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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #13117 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-12-29 17:13 +0000 |
| Last post | 2014-12-30 09:13 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 60 — 21 participants |
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Devuan Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2014-12-29 17:13 +0000
Re: Devuan Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2014-12-29 18:32 +0100
Re: Devuan Grant <omg@grrr.id.au> - 2014-12-30 05:23 +1100
Re: Devuan Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-12-29 13:55 -0500
Re: Devuan Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2014-12-29 19:28 +0000
Re: Devuan Grant <omg@grrr.id.au> - 2014-12-30 07:25 +1100
Re: Devuan "John F" <j@j.ii> - 2014-12-29 13:42 -0800
Re: Devuan Grant <omg@grrr.id.au> - 2014-12-30 09:32 +1100
Re: Devuan Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2014-12-29 14:57 -0800
Re: Devuan "John F" <j@j.ii> - 2014-12-30 16:37 -0800
Re: Devuan Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2014-12-30 18:23 -0800
Re: Devuan notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2014-12-31 17:57 +0000
Re: Devuan Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-12-31 19:07 +0000
Re: Devuan Grant <omg@grrr.id.au> - 2015-01-01 08:25 +1100
Re: Devuan Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2015-01-01 10:56 +0100
Re: Devuan Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2015-01-01 05:02 -0800
Re: Devuan John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-01-01 08:49 -0600
Re: Devuan Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2015-01-01 16:43 +0100
Re: Devuan notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2015-01-01 16:12 +0000
Re: Devuan Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2015-01-01 18:23 +0100
Re: Devuan notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2015-01-01 18:11 +0000
Re: Devuan Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2015-01-01 22:05 +0100
Re: Devuan Grant <omg@grrr.id.au> - 2015-01-02 06:09 +1100
Re: Devuan Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-01-02 20:04 +0000
Re: Devuan notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2015-01-02 20:14 +0000
Re: Devuan Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2015-01-02 12:30 -0800
Re: Devuan notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2015-01-02 21:31 +0000
Re: Devuan Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-01-03 08:03 +0100
Re: Devuan Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-01-02 15:35 -0500
Re: Devuan John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-01-02 14:37 -0600
Re: Devuan Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2015-01-01 16:42 +0100
Re: Devuan Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2014-12-31 16:30 -0500
Re: Devuan Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2014-12-31 23:51 +0000
Re: Devuan Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2014-12-31 23:55 +0000
Re: Devuan Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2014-12-31 16:49 -0800
Re: Devuan The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-01 01:50 +0000
Re: Devuan Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2014-12-31 22:03 -0500
Re: Devuan The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-01 08:46 +0000
Re: Devuan Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-01-01 10:15 -0500
Re: Devuan The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-01 16:01 +0000
Re: Devuan William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-01-01 16:40 +0000
Re: Devuan Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-01-01 17:00 +0000
Re: Devuan William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-01-01 17:08 +0000
Re: Devuan Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-01-01 17:35 +0000
Re: Devuan Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-01-01 12:09 -0500
Re: Devuan William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-01-01 17:22 +0000
Re: Devuan Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-01-01 13:17 -0500
Re: Devuan Grant <omg@grrr.id.au> - 2015-01-02 06:14 +1100
Re: Devuan Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2015-01-03 05:27 +0000
Re: Devuan Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-01-03 08:10 +0100
Re: Devuan William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-01-03 09:16 +0000
Re: Devuan Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-01-03 10:37 +0100
Re: Devuan Grant <omg@grrr.id.au> - 2015-01-02 06:11 +1100
Re: Devuan Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-01-01 15:23 +0000
Re: Devuan Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2015-01-03 05:29 +0000
Re: Devuan Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-01-03 09:14 +0000
Re: Devuan Stephen Chadfield <stephen@chadfield.com> - 2015-01-05 02:33 +0000
Re: Devuan "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2015-02-09 16:57 -0500
Re: Devuan "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-03-08 09:08 -0400
Re: Devuan Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2014-12-30 09:13 +0100
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| From | notbob <notbob@nothome.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-01 18:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cglgusFbig6U7@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #13169 |
On 2015-01-01, Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote: > It makes things harder for people knowing those other distributions. Only knowing a buncha GUIs arbitrarily chosen by others is not "knowing" Linux. nb
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-01 22:05 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <m84cq5$edc$1@news1.tnib.de> |
| In reply to | #13171 |
notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote: >On 2015-01-01, Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote: >> It makes things harder for people knowing those other distributions. > >Only knowing a buncha GUIs arbitrarily chosen by others is not >"knowing" Linux. I ain't talking about GUIs. Greetings Marc -- -------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! ----- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834
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| From | Grant <omg@grrr.id.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-02 06:09 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <9p6baalr81hpctebumo4gd8qv04h6fq1vf@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #13163 |
On 1 Jan 2015 16:12:14 GMT, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote: >On 2015-01-01, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote: > >> If you want to be accurate, you can think of the saying as "If you >> learn Slackware, you'll insist on doing everything the Slackware way >> even when using other distributions. And you'll bitch about it." > >LOL! > >....and this is a bad thing, how? ;) Way to go, notbob Grant (Slackware user for over a decade). > >nb
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-02 20:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m86tk8129uc@news4.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #13157 |
On 2015-01-01, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote: > Keith Keller writes: > >> If you want to be literal, then you can think of the saying as "...if >> you learn Slackware, you'll know most linux distros." > > If you want to be accurate, you can think of the saying as "If you > learn Slackware, you'll insist on doing everything the Slackware way > even when using other distributions. And you'll bitch about it." Slackware was my first Linux distro. When I first decided to set up a Linux machine, I went to the local bookstore and scanned all the Linux books, and picked the one I liked best. It happened to be by Patrick Volkerding, and it contained a Slackware 3.5 installation disk. But package dependency hell was what made me "bitch about it." So on my laptop I tried various other distributions - and a few months ago, seduced by the siren call of apt-get, I made the switch to Debian. The breaking point came when my Slack 13.37 box died, and I tried to install 14.1 on a brand-new box. Nothing I tried would get it to recognize the Ethernet port on the motherboard (I had a lot of trouble originally getting the old box working too). I popped in the Debian Jessie install disk I had running on my laptop, and it found the port - and my Internet gateway - before it even got around to asking me any questions. Slackware is good for the soul - but I'm getting so tired... -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| From | notbob <notbob@nothome.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-02 20:14 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cgochuF45jjU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #13179 |
On 2015-01-02, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: > the Debian Jessie install disk I had running on my laptop, and it > found the port - and my Internet gateway - before it even got around > to asking me any questions. Nothing to brag on. My first attemps at Linux included Caldera Linux in the late 90's. You would insert the Caldera iso CD, then it would dump you in a game of tetris while it installed the entire OS without any further input on yer part. Who now does that? If you want it all done for you, fine. If you want it done to your requirements, that requires a bit more knowledge on yer part. That's what make Linux so great. Choice! That's also why systemd sucks. nb
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| From | Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-02 12:30 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <2pbjnbxfff.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> |
| In reply to | #13180 |
On 2015-01-02, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote: [snip] > That's what make Linux so great. Choice! > > That's also why systemd sucks. Can't you choose not to use systemd, thus the origin of this thread? --keith -- kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us (try just my userid to email me) AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt see X- headers for PGP signature information
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| From | notbob <notbob@nothome.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-02 21:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cgoh1aF7g0tU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #13182 |
On 2015-01-02, Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote: > Can't you choose not to use systemd..... I'd like to. If I still have that choice, I will exercise it. But, it looks like systemd has run roughshod over the entire Linux landscape, with only a couple staunch holdouts. Even then, looks like Pat may eventually cave. If so, it's back to BSD, for me. UNLESS! ....Pat offers a choice in setup and/or Devuan is succesful. 8| nb
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| From | Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-03 08:03 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <m8847c$8sc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #13184 |
On Friday 02 January 2015 22:31, notbob conveyed the following to
comp.os.linux.misc...
> On 2015-01-02, Keith Keller
> <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>
>> Can't you choose not to use systemd.....
>
> I'd like to. If I still have that choice, I will exercise it. But,
> it looks like systemd has run roughshod over the entire Linux
> landscape, with only a couple staunch holdouts. Even then, looks like
> Pat may eventually cave. If so, it's back to BSD, for me. UNLESS!
> ....Pat offers a choice in setup and/or Devuan is succesful. 8|
I'm surprised you've never heard of Gentoo ─ or even Funtoo for that
matter. [*] It gives you all the choices you want.
The default init in Gentoo is still openrc ─ systemd and upstart are
supported ─ which is a wrapper around sysvinit and offers many of the
things systemd considers advantageous, such as support for cgroups,
dependency-based boot scripts and parallel boot-up execution of the init
scripts.
If you consider Slackware educational, then Gentoo is equally
educational. Although binary packages do exist, you normally install
all the software from the bare sources, but the compiling/building
process is automated. The documentation ─ although a big lacking in
some respects ─ is also very good, with lots of HowTos.
Gentoo uses named runlevels rather than numbered ones, but that's just a
convention. It's fully compatible with traditional sysvinit runlevels.
[*] Funtoo is based upon Gentoo but focuses on more bleeding-edge
versions of the software ─ that which the Gentoo community calls
"~arch-masked". Funtoo was founded and is maintained by Daniel
Robbins, who also created Gentoo, but whose offer to return to
Gentoo in order to sort out some ego issues (among the developers
and Council members) and put the distro back on track was rejected
by the Gentoo Council. They did eventually get things settled down
again, and so Daniel Robbins created Funtoo, which is to Gentoo what
Debian Sid is to the current Debian Jessie.
--
= Aragorn =
http://www.linuxcounter.net - registrant #223157
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| From | Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-02 15:35 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.LNX.2.02.1501021533010.24957@darkstar.example.org> |
| In reply to | #13179 |
On Fri, 2 Jan 2015, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2015-01-01, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote: > >> Keith Keller writes: >> >>> If you want to be literal, then you can think of the saying as "...if >>> you learn Slackware, you'll know most linux distros." >> >> If you want to be accurate, you can think of the saying as "If you >> learn Slackware, you'll insist on doing everything the Slackware way >> even when using other distributions. And you'll bitch about it." > > Slackware was my first Linux distro. When I first decided to set up > a Linux machine, I went to the local bookstore and scanned all the > Linux books, and picked the one I liked best. It happened to be by > Patrick Volkerding, and it contained a Slackware 3.5 installation disk. > But package dependency hell was what made me "bitch about it." So on > my laptop I tried various other distributions - and a few months ago, > seduced by the siren call of apt-get, I made the switch to Debian. > The breaking point came when my Slack 13.37 box died, and I tried > to install 14.1 on a brand-new box. Nothing I tried would get it > to recognize the Ethernet port on the motherboard (I had a lot of > trouble originally getting the old box working too). I popped in > the Debian Jessie install disk I had running on my laptop, and it > found the port - and my Internet gateway - before it even got around > to asking me any questions. > > Slackware is good for the soul - but I'm getting so tired... > I first tried Debian, because they were "so free", but I had to do a limited install, and all that dependency stuff was too much for a beginning. Besides, their version of 'free" meant they didnt' include Pine, and I wasn't up to installing it from some other source. So in the week after Christmas 2000, I find among the clearance books at the big chain bookstore "SLackware Linux for Dummies" and the two CDs are still in there, just a mildly ripped cover. It came to about $15.00, so I grabbed it. So from my experience Debian was too complicated, Slackware is for dummies and easy to get going. Michael
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| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-02 14:37 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <87k314dim0.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org> |
| In reply to | #13179 |
Charlie Gibbs writes: > Slackware was my first Linux distro. Mine as well, but I switched to Debian 1.1 as soon as it came out. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-01 16:42 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <m83pu0$367$1@news1.tnib.de> |
| In reply to | #13156 |
Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote: > If you want to be literal, then you can >think of the saying as "...if you learn Slackware, you'll know most >linux distros." That doesn't sound quite so pithy though. And it is wrong as well. Greetings Marc -- -------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! ----- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834
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| From | Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-31 16:30 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <m81pt5$34c$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #13140 |
notbob <notbob@nothome.com> writes: > On 2014-12-31, John F <j@j.ii> wrote: > >> Where are the config files for it? there must be some! > > Ah! A linux user who is not familiar with Slackware. Give it a try. > All the config files you could ever desire and nary a sign of systemd > in sight. ;) > > http://www.slackware.com/ Another user who is not aware that systemd has plain text configuration files. Hidden away in /etc/systemd/no less. -- Dan Espen
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| From | Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-31 23:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pan.2014.12.31.23.51.34@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #13143 |
On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:30:37 -0500, Dan Espen wrote: > Another user who is not aware that systemd has plain text configuration > files. > > Hidden away in /etc/systemd/no less. I know that, but I don't like systemd. It's not as well documented or as well known as /etc/init. I am not sure that the speed of booting is a goal worth sacrificing something that works flawlessly. Systemd was rammed down my throat, without giving me any choice. Now, that I have a choice, a major distribution without systemd, I will express my choice. I'll switch to Devuan as soon as they release a stable distro. Systemd became so pervasive only because users weren't given a choice. -- Mladen Gogala The Oracle Whisperer http://mgogala.byethost5.com
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| From | Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-31 23:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pan.2014.12.31.23.55.23@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #13145 |
On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 23:51:34 +0000, Mladen Gogala wrote: > Systemd became so pervasive only because users weren't given a choice. BTW, HatRed seems to plan doing the same thing with Wayward instead of X11. -- Mladen Gogala The Oracle Whisperer http://mgogala.byethost5.com
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| From | Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-31 16:49 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <16ienbx8ti.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> |
| In reply to | #13146 |
On 2014-12-31, Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> wrote: > > BTW, HatRed seems to plan doing the same thing with Wayward instead of > X11. It's hard (though not impossible) to imagine anything replacing X11 could be worse than X11. --keith -- kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us (try just my userid to email me) AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt see X- headers for PGP signature information
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-01 01:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m82966$5tq$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #13147 |
On 01/01/15 00:49, Keith Keller wrote: > On 2014-12-31, Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> BTW, HatRed seems to plan doing the same thing with Wayward instead of >> X11. > > It's hard (though not impossible) to imagine anything replacing X11 > could be worse than X11. > It is surely a challenge, but I am sure they are up to it.... > --keith > -- Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll
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| From | Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-31 22:03 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <m82dcb$mfp$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #13148 |
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes: > On 01/01/15 00:49, Keith Keller wrote: >> On 2014-12-31, Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> BTW, HatRed seems to plan doing the same thing with Wayward instead of >>> X11. >> >> It's hard (though not impossible) to imagine anything replacing X11 >> could be worse than X11. >> > > It is surely a challenge, but I am sure they are up to it.... Unlike systemd, which can do everything init does, Wayland is advertised to be missing a network protocol. You can do something like VNC, but not remote windows. So, with Wayland, there is a REAL issue. One that actually affects real people. -- Dan Espen
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-01 08:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m831hr$1fv$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #13150 |
On 01/01/15 03:03, Dan Espen wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes: > >> On 01/01/15 00:49, Keith Keller wrote: >>> On 2014-12-31, Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> BTW, HatRed seems to plan doing the same thing with Wayward instead of >>>> X11. >>> >>> It's hard (though not impossible) to imagine anything replacing X11 >>> could be worse than X11. >>> >> >> It is surely a challenge, but I am sure they are up to it.... > > Unlike systemd, which can do everything init does, > Wayland is advertised to be missing a network protocol. > > You can do something like VNC, but not remote windows. > > So, with Wayland, there is a REAL issue. > One that actually affects real people. > well that is not an issue in fact, its just moving the network awareness of the GUI up the stack a little. I'd be delighted to ditch X - after 5 years of bug eradication in any alternative. 99% of the applications use less than 1% of its features. -- Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll
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| From | Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-01 10:15 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <m83o9a$oh6$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #13154 |
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes: > On 01/01/15 03:03, Dan Espen wrote: >> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes: >> >>> On 01/01/15 00:49, Keith Keller wrote: >>>> On 2014-12-31, Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> BTW, HatRed seems to plan doing the same thing with Wayward instead of >>>>> X11. >>>> >>>> It's hard (though not impossible) to imagine anything replacing X11 >>>> could be worse than X11. >>>> >>> >>> It is surely a challenge, but I am sure they are up to it.... >> >> Unlike systemd, which can do everything init does, >> Wayland is advertised to be missing a network protocol. >> >> You can do something like VNC, but not remote windows. >> >> So, with Wayland, there is a REAL issue. >> One that actually affects real people. >> > well that is not an issue in fact, its just moving the network > awareness of the GUI up the stack a little. Huh? You are telling me having an Emacs window from work on my home system is just the same as having a desktop with an Emacs window? I beg to differ. > I'd be delighted to ditch X - after 5 years of bug eradication in any > alternative. X11 has been working fine here. I don't have a single issue I'd like changed. The only issue I ever hear the Wayland developers claim that they are going to fix is "tearing". I've never seen this "tearing" that they talk about. > 99% of the applications use less than 1% of its features. As it should be. If that is supposed to justify removing a critical feature, I can't agree. In this case we have: systemd vs. init - No perceptible difference. X11 vs. Wayland - Clear difference and lack of an important feature. -- Dan Espen
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-01 16:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m83r0q$hnn$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #13158 |
On 01/01/15 15:15, Dan Espen wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes: > >> On 01/01/15 03:03, Dan Espen wrote: >>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes: >>> >>>> On 01/01/15 00:49, Keith Keller wrote: >>>>> On 2014-12-31, Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW, HatRed seems to plan doing the same thing with Wayward instead of >>>>>> X11. >>>>> >>>>> It's hard (though not impossible) to imagine anything replacing X11 >>>>> could be worse than X11. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It is surely a challenge, but I am sure they are up to it.... >>> >>> Unlike systemd, which can do everything init does, >>> Wayland is advertised to be missing a network protocol. >>> >>> You can do something like VNC, but not remote windows. >>> >>> So, with Wayland, there is a REAL issue. >>> One that actually affects real people. >>> >> well that is not an issue in fact, its just moving the network >> awareness of the GUI up the stack a little. > > Huh? > > You are telling me having an Emacs window from work on my home system is > just the same as having a desktop with an Emacs window? > No. I am not. > I beg to differ. well anywone can set up a straw man to destroy. > >> I'd be delighted to ditch X - after 5 years of bug eradication in any >> alternative. > > X11 has been working fine here. I don't have a single issue > I'd like changed. The only issue I ever hear the Wayland > developers claim that they are going to fix is "tearing". > > I've never seen this "tearing" that they talk about. > >> 99% of the applications use less than 1% of its features. > > As it should be. > Rubbish. The art of keeping bloat is that 90% of the apps use 100% pof the features and the other features are moved into the apps that need them. > If that is supposed to justify removing a critical > feature, I can't agree. Straw man. Moving an uncritical feature into the few apps that need it. > > In this case we have: > > systemd vs. init - No perceptible difference. > X11 vs. Wayland - Clear difference and lack of an important feature. > Yawn. -- Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll
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