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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #75070 > unrolled thread

Floppies - Actual Question

Started byc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
First post2025-09-24 00:02 -0400
Last post2025-09-28 01:00 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 180 — 23 participants

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Contents

  Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-24 00:02 -0400
    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-24 05:06 +0000
      Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-24 05:43 +0000
        Re: Floppies - Actual Question Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-27 15:21 +0000
          Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-27 14:17 -0400
            Re: Floppies - Actual Question Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-27 22:31 +0000
              Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-28 00:26 +0000
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-28 01:21 +0000
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-28 10:21 +0000
                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-28 19:27 +0000
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-10-04 09:37 +0000
                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-04 12:04 -0700
                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-29 14:12 +0200
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-10-04 09:43 +0000
                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-04 15:22 +0000
                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-04 17:38 +0100
                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-04 20:34 +0200
                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-10-04 20:53 +0000
                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-10-04 22:56 +0100
                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-05 09:51 +0100
                            Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-06 02:17 -0400
                            Re: Floppies - Actual Question Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-10-07 09:56 +0100
                              Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-08 01:55 -0400
                                Re: Floppies - Actual Question Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-10-08 12:58 +0100
                                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 02:36 -0400
                              Re: Floppies - Actual Question John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-10-08 09:02 -0700
                                Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-08 17:35 +0100
                                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-10 09:29 +0200
                                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-10 09:58 +0100
                                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-10 13:45 +0200
                                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-10 14:02 +0100
                                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-10 21:17 +0200
                                            Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-11 00:55 +0000
                                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 02:35 -0400
                                Partitioning (was Re: Floppies - Actual Question "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 14:54 -0400
                                  Re: Partitioning (was Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-08 21:15 +0000
                                  Re: Partitioning (was Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-09 12:35 +0100
                                Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-08 21:13 +0000
                                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-10-08 14:29 -0700
                                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-09 12:37 +0100
                                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-09 15:07 +0000
                                        inodes, customizing partitions "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-10 09:45 +0200
                                          Re: inodes, customizing partitions c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 00:57 -0400
                                            Re: inodes, customizing partitions "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-11 15:28 +0200
                                              Re: inodes, customizing partitions Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-11 23:46 +0100
                                                Re: inodes, customizing partitions "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-12 02:42 +0200
                                                  Re: inodes, customizing partitions c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-13 03:13 -0400
                                                    Re: inodes, customizing partitions "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-13 10:53 +0200
                                                Re: inodes, customizing partitions c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 22:49 -0400
                                              Re: inodes, customizing partitions c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 21:51 -0400
                                              Re: inodes, customizing partitions c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-13 03:10 -0400
                                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-10-09 09:00 -0700
                                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 21:24 -0400
                                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-10 09:52 +0100
                                            Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 01:45 -0400
                                              Re: Floppies - Actual Question Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-10-11 17:48 +0000
                                                Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 22:11 -0400
                                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 02:56 -0400
                                Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 02:50 -0400
                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-05 20:25 +0000
                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-04 20:35 +0200
              Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-28 09:55 +0100
              Re: Floppies - Actual Question Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-28 11:08 +0100
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-28 12:19 +0000
                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-28 15:07 +0100
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-28 15:36 +0100
                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-28 23:35 +0000
                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-29 00:28 +0000
                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-28 21:08 -0400
                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-29 05:31 +0000
                            Re: Floppies - Actual Question Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-29 16:32 +0000
                              Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 18:36 +0100
                              Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-29 19:30 +0000
                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 10:12 +0100
                            Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-29 19:33 +0000
                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-09-29 19:50 +0000
                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-28 15:31 +0100
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-29 14:15 +0200
                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-29 08:18 -0700
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-29 19:27 +0000
            Re: Floppies - Actual Question Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-09-28 00:31 +0000
              Re: Floppies - Actual Question Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-28 11:19 +0100
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-28 15:22 +0100
                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-28 18:07 +0000
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-28 19:18 +0000
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-28 23:55 +0100
            Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-28 09:53 +0100
            Re: Floppies - Actual Question Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2025-10-02 18:28 +1000
              Re: Floppies - Actual Question Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2025-10-02 21:44 +0300
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-03 00:10 +0100
                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-03 00:35 -0400
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-03 00:32 -0400
              Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-03 00:21 -0400
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2025-10-04 12:55 +1000
    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-09-24 06:49 +0100
      Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-24 11:45 +0100
        Re: Floppies - Actual Question Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-24 16:53 +0000
          Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-24 14:35 -0400
          Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-24 15:05 -0400
            Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-24 21:32 -0400
          Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-24 20:38 +0000
            Re: Floppies - Actual Question rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-25 00:04 +0000
              Re: Floppies - Actual Question Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2025-09-25 00:44 +0000
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-24 20:58 -0400
                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 13:07 +0200
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 12:48 +0100
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-25 15:52 -0400
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-25 22:09 +0000
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 09:44 +0100
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 13:04 +0200
                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 12:48 +0100
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 22:15 +0200
                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-25 21:06 -0400
                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-25 22:10 +0000
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-25 21:09 -0400
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-06 22:08 +0000
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-06 23:30 -0400
                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-07 15:16 +0000
                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-08 02:34 +0200
                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-08 01:05 -0400
                            Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-08 10:58 +0200
                              Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-08 11:06 +0100
                              Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-08 14:14 +0200
                                Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 02:44 -0400
                                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-09 21:10 +0200
                                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 21:36 -0400
                                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-10 09:54 +0100
                                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 01:57 -0400
                                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-10 13:49 +0200
                                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 02:29 -0400
                                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-11 14:32 +0200
                                Re: Floppies - Actual Question Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-10-09 12:50 +0200
                                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-09 21:11 +0200
                                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 21:37 -0400
                                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-10-10 11:19 +0200
                                      Phone wallet "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-10 13:51 +0200
                                        Re: Phone wallet c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 02:30 -0400
                                          Re: Phone wallet "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-11 14:32 +0200
                                            Re: Phone wallet c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 21:35 -0400
                                              Re: Phone wallet "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-12 14:48 +0200
                                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 21:17 -0400
                                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-10-10 06:51 +0000
                                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-10 03:29 -0400
                                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-10 09:55 +0100
                                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 02:10 -0400
                              Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-08 13:18 +0100
                                Re: Floppies - Actual Question Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2025-10-09 03:09 +0000
                                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 02:58 -0400
                                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-09 12:45 +0100
                                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2025-10-10 02:53 +0000
                                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 23:44 -0400
                                Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 02:45 -0400
                              Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-09 02:38 -0400
                              Re: Floppies - Actual Question Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-09 15:16 +0000
                                Faraday cages (was: Re: Floppies - Actual Question) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-09 17:02 +0100
                                  Re: Faraday cages Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-09 18:48 +0000
                                  Re: Faraday cages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-10 09:49 +0100
                                Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-10 09:47 +0100
                                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-11 01:05 -0400
                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-08 01:52 -0400
                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-08 01:38 -0400
              Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-24 20:45 -0400
                Re: Floppies - Actual Question rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-25 05:27 +0000
                  Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-25 15:42 -0400
                    Re: Floppies - Actual Question rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-26 04:59 +0000
                      Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-26 01:36 -0400
                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-27 09:12 +0100
                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-27 13:58 -0400
                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-27 03:11 -0400
                          Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-29 14:22 +0200
                            Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-29 23:03 -0400
                              Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-30 09:32 +0200
                        Re: Floppies - Actual Question Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-09-26 15:19 +0000
            Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-24 20:23 -0400
              Re: Floppies - Actual Question The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 09:45 +0100
    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-09-24 08:41 +0200
    Re: Floppies - Actual Question "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-24 12:04 +0200
      Re: Floppies - Actual Question c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-24 14:34 -0400
    Re: Floppies - Actual Question John McCue <jmclnx@SPAMisBADgmail.com> - 2025-09-24 17:11 +0000
    Re: Floppies - Actual Question Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2025-09-28 01:00 -0700

Page 8 of 9 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9  Next page →


#75855

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2025-10-09 21:17 -0400
Message-ID<JRydnaDwbsZfw3X1nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#75831
On 10/9/25 06:50, Joerg Walther wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> You can buy wallets that claim to be shielded. For NFC.
> 
> Nowadays I only use my phone to pay which does not proceed with the
> payment until I authorize it with my fingerprint.

   You gave Russia your fingerprint ???

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#75868

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2025-10-10 06:51 +0000
Message-ID<W12GQ.3083$UNYc.1450@fx05.iad>
In reply to#75855
On 2025-10-10, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

> On 10/9/25 06:50, Joerg Walther wrote:
>
>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> 
>>> You can buy wallets that claim to be shielded. For NFC.
>> 
>> Nowadays I only use my phone to pay which does not proceed with the
>> payment until I authorize it with my fingerprint.
>
>    You gave Russia your fingerprint ???

No, just Google.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#75873

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2025-10-10 03:29 -0400
Message-ID<t5qcnS3ojIJ_KHX1nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#75868
On 10/10/25 02:51, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2025-10-10, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/9/25 06:50, Joerg Walther wrote:
>>
>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> You can buy wallets that claim to be shielded. For NFC.
>>>
>>> Nowadays I only use my phone to pay which does not proceed with the
>>> payment until I authorize it with my fingerprint.
>>
>>     You gave Russia your fingerprint ???
> 
> No, just Google.

   So, Russia.

   Vlad's boyz have proven they can penetrate
   anything Google.

   And Google is "Too Big To Care".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#75883

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-10-10 09:55 +0100
Message-ID<10cahlg$3u22g$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#75868
On 10/10/2025 07:51, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2025-10-10, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/9/25 06:50, Joerg Walther wrote:
>>
>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> You can buy wallets that claim to be shielded. For NFC.
>>>
>>> Nowadays I only use my phone to pay which does not proceed with the
>>> payment until I authorize it with my fingerprint.
>>
>>     You gave Russia your fingerprint ???
> 
> No, just Google.
> 
Is there a difference these days?

-- 
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

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#75922

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2025-10-11 02:10 -0400
Message-ID<g-ecnY6NGMYhaXT1nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#75883
On 10/10/25 04:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 10/10/2025 07:51, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2025-10-10, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/9/25 06:50, Joerg Walther wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You can buy wallets that claim to be shielded. For NFC.
>>>>
>>>> Nowadays I only use my phone to pay which does not proceed with the
>>>> payment until I authorize it with my fingerprint.
>>>
>>>     You gave Russia your fingerprint ???
>>
>> No, just Google.
>>
> Is there a difference these days?

   Nope.

   Vlad's boyz are into EVERYTHING, easily.
   State resources, porn vids and lots of
   caffeine/Adderal ... what else could any
   pubescent hacker want ? They'll hack
   until they drop.

   Hmmm ... remember when 'biometrics' were
   supposed to be perfect ? Well, ONLY until
   The Foe gets a copy of your biometric sig.
   Then DARE claim it wasn't you who bought
   100,000 in BitCoins ...

   Horrible truth - there IS NO 'perfect', or
   anything close, these days. The cold war has
   turned warm and They ARE out to get us and
   have vast resources to do so. China just
   recently proved it could get deep into all
   US phone systems. Even big corps, indeed
   even a US credit-lord company, get totally
   sucked at a whim.

   But nobody DARES admit what it MEANS. TOO
   much invested/trusted in "online" shit.

   And no, there's no electronic fix ... the
   attacker ALWAYS has the advantage.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#75793

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-10-08 13:18 +0100
Message-ID<10c5kqp$1j0pj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#75787
On 08/10/2025 13:10, Stefan Ram wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>> There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent
>> invention. We simply did not know. We invented the urban legends.
> 
>    Some people around here are walking around with those
>    RFID cards today, and they're thinking about wrapping
>    them in aluminum foil to make it harder to scan them.
> 
> 
That may well be true

-- 
It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee-house 
for the voice of the kingdom.

Jonathan Swift

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#75817

FromRobert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net>
Date2025-10-09 03:09 +0000
Message-ID<slrn10ee9rk.7di.spamtrap42@one.localnet>
In reply to#75793
On 2025-10-08, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 08/10/2025 13:10, Stefan Ram wrote:
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>> There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent
>>> invention. We simply did not know. We invented the urban legends.
>> 
>>    Some people around here are walking around with those
>>    RFID cards today, and they're thinking about wrapping
>>    them in aluminum foil to make it harder to scan them.
>> 
>> 
> That may well be true

Did the test.

My second-to-most-recent emplyer had NFC/RFID badge cards that
each employee was required to scan at the lobby when entering a
facility.  For the test of one of the metal-lined sleeves, I
asked the "guard" at the desk for permission to test the sleeve
by doing an experiment to see whether the ID badge card could be
read while inside the sleeve.  The "guard" said he would watch
his monitor while I attempted to scan the sleeved badge card.  He
said his system could not see that the badge card existed while
it was in the sleeve.  Outside the sleeve, the badge card worked
perfectly.

Based on that test, it appears that sleeve was sufficient to
sheild at least the type of NFC/RFID used in that badge card.

-- 
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#75828

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2025-10-09 02:58 -0400
Message-ID<DIednYUSz4CMwHr1nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#75817
On 10/8/25 23:09, Robert Riches wrote:
> On 2025-10-08, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 08/10/2025 13:10, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>> There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent
>>>> invention. We simply did not know. We invented the urban legends.
>>>
>>>     Some people around here are walking around with those
>>>     RFID cards today, and they're thinking about wrapping
>>>     them in aluminum foil to make it harder to scan them.
>>>
>>>
>> That may well be true
> 
> Did the test.
> 
> My second-to-most-recent emplyer had NFC/RFID badge cards that
> each employee was required to scan at the lobby when entering a
> facility.  For the test of one of the metal-lined sleeves, I
> asked the "guard" at the desk for permission to test the sleeve
> by doing an experiment to see whether the ID badge card could be
> read while inside the sleeve.  The "guard" said he would watch
> his monitor while I attempted to scan the sleeved badge card.  He
> said his system could not see that the badge card existed while
> it was in the sleeve.  Outside the sleeve, the badge card worked
> perfectly.
> 
> Based on that test, it appears that sleeve was sufficient to
> sheild at least the type of NFC/RFID used in that badge card.


   Doesn't take much to block the HF signal used
   to read the cards.

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#75838

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-10-09 12:45 +0100
Message-ID<10c8788$2kf2m$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#75817
On 09/10/2025 04:09, Robert Riches wrote:
> On 2025-10-08, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 08/10/2025 13:10, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>> There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent
>>>> invention. We simply did not know. We invented the urban legends.
>>>
>>>     Some people around here are walking around with those
>>>     RFID cards today, and they're thinking about wrapping
>>>     them in aluminum foil to make it harder to scan them.
>>>
>>>
>> That may well be true
> 
> Did the test.
> 
> My second-to-most-recent emplyer had NFC/RFID badge cards that
> each employee was required to scan at the lobby when entering a
> facility.  For the test of one of the metal-lined sleeves, I
> asked the "guard" at the desk for permission to test the sleeve
> by doing an experiment to see whether the ID badge card could be
> read while inside the sleeve.  The "guard" said he would watch
> his monitor while I attempted to scan the sleeved badge card.  He
> said his system could not see that the badge card existed while
> it was in the sleeve.  Outside the sleeve, the badge card worked
> perfectly.
> 
> Based on that test, it appears that sleeve was sufficient to
> sheild at least the type of NFC/RFID used in that badge card.
> 
Good. My time designing radios inside tin boxes was not wasted then!
Irrelevant factoid. Back when I was involved in professional RF design, 
there was a rule of thumb, which more or less said 'you will never get a 
design stable unless it has less gain that 20 dB per inch of separation 
between stages'. It was surprisingly accurate. But then we started 
needing to pack all this stuff into small guided missiles, and as the 
parts got smaller so did the permissible separation. Then we started 
building little tin walls round each stage and got it even smaller...and 
when ICs game along they were so small that the radiation coupling 
between input and output was soi low that they could cram 60dB into a 
single chip.

Tinfoil blocks RF. Juts come to my house which uses foil backed 
plasterboard everywhere. we ordered some for the bathrooms and over 
ordered so we used it everywhere.
Cant get a wifi signal from one room to another at all.


-- 
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism 
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans, 
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and 
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a 
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,' 
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for 
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet 
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that 
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian 
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

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#75863

FromRobert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net>
Date2025-10-10 02:53 +0000
Message-ID<slrn10egt97.tgq.spamtrap42@one.localnet>
In reply to#75838
On 2025-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 09/10/2025 04:09, Robert Riches wrote:
>> On 2025-10-08, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 08/10/2025 13:10, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>>> There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent
>>>>> invention. We simply did not know. We invented the urban legends.
>>>>
>>>>     Some people around here are walking around with those
>>>>     RFID cards today, and they're thinking about wrapping
>>>>     them in aluminum foil to make it harder to scan them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That may well be true
>> 
>> Did the test.
>> 
>> My second-to-most-recent emplyer had NFC/RFID badge cards that
>> each employee was required to scan at the lobby when entering a
>> facility.  For the test of one of the metal-lined sleeves, I
>> asked the "guard" at the desk for permission to test the sleeve
>> by doing an experiment to see whether the ID badge card could be
>> read while inside the sleeve.  The "guard" said he would watch
>> his monitor while I attempted to scan the sleeved badge card.  He
>> said his system could not see that the badge card existed while
>> it was in the sleeve.  Outside the sleeve, the badge card worked
>> perfectly.
>> 
>> Based on that test, it appears that sleeve was sufficient to
>> sheild at least the type of NFC/RFID used in that badge card.
>> 
> Good. My time designing radios inside tin boxes was not wasted then!
> Irrelevant factoid. Back when I was involved in professional RF design, 
> there was a rule of thumb, which more or less said 'you will never get a 
> design stable unless it has less gain that 20 dB per inch of separation 
> between stages'. It was surprisingly accurate. But then we started 
> needing to pack all this stuff into small guided missiles, and as the 
> parts got smaller so did the permissible separation. Then we started 
> building little tin walls round each stage and got it even smaller...and 
> when ICs game along they were so small that the radiation coupling 
> between input and output was soi low that they could cram 60dB into a 
> single chip.
>
> Tinfoil blocks RF. Juts come to my house which uses foil backed 
> plasterboard everywhere. we ordered some for the bathrooms and over 
> ordered so we used it everywhere.
> Cant get a wifi signal from one room to another at all.

On a house, aluminum siding also attenuates (US bands) AM (and I
think FM) broadcast radio.  A couple of decades ago, I lived in a
house with aluminum siding.  Enough signal got through to listen,
but the SNR was not as good as it would have been without the
aluminum.

On a little different angle of RF oddities, in a house without
aluminum siding but possibly with foil-backed fiberglass
insulation in the exterior walls, my Casio G-Shock watch (near
Portland, Oregon, USA) had great difficulty receiving the 60kHz
signal from WWVB.  Even outdoors, reception was not very
reliable.  However, ever since getting Comcast Xfinity internet
over coax, indoor reception is fairly close to flawless.  Most
nights, it sets at 12:03am, which is the best possible case.  My
hunch is the above-ground (pun not intended) TV distribution
system and the coax from the utility pole to the house act as a
passive antenna booster for the watch.

-- 
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#75864

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2025-10-09 23:44 -0400
Message-ID<t5qcnTfojIKUHHX1nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#75863
On 10/9/25 22:53, Robert Riches wrote:
> On 2025-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 09/10/2025 04:09, Robert Riches wrote:
>>> On 2025-10-08, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 08/10/2025 13:10, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>>>> There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent
>>>>>> invention. We simply did not know. We invented the urban legends.
>>>>>
>>>>>      Some people around here are walking around with those
>>>>>      RFID cards today, and they're thinking about wrapping
>>>>>      them in aluminum foil to make it harder to scan them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> That may well be true
>>>
>>> Did the test.
>>>
>>> My second-to-most-recent emplyer had NFC/RFID badge cards that
>>> each employee was required to scan at the lobby when entering a
>>> facility.  For the test of one of the metal-lined sleeves, I
>>> asked the "guard" at the desk for permission to test the sleeve
>>> by doing an experiment to see whether the ID badge card could be
>>> read while inside the sleeve.  The "guard" said he would watch
>>> his monitor while I attempted to scan the sleeved badge card.  He
>>> said his system could not see that the badge card existed while
>>> it was in the sleeve.  Outside the sleeve, the badge card worked
>>> perfectly.
>>>
>>> Based on that test, it appears that sleeve was sufficient to
>>> sheild at least the type of NFC/RFID used in that badge card.
>>>
>> Good. My time designing radios inside tin boxes was not wasted then!
>> Irrelevant factoid. Back when I was involved in professional RF design,
>> there was a rule of thumb, which more or less said 'you will never get a
>> design stable unless it has less gain that 20 dB per inch of separation
>> between stages'. It was surprisingly accurate. But then we started
>> needing to pack all this stuff into small guided missiles, and as the
>> parts got smaller so did the permissible separation. Then we started
>> building little tin walls round each stage and got it even smaller...and
>> when ICs game along they were so small that the radiation coupling
>> between input and output was soi low that they could cram 60dB into a
>> single chip.
>>
>> Tinfoil blocks RF. Juts come to my house which uses foil backed
>> plasterboard everywhere. we ordered some for the bathrooms and over
>> ordered so we used it everywhere.
>> Cant get a wifi signal from one room to another at all.
> 
> On a house, aluminum siding also attenuates (US bands) AM (and I
> think FM) broadcast radio.  A couple of decades ago, I lived in a
> house with aluminum siding.  Enough signal got through to listen,
> but the SNR was not as good as it would have been without the
> aluminum.
> 
> On a little different angle of RF oddities, in a house without
> aluminum siding but possibly with foil-backed fiberglass
> insulation in the exterior walls, my Casio G-Shock watch (near
> Portland, Oregon, USA) had great difficulty receiving the 60kHz
> signal from WWVB.  Even outdoors, reception was not very
> reliable.  However, ever since getting Comcast Xfinity internet
> over coax, indoor reception is fairly close to flawless.  Most
> nights, it sets at 12:03am, which is the best possible case.  My
> hunch is the above-ground (pun not intended) TV distribution
> system and the coax from the utility pole to the house act as a
> passive antenna booster for the watch.

   Thin aluminum IS good RF shielding - the higher the
   freq the better it works.

   You need iron for MAGNETIC shielding, but that's a
   whole separate issue - and covered in this thread.

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#75824

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2025-10-09 02:45 -0400
Message-ID<DIednYkSz4Cdx3r1nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#75793
On 10/8/25 08:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 08/10/2025 13:10, Stefan Ram wrote:
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>> There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent
>>> invention. We simply did not know. We invented the urban legends.
>>
>>    Some people around here are walking around with those
>>    RFID cards today, and they're thinking about wrapping
>>    them in aluminum foil to make it harder to scan them.
>>
>>
> That may well be true

   Is true.

   Made my own.

   There are also commercial products advertised.

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#75822

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2025-10-09 02:38 -0400
Message-ID<DIednY8Sz4DpxXr1nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#75787
On 10/8/25 08:10, Stefan Ram wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>> There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent
>> invention. We simply did not know. We invented the urban legends.
> 
>    Some people around here are walking around with those
>    RFID cards today, and they're thinking about wrapping
>    them in aluminum foil to make it harder to scan them.

   Have a layer of metallized mylar in my wallet  :-)

   Cheap, easy, sure as hell doesn't hurt anything.

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#75842

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2025-10-09 15:16 +0000
Message-ID<10c8jko$2tcv3$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#75787
Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent 
>>invention.  We simply did not know.  We invented the urban legends.
> 
>   Some people around here are walking around with those RFID cards 
>   today, and they're thinking about wrapping them in aluminum foil to 
>   make it harder to scan them.

Given that RFID is electromagnetic (radio) comms, and very low power, 
an aluminum foil wrap (creating an ungrounded Faraday cage) just might 
attenuate the signal enough to prevent a "read" from happening.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#75844 — Faraday cages (was: Re: Floppies - Actual Question)

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-10-09 17:02 +0100
SubjectFaraday cages (was: Re: Floppies - Actual Question)
Message-ID<10c8mb0$2vjfu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#75842
On 2025-10-09, Rich wrote:

> Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent 
>>>invention.  We simply did not know.  We invented the urban legends.
>> 
>>   Some people around here are walking around with those RFID cards 
>>   today, and they're thinking about wrapping them in aluminum foil to 
>>   make it harder to scan them.
>
> Given that RFID is electromagnetic (radio) comms, and very low power, 
> an aluminum foil wrap (creating an ungrounded Faraday cage) just might 
> attenuate the signal enough to prevent a "read" from happening.

Doesn't it need a non-conductive layer too? What is the state of the art
for cheap shielding of contactless smartcards?

-- 
Nuno Silva

(No, enclosing in carbonite is not a feasible option, for reasons.)

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#75845 — Re: Faraday cages

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2025-10-09 18:48 +0000
SubjectRe: Faraday cages
Message-ID<10c901k$3600i$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#75844
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2025-10-09, Rich wrote:
> 
>> Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>>There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent 
>>>>invention.  We simply did not know.  We invented the urban legends.
>>> 
>>>   Some people around here are walking around with those RFID cards 
>>>   today, and they're thinking about wrapping them in aluminum foil to 
>>>   make it harder to scan them.
>>
>> Given that RFID is electromagnetic (radio) comms, and very low power, 
>> an aluminum foil wrap (creating an ungrounded Faraday cage) just might 
>> attenuate the signal enough to prevent a "read" from happening.
> 
> Doesn't it need a non-conductive layer too? What is the state of the art
> for cheap shielding of contactless smartcards?

No, a metal is an 'rf absorber' in any case.  Wrapping the card in 
metal foil just makes the "absorber" a faraday cage (an rf absorber 
surrounding the item being shielded).

A proper faraday cage should be grounded, but at the miniscule power 
levels of RFID chips, the fact that the foil is ungrounded is not much 
of a concern.

And, in any case, the outer paper/plastic of the card itself would be a 
'non-conductive layer' if one were needed.

As an example, $work deployed some many years ago new id badges with 
RFID chips embedded inside, and the corresponding "readers" on the 
doors/access areas to read the card and open (or refuse) depending on 
whether the card was authorized.

They also supplied a plastic "badge holder" that was a two part device 
with a hinge at one end (and a handle at that same end to actuate the 
hinge).  The normally closed position of the holder has the badge lying 
flat against the rear part of the holder, adjacent to a metalized 
plastic that is the rear half of the two part badge holder.  The 
portion that is 'hinged' is just large enough to form a "card border" 
around the edges of the id badge.  One has to squeeze the handle to 
hinge up the top holder, moving the RFID badge away from the metalized 
rear of the holder that the badge usually lies against when the hinge 
is closed.  Sprung open, the readers readily read the cards.  With the 
holder closed (and with the badge only covered at the rear by the 
metalized plastic) the readers do not read the card at all.

So it does not take a huge amount of "faraday cage" effect to suppress 
RFID reading.  Therefore a simple foil wrap is likely more than 
sufficient.

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#75880 — Re: Faraday cages

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-10-10 09:49 +0100
SubjectRe: Faraday cages
Message-ID<10cahaa$3u22g$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#75844
On 09/10/2025 17:02, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2025-10-09, Rich wrote:
> 
>> Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>> There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent
>>>> invention.  We simply did not know.  We invented the urban legends.
>>>
>>>    Some people around here are walking around with those RFID cards
>>>    today, and they're thinking about wrapping them in aluminum foil to
>>>    make it harder to scan them.
>>
>> Given that RFID is electromagnetic (radio) comms, and very low power,
>> an aluminum foil wrap (creating an ungrounded Faraday cage) just might
>> attenuate the signal enough to prevent a "read" from happening.
> 
> Doesn't it need a non-conductive layer too?
Not really no.

Just a complete enclosure.


> What is the state of the art
> for cheap shielding of contactless smartcards?
> 
*Continuous* layer of a good conductor. RF leaks through holes


-- 
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the 
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

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#75879

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-10-10 09:47 +0100
Message-ID<10cah6v$3u22g$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#75842
On 09/10/2025 16:16, Rich wrote:
> Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>> There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent
>>> invention.  We simply did not know.  We invented the urban legends.
>>
>>    Some people around here are walking around with those RFID cards
>>    today, and they're thinking about wrapping them in aluminum foil to
>>    make it harder to scan them.
> 
> Given that RFID is electromagnetic (radio) comms, and very low power,
> an aluminum foil wrap (creating an ungrounded Faraday cage) just might
> attenuate the signal enough to prevent a "read" from happening.
> 

On consideration, it's more than might just. It's 'will, definitely.'

Unlike magnetic shielding RF shielding does not rely on mass or 
thickness since HF currents circulate in the surface.

And aluminium is a very good conductor.

-- 
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#75919

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2025-10-11 01:05 -0400
Message-ID<Q7mdneON_8oveHT1nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#75879
On 10/10/25 04:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 09/10/2025 16:16, Rich wrote:
>> Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>> There was no urban legend in those years, floppies were a recent
>>>> invention.  We simply did not know.  We invented the urban legends.
>>>
>>>    Some people around here are walking around with those RFID cards
>>>    today, and they're thinking about wrapping them in aluminum foil to
>>>    make it harder to scan them.
>>
>> Given that RFID is electromagnetic (radio) comms, and very low power,
>> an aluminum foil wrap (creating an ungrounded Faraday cage) just might
>> attenuate the signal enough to prevent a "read" from happening.
>>
> 
> On consideration, it's more than might just. It's 'will, definitely.'
> 
> Unlike magnetic shielding RF shielding does not rely on mass or 
> thickness since HF currents circulate in the surface.
> 
> And aluminium is a very good conductor.

   Quite correct.

   Magnetic shielding is much less important these days.
   Mag HDDs are pretty resistant anyhow. Floppies were
   less so, but still weren't going to be erased by
   being near an electric trolley. Maybe if you worked
   in yer local electric-gen plant ...

   Electric fields though ... those are more of an enemy
   now with various forms of 'chip drives'. Grounded
   aluminum shielding works very well there. Good
   protection on the power/data lines to the chips also,
   but it's harder to know whether your particular board
   has that better protection. A few, Asus, will BRAG
   about such things, but most makers are silent.

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#75775

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2025-10-08 01:52 -0400
Message-ID<af-dnfxqL6mBYXj1nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#75771
On 10/7/25 20:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-10-07 17:16, Rich wrote:
>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>> On 10/6/25 06:29, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>> Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote or 
>>>> quoted:
>>>>> On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 13:04:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>> At some point in the 80's, a friend at uni wanted to go home with
>>>>>> his floppies kept safe (the train was electric).  We told him to
>>>>>> try wrapping in aluminum kitchen foil, or perhaps in a cookie tin
>>>>>> box.  I don't remember what he did exactly, but it worked.
>>>>>> “Faraday cage”.
>>>>
>>>>     In a perfect conductor, inside the material itself (such as the
>>>>     cage walls), the electric field E is zero because free charges
>>>>     move to cancel any applied electric field.
>>>>
>>>>     Faraday's law then implies that within the conductor, the
>>>>     magnetic field B cannot be changing with time.
>>>>
>>>>     Changing magnetic fields induce currents (eddy currents).  These
>>>>     induced currents generate opposing magnetic fields that cancel
>>>>     the time-varying components inside the conductor, effectively
>>>>     shielding against changing magnetic fields.
>>>>
>>>>     But this does not imply zero magnetic field inside the
>>>>     conductor's hollow interior (the cage's interior space).  Static
>>>>     fields do not induce currents because there is no changing
>>>>     magnetic flux within the conductor to generate an electromotive
>>>>     force.  Consequently, these magnetic fields penetrate the cage
>>>>     interior unaffected.
>>>>
>>>>     Also, real materials might not be perfect conductors.  And it
>>>>     seems that, in practice, a Faraday cage can possibly protect to
>>>>     some extend against fast changing magnetic fields, but less
>>>>     against slowly changing magnetic fields.
>>>
>>>    It would take a fairly extreme static/slow-changing
>>>    field to erase floppies. You can do it - I just did
>>>    a couple weeks ago - using a neo magnet at point blank
>>>    range - but fields from train motors, I just don't
>>>    see it. High-frequency mag fields are more dangerous
>>>    but even THEN would need to be pretty strong.
>>
>> The drop off of magnetic field intensity by distance can be
>> **approximated** as 1/(d^3) (inverse cube drop).  So yes, the field
>> from the train motors would need to be extremely strong, or the OP's
>> floppies would have had to be very close to the motors, for the
>> electric train motors to have any impact on the floppies.
> 
> Well, some trains have motors on every carriage. Then also there was the 
> thought that the overhead cable carried large currents and perhaps 
> produced large fields.
> 
> It was just the fear that something might happen to the floppies, and 
> what should we do to prevent hypothetical damage. We had no experience, 
> and there was no internet to ask other people.
> 
> 
>>
>>>    My guess is that we're hearing an "urban legend"
>>>    here.
>>
>> Yes.  There are a lot of those that go around.  And since the "foil
>> wrap" did nothing, but the floppies were undamaged (and the person did
>> not do an A-B test with some wrapped, some unwrapped) they delude
>> themselves into belieiving the foil wrap actually did something.
> 
> I don't remember if we used just foil, or a tin box, or both. Also, I 
> don't remember if there was another floppy outside. I might ask the 
> other chap if you people are that interested.


   The IRON box would be the only thing to mitigate
   magnetic fields. That's "mitigate" though ... not
   anything like 'perfect protection'. That'd have
   to be thick, laminated layers. Some mil comm
   equipment probably has that (plus good old
   fashioned tube/valve tech).

   For 'defense'/survival purposes, tubes/valves
   do still have their place. Highly EMP resistant.
   The tubes/valves ... there's still a Czech firm
   that makes those - mostly audiophile - but WILL
   build to order. $$$ alas  :-)

   But train motors aren't going to produce fields
   strong enough to worry about. We're looking at
   one or a few paranoid people who TRIED something
   and, when their disks survived, were SURE they
   found The Answer.

   But optical media very quickly replaced floppies.
   No more, even theoretical, issue. Today, thumbs
   and u-SDs. Ultra-high electric fields MIGHT do
   bad things to those but, well, "ultra-high" -
   enough to make your hair stand out.

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