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Groups > comp.sys.acorn.programmer > #1628
| From | Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.sys.acorn.programmer |
| Subject | Re: Clipboard |
| Date | 2012-04-14 16:18 +0200 |
| Organization | MW Software |
| Message-ID | <e538528052.martin@bach.planiverse.com> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <gemini.m2eu7v001sqn5031g.spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> <mpro.m2fsns04q0yxs02ba.news@stevefryatt.org.uk> <gemini.m2fur300tzko1031g.spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> <d5acfb7f52.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <gemini.m2gmxv0004eox02ds.spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> |
In message <gemini.m2gmxv0004eox02ds.spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyou
rself.co.uk>
Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>
wrote:
> Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> wrote:
>> In message <gemini.m2fur300tzko1031g.spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyou
>> rself.co.uk>
>> Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> So, are you saying that the problem is that Windows can't be made to
>>>> *ask* Uniclip for the current contents whenever a paste is required?
>>
>>> Yes it can ask UniClip to get the current contents of the RO
>>> clipboard, but it has no way of knowing whether that clip is older or
>>> newer than whatever clip is on the Windows clipboard.
>>
>> It does know, and that is what Steve tried to point out in his reply.
>> [..snip..]
>> Great, so at that moment, UniClip *claims* A's clipboard, so that
>> removes precisely the problem you describe in your next paragraph:
> We're talking at cross-purposes, Martin. I was responding to Steve's
> original question, which was why UniClip needed to claim the clipboard, and
> explaining what the situation would be if it didn't do so.
No, not at all. I am referring to exactly the same issue. The crucial
point is that only the *local* claim of the clipboard is disputed
(i.e, the claim on the machine where the COPY happened). See below.
Steve's proposal is viable, but it would work very differently from
the existing UniClip approach, so that might not be feasible in
commercial terms.
The priority should be to fix the current issues, and as we have
established that can be done without changing the existing approach
too much. UniClip can still continue claiming the local clipboard as
long as it makes sure that the native data is still present on the
local clipboard in addition to the text data. That change would solve
almost all issues.
It can be done in a much better way though, which would not only solve
the existing RISC OS clipboard problems, but would also have massively
improved performance (in particular with a view to extending the
system to other data types, most notably bitmaps, which can huge):
The problem with the current approach is that UniClip claims the local
clipboard on the machine where the most recent copy happened, i.e.,
the machine that owns the current clipboard. The question was why that
is necessary because that local claim (in its current form) is
harmful. In the alternative approach that Steve proposed the local
claim would be avoided, but UniClip would still claim the clipboard on
all *other* machines. These other claims are not harmful and they are
required to make the mechanism work.
You can make the Windows clipboard work in exactly the same way as the
RISC OS clipboard, i.e., the data is pulled from the owning
application at the moment a paste happens, so there is no need to push
the data to all the other machines in advance. When a copy happens on
a machine, it is enough for the local UniClip to remember that it is
the holder of the universal clipboard and to send messages around that
make the other UniClip instances claim the clipboard on all the
*other* machines. When a paste happens the data is pulled from the
clipboard owner. If the paste happned on the machine that owns the
universal clipboard the owner is the original application that claimed
the clipboard, not UniClip, so the existing RISC OS protocol works
perfectly. If a paste happens on one of the other machines, UniClip is
the owner and it pulls the data via the network from the UniClip
instance on the machine that owns the universal clipboard.
Apart from fixing all RISC OS clipboard issues, that approach would
have another huge benefit: It would save lots of memory and processing
time because no data would ever be transferred unless it is actually
needed for a paste operation. At the moment, any copy operation
anywhere in the network prompts UniClip to retrieve and transfer the
data to all other machines in the network, which is very wasteful
because most of the transferred data will never be needed.
--
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/
RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Clipboard Alan Wrigley <alan@alanwrigley.com> - 2012-04-12 23:01 +0100
Re: Clipboard Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-04-12 23:32 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 09:50 +0100
Re: Clipboard Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-04-13 22:11 +0100
Re: Clipboard Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-12 23:46 +0100
Re: Clipboard Fred Graute <fjgraute@casema.nl> - 2012-04-13 02:19 +0200
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 10:16 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 10:15 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 10:30 +0100
Re: Clipboard Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 13:35 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 14:26 +0100
Re: Clipboard Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> - 2012-04-13 16:42 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 17:04 +0100
Re: Clipboard Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 21:43 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 23:21 +0100
Re: Clipboard Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 13:41 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 14:29 +0100
Re: Clipboard Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 21:52 +0100
Re: Clipboard Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> - 2012-04-13 16:13 +0200
Re: Clipboard Fred Graute <fjgraute@casema.nl> - 2012-04-13 02:19 +0200
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 09:57 +0100
Re: Clipboard Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-04-13 22:21 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 23:06 +0100
Re: Clipboard Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> - 2012-04-14 00:33 +0200
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-14 09:15 +0100
Re: Clipboard Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> - 2012-04-14 16:18 +0200
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-14 17:02 +0100
Re: Clipboard Fred Graute <fjgraute@casema.nl> - 2012-04-15 02:12 +0200
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-15 11:46 +0100
Re: Clipboard "John Williams (News)" <UCEbin@tiscali.co.uk> - 2012-04-15 13:09 +0200
Re: Clipboard Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> - 2012-04-14 21:08 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-14 21:22 +0100
Re: Clipboard Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-04-13 23:54 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-14 09:17 +0100
Re: Clipboard Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-04-14 10:48 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-14 11:07 +0100
Re: Clipboard Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-04-14 11:31 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-14 12:14 +0100
Re: Clipboard Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-04-14 12:53 +0100
Re: Clipboard Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-04-14 14:30 +0100
Re: Clipboard Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> - 2012-04-17 18:46 +0100
Re: Clipboard Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-20 05:52 +0200
Re: Clipboard Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-20 23:15 +0100
Re: Clipboard Vince M Hudd <vinceh@softrock.co.uk> - 2012-04-21 11:01 +0100
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