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Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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AndyHancock wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> AndyHancock wrote
>>> AndyHancock <andymhanc...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> AndyHancock wrote

>>>>>> What about if you boot once when the clone is in the eSATA
>>>>>> enclosure, then boot a 2nd time when it is in the laptop...during
>>>>>> that 2nd time, would the clone be already out of the danger zone?

>>>>> Yes it is.

>>>>>> If so, it means that I can have another bootable HDD in the eSATA
>>>>>> enclosure (for example, the source HDD) during bootup.

>>>>> Not during the first boot of the clone after the clone has been created.

>>> Actually, I have one more variation on the above scenarios that I'd
>>> appreciate your expertise on.

>>> Say one of the two HDDs acts as a target for weekly cloning of the
>>> other HDD,

>> It doesnt really make a lot of sense to clone for backup like that.

>> It makes a lot more sense to backup instead of clone, both
>> because of that is much quicker than cloning with incremental
>> backups and because you dont have this problem with the
>> first boot of the clone after the clone has been done.

> I intend to explore that avenue...for now, I just want to be able to
> drop in a replacement if the source HDD gets so bad that any restored
> image is not trustworthy (if the source HDD even works, that is).

OK.

>>> and that both HDDs undergone their virgin booting.

>> You've mangled that considerably. The only time that virgin booting
>> config matters is when booting the clone. You dont actually boot the
>> clone if you are cloning for backujp, you just keep booting the source.

> Perhaps I did mangle it...but the risk factors I'm being careful about
> are that in order to control the boot sequence, I have to enter the
> BIOS.  It's easy to miss the window of opportunity for doing that.
> Granted, I expect the typical BIOS setup to put the internal HDD ahead
> of an external eSATA drive, but I have no experience on which I can
> conclude that this is the case most of the time (in fact, *all* of the time
> would be what I'm after for something with such a huge consequence).

It isnt really that huge a consequence. The worst that can happen is
that you do somehow manage to boot the clone without intending to
do that, and the worst that can do is end up with a clone that wont
boot without the source drive being visible to the clone when booting.

The only thing you have to do then is to just reclone the source again.

Just a nuisance in the very unlikely even that you do manage to boot
the clone accidentally somehow.

> I can't plug in the clone HDD (in eSATA enclosure) after
> the booting because it is not hot-swappable.  So far as
> I've tried, I haven't found a way to make it visible to the
> laptop other than to have it connected during boot time.

You can usually make it visible just by gettng the system to
rescan for devices in the device manageer.

> This means I have to remove the source HDD, unless I want to take my chances and
> catch the time window for entering the BIOS.  Most of the time, I make it, but not always.

You dont have to remove the source HDD, you can just rely on the system
to boot the source HDD and not the clone, even if you do leave the clone
connected to the system on the boot after the clone has been done.

> Also, I've read that making clones and backups
> aren't much good unless they are tested.

You do have to test that the clone is bootable when you first do a clone.

But you dont have to boot the clone every time you do a weekly reclone for backup.

> So I will have to test the clone to ensure that it boots.

Not every time you reclone for backup, every week.

> It's what I do now, but I'm seeking a more convenient way
> of preventing the clone from getting a wrong drive letter.

Just dont bother to boot the clone after every reclone for backup.

If you are really paranoid, you clould try booting the clone
every couple of months, but I wouldnt bother personally.

>> When you boot the source, it doesnt matter that the clone is visible
>> at the time the source is booted after the clone has been done.

>> The only thing you have to be careful about is booting the
>> clone for the first time with the source visible to the clone.

> Understood, and thanks for that clarification.  My
> challenge above is to ensure that I boot from the source.

I'd just rely on the bios to not change the boot drive until you change that manually.

The worst that can happen if it does manage to change the drive it boots off
without you telling it to do that is that you have to reclone again. Just a nuisance.

>>> Say the weekly cloning consists only of cloning the C-drive
>>> (partition 2 of Toshiba's 4-partition setup).  Does cloning only
>>> partition 2 put the target HDD back into its virgin state of never
>>> having been booted from before, thus re-introducing the problem of
>>> making both HDDs unbootable if both are connected during a bootup?

>> No, there is never a problem with booting the source. The problem
>> only every arises when booting the clone for the first time. When
>> you boot  the clone for the first time, the source must not be visible.

>>> As well, is there a web page that describes why this hazard exists?

>> Likely there is, but I havent looked for one.

>>> I'm sure it's very technical,

>> It isnt actually.

>>> so the more layman the better.  Of course, I will take what I can get.

> Someone posted this on another forum:

> http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.shtml
> The first section,"Fixing Windows 2000/XP Drive Letters"

> I found it quite helpful.

The problem isnt actually with drive letters. If you boot the clone after
a clone has been done with the source still visible, it boots fine with
the drive letters the way you expect them to be. The problem is that
once its booted, you will find that if you remove the source drive, you
cant boot anymore. The reason you cant is because the boot of the
clone uses files on the source drive and they arent visible anymore. 

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Thread

Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-01-06 22:57 -0800
  Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-08 07:18 +1100
    Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-01-08 16:17 -0800
      Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-09 13:53 +1100
        Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-01-11 22:22 -0800
          Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-12 19:34 +1100
            Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-01-13 21:08 -0800
              Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-14 16:32 +1100
          Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2012-01-13 11:46 +0000
            Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-13 17:08 +0000
              Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-01-13 21:14 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-14 16:41 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-01-14 21:38 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-15 20:37 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-01-15 21:23 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-16 20:14 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-01-16 20:57 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-17 19:44 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 20:48 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-02-16 16:10 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-16 20:50 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 04:26 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 00:58 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-19 15:04 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-02-20 10:55 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-19 21:27 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-02-20 20:12 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-20 22:50 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-02-21 20:20 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-21 22:08 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-02-22 19:34 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-02-23 05:09 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-22 20:26 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-22 20:46 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-02-23 20:04 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-23 18:49 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-02-24 15:58 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-23 21:09 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-02-24 17:30 +1100
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-02-24 20:39 -0800
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone Winniethepooh@100acrewoods.net (GMAN) - 2012-02-22 15:48 +0000
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-14 18:37 +0000
                Re: Initialize / format 500 GB Momentus XT to make bootable clone AndyHancock <andymhancock@gmail.com> - 2012-01-14 21:42 -0800

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