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Re: Dice: mechanical vs electrical

From "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c, comp.lang.clipper, comp.lang.ada, comp.programming, alt.comp.freeware, alt.conspiracy
Subject Re: Dice: mechanical vs electrical
Date 2016-12-12 22:51 +0800
Organization Hung Hom, Kowloon, Hong Kong
Message-ID <o2mded$kjs$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <o2jiap$oo0$1@dont-email.me> <o2ksv5$dlp$1@node1.news.atman.pl>

Cross-posted to 6 groups.

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On 12/12/2016 9:02 AM, bartekltg wrote:
> On 11.12.2016 13:56, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>>
>> How to determine whether a random number generator is fake?
>
> Test it.
> Then test it for stronger p-value...
>
> https://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/General/dieharder.php
> The documentation is inside the archive, you have to compile
> it using TeX.
>
> http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/toolkit/rng/batteries_stats_test.html
>
>
>> How to determine whether a random number generator is cheating?
>
> How RG can cheat? You mean generated numbers are biased?
> Great, it is quite easy to test!
> ;-)
>
> You mean that it is not real random number generator,
> but PRNG?
> Yes, probably is ;-)
> The real RNG use 'entrophy form OS' (slow) or special CPU
> instruction (many people thint they aren't the best).
>
> If you use it for cryptography, you need use real one.
> You also need do read... a lot.
>
> For other purposes, use real RNG to seed your PRNG,
> if you want to be fancy.
>
>> How do you catch bad programming, algorithm designers and
>> mathematicians? Use MP3 and JPEG encoding as examples, which involves
>> something called Fourier Transform! :)
>
> https://www.ipa.go.jp/files/000011794.pdf
> page 27
>
> http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-22-rev1a/SP800-22rev1a.pdf [the
> same document I tihnk]
>
> https://www.random.org/analysis/Analysis2005.pdf
>
> And probably this will be helpful
> https://www.random.org/analysis/
> https://www.random.org/randomness/

Maybe we should forget about true randomness from digital, electronic 
dice. Then stop calling them "random number", not even "digital random 
number"!!!!!  :)

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Thread

Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 20:56 +0800
  Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-12-11 08:48 -0600
    Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 00:00 +0800
      Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 16:42 -0600
        Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:11 +0800
          Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? FromTheRafters <erratic@nomail.afraid.org> - 2016-12-12 10:00 -0500
            Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 23:03 +0800
              Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2016-12-12 07:08 -0800
              Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? FromTheRafters <erratic@nomail.afraid.org> - 2016-12-12 10:17 -0500
                Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 23:30 +0800
                Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? FromTheRafters <erratic@nomail.afraid.org> - 2016-12-12 10:57 -0500
        Re: The real and fair DIce of Solomon? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:13 +0800
  Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 00:05 +0800
  Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 00:46 +0800
    Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-12 01:44 +0100
  Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 02:02 +0100
    Re: Dice: mechanical vs electrical "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:51 +0800
      Re: Dice: mechanical vs electrical bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 20:17 +0100
  Re: Fake randomness is still random? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:15 +0800
    Re: Fake randomness is still random? Johan Nel <johan.nel@xsinet.co.za> - 2016-12-12 16:46 +0200
      Re: Fake randomness is still random? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:49 +0800
        Re: Fake randomness is still random? Adam Jensen <hanzer@riseup.net> - 2016-12-12 10:35 -0500
          Re: Fake randomness is still random? Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2016-12-12 07:56 -0800
    Re: Fake randomness is still random? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-12 16:41 +0000
      Re: Fake randomness is still random? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 17:45 +0100
      Re: Fake randomness is still random? root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2016-12-12 16:51 +0000
        Re: Fake randomness is still random? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 18:10 +0100
          Re: Randomness and Taro "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 02:28 +0800
        Re: From randomness to astrology "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 02:28 +0800
  Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2016-12-13 14:35 -0500
    Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-12-13 12:38 -0700
      Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2016-12-14 14:45 -0500
    Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 21:02 +0000
    Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2016-12-15 22:08 +0100

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