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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #90165 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-08-19 21:20 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-08-29 18:15 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 590 — 29 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc
/dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-19 21:20 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-19 23:53 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-19 23:42 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 00:59 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-20 03:59 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-20 10:10 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 18:15 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-20 23:30 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 01:18 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-21 09:52 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 08:12 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-21 11:16 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 22:57 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-22 06:17 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp David De La Harpe Golden <david@harpegolden.net> - 2026-08-30 17:56 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 21:50 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2026-08-24 17:42 +0300
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-24 23:53 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:27 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-23 00:56 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-23 04:01 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 03:37 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:50 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-23 22:28 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:35 +0200
Overwriting with random data (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:10 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 20:34 +0200
Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 20:57 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 22:26 +0200
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:39 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 08:45 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 21:39 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-26 18:08 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 00:49 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-28 00:59 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:19 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:36 +0200
Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 15:19 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 03:33 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 09:18 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 17:34 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 01:52 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-27 12:11 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 01:00 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 22:16 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 08:32 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-28 03:34 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-28 11:37 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:44 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-28 13:25 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 15:27 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 19:30 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 00:59 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 01:57 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-29 20:42 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:33 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 19:50 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 10:11 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-29 05:25 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 02:12 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 10:15 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 21:56 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:29 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-28 13:43 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 20:15 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-08-28 21:59 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 02:09 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-29 08:59 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 09:25 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-29 11:19 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-29 20:45 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:38 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-09-02 19:33 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-09-02 20:21 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-02 22:22 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-09-03 02:53 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-02 23:28 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-03 11:51 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-02 23:09 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-03 11:52 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-08-29 15:10 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-30 08:58 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-30 23:45 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 21:47 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 13:56 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-29 14:17 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-08-29 16:02 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:12 +0200
Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-08-29 21:04 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-09-05 09:32 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-05 13:49 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-09-20 15:54 +0200
Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 00:58 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:23 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 00:53 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:12 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 00:09 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 08:52 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 01:02 +0000
Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 00:48 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 00:37 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 00:31 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:45 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 12:52 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 12:50 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-20 13:50 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-20 13:02 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-20 18:26 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-29 13:48 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:44 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-08-29 23:05 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-30 00:58 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-08-30 04:12 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-30 09:25 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-30 11:00 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-30 23:54 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-31 09:34 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-09-05 09:08 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-05 10:25 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-05 19:19 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-05 22:38 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-05 21:40 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-06 09:16 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-05 21:38 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-06 09:19 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-06 18:54 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-06 23:27 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 11:54 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-07 03:52 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-07 00:12 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 12:00 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-07 19:34 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 22:23 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 05:45 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-07 22:24 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 05:48 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-08 01:52 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-08 08:46 +0100
[OT] /dev/economy (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 10:28 +0100
Re: [OT] /dev/economy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 13:43 +0100
Re: [OT] /dev/economy (was: Re: /dev/tcp) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 18:32 +0000
Re: [OT] /dev/economy (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-09-08 20:38 +0000
Re: [OT] /dev/economy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 00:48 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 18:41 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 00:52 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-09 01:34 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 09:28 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 09:26 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-09 18:22 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 23:37 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-10 04:46 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-10 02:19 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-10 18:25 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-11 03:09 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 10:20 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 19:25 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:36 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 23:05 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-13 07:14 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 03:49 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-13 21:51 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 20:59 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 04:33 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-14 01:26 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:49 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 17:46 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 19:07 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 00:33 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:50 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:56 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-11 23:31 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:43 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-12 14:05 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 17:40 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-12 19:29 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 19:21 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 02:37 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 11:31 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-10 18:38 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 00:26 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 04:10 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 01:00 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 00:55 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 09:32 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 18:44 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 21:05 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-09 01:35 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 03:47 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-09 18:18 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 23:22 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-10 04:44 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-10 02:13 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 11:26 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-10 19:07 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-10 18:35 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-11 03:24 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 10:27 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 19:07 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 02:36 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:26 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 23:01 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:52 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:23 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-12 19:22 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 19:37 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-10 20:58 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 00:25 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-11 11:32 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 10:51 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-11 12:03 +0200
[OT] Middle East (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 00:43 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 02:09 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:26 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 11:45 +0100
[OT] Middle East (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:56 +0100
Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:37 +0100
Re: [OT] Middle East rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-13 19:33 +0000
Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 21:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Middle East "Rinaldi J. Montessi" <rinaldij@alien.free> - 2026-09-13 17:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Middle East c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 22:05 -0400
Re: [OT] Middle East rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 03:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Middle East c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 23:35 -0400
Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:52 +0100
Re: [OT] Middle East rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 02:37 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:47 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-12 14:09 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 17:41 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-12 14:07 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 17:45 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:13 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-12 19:05 +0000
[OT] Middle East (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:11 +0100
Re: [OT] Middle East Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:40 +0100
Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:58 +0100
Re: [OT] Middle East "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-13 14:08 +0200
Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 21:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Middle East c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 20:48 -0400
Re: [OT] Middle East Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:59 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 04:12 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 10:16 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 19:13 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:27 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-12 19:42 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 00:22 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-13 07:51 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-13 07:02 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:31 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-13 09:45 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:21 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 03:02 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-13 08:39 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 03:50 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:13 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:51 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:44 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-13 21:39 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:31 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 19:32 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:54 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-14 09:20 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 11:06 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-14 19:56 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 20:07 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-14 23:01 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 00:30 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:42 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-15 09:26 +0200
[OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 10:18 +0100
Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-15 20:24 +0200
Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:51 +0100
Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 00:56 +0000
Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 07:25 +0200
Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:13 +0100
Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:09 +0100
Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 00:52 +0000
Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 07:26 +0200
Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:09 +0100
Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 18:17 +0000
Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:24 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 16:34 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 18:27 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 18:21 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-15 20:32 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 02:17 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 18:30 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 21:35 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:59 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-16 08:20 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:33 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 18:16 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 17:50 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 19:55 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 01:10 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 02:30 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-16 23:19 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 12:44 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-17 20:19 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-17 23:27 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 02:54 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-18 01:14 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 08:29 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-18 08:29 -0600
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 08:27 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 20:07 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-19 11:24 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-19 10:53 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-19 13:35 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-19 19:29 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-20 10:29 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-19 22:01 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-19 23:41 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-20 10:34 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-20 14:07 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-20 17:40 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-20 21:03 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-21 13:21 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-21 13:18 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Chris Abraham <chris@gerriscorp.com> - 2026-09-21 13:16 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-21 23:13 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-22 03:38 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-22 06:49 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-21 19:14 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-21 23:31 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-21 23:13 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-22 04:22 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-22 06:55 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-22 03:51 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-21 13:13 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-20 10:22 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-17 08:05 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 12:46 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:31 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 12:16 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:48 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 12:11 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:52 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 22:16 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:12 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-17 07:16 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 06:37 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 13:43 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 13:32 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-17 21:51 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 22:15 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 18:22 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:25 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:35 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 22:06 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 03:23 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-18 01:24 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 00:58 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:55 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:28 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-17 22:19 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-17 21:58 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 22:25 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 00:57 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 03:02 +0000
[OT] Washington Treaty of 1949 (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 10:59 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 02:58 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 10:02 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 18:18 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-15 18:49 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-15 21:21 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:53 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 02:34 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-16 04:31 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 06:36 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-16 08:30 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 02:29 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 17:43 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 19:05 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-14 19:50 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 20:00 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-14 23:05 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 00:18 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-15 01:52 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:48 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 17:30 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:43 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-16 00:37 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 06:33 +0000
[OT] /dev/middle-east (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:37 +0100
Re: [OT] /dev/middle-east The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:45 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:26 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 18:38 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:33 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:54 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 13:58 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-17 23:25 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-15 18:49 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:57 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:45 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-14 21:03 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:58 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 23:56 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 02:00 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-15 02:14 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-14 20:59 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:56 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 17:48 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:43 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 01:56 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-15 21:28 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:04 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 23:32 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:58 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 01:33 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:23 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 09:01 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:29 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 01:20 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 09:03 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:21 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 18:43 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:38 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-17 17:44 +0000
[OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:31 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 20:35 +0200
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 02:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-17 08:09 +0200
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 10:21 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:53 +0200
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:31 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:20 +0000
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 21:58 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 02:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 08:42 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 19:30 +0000
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 21:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 02:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 08:33 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 19:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:30 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:26 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:47 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 13:52 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 21:54 +0100
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 02:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 08:37 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:03 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-11 23:07 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:40 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 23:06 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 09:29 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-09 18:20 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 23:26 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 11:29 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-11 00:58 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 10:19 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 11:27 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-09 04:25 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 00:43 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 09:31 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 23:12 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 11:32 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 09:31 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-07 22:20 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 05:05 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-08 01:51 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 09:34 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 11:59 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-07 19:18 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-05 21:35 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-30 13:06 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:54 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 22:57 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-22 21:47 +0200
The hammer is best (Was: /dev/tcp) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-22 23:50 +0000
Re: The hammer is best (Was: /dev/tcp) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 04:28 -0400
Re: The hammer is best Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 10:14 +0100
Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:55 +0200
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:16 +0100
Re: The hammer is best Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-23 21:20 +0200
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 02:18 -0400
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:26 +0100
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:06 -0400
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:18 +0100
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 00:51 -0400
Re: The hammer is best Joed Oakes <lost@noway.home.invalid> - 2026-08-23 19:42 -0400
Re: The hammer is best Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-23 23:56 +0000
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 02:25 -0400
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-24 01:14 +0000
Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:50 +0200
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 00:56 -0400
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 00:53 -0400
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-24 06:42 +0000
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 23:34 -0400
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 04:08 +0000
Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:29 +0200
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 18:52 +0000
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 04:19 -0400
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 09:29 +0100
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 17:03 +0000
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 21:31 +0100
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 22:18 -0400
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:28 +0100
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:07 -0400
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 06:39 +0000
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:23 +0100
Re: The hammer is best Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 18:26 +0000
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 20:05 +0100
Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 21:43 +0200
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 08:35 +0100
Re: The hammer is best Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 20:21 +0000
Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 23:14 +0200
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 19:08 +0000
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 04:38 -0400
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 10:22 +0100
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 17:26 +0000
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 00:00 -0400
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 03:44 -0400
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 01:49 -0400
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:20 +0100
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 01:23 -0400
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 22:16 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:41 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 22:58 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 22:28 -0400
ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-24 13:56 +0100
Bash vs. ksh - Does it matter? And the 'vi' mode thing... (Was: ksh (was: /dev/tcp)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-24 14:57 +0000
Re: Bash vs. ksh - Does it matter? And the 'vi' mode thing... (Was: ksh Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-08-30 13:26 +0100
Re: Bash vs. ksh - Does it matter? And the 'vi' mode thing... (Was: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-30 23:49 +0000
Re: Bash vs. ksh - Does it matter? And the 'vi' mode thing... (Was: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-31 01:35 -0400
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-24 21:08 +0000
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-24 21:28 +0000
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-29 13:29 +0000
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:41 +0000
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-31 13:43 +0100
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 01:11 +0000
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-25 13:25 +0100
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 21:58 +0000
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-26 13:34 +0100
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-27 02:23 +0000
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 03:40 -0400
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 01:40 -0400
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-29 13:40 +0000
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:25 -0400
Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 06:52 +0000
Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:27 +0100
Re: ksh Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 18:26 +0000
Re: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 22:03 +0000
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 04:04 -0400
Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 18:00 +0000
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 03:17 -0400
Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-27 15:22 +0000
Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-27 17:55 +0100
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 23:14 -0400
Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:48 +0100
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 22:43 -0400
Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 04:17 +0000
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-28 03:18 -0400
Re: ksh Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-08-28 15:54 +0000
Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 20:40 +0000
Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 10:14 +0100
Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-29 21:12 +0000
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 02:35 -0400
Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 18:17 +0000
Re: ksh Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-08-25 09:56 +0200
Re: ksh "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:24 +0200
Re: ksh Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-25 20:36 +0200
Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 04:23 +0000
Re: ksh "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-26 10:04 +0200
Re: ksh Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 10:03 +0100
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 21:50 -0400
Re: ksh Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-29 13:38 +0000
Re: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:42 +0000
Re: ksh "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-30 14:26 +0200
Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:27 +0100
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 02:43 -0400
Re: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 22:01 +0000
Re: ksh "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-26 01:32 +0200
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 21:46 -0400
Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 04:25 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 18:22 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:57 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-23 06:37 -0700
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 14:49 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 16:13 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-23 22:31 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 19:08 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp David De La Harpe Golden <david@harpegolden.net> - 2026-08-29 00:52 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 04:14 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp David De La Harpe Golden <david@harpegolden.net> - 2026-08-29 19:06 +0100
[OT] Weather Underground (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 08:58 +0100
Re: [OT] Weather Underground David De La Harpe Golden <david@harpegolden.net> - 2026-08-29 18:15 +0100
Page 25 of 30 — ← Prev page 1 … 23 24 [25] 26 27 … 30 Next page →
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 02:06 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <4R-dndlP7cWzrBD3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90450 |
On 8/24/26 06:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 23/08/2026 20:20, Marc Haber wrote: >> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> On 23/08/2026 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>> Hard disks are simply repurposed, recycled, sold... usually zeroing >>>> them >>>> first. Encryption protects the case when zeroing is forgotten, or the >>>> disk breaks before that. Encryption protects against such accidents. >>>> >>> No, they are not. Not by corporations. Some Mickey Mouse companies with >>> nothing worth stealing might... >> >> Corporations still act on the customs of the 2000 years because using >> their brains costs money that doesn't land in budgets where the money >> to destroy disks is already booked. >> > No., They have the wisdom of age. > Crushing a disk loses maybe $20. Having a disks data stolen could cots > them $billions > There is no way to be assured other than by doing $10,000 worth of > testing that a disks data has completely been destroyed beyond foresnic > recovery, but if the disk is crushed there is certainty. Look - IT DEPENDS. If you're Joe's Garage then you don't NEED "extensive testing" to ensure the drive is un-readable - NOBODY CARES. If you're like a bank, then you have to put in a little more effort. The Spooks probably literally melt 'em down - they are MAJOR targets for MAJOR hostile players. > Likewise the audit trails to determine whether or not the disk held any > sensitive data or not are expensive to maintain and even more to trace. Again, 99%, far more complicated than needed. > $20 is a small price to pay for certainty "Certainty" is something close to Hillary's Silver Hammer. BANG BANG Hillary's Silver Hammer came down upon those phones ..... :-) However "way good enough" for 99% ... ONE whack with a ball-peen hammer WILL do it. I had a shop, so the 'drill bit solution' was very quick and handy. Nobody anywhere REALLY cared what was on those drives - but HAD to at least make a little effort.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 12:18 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <116jtmf$3l7js$10@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #90489 |
On 25/08/2026 07:06, c186282 wrote: > "Certainty" is something close to Hillary's Silver > Hammer. > > BANG BANG Hillary's Silver Hammer came down upon > those phones ..... 🙂 > > However "way good enough" for 99% ... ONE whack > with a ball-peen hammer WILL do it. It all depends on the anticipated cost of any data theft. Mots PCs fro9m private individuals at worst will drain a few grand from their bank account. But for a corporation it could be their entire customer list, or the blueprints for next years missiles. Industrial *shredders* that reduce disk platters or NAND flash chips to irreassemblable near dust, take the sort of data recovery we use on the dead sea scroll fragments or worse. By the time its decoded the data is already obsolete -- “it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism (or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans, about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a 'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,' a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian utopia of 1984.” Vaclav Klaus
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-26 00:51 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <ZfqcnXFt_dSB7BP3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90520 |
On 8/25/26 07:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 25/08/2026 07:06, c186282 wrote: >> "Certainty" is something close to Hillary's Silver >> Hammer. >> >> BANG BANG Hillary's Silver Hammer came down upon >> those phones ..... 🙂 >> >> However "way good enough" for 99% ... ONE whack >> with a ball-peen hammer WILL do it. > > It all depends on the anticipated cost of any data theft. > > Mots PCs fro9m private individuals at worst will drain a few grand from > their bank account. > > But for a corporation it could be their entire customer list, or the > blueprints for next years missiles. > > Industrial *shredders* that reduce disk platters or NAND flash chips to > irreassemblable near dust, take the sort of data recovery we use on the > dead sea scroll fragments or worse. > > By the time its decoded the data is already obsolete Well, as you implied, it kind of "depends". Joe's Garage - nobody CARES about his data. CIA/NSA/FSB - their data is HIGHLY coveted. The "ball-peen hammer" whack is good enough for almost everybody. You'd need a 3-D tracking mag probe to get much off the bent-2-shit platters. If looking for overwritten, a MUCH more expensive probe. DID look into such services awhile back. Some had experience with "crushed" drives and even those that had been in fires. However the CO$$$T !!! If it wasn't yer entire bank-patron transaction records or something ....... Had to tell our guy that he SHOULD have made backups. It was kind of a lot of scientific-type data. Did KEEP the fucked drive for a dozen years though, just in case cheaper solutions appeared. Average employees, DO put some kind of backup shit on their system - something INVISIBLE to them. They will NOT do real backups often enough no matter HOW much you lecture or threaten. There are some transparent options for both Winders and Linux. If you know how YOU can write 'em. Linux, you just run an rsync-using script in the background. Winders still doesn't really have an 'rsync' alas so "image" backup utils are the better option. Run 'em during lunch hour. Then set The Guy up with a utility that DID semi-live backups automatically so he'd never have to THINK about it. Maybe used a Winders equiv of ioevent(), or maybe just dumb polling, to detect changes to the primary disk and echo them to the backup. Not RAID, that can echo ERRORS to the redundant too. Anyway, the BEST data-clearing method is a white hot pot of molten aluminum. Apologies to Hawking but you're just NOT gonna get that info back before the universe ends. Hmmmmmm ... DID notice ... if you format a disk as EXT2 it takes a LOT longer than with EXT3/4 or FAT or NTFS. Instead of just placing 'marker' sectors EXT2 seem do be doing stuff at a much finer level. That alone might equal a 'decent wipe' for civvie uses.
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| From | Joed Oakes <lost@noway.home.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-23 19:42 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <116g0gm$2as37$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #90392 |
On 8/23/26 08:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 23/08/2026 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2026-08-23 11:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote: >>> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes: >>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>> ... >>>>>> are hidden buffers plus the wear-leveling scheme >>>>>> gets in the way. You wipe 'em the Hillary Clinton >>>>>> way - HAMMER :-) >>>>> >>>>> Instead, use encryption, on the device or the partitions. >>>> >>>> Hammer is better, because encryption can be worked around by holding a >>>> gun to the head of the person who knows the encryption key. >>> >>> My backup drives are encrypted. In principle they could be stolen from >>> here, from an offsite location or in transit and if that happens I won’t >>> have the opportunity to destroy it. >> >> Exactly. >> >> And in the typical business case, hammering of disks is not often done. > > It is UNIVERSALLY done in the UK. > Insurance will be voided, contracts lost and people will get fired if > it is not. > > The big sources of usable hardware are BIG corporates - banks, insurance > companies, travel agencies... they dump a thousand machines a year to > recycling companies who sign in blood that the disk will be CRUSHED. > >> Hard disks are simply repurposed, recycled, sold... usually zeroing >> them first. Encryption protects the case when zeroing is forgotten, or >> the disk breaks before that. Encryption protects against such accidents. >> > No, they are not. Not by corporations. Some Mickey Mouse companies with > nothing worth stealing might... 20 years ago where I worked we used the hammer and drill approach, but that was NEVER environmentally responsible. NOTE that Western Digital runs a drive recycling program for EOL hard drives. They may not pay you money, but they do offer credits on new hard drives. Considering that China is constricting the availability of rare earth magnets now I think it behooves us to recycle these drives whenever possible. WD claims to wipe the drives on arrival, but I still run dd -if /dev/urandom of=/dev/xxx multiple times on anything I send them... Aside from that, I keep all my hard drives encrypted at rest. -- "Build a man a fire, and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett, Discworld
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-23 23:56 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <116g1bk$2apg7$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #90418 |
On Sun, 23 Aug 2026 19:42:12 -0400, Joed Oakes wrote: > 20 years ago where I worked we used the hammer and drill approach, > but that was NEVER environmentally responsible. NOTE that Western > Digital runs a drive recycling program for EOL hard drives. They may > not pay you money, but they do offer credits on new hard drives. There are third-party companies who undertake legally-binding contracts to erase all data on used drives before reselling them. A client of mine gets lots of drives from such a source. Here <https://shop.core.net.nz/products/lenovo-2ru-x3650-m5-rack-server> is an example of the sort of hardware he puts them in. That takes one or two expansion cabinets as well, for an extra 24 drives in each.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-24 02:25 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <l9icnfTKBY2aeRb3nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90419 |
On 8/23/26 19:56, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Sun, 23 Aug 2026 19:42:12 -0400, Joed Oakes wrote: > >> 20 years ago where I worked we used the hammer and drill approach, >> but that was NEVER environmentally responsible. NOTE that Western >> Digital runs a drive recycling program for EOL hard drives. They may >> not pay you money, but they do offer credits on new hard drives. > > There are third-party companies who undertake legally-binding > contracts to erase all data on used drives before reselling them. Umm .. CAUTION. That contract clause doesn't mean THEY can't pirate the drives BEFORE they re-sell 'em ! > A client of mine gets lots of drives from such a source. Here > <https://shop.core.net.nz/products/lenovo-2ru-x3650-m5-rack-server> is > an example of the sort of hardware he puts them in. That takes one or > two expansion cabinets as well, for an extra 24 drives in each. Screw 'responsible' - SMASH old drives. DID salvage a lot of neo magnets from old drives however. HATE to waste those.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-24 01:14 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <nf1k7aF5rktU26@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #90418 |
On Sun, 23 Aug 2026 19:42:12 -0400, Joed Oakes wrote: > WD claims to wipe the drives on arrival, but I still run dd -if > /dev/urandom of=/dev/xxx multiple times on anything I send them... Madame Clinton recommends BitBleach.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-24 09:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <hm9tlmxisg.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #90418 |
On 2026-08-24 01:42, Joed Oakes wrote:
> On 8/23/26 08:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 23/08/2026 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-23 11:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>>> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:
>>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> are hidden buffers plus the wear-leveling scheme
>>>>>>> gets in the way. You wipe 'em the Hillary Clinton
>>>>>>> way - HAMMER :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Instead, use encryption, on the device or the partitions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hammer is better, because encryption can be worked around by holding a
>>>>> gun to the head of the person who knows the encryption key.
>>>>
>>>> My backup drives are encrypted. In principle they could be stolen from
>>>> here, from an offsite location or in transit and if that happens I
>>>> won’t
>>>> have the opportunity to destroy it.
>>>
>>> Exactly.
>>>
>>> And in the typical business case, hammering of disks is not often done.
>>
>> It is UNIVERSALLY done in the UK.
>> Insurance will be voided, contracts lost and people will get fired if
>> it is not.
>>
>> The big sources of usable hardware are BIG corporates - banks,
>> insurance companies, travel agencies... they dump a thousand machines
>> a year to recycling companies who sign in blood that the disk will be
>> CRUSHED.
>>
>>> Hard disks are simply repurposed, recycled, sold... usually zeroing
>>> them first. Encryption protects the case when zeroing is forgotten,
>>> or the disk breaks before that. Encryption protects against such
>>> accidents.
>>>
>> No, they are not. Not by corporations. Some Mickey Mouse companies
>> with nothing worth stealing might...
>
> 20 years ago where I worked we used the hammer and drill approach, but
> that was NEVER environmentally responsible. NOTE that Western Digital
> runs a drive recycling program for EOL hard drives. They may not pay
> you money, but they do offer credits on new hard drives.
>
> Considering that China is constricting the availability of rare earth
> magnets now I think it behooves us to recycle these drives whenever
> possible.
>
> WD claims to wipe the drives on arrival, but I still run dd -if /dev/
> urandom of=/dev/xxx multiple times on anything I send them...
man urandom
When read, the /dev/urandom device returns random bytes using
a pseudorandom number generator seeded from the entropy pool. Reads
from this device do not block (i.e., the CPU is not yielded), but can
incur an appreciable delay when requesting large amounts of data.
My utility in pascal is faster than this, it does not wait.
>
> Aside from that, I keep all my hard drives encrypted at rest.
>
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 00:56 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <4R-dnd9P7cVvvRD3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90445 |
On 8/24/26 03:50, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-08-24 01:42, Joed Oakes wrote: >> On 8/23/26 08:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 23/08/2026 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>> On 2026-08-23 11:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote: >>>>> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes: >>>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> ... >>>>>>>> are hidden buffers plus the wear-leveling scheme >>>>>>>> gets in the way. You wipe 'em the Hillary Clinton >>>>>>>> way - HAMMER :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Instead, use encryption, on the device or the partitions. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hammer is better, because encryption can be worked around by >>>>>> holding a >>>>>> gun to the head of the person who knows the encryption key. >>>>> >>>>> My backup drives are encrypted. In principle they could be stolen from >>>>> here, from an offsite location or in transit and if that happens I >>>>> won’t >>>>> have the opportunity to destroy it. >>>> >>>> Exactly. >>>> >>>> And in the typical business case, hammering of disks is not often done. >>> >>> It is UNIVERSALLY done in the UK. >>> Insurance will be voided, contracts lost and people will get fired >>> if it is not. >>> >>> The big sources of usable hardware are BIG corporates - banks, >>> insurance companies, travel agencies... they dump a thousand machines >>> a year to recycling companies who sign in blood that the disk will be >>> CRUSHED. >>> >>>> Hard disks are simply repurposed, recycled, sold... usually zeroing >>>> them first. Encryption protects the case when zeroing is forgotten, >>>> or the disk breaks before that. Encryption protects against such >>>> accidents. >>>> >>> No, they are not. Not by corporations. Some Mickey Mouse companies >>> with nothing worth stealing might... >> >> 20 years ago where I worked we used the hammer and drill approach, but >> that was NEVER environmentally responsible. NOTE that Western Digital >> runs a drive recycling program for EOL hard drives. They may not pay >> you money, but they do offer credits on new hard drives. >> >> Considering that China is constricting the availability of rare earth >> magnets now I think it behooves us to recycle these drives whenever >> possible. >> >> WD claims to wipe the drives on arrival, but I still run dd -if /dev/ >> urandom of=/dev/xxx multiple times on anything I send them... > > man urandom > > When read, the /dev/urandom device returns random bytes using > a pseudorandom number generator seeded from the entropy pool. Reads > from this device do not block (i.e., the CPU is not yielded), but can > incur an appreciable delay when requesting large amounts of data. > > My utility in pascal is faster than this, it does not wait. Yep. Still use Pascal pretty often :-) >> Aside from that, I keep all my hard drives encrypted at rest. Now I do NOT worry about people physically stealing my drives. That's just RARE. The problem is online spies. In that situation you have already unlocked those drives and they are open to being read. Now corps who let people put sensitive data onto laptops they will leave on a park bench, THEN encrypted drives are a good, important, tact.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-24 00:53 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <l9icnfjKBY0dUxb3nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90392 |
On 8/23/26 08:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 23/08/2026 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2026-08-23 11:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote: >>> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes: >>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>> ... >>>>>> are hidden buffers plus the wear-leveling scheme >>>>>> gets in the way. You wipe 'em the Hillary Clinton >>>>>> way - HAMMER :-) >>>>> >>>>> Instead, use encryption, on the device or the partitions. >>>> >>>> Hammer is better, because encryption can be worked around by holding a >>>> gun to the head of the person who knows the encryption key. >>> >>> My backup drives are encrypted. In principle they could be stolen from >>> here, from an offsite location or in transit and if that happens I won’t >>> have the opportunity to destroy it. >> >> Exactly. >> >> And in the typical business case, hammering of disks is not often done. > > It is UNIVERSALLY done in the UK. > Insurance will be voided, contracts lost and people will get fired if > it is not. Ok, still SOME intelligence in the UK ! :-) > The big sources of usable hardware are BIG corporates - banks, insurance > companies, travel agencies... they dump a thousand machines a year to > recycling companies who sign in blood that the disk will be CRUSHED. > >> Hard disks are simply repurposed, recycled, sold... usually zeroing >> them first. Encryption protects the case when zeroing is forgotten, or >> the disk breaks before that. Encryption protects against such accidents. >> > No, they are not. Not by corporations. Some Mickey Mouse companies with > nothing worth stealing might... Physical destruction IS best. This can actually be as simple as a hammer or cold chisel. However the drill-press approach will also getcha there, esp if the drill also ruins the physical mechanism for read/write. Almost all drives these days have it in the SAME location. Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive. Oh, while for a little while they made HDDs with glass platters, almost all are aluminum. Even a quarter-inch hole, followed by a small drop of toilet-cleaning hydrochloric acid (a pinch of salt added is even better) will absolutely ROT aluminum platters Real Quick. Used to keep a little vial of the brew. Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick" over them to try and recover bits of data. Defensive measures should be in proportion to the RISK. CIA probably MELTS the things. Joe's Garage does not need to - one good whack with a ball-peen will do it very nicely.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-24 06:42 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <nf27enF5rktU31@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #90427 |
On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote: > Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive. .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-24 23:34 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <4R-dnd1P7cUBkBD3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90438 |
On 8/24/26 02:42, rbowman wrote: > On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive. > > .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill. Well ... far more FUN !!! However the office manager wasn't gonna go for that ........ downer ! Oh, be careful with the 45-ACP, low velocity, has a tendency to ricochet. The .357mag is better IMHO :-) For awhile I had a high-voltage transformer meant for a furnace ignitor spark-thing. Little wire, would thunk it and turn on the transformer. Nasty sparks would then trash the chips on the disk control board. Didn't trash the platters alas, but made reading them a LOT more difficult for low-budget spies. OUR stuff wasn't worth the effort. Now likely cia/nsa have a furnace - a big pot of molten metal - and drop all their old drives into that. THEIR stuff IS 'worth it' for high-end hacks.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 04:08 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <nf4ipnF5rktU43@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #90478 |
On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 23:34:18 -0400, c186282 wrote: > On 8/24/26 02:42, rbowman wrote: >> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote: >> >>> Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive. >> >> .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill. > > Well ... far more FUN !!! > > However the office manager wasn't gonna go for that ........ downer ! The office manager wasn't involved but the programming and QA staff had their yearly bonding operation out at the range. We even got the wimpiest QA guy to fire a gun. 'See, just like Star Wars!' We had everything from muzzle loaders to ARs. One of the women's father even showed up with a P08. I always lusted after one of those, well, just because... ' Si vis pacem, para bellum.'
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 11:29 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <vs30mmxkn3.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #90481 |
On 2026-08-25 06:08, rbowman wrote: > On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 23:34:18 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> On 8/24/26 02:42, rbowman wrote: >>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote: >>> >>>> Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive. >>> >>> .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill. >> >> Well ... far more FUN !!! >> >> However the office manager wasn't gonna go for that ........ downer ! > > The office manager wasn't involved but the programming and QA staff had > their yearly bonding operation out at the range. We even got the wimpiest > QA guy to fire a gun. 'See, just like Star Wars!' > > We had everything from muzzle loaders to ARs. One of the women's father > even showed up with a P08. I always lusted after one of those, well, just > because... ' Si vis pacem, para bellum.' > You know, that's an USAian thing, over here we don't even think about doing it. :-D -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 18:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <nf66j4F5rktU50@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #90505 |
On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:29:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > You know, that's an USAian thing, over here we don't even think about > doing it. :-D The chunk of the US in particular. There is no registration or permit required in this state so it's a guess but the estimate is 63% of the households have one or more firearm, often a lot more. They used to require a concealed carry permit for incorporated areas but we got rid of that restriction a couple of years ago. Open carry was always allowed except for a few places like the courthouse and bars.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-26 04:19 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <ZfqcnWlt_dRVPBP3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90557 |
On 8/25/26 14:52, rbowman wrote: > On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:29:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > >> You know, that's an USAian thing, over here we don't even think about >> doing it. :-D > > The chunk of the US in particular. There is no registration or permit > required in this state so it's a guess but the estimate is 63% of the > households have one or more firearm, MUCH more ... they just won't make it public. People with 20/30/50 guns are not uncommon at all. BUT, note, such people almost NEVER do damage, likely to DEFEND the populace. It's the psycho lefties/illegals who are the threat. "Awww ... I didn't get the pony I wanted when I was five years old - so now everybody deserves to DIE !!!" > often a lot more. They used to > require a concealed carry permit for incorporated areas but we got rid of > that restriction a couple of years ago. Open carry was always allowed > except for a few places like the courthouse and bars. USA - you are NOT a powerless peasants obligated to kneel to your Lords. Euros don't GET that perspective. Kneeling is a built-in response. SO sad. "Is this not better ? You were born to kneel !" - "Loki" character in "Avengers" movie.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-26 09:29 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <116m84i$e9qm$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #90615 |
On 26/08/2026 09:19, c186282 wrote: > USA - you are NOT a powerless peasants obligated > to kneel to your Lords. > > Euros don't GET that perspective. Kneeling is > a built-in response. Golly. We may not have guns but we have other ways... You joke at how many prime ministers have come and gone in Britain. People power. If they are crap the people get him sacked. The elite than choose another one. Who is equally crap. As I said 'after exhausting every other alternative' The problem with the EU is that it is/was profoundly antidemocratic. There was no way to prosecute , let alone sack the executive or the president(s). -- The New Left are the people they warned you about.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-26 17:03 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <nf8kijFprcuU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #90618 |
On Wed, 26 Aug 2026 09:29:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > The problem with the EU is that it is/was profoundly antidemocratic. > There was no way to prosecute , let alone sack the executive or the > president(s). You don't like Ursus Arctos van der Leyden?
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-26 21:31 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <116nif8$uguk$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #90635 |
On 26/08/2026 18:03, rbowman wrote: > On Wed, 26 Aug 2026 09:29:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> The problem with the EU is that it is/was profoundly antidemocratic. >> There was no way to prosecute , let alone sack the executive or the >> president(s). > > You don't like Ursus Arctos van der Leyden? No. Looks like someone has a finger up her bottom to make her perform. Which is probably not far from true. -- There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons that sound good. Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 22:18 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <ZfqcnXtt_dSz0BP3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90505 |
On 8/25/26 05:29, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-08-25 06:08, rbowman wrote: >> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 23:34:18 -0400, c186282 wrote: >> >>> On 8/24/26 02:42, rbowman wrote: >>>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote: >>>> >>>>> Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive. >>>> >>>> .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill. >>> >>> Well ... far more FUN !!! >>> >>> However the office manager wasn't gonna go for that ........ >>> downer ! >> >> The office manager wasn't involved but the programming and QA staff had >> their yearly bonding operation out at the range. We even got the wimpiest >> QA guy to fire a gun. 'See, just like Star Wars!' >> >> We had everything from muzzle loaders to ARs. One of the women's father >> even showed up with a P08. I always lusted after one of those, well, just >> because... ' Si vis pacem, para bellum.' >> > > You know, that's an USAian thing, over here we don't even think about > doing it. :-D Still powerless peasants eh ? Kneel Before Your Lords ! :-) My original boss had no prob with employees carrying guns. Some of what we did was after dark and if you had to plug a crack-head, well, you weren't gonna get fired for having self-defense. Latter bosses became more sensitive to lawsuit worries however ....
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