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Satellite A660

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  Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2013-12-14 21:18 -0800
    Re: Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2014-02-27 22:02 -0800
      Re: Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2014-03-02 22:57 -0800
        Re: Satellite A660 Bob_Villa <pheeh.zero@gmail.com> - 2014-03-03 04:24 -0800
          Re: Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2014-04-14 19:13 -0700
            Re: Satellite A660 Dominic Reich <usenet@tmsn.at> - 2014-04-16 17:22 +0000
              Re: Satellite A660 not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2014-04-16 22:44 +0000
                Re: Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2014-04-18 17:30 -0700
                  Re: Satellite A660 Dominic Reich <usenet@tmsn.at> - 2014-04-19 00:56 +0000
                    Re: Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2014-04-20 14:04 -0700
                      Re: Satellite A660 Dominic Reich <usenet@tmsn.at> - 2014-04-23 19:02 +0000
                        Re: Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2014-04-26 11:40 -0700
                  Re: Satellite A660 not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2014-04-19 02:41 +0000
                  Re: Satellite A660 wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2014-04-19 09:34 +0000
                    Re: Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2014-04-19 22:29 -0700
                      Re: Satellite A660 wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2014-04-21 20:33 +0000
                        Re: Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2014-04-21 23:24 -0700
                          Re: Satellite A660 not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2014-04-23 00:02 +0000
                            Re: Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2014-04-26 11:59 -0700
                          Re: Satellite A660 Dominic Reich <usenet@tmsn.at> - 2014-04-23 19:26 +0000
                            Re: Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2014-04-26 11:46 -0700
                          Re: Satellite A660 wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2014-05-03 14:53 +0000
                            Re: Satellite A660 andymhancock@gmail.com - 2014-05-03 13:29 -0700
            Re: Satellite A660 wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2014-04-20 01:52 +0000

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#2155 — Satellite A660

Never in my life have I used such an unmitigated piece of _____.  It has so much potential, but they decided to mix in an untested keyboard design.  Of all the things to f..ck with.  Why *not* replace a steering wheel on a porsche with a fricking wet noodle.  Talk about stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.  Can the crippling of an otherwise great design be done any more inanely?

Oh wait.  I'm going over the top.  It *is* a good design...if you intend to use it for gaming and media.  A great toy, a lethal miserable fakery of a work tool.  If I hadn't paid well over a grand for it, it physically would not be in one piece, at least so far.  I dearly hope that there is a maker out there that *doesn't* make such an utterly incomprehensible design decision.  At some point, this POS will end up...let's just say it will end.  It would be nice to know that there is actually a practical common-sense alternative.

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#2183

On Sunday, December 15, 2013 12:18:47 AM UTC-5, andymh...@gmail.com wrote:
> Never in my life have I used such an unmitigated piece of _____.  It has so much potential, but they decided to mix in an untested keyboard design.  Of all the things to f..ck with.  Why *not* replace a steering wheel on a porsche with a fricking wet noodle.  Talk about stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.  Can the crippling of an otherwise great design be done any more inanely?
> 
> Oh wait.  I'm going over the top.  It *is* a good design...if you intend to use it for gaming and media.  A great toy, a lethal miserable fakery of a work tool.  If I hadn't paid well over a grand for it, it physically would not be in one piece, at least so far.  I dearly hope that there is a maker out there that *doesn't* make such an utterly incomprehensible design decision.  At some point, this POS will end up...let's just say it will end.  It would be nice to know that there is actually a practical common-sense alternative.

Fracking piece of ass wiping trash.

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#2184

On Friday, February 28, 2014 1:02:58 AM UTC-5, andymh...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, December 15, 2013 12:18:47 AM UTC-5, andymh...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > Never in my life have I used such an unmitigated piece of _____.  It has so much potential, but they decided to mix in an untested keyboard design.  Of all the things to f..ck with.  Why *not* replace a steering wheel on a porsche with a fricking wet noodle.  Talk about stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.  Can the crippling of an otherwise great design be done any more inanely?
> 
> > 
> 
> > Oh wait.  I'm going over the top.  It *is* a good design...if you intend to use it for gaming and media.  A great toy, a lethal miserable fakery of a work tool.  If I hadn't paid well over a grand for it, it physically would not be in one piece, at least so far.  I dearly hope that there is a maker out there that *doesn't* make such an utterly incomprehensible design decision.  At some point, this POS will end up...let's just say it will end.  It would be nice to know that there is actually a practical common-sense alternative.
> 
> 
> 
> Fracking piece of ass wiping trash.

This point cannot be emphasize enough.

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#2185

On Monday, March 3, 2014 12:57:03 AM UTC-6, andymh...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, February 28, 2014 1:02:58 AM UTC-5, andymh...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday, December 15, 2013 12:18:47 AM UTC-5, andymh...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Never in my life have I used such an unmitigated piece of _____.  It has so much potential, but they decided to mix in an untested keyboard design.  Of all the things to f..ck with.  Why *not* replace a steering wheel on a porsche with a fricking wet noodle.  Talk about stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.  Can the crippling of an otherwise great design be done any more inanely?
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Oh wait.  I'm going over the top.  It *is* a good design...if you intend to use it for gaming and media.  A great toy, a lethal miserable fakery of a work tool.  If I hadn't paid well over a grand for it, it physically would not be in one piece, at least so far.  I dearly hope that there is a maker out there that *doesn't* make such an utterly incomprehensible design decision.  At some point, this POS will end up...let's just say it will end.  It would be nice to know that there is actually a practical common-sense alternative.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Fracking piece of ass wiping trash.
> 
> 
> 
> This point cannot be emphasize enough.

We get it, thanks!

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#2189

This is the only piece of trash laptop that I've used (and I've used a few) that has both poor motion registration on an oversize touchpad as well as sporadic hypersensitive registration of accidental taps.  You could be typing along a grand piece of work, and boom!, a whole skad of text gets highlighted and overtyped.  On one hand, I feel that companies that go the trouble of investing and risking putting out products on the market should be commended.  On the other hand, FFS!!!!  WTF ever happened to trial testing?  If you're going to screw your customers by using them as expendable guineau pigs, EFF YOU.

what is very demoralizing is that the hype and sexy wowee effects that people seek in laptops may make it impractical for laptop makers to follow a more measured, prudent product planning.  That means we're doomed to get crap after crap.  The crap squirrel wheel.

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#2190

* andymhancock@gmail.com <andymhancock@gmail.com> wrote:
[ two very long lines ]

Have you ever heard of a linebreak Sir?

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#2191

Dominic Reich <usenet@tmsn.at> wrote:
> * andymhancock@gmail.com <andymhancock@gmail.com> wrote:
> [ two very long lines ]
> 
> Have you ever heard of a linebreak Sir?

Seems to come like that from a lot of Google Groupers, I guess the
interface doesn't do it by default or the user has to manually.

Most decent newsreaders have a line wrap option, though things get
messy with quotes.

-- 
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#_ < |\| |< _#

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#2192

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:44:30 PM UTC-4, Computer Nerd Kev
wrote:
>Dominic Reich <usenetATtmsn.at> wrote:
>><andymhancockATgmail.com> wrote: [ two very
>> long lines ]
>> 
>> Have you ever heard of a linebreak Sir?
> 
> Seems to come like that from a lot of Google Groupers, I guess the
> interface doesn't do it by default or the user has to manually.
> 
> Most decent newsreaders have a line wrap option, though things get
> messy with quotes.

Have you ever heard of describing the nature of your issue rather than posting a single technically smug and "context-free" sentence of a complaint?  This may be usenet, but its not an excuse for abandoning the basic tenets of decent communication.

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#2193

* andymhancock@gmail.com <andymhancock@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:44:30 PM UTC-4, Computer Nerd Kev
> wrote:
>> Seems to come like that from a lot of Google Groupers, I guess the
>> interface doesn't do it by default or the user has to manually.
>> 
>> Most decent newsreaders have a line wrap option, though things get
>> messy with quotes.
>
> Have you ever heard of describing the nature of your issue rather than
> posting a single technically smug and "context-free" sentence of
> a complaint?  This may be usenet, but its not an excuse for abandoning
> the basic tenets of decent communication.

It looks like you are referring to the wrong person but it might be
the /decent/ communication that you are using.

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#2198

On Friday, April 18, 2014 8:56:46 PM UTC-4, Dominic Reich wrote:
>andymhancockATgmail.com <andymhancockATgmail.com> wrote:
>>On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:44:30 PM UTC-4, Computer Nerd Kev
>>wrote:
>>> Seems to come like that from a lot of Google Groupers, I guess the
>>> interface doesn't do it by default or the user has to manually.
>>> 
>>> Most decent newsreaders have a line wrap option, though things get
>>> messy with quotes.
>>
>> Have you ever heard of describing the nature of your issue rather
>> than posting a single technically smug and "context-free" sentence
>> of a complaint?  This may be usenet, but its not an excuse for
>> abandoning the basic tenets of decent communication.
> 
> It looks like you are referring to the wrong person but it might be
> the /decent/ communication that you are using.

Deceptively snipping selective quotes is the mark of a desparate and dishonest person.  At first, I thought you were being deliberately obtuse because the part that you snipped made it abundantly clear what the response was about (unless you're too lazy to read the rather short quote, just as you were too lazy to articulate *your* problem, electing instead to lob snippy self-important nothings).

You're stooping pretty low, Dominic.

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#2202

* andymhancock@gmail.com <andymhancock@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, April 18, 2014 8:56:46 PM UTC-4, Dominic Reich wrote:
>>andymhancockATgmail.com <andymhancockATgmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:44:30 PM UTC-4, Computer Nerd Kev
>>>wrote:
>>>> Seems to come like that from a lot of Google Groupers, I guess the
>>>> interface doesn't do it by default or the user has to manually.
>>>> 
>>>> Most decent newsreaders have a line wrap option, though things get
>>>> messy with quotes.
>>>
>>> Have you ever heard of describing the nature of your issue rather
>>> than posting a single technically smug and "context-free" sentence
>>> of a complaint?  This may be usenet, but its not an excuse for
>>> abandoning the basic tenets of decent communication.
>> 
>> It looks like you are referring to the wrong person but it might be
>> the /decent/ communication that you are using.
>
> Deceptively snipping selective quotes is the mark of a desparate and dishonest person.  At first, I thought you were being deliberately obtuse because the part that you snipped made it abundantly clear what the response was about (unless you're too lazy to read the rather short quote, just as you were too lazy to articulate *your* problem, electing instead to lob snippy self-important nothings).
>
> You're stooping pretty low, Dominic.

Look at it again and tell me once more that I left something out.
I just manually broke the text that you weren't able to.

All I did was asking you in a good way if you know line breaks - now
this is what turned out - and this is not what I made it, it's been
you and the way you responded.

(It is meant to have a fullquote above, so also andymhancock can
read it.)

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#2204

On Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:02:32 PM UTC-4, Dominic Reich wrote:
>andymhancockATgmail.com wrote:
>> Deceptively snipping selective quotes is the mark of a desparate
>> and dishonest person.  At first, I thought you were being
>> deliberately obtuse because the part that you snipped made it
>> abundantly clear what the response was about (unless you're too
>> lazy to read the rather short quote, just as you were too lazy to
>> articulate *your* problem, electing instead to lob snippy
>> self-important nothings).
>>
>> You're stooping pretty low, Dominic.
> 
> Look at it again and tell me once more that I left something out.
> I just manually broke the text that you weren't able to.
> 
> All I did was asking you in a good way if you know line breaks - now
> this is what turned out - and this is not what I made it, it's been
> you and the way you responded.
> 
> (It is meant to have a fullquote above, so also andymhancock can
> read it.)

You, Sir, are full of it.  You of all people should realize it doesn't
matter how you try to spin it.  It's all there (not in your quotes of
course) in usenet.

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#2194

andymhancock@gmail.com wrote:

> This may be usenet, but its not an excuse for abandoning the
> basic tenets of decent communication.

The problem with Google Groups is that it makes it particularly hard
to work out exactly _what_ Usenet is. Mainly by ignoring must of the
rules it has used for decades, tree structures and line breaks being
a particularly topical case in point.

Try copying one of your posts into Notepad and turning off word wrap
for an example of our problem.

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#2195

In article <4484d948-d099-4997-95eb-044d0f2c6678@googlegroups.com>,
 <andymhancock@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>This may be usenet, but its not an excuse for abandoning the
>basic tenets of decent communication.


	Like the occasional linefeed.

	BTW, you're only stuck with crap if you buy crap.  Thinkpad ain't
nearly what it was under IBM, but they definitely ain't crap.  Spend your
money on a unit that says it performs like a home-theatre setup, has an 8 
hour battery life, and scores 8000 on 3DMark at 1920x1080, and you're bound
to uncover a few cut corners after you live with it for a while.

	I'm typing this on a Thinkpad X31 that I paid maybe $100.00 for 3
years ago. I did stick a small SSD in for the subjective improvement, but
it's otherwise "stock".  I don't feel deprived.  In fact, you can't beat
the keyboard, the top lid is stiff enough that I don't have to baby it to
avoid pressure marks, and it fits on the fold-down tray on airplanes.  


	What I'm trying to say is that with laptops you generally get 2 of 3:
quality and price, quality and performance, or performance and price.  Now
that they have to compete with $200.00 Chromebooks and the like, all too
many vendors are choosing door #3.  I still think Thinkpads are the 
closest to meeting expectations, which isn't to say they're the "best",
just that they're the least likely to disappoint.  Sattelite's have always
been, ummm, well, crap, IMHO.  A red flag is the One Long Screw construction.

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#2197

On Saturday, April 19, 2014 5:34:59 AM UTC-4, the wharf rat wrote:
>In article <4484d948-d099-4997-95eb-044d0f2c6678@googlegroups.com>,
><andymhancockATgmail.com> wrote:
>> This may be usenet, but its not an excuse for abandoning the
>> basic tenets of decent communication.
>
> Like the occasional linefeed.

I do put in the occassional linefeed.

What we have is someone who is complaining, obviously expecting
something, but considers himself or herself above saying what the
issue is.  And being damn smug about it.

I must say that thanks is due to Kev for stepping in and filling the
gap that Dominic was too smart to fill in.

Now, I've used the vim wrapping feature to hard wrap this message, but
do keep in mind that this is a problem for readers that wrap to window
width.  It makes it look all mutilated, I'm not going to pretend to
have been converted to linebreak cultist.  I'm gob smacked that
readers these days do not have the capability of wrapping to window
width.  Is this actually the case???  (Is this what Dominic couldn't
be bothered to say in his terse self-important demand, as if the world
stared out through his eyes at his personal setup, and could thus read
his mind?).  If that is in fact the case, I sure wouldn't place the
blame on users of eternal september -- especially if they are growing
in number.  If the emerging norm is for wrap-to-window-width to be a
commonly expected behaviour, it can just as well be considered a
deficiency for apps to not provide this.

Along those lines, thank goodness for Vim's ability to re-wrap with
quoting chevrons.  My perception is that the vast majority of techies
don't use Vim, so what do they do???  My dim recollection of
Thunderbird was that they might have been able to handle reflowing,
but it *definitely* was not robust, especially considering the flora
and fauna of readers and editors out there.  If people are going to
get all bent out of shape about hard carriage returns, it doesn't make
sense to do so unless a widely accessible solution is available.  And
I mean to users of all ilk, using different environments/apps --
*including* those that wrap to window width.  It is conceited and
selfish to expect all users to conform to a practice that is good for
one group, and push the wrap-to-window-width folks to the margins.

> BTW, you're only stuck with crap if you buy crap.  Thinkpad ain't
> nearly what it was under IBM, but they definitely ain't crap.  Spend
> your money on a unit that says it performs like a home-theatre
> setup, has an 8 hour battery life, and scores 8000 on 3DMark at
> 1920x1080, and you're bound to uncover a few cut corners after you
> live with it for a while.
>
> I'm typing this on a Thinkpad X31 that I paid maybe $100.00 for 3
> years ago. I did stick a small SSD in for the subjective
> improvement, but it's otherwise "stock".  I don't feel deprived.
> In fact, you can't beat the keyboard, the top lid is stiff enough
> that I don't have to baby it to avoid pressure marks, and it fits
> on the fold-down tray on airplanes.
>
> What I'm trying to say is that with laptops you generally get 2 of
> 3: quality and price, quality and performance, or performance and
> price.  Now that they have to compete with $200.00 Chromebooks and
> the like, all too many vendors are choosing door #3.  I still think
> Thinkpads are the closest to meeting expectations, which isn't to
> say they're the "best", just that they're the least likely to
> disappoint.  Sattelite's have always been, ummm, well, crap, IMHO.
> A red flag is the One Long Screw construction.

The bill for this laptop was $1200 when the typical (decent) laptop
was going for half that.  So it was definitely in the quality and
performance category, or pretending to be.  The web research available
at the time seemed to corroborate.  I paid the premium because I
didn't want the headaches that go with cheap quality.  Yes, there will
always be corners cut.  But of all the things that could be scrimped
on, scrimping on the keyboard and touchpad is like sabotaging the
steering wheel on a high end car.

Finally, the fact that all laptops run Synaptics doesn't mean that all
touchpads are the same.  I've used (and currently use) other laptops
(as do many people, I'm sure), so I would like to think that this is
self evident.  You know, the organization of the synaptics software
settings are pretty similar through the decades, so it's not like
users are unaware of how to explore them for a solution.  And if its
the drivers (Toshiba-specific drivers by the way), that doesn't mean
it's not a problem.

Like I said, good for gaming.  But god forbid you actually compose
text or documents, or require mousepad manipulation.  I mean, you can
*hear* the key mechanically impact as you press, but that doesn't
guarantee electronic registration.  So yes, there ARE hardware
problems.  If they are going to (for all practical purposes) be
dishonest about the narrowness of the true target market, and hide its
limitations, this is bound to cultivate "disappointment".  I don't
believe that any apologies are in order for expressing such
"disappointment".

If anything, it puts information out there, backed by details from
first hand experience.  Information that *I* could have used.  Anyone
looking for such information can decide for themselves how useful it
is.  Not just as an indicator for the product, but as an indicator if
of the vendor.  No, it's not perfect information on where they are
*now*, but if an organization wants to be viewed positively in certain
respects, it really is up to them to build the track record for it.
Besides since when do we have the luxury of perfectly current and
somewhat comprehensive information (which is what I looked for
beforehand)?  We only have the bits that people are willing to offer,
in which there will certainly be a variance, and we have to gauge the
totality of it, no matter how complete or incomplete.  The model is
specified, and consumers of the info can put it into context and
determine how much it serves as an indicator of the present, based on
whatever system or method they want (let's not be dogmatic and say
there is one way to vet information, and that the one right way is
one's own personal way).

I'm hoping that this is more useful than pedantic self-important
snipes at text wrapping, devoid of any useful context for a response.

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#2199

In article <3eeeab49-6f23-45b3-ac89-d30f0df639ef@googlegroups.com>,
 <andymhancock@gmail.com> wrote:
>Now, I've used the vim wrapping feature to hard wrap this message, but

	Emacs: fill-paragraph

	All kidding aside, this is a text medium and lines are traditionally
kept to <80 chars.  Lots of us still use command line readers.

>The bill for this laptop was $1200 when the typical (decent) laptop
>was going for half that.  So it was definitely in the quality and
>performance category, or pretending to be.  The web research available

	Pretending.  Offering $3000.00 worth of features for $1200.00.

>scrimping on the keyboard and touchpad is like sabotaging the

	They didn't cut any corners there.  It's a standard Synaptics.

>Finally, the fact that all laptops run Synaptics doesn't mean that all
>touchpads are the same.  

	Outside of minor individual variations, the only real differences
are Alps or Synaptics, and the drivers.  If the drivers suck try the
reference drivers. (Actually, did Panasonic use their own? Hardware, I mean.)

>I'm hoping that this is more useful than pedantic self-important

	Sure, thanks for posting, but it does contradict most
other experiences.  Guess you got a lemon...

	Hey, buy a new touchpad on Ebay and swap it out.

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#2200

On Monday, April 21, 2014 4:33:05 PM UTC-4, the wharf rat wrote:
>In article <3eeeab49-6f23-45b3-ac89-d30f0df639efATgooglegroups.com>,
> <andymhancockATgmail.com> wrote:
>>Now, I've used the vim wrapping feature to hard wrap this message,
>>but
> 
> 	Emacs: fill-paragraph

Oh, you're one of them, eh?  Well let's take this to another group
then.

Kidding.  It's whatever people have attuned themselves to.

> 	All kidding aside, this is a text medium and lines are
> 	traditionally kept to <80 chars.  Lots of us still use command line
> 	readers.

It is a text medium.  But the means by which many people access it are
changing.  I wasn't kidding when I indicated surprise that readers
can't wrap to window width (command line or not).  In fact, this still
isn't clear to me.  That's why I thought that the rude and arrogant
manner in which Dominic demanded line breaks was in appropriate to say
the least, especially when he wants others to conform to his demands
and it involves a commensurate sacrifice in readability for the
wrap-to-window-width crowd.  Has he even explored the possibility of
wrap to window width in his reader (which he hasn't specified)?  If
so, why hasn't he described the problem?  This is not the kind of
issue for which a good solution will be arrived by shouting the
loudest denunciating beratement.  Furthermore, the 80 character length
in composition isn't going to help with nested quotations, so you're
eventually going to blow that limit anyway.

>> The bill for this laptop was $1200 when the typical (decent) laptop
>> was going for half that.  So it was definitely in the quality and
>> performance category, or pretending to be.  The web research
>> available
> 
> 	Pretending.  Offering $3000.00 worth of features for $1200.00.

How did you value it at $3000?  Even the ticket of $1200 seemed to
cause eyeballs to bulge.  It's not that spectacular in terms of
features.  I'm not one to live on the edge of technology or do high
performance gaming.  The occassional netflix is about as exciting as
it gets, technology wise (and I'm not ashamed to say, life-wise...I
don't look for bungee jumps).

>>scrimping on the keyboard and touchpad is like sabotaging the
> 
> 	They didn't cut any corners there.  It's a standard Synaptics.

It's quite different from any laptop I've used.  It's flush with the
palm rest (no easily discernible tactile boundary, relying only on the
difference in surface coarseness) and supersized.  In fact, I'm
convinced that the super size contributes in part (probably a large
part) to phatom touches when typing.  This is not to say that other
laptops aren't doing this, or that it isn't a trend, but that it is
definitely new in my experience.  I would be very disappointed if this
is a trend.  There was nothing wrong with touchpads in the past, and
they allowed extensive use of the keyboard for composition without
nudging the touchpad.  That's one of the reasons that I don't think
this laptop was designed for anything other than entertainment, and
should have been branded as such to avoid creating "disappointment".
Which is a euphimism for much stronger and more appropriate words.

>>Finally, the fact that all laptops run Synaptics doesn't mean that
>>all touchpads are the same.  
> 
> 	Outside of minor individual variations, the only real differences
> 	are Alps or Synaptics, and the drivers.  If the drivers suck try
> 	the reference drivers. (Actually, did Panasonic use their own?
> 	Hardware, I mean.)

Not sure about Panasonic.  As for reference drivers, I was given
fairly stern warning against doing that by Toshiba.  I trust that
there must be some historical reason for such a strongly prescriptive
tone.

>>I'm hoping that this is more useful than pedantic self-important
> 
> 	Sure, thanks for posting, but it does contradict most other
> 	experiences.  Guess you got a lemon...

Curious...what do you do that exposes you to owners/users of this
specific model at a sufficient volume for you to confidently make
these statements?

> 	Hey, buy a new touchpad on Ebay and swap it out.

I don't trust myself when it comes to laptops.  And my track record
with professional services has been such that if this kind of action
is needed, the laptop is a piece of crap that needs to be tossed out
the window, if only the highrise window could open, and if only it
wasn't dangerous to others, and if only I could bring myself to f..ck
my only laptop.  Heck, I'd have my way with it before tossing it.  It
also means another round of info collecting to get another one.  This
is a highly imprecise undertaking, and my best attempts at rational
due diligence leading to this one didn't work out as planned.  Or
perhaps it did -- perhaps it is the least of evils.

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#2201

andymhancock@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> It is a text medium.  But the means by which many people access it are
> changing.  I wasn't kidding when I indicated surprise that readers
> can't wrap to window width (command line or not).  In fact, this still
> isn't clear to me.

Well part of Usenet's fundmental structure is the "Netiquette" which
for one thing specifies that lines should be wrapped (68 to 76 lines is
the rule I've gone by, though the later link says differently). By rights
all newsreaders should ensure posts are wrapped (with specific exceptions
allowed) before allowing them to be sent because this allows links and
quotes to extend beyond the screen without being wrapped back into the
readable area.

So I think it is in some ways fair, if perhaps optimisticly so, that some
software does not wrap text by default or at all. Really something as
large as Google Groups shouldn't make it so easy to disregard Netiquette;
many newsreaders include text in their documentation instructing new users
to study how to use Usenet properly before diving in.

Anyway, here is one version of Usenet Netiquette:
http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php

And it's hard to resist dropping a link to this good laugh:
http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/96/Apr/netgod.html

Oh, and I use Nano. Really got to put a version with automatic word
wrapping enabled on this machine though, at least it makes you think about
what you write...

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#2206

On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 8:02:40 PM UTC-4, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>andymhancockATgmail.com wrote:
>> It is a text medium.  But the means by which many people access it
>> are changing.  I wasn't kidding when I indicated surprise that
>> readers can't wrap to window width (command line or not).  In fact,
>> this still isn't clear to me.
> 
> Well part of Usenet's fundmental structure is the "Netiquette" which
> for one thing specifies that lines should be wrapped (68 to 76 lines
> is the rule I've gone by, though the later link says differently).
> By rights all newsreaders should ensure posts are wrapped (with
> specific exceptions allowed) before allowing them to be sent because
> this allows links and quotes to extend beyond the screen without
> being wrapped back into the readable area.
> 
> So I think it is in some ways fair, if perhaps optimisticly so, that
> some software does not wrap text by default or at all. Really
> something as large as Google Groups shouldn't make it so easy to
> disregard Netiquette; many newsreaders include text in their
> documentation instructing new users to study how to use Usenet
> properly before diving in.
> 
> Anyway, here is one version of Usenet Netiquette:
> http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php
> 
> And it's hard to resist dropping a link to this good laugh:
> http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/96/Apr/netgod.html

Yes, some of that "wisdom" is decades old, and while I agree with most
of it, I do not condone blind following of past doctrine without
constant re-examination according to prevailing trends.  I've
already articulated my outlook with underlying rationale.  We can, of
course, agree to disagree on the points of non-commonality.  Make no
mistake, however, some of the old rules now make things easier for
*some* people, but make it worse for others (at great manual expense,
unless you happen to be a vi fogey, or even an email cult follower).

Dominic's original response was not of the tone to invite this kind of
(hopefully open minded) discussion, much as he now desparately tries
to spin it self-righteously.

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#2203

* andymhancock@gmail.com <andymhancock@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is a text medium.  But the means by which many people access it are
> changing.  I wasn't kidding when I indicated surprise that readers
> can't wrap to window width (command line or not).  In fact, this still
> isn't clear to me.  That's why I thought that the rude and arrogant
> manner in which Dominic demanded line breaks was in appropriate to say
> the least, especially when he wants others to conform to his demands
> and it involves a commensurate sacrifice in readability for the
> wrap-to-window-width crowd.  Has he even explored the possibility of
> wrap to window width in his reader (which he hasn't specified)?  If
> so, why hasn't he described the problem?  This is not the kind of
> issue for which a good solution will be arrived by shouting the
> loudest denunciating beratement.  Furthermore, the 80 character length
> in composition isn't going to help with nested quotations, so you're
> eventually going to blow that limit anyway.

Oh Andy, so much troube just because of nothing.
I'm sorry if my initial comment sounded rude to you - I only read a
few of the replies yet but I get the feeling you must hate me as if
I would be your worst nightmare.

Initially, I wanted to drop a small fun based comment to the actual
thread's going to maybe get one poster more to produce some well
readable texting.

Meanwhile I get called pretty low and arrogant and whatnot from you
for practically telling you of too long lines (in a funny way I
think, but it might not be so funny to everyone - but still, I'm
only responsible of what I write, not what you understand or
interpret).

Besides all that, I did not /demand/ anything, you're way too much
interpreting into things that actually hold no value. I refrain from
guessing what might be the reason for that as you won't like to hear
it anyway. I can truly live my life without you breaking the lines,
it was a suggestion of mine this time and if you do like it do it,
if not do it not but stop talking to me from the side as this isn't
any nicer if you be honest to yourself.

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