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Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers?

From bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c, comp.lang.clipper, comp.lang.ada, comp.programming, alt.comp.freeware, alt.conspiracy
Subject Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers?
Date 2016-12-12 02:02 +0100
Organization ATMAN - ATM S.A.
Message-ID <o2ksv5$dlp$1@node1.news.atman.pl> (permalink)
References <o2jiap$oo0$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 6 groups.

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On 11.12.2016 13:56, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>
> How to determine whether a random number generator is fake?

Test it.
Then test it for stronger p-value...

https://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/General/dieharder.php
The documentation is inside the archive, you have to compile
it using TeX.

http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/toolkit/rng/batteries_stats_test.html


> How to determine whether a random number generator is cheating?

How RG can cheat? You mean generated numbers are biased?
Great, it is quite easy to test!
;-)

You mean that it is not real random number generator,
but PRNG?
Yes, probably is ;-)
The real RNG use 'entrophy form OS' (slow) or special CPU
instruction (many people thint they aren't the best).

If you use it for cryptography, you need use real one.
You also need do read... a lot.

For other purposes, use real RNG to seed your PRNG,
if you want to be fancy.

> How do you catch bad programming, algorithm designers and
> mathematicians? Use MP3 and JPEG encoding as examples, which involves
> something called Fourier Transform! :)

https://www.ipa.go.jp/files/000011794.pdf
page 27

http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-22-rev1a/SP800-22rev1a.pdf 
[the same document I tihnk]

https://www.random.org/analysis/Analysis2005.pdf

And probably this will be helpful
https://www.random.org/analysis/
https://www.random.org/randomness/

bartekltg

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Thread

Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 20:56 +0800
  Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-12-11 08:48 -0600
    Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 00:00 +0800
      Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 16:42 -0600
        Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:11 +0800
          Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? FromTheRafters <erratic@nomail.afraid.org> - 2016-12-12 10:00 -0500
            Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 23:03 +0800
              Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2016-12-12 07:08 -0800
              Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? FromTheRafters <erratic@nomail.afraid.org> - 2016-12-12 10:17 -0500
                Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 23:30 +0800
                Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? FromTheRafters <erratic@nomail.afraid.org> - 2016-12-12 10:57 -0500
        Re: The real and fair DIce of Solomon? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:13 +0800
  Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 00:05 +0800
  Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 00:46 +0800
    Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-12 01:44 +0100
  Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 02:02 +0100
    Re: Dice: mechanical vs electrical "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:51 +0800
      Re: Dice: mechanical vs electrical bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 20:17 +0100
  Re: Fake randomness is still random? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:15 +0800
    Re: Fake randomness is still random? Johan Nel <johan.nel@xsinet.co.za> - 2016-12-12 16:46 +0200
      Re: Fake randomness is still random? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:49 +0800
        Re: Fake randomness is still random? Adam Jensen <hanzer@riseup.net> - 2016-12-12 10:35 -0500
          Re: Fake randomness is still random? Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2016-12-12 07:56 -0800
    Re: Fake randomness is still random? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-12 16:41 +0000
      Re: Fake randomness is still random? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 17:45 +0100
      Re: Fake randomness is still random? root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2016-12-12 16:51 +0000
        Re: Fake randomness is still random? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 18:10 +0100
          Re: Randomness and Taro "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 02:28 +0800
        Re: From randomness to astrology "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 02:28 +0800
  Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2016-12-13 14:35 -0500
    Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-12-13 12:38 -0700
      Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2016-12-14 14:45 -0500
    Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 21:02 +0000
    Re: Fake random numbers? Bad programmers? Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2016-12-15 22:08 +0100

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