as well.

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#43666

From	"John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net>
Date	2018-11-09 21:24 +0000
Message-ID	<51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-Do9x0PUOB64t@localhost>
In reply to	#43659

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 16:18:40 UTC, Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> 
wrote:

> On 2018-11-09 13:34:28 +0000, nospam said:
> 
> > In article <2018110821361164749-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
> > <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > 
> >> I don't know if I could use a third back-up drive; all four of my Mac's
> >> USB ports are being used.
> > 
> > get a usb hub, or disconnect one drive to use another.
> 
> Thanks, Nospam.
> 
> I have a seven-port, powered Anker USB hub.  I didn't know that could 
> be used well for an external drive.  In the past, not all devices 
> worked when I plugged them into a USB hub.  Maybe it was because the 
> hub I used years ago was an older one that wasn't powered.
> 
> > it's best to *not* have backup drives always connected in case
> > something goes wrong.
> 
> I guess in that case I'd have to plug the drives in every night before 
> going to bed (so the back-ups could run still automatcially every 
> night) and then every morning ejecting the drives' icons in case 
> something goes wrong during the days.

Though it's admittedly highly unlikely, a nearby lightning strike 
could fry everything that's connected to a power outlet.  Either 
always have at least one of your backups completely disconnected 
from everything or, better, keep one off site.  An off-site backup 
also protects against home fires, tornadoes, and earthquakes.

-- 
John Varela

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#43671

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2018-11-10 13:52 +1300
Message-ID	<ps5a3p$6en$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#43666

On 2018-11-09 21:24:27 +0000, John Varela said:
> On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 16:18:40 UTC, Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
>> On 2018-11-09 13:34:28 +0000, nospam said:
>>> In article <2018110821361164749-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
>>> <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know if I could use a third back-up drive; all four of my Mac's
>>>> USB ports are being used.
>>> 
>>> get a usb hub, or disconnect one drive to use another.
>> 
>> Thanks, Nospam.
>> 
>> I have a seven-port, powered Anker USB hub.  I didn't know that could
>> be used well for an external drive.  In the past, not all devices
>> worked when I plugged them into a USB hub.  Maybe it was because the
>> hub I used years ago was an older one that wasn't powered.
>> 
>>> it's best to *not* have backup drives always connected in case
>>> something goes wrong.
>> 
>> I guess in that case I'd have to plug the drives in every night before
>> going to bed (so the back-ups could run still automatcially every
>> night) and then every morning ejecting the drives' icons in case
>> something goes wrong during the days.
> 
> Though it's admittedly highly unlikely, a nearby lightning strike
> could fry everything that's connected to a power outlet.  Either
> always have at least one of your backups completely disconnected
> from everything or, better, keep one off site.  An off-site backup
> also protects against home fires, tornadoes, and earthquakes.

Even better to also have a backup, probably cloud-based, that is in a 
different part of the country or even a different country.

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#43667

From	Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date	2018-11-09 23:03 +0000
Message-ID	<slrnpuc4hr.2eks.g.kreme@jaka.local>
In reply to	#43659

In message <2018110908184012894-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-11-09 13:34:28 +0000, nospam said:

>> In article <2018110821361164749-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
>> <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> I don't know if I could use a third back-up drive; all four of my Mac's
>>> USB ports are being used.
>> 
>> get a usb hub, or disconnect one drive to use another.

> Thanks, Nospam.

> I have a seven-port, powered Anker USB hub.  I didn't know that could 
> be used well for an external drive.  In the past, not all devices 
> worked when I plugged them into a USB hub.  Maybe it was because the 
> hub I used years ago was an older one that wasn't powered.

Many USB hubs are sold to be as cheaop as possible, and are shit. Anker
hubs are reasonably cheap, but have been excellent in terms of quality
(as all the Anker stuff has been). So it is quite possible to have a USB
hub that doesn't work well with some devices.

>> it's best to *not* have backup drives always connected in case
>> something goes wrong.

> I guess in that case I'd have to plug the drives in every night before 
> going to bed (so the back-ups could run still automatcially every 
> night) and then every morning ejecting the drives' icons in case 
> something goes wrong during the days.

Depends. I would not do clones on a daily basis.

Well, i don't do clones on a daily basis.

Generally, I make a clone of a drive when I am going to make a major
change. Otherwise I have other better backups.

-- 
If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?

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#43657

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2018-11-09 15:04 +0000
Message-ID	<g4llvtF83sfU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#43647

On 2018-11-09, Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-11-09 04:18:56 +0000, nospam said:
>
>> In article <201811082009468910-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
>> <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> But the only two drives Time Machine shows are available for backing up
>>> onto are the two external drives that I use to mirror my Mac's data,
>>> using Super Duper.
>> 
>> you'll need another drive.
>> 
>> you could repurpose one drive for time machine and keep the other for
>> superduper, as they each cover different types of failures, but that
>> also means you have one less clone.
>
> Thanks, Nospam.
>
> Yes, I thought that, too.
>
> I don't know if I could use a third back-up drive; all four of my Mac's 
> USB ports are being used.

You likely don't need all of those USB devices connected all of the
time.

Another option is to attach a dedicated backup drive to another Mac that
stays running 24/7 on your network, and set up file sharing to share it
as a Time Machine backup drive with all of the other Macs on your
network (in System Preferences > Sharing > File Sharing, then
right-clicking the shared folder there to enable the "Share as Time
Machine backup destination advanced option), then back up
to that drive from the other Macs in your home.

I back up all of my Macs using this method to a Mac mini headless server
sitting in my office closet, connected to several external hard drives.
Works great. I don't even think about backups. Time Machine just does
it. Every so often I use SuperDuper to create archives of my systems as
well, just in case something goes wrong with Time Machine. All of the
backups are stored on the drives connected to the Mac mini. I swap one
of the external hard drives with another one that I keep off site in the
event of a catastrophe once a month. That means I will only lose under
one month's worth of changes if my house burns down or something.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#43658

From	Davoud <star@sky.net>
Date	2018-11-09 10:56 -0500
Message-ID	<091120181056277521%star@sky.net>
In reply to	#43647

Tom Evans:
> ...
> I don't know if I could use a third back-up drive; all four of my Mac's 
> USB ports are being used.

Like most of us! Seagate‹perhaps others as well‹make a drive that they
call "Backup Plus Hub." You may use the Mac or "Windows" version; you
must reformat the latter. But it gives you up to 10TB.
<https://www.seagate.com/consumer/backup/backup-plus-desk-mac/>

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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csiph-web

Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

Contents

#43674 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

#43675

#43676

#43680 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

#43681 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

#43682 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

#43683 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

#43684

#43685

#43686 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

#43687 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

#43690 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

#43698 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

#43679 — Re: Easy way to recover a file from the emptied Trash, without using Time Machine?

#43670

#43666

#43671

#43667

#43657

#43658