Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #16526 > unrolled thread

what the hell?

Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc

Contents

  what the hell? HGW <hw@...> - 2015-12-24 08:36 +1100
    Re: what the hell? Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-12-23 22:46 +0100
    Re: what the hell? Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2015-12-23 23:58 +0000
    Re: what the hell? William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-12-24 00:28 +0000
      Re: what the hell? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-24 11:43 +0000
        Re: what the hell? "D. Lowe" <d.lowe@openmailbox.org> - 2015-12-24 11:57 +0000
          Re: what the hell? "D. Lowe" <d.lowe@openmailbox.org> - 2015-12-24 12:00 +0000
            Re: what the hell? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2015-12-24 08:01 -0600
            Re: what the hell? "Carlos E.R." <cer@invalid.es> - 2015-12-24 15:02 +0100
              Re: what the hell? Andreas Kohlbach <decem15.8.ankman@spamgourmet.net> - 2015-12-24 17:19 -0500
                Re: what the hell? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-01-05 12:36 +0100
                  Re: what the hell? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
        Re: what the hell? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-12-24 12:22 +0000
        Re: what the hell? Kara M'bola <maxupixu@in.val.it> - 2015-12-24 12:23 +0000
          Re: what the hell? "john@wexfordpress.com" <john@wexfordpress.com> - 2016-01-05 10:53 -0800
            Re: what the hell? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 19:16 +0000
              Re: what the hell? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-01-06 00:40 +0100
                Re: what the hell? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-06 03:13 +0000
        Re: what the hell? Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-12-24 13:52 +0100
          Re: what the hell? Andreas Kohlbach <decem15.8.ankman@spamgourmet.net> - 2015-12-24 17:23 -0500
        Re: what the hell? "Carlos E.R." <cer@invalid.es> - 2015-12-24 15:05 +0100
          Re: what the hell? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-12-24 14:24 +0000
            Re: what the hell? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-01-05 12:38 +0100
          Re: what the hell? Andreas Kohlbach <decem15.8.ankman@spamgourmet.net> - 2015-12-24 17:28 -0500
            Re: what the hell? William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2015-12-25 16:51 +0000
        Re: what the hell? ray carter <ray@zianet.com> - 2015-12-24 15:23 +0000
        Re: what the hell? Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2015-12-24 16:52 +0000
          Re: what the hell? Doug Laidlaw <doug@douglaidlaw.net> - 2015-12-25 04:16 +1100
        Re: what the hell? Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2015-12-24 09:35 -0800
        Re: what the hell? William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-12-24 18:23 +0000
        Re: what the hell? Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-12-24 23:20 +0000
          Re: what the hell? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2015-12-24 15:27 -0800
          Re: what the hell? HGW <hw@...> - 2015-12-25 12:18 +1100
            Re: what the hell? Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2015-12-24 17:29 -0800
            Re: what the hell? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2015-12-25 02:39 +0000
              Re: what the hell? HGW <hw@...> - 2015-12-25 15:54 +1100
                Re: what the hell? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-12-25 09:41 +0000
                  Re: what the hell? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-25 11:18 +0000
                Re: what the hell? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2015-12-25 16:16 +0000
                  Re: what the hell? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-25 19:35 +0000
                    Re: what the hell? Kara M'bola <maxupixu@in.val.it> - 2015-12-25 19:48 +0000
                      Re: what the hell? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-25 21:02 +0000
                        Re: what the hell? Kara M'bola <maxupixu@in.val.it> - 2015-12-25 21:47 +0000
                        Re: what the hell? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-12-25 15:43 -0600
                        Re: what the hell? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-12-26 10:42 +0000
                    Re: what the hell? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2015-12-25 21:08 +0000
                      Re: what the hell? pureheart@pacbell.net - 2015-12-30 09:23 -0800
                    Re: what the hell? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2015-12-25 15:22 -0600
                      Re: what the hell? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2015-12-25 21:50 +0000
                      Re: what the hell? Chick Tower <c.tower@deadspam.com> - 2015-12-27 03:50 +0000
                    Re: what the hell? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-12-25 21:00 -0500
                      Re: what the hell? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-26 03:55 +0000
                        Re: what the hell? Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2015-12-25 20:52 -0800
                          Re: what the hell? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-12-26 10:01 -0600
                            Re: what the hell? Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2015-12-26 11:41 -0800
                        Re: what the hell? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2015-12-26 00:16 -0600
                          Re: what the hell? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-12-26 10:47 +0000
                            Re: what the hell? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-12-26 13:40 -0500
                              Re: what the hell? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-12-26 19:38 +0000
                                Re: what the hell? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-12-26 16:27 -0500
                        Re: what the hell? Kara M'bola <maxupixu@in.val.it> - 2015-12-26 11:40 +0000
                        Re: what the hell? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-12-26 13:32 -0500
                          Re: what the hell? HGW <HG@...> - 2015-12-27 00:41 +0000
                        Re: what the hell? Chick Tower <c.tower@deadspam.com> - 2015-12-27 20:24 +0000
                          Re: what the hell? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-12-27 15:36 -0600
                        Re: what the hell? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-01-05 12:54 +0100
                          Re: what the hell? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-01-05 08:01 -0600
                            Re: what the hell? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2016-01-05 14:29 +0000
                    Re: what the hell? Chick Tower <c.tower@deadspam.com> - 2015-12-27 03:50 +0000
            Re: what the hell? William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-12-25 10:06 +0000
              Re: what the hell? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-25 11:22 +0000
                Re: what the hell? William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-12-25 16:03 +0000
                  Re: what the hell? HGW <HG@...> - 2015-12-27 00:41 +0000
                    Re: what the hell? William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-12-27 00:47 +0000
          Re: what the hell? HGW <hw@...> - 2015-12-25 12:20 +1100
    Re: what the hell? "john@wexfordpress.com" <john@wexfordpress.com> - 2016-01-05 10:43 -0800
      Re: what the hell? William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-01-05 19:50 +0000

Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →

#16570

2015-12-25, Henry Wilson wrote:
>
> For instance I am looking for a good newsreader. I downloaded TIN to try 
> it. According to Software manager it IS installed....but where is it? I 
> can't find it. I tried terminal with no success. Why all this 
> inconsistency? Why can't Linux include the required commands in the 
> downloads and save people like me a lot of time and trouble?

Sounds like it's a ripe time to read a certain classic:

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

-- 
:q!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16572

On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 19:48:27 +0000, Kara M'bola wrote:

> 2015-12-25, Henry Wilson wrote:
>>
>> For instance I am looking for a good newsreader. I downloaded TIN to
>> try it. According to Software manager it IS installed....but where is
>> it? I can't find it. I tried terminal with no success. Why all this
>> inconsistency? Why can't Linux include the required commands in the
>> downloads and save people like me a lot of time and trouble?
> 
> Sounds like it's a ripe time to read a certain classic:
> 
> http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

I wholeheartedly agree with most of the article. I am fairly new to Linux 
but am very impressed by it. However, the kind of inconsistency I 
mentioned above can hardly be justified in any system. Apparently some 
packages are supposedly installed as stated but are not really 
'installed' in all meanings of the word. It would be an easy matter to 
provide a few instructions with each download if the relevant package 
needs additional treatment. 

Now, can you or can you not tell me if there is a simple and consistent 
way of running a package like TIN, which is apparently installed in my 
computer but is nowhere to be seen...and it is not the only one I have 
tried. If you  can't then it is probably time you went back to using 
Microsoft.   

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16575

2015-12-25, Henry Wilson wrote:
>
> Now, can you or can you not tell me if there is a simple and consistent 
> way of running a package like TIN, which is apparently installed in my 
> computer but is nowhere to be seen...and it is not the only one I have 
> tried.

Launch your terminal and type "tin". If something fails, post errors so
that we have something to work from.

> If you  can't then it is probably time you went back to using 
> Microsoft.   

That makes no sense and I think you know it.

-- 
:q!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16576

Henry Wilson writes:
> Now, can you or can you not tell me if there is a simple and
> consistent way of running a package like TIN, which is apparently
> installed in my computer but is nowhere to be seen...and it is not the
> only one I have tried.

I just installed tin:

thumper/~ 19 sudo apt-get install tin
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  tin
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2132 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/686 kB of archives.
After this operation, 2,316 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Preconfiguring packages ...
Selecting previously unselected package tin.
(Reading database ... 516770 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../tin_1%3a2.3.1-1+b1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking tin (1:2.3.1-1+b1) ...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.7.0.2-5) ...
Processing triggers for menu (2.1.47) ...
Setting up tin (1:2.3.1-1+b1) ...
Processing triggers for menu (2.1.47) ...

And ran it:

thumper/~ 19 tin -r
                                                      Group Selection (news.dhh.gt.org  14)          h=help

     1    15  alt.med.veterinary                Veterinary medicine and animal health
     2   484  alt.os.linux                      Discussion of Linux, a SysVish 386 PD OS.
     3    88  alt.os.linux.debian               -x-
     4        alt.pets.parrots.african-grey     -x-
     5     1  comp.emacs                        EMACS editors of different flavors.
     6     1  comp.os.linux.announce            Announcements important to the Linux community. (Moderated)
     7     4  comp.os.linux.development.apps    Writing Linux applications, porting to Linux.
     8   118  comp.os.linux.misc                Linux-specific topics not covered by other groups.
     9    13  comp.os.linux.setup               Linux installation and system administration.
    10        gnu.misc.discuss                  Serious discussion about GNU and freed software.
    11        comp.os.linux.development.system  Linux kernels, device drivers, modules.
    12        newsguy.announce                  -x-
    13     1  rec.equestrian                    Discussion of things equestrian.
    14     7  rec.sport.fencing                 All aspects of swordplay.

Works fine.

You are aware that tin has no GUI and is to be started from the command
line, are you not?  And that you need to at least glance at the man page
before using it if you are not already familiar with it?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16591

On 25/12/15 21:02, Henry Wilson wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 19:48:27 +0000, Kara M'bola wrote:
>
>> 2015-12-25, Henry Wilson wrote:
>>>
>>> For instance I am looking for a good newsreader. I downloaded TIN to
>>> try it. According to Software manager it IS installed....but where is
>>> it? I can't find it. I tried terminal with no success. Why all this
>>> inconsistency? Why can't Linux include the required commands in the
>>> downloads and save people like me a lot of time and trouble?
>>
>> Sounds like it's a ripe time to read a certain classic:
>>
>> http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
>
> I wholeheartedly agree with most of the article. I am fairly new to Linux
> but am very impressed by it. However, the kind of inconsistency I
> mentioned above can hardly be justified in any system. Apparently some
> packages are supposedly installed as stated but are not really
> 'installed' in all meanings of the word. It would be an easy matter to
> provide a few instructions with each download if the relevant package
> needs additional treatment.
>
It is the responsibility of the distro to ensure that its packages are 
not just installed, but accessible using that distros window manager.

If you install from 3rd party repositories, that responsibility is yours.

The flexibility of Linux with the ability to run half a dozen window 
managers instead of just one, comes at this particular price

> Now, can you or can you not tell me if there is a simple and consistent
> way of running a package like TIN, which is apparently installed in my
> computer but is nowhere to be seen...and it is not the only one I have
> tried. If you  can't then it is probably time you went back to using
> Microsoft.
>

Sure, but it depends what you mean by "a simple and consistent way" and 
what window manager you are running

For example if I 3want a launcher that has an icon I can right click on 
the desktop, select 'create launcher' and launch a program with whatever 
command I would type into a terminal, and even select an icon to go with 
it. Or I can add it to menus in a similar way.

YMMV

-- 
the biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly 
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential 
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations 
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with 
what it actually is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16573

On Friday, December 25th, 2015, at 19:35:59h +0000,
Henry Wilson observed:

> There is a general problem with installing packages on linux.
> After downloading with software manager some appear with an icon in the 
> menu, others such as Google Earth do not.  

The menu is related to the window manager or desktop environment
which you are using.

Not all software packages (usually the older ones) include the
necessary configuration details for the package manager to
update the menu for the the window managers/desktop environments
including the one you happend to be using.

> For instance I am looking for a good newsreader. I downloaded TIN to try 
> it. According to Software manager it IS installed....but where is it?

Almost all user application executables will get installed to /usr/bin.

For software installed with the package manager (apt and associates)
you can see what files are located where with the command

        dpkg -L  package_name

and the executable will almost always be in /usr/bin.

System essential executables are usually in (just) /bin.

and those which are only usually useful for administration
(and mostly need, but not always administrator privileges to
function properly) are in /sbin or /usr/sbin.

For complicated software invocations, what is frequently done
is to write a shell script which has the name of the
application that gets put into /usr/bin.

That shell script setups up various environmental variables
and maybe creates some user directories if necessary, and
then calls the actual binary which is located in /usr/lib,
firefox being one of the best examples -- do

        more /usr/bin/firefox

for all the gory details.

Now the reason why you do not see it in your menu is as follows.

Tin does not have a GUI interface -- ie it does not have widgets
to display in a window.  It is run from within a terminal.

So in order to run tin, one first needs to fire up a terminal,
and as far as I am aware, no package managers bother to do the
necessary magic to create menu entries to fire up a terminal
running the application within it.  You can of course create these
manually if you wish, but you first have to decide which X terminal
emulator you want to run the application in, xterm and associates
such as rxvt and urxvt allow this, as well as mate-terminal and others,
with the -e command line switch as in

         urxvt -e name_of_executable

To be safe it is sensible to include the full path to the executable
if it is not in /usr/bin, so in my case where tin has not been
installed by the package management system but as a source code build

         urxvt -e /usr/local/bin/tin

> I can't find it. I tried terminal with no success. Why all this 
> inconsistency?

> Why can't Linux include the required commands in the 
> downloads and save people like me a lot of time and trouble?

It is not an issue with Linux because that is only the kernel.

It is no good complaining about Linux or sending off hate mail
to Linus Torvalds, but you need to complain to whoever has put
together the package for your distribution and ask them to make
menu entries for all the possible desktops with whatever_terminal_emulator
is available to run the executable.

For a better understanding of the automagical menu entry creating system
for freedesktop compliant systems

    <http://standards.freedesktop.ORG/menu-spec/menu-spec-1.0.html>

and if you are on a Debian based system (eg Debian, Ubuntu, Mint etc)
take a look at the details for the Debian implementation by pointing
your browser to the file

    <file:///usr/share/doc/menu/html/index.html>

As for newsreaders, I would recommend pan 

    <http://pan.rebelbase.COM/>

or perhaps xpn

    <http://xpn.altervista.ORG/index-en.html>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16653

On Friday, December 25, 2015 at 1:11:11 PM UTC-8, J G Miller wrote:
<snip>
> Not all software packages (usually the older ones) include the
> necessary configuration details for the package manager to
> update the menu for the the window managers/desktop environments
> including the one you happend to be using.
> 
> > For instance I am looking for a good newsreader. I downloaded TIN to try 
> > it. According to Software manager it IS installed....but where is it?
> 
> Almost all user application executables will get installed to /usr/bin.

<snip>

Thank-you, J G Miller for taking the time to put together this excellent post/tutorial.
I wish I had seen something like this early on in my linux journey.
This is one I'm going to save.
pH in Aptos, CA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16574

At Fri, 25 Dec 2015 19:35:59 +0000 (UTC) Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> wrote:

> 
> On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 16:16:25 +0000, J G Miller wrote:
> 
> > On Friday, December 25th, 2015, at 15:54:12h +1100,
> > Henry G Wilson wrote:
> > 
> >> Thank you.  You were the only person who offered any worthwhile
> >> assistance.
> > 
> > You are most welcome -- the difficulty with issues like these is always
> > trying to find and deliver the necessary information and/or instructions
> > in a format which is clear and concise but sufficiently detailed.
> > 
> >> I finally got it up and running.
> > 
> > That is good news and remember that for all the hassle this has involved
> > you have learnt a bit about installing packages and any necessary
> > dependencies,
> > so it will come in useful for the future.
> 
> Not so far.
> 
> > If it was all too easy, you would probably forget ;+}
> 
> There is a general problem with installing packages on linux.
> After downloading with software manager some appear with an icon in the 
> menu, others such as Google Earth do not.  

This is entirely the responsibility of the installer to put the necessary
files to get the icon in the menu. OTOH, some software one might install under
Linux has no reason for install a menu icon (server daemons, CLI only
programs, etc.). OTOH, there is no requirement to even have a desktop menu on
a Linux system (most Linux distros allow for a console only install) . OTOH,
there are any number of 'non-standard' GUI menu hacks available for Linux 
(typically various 'old-school' window manager only type GUIs of the type 
typical from the days before 'start menus' and graphical file managers).

MS-Windows *always* has a desktop GUI. Are there is only one. And there isn't
much in the way of a non-graphical user-interface under MS-Windows. As opposed
to Linux: multiple non-graphical user-interfaces (many different shell
programs: bash, tcsh. zsh, ksh, etc.) and many different GUI systems (Gnome,
KDE, fvwm, twm, xfce, etc.)

> 
> For instance I am looking for a good newsreader. I downloaded TIN to try 
> it. According to Software manager it IS installed....but where is it? I 
> can't find it. I tried terminal with no success. Why all this 
> inconsistency? Why can't Linux include the required commands in the 
> downloads and save people like me a lot of time and trouble?

See above.

Note: *most* package managers do have a 'list' command:

dpkg-query -L somepackage | grep bin
rpm -ql somepackage | grep bin

These two commands (one for a Debian flavored, the other for RedHat flavored)
will list whatever was installed in /bin, /usr/bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin, or
/opt/bin, or whatever. This is typically where the runnable *program* (if any)
would get installed, assuming the package contains a 'runnable program' -- not
all packages install runnable programs (eg libraries, plugins for other
programs, pure 'data' packages (fonts, images, etc.).

> 
> > So you can go on some virtual visits now  ;+)
> 
> It is pretty realistic. I have been using it for many years on Windows.
>                                                                                                          

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                    

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16577

On Friday, December 25th, 2015, at 15:22:13h -0600,
Robert Heller explained:

> MS-Windows *always* has a desktop GUI. Are there is only one.

Actually there have been a number of alternative GUI shells (with
the feature of multiple desktops/workspaces) for MicroSloth Windoze.

There were started back in the 98 and XP days, but most people are
sadly totally unaware of their existence.

Three of the original major players 

     Litestep    <http://www.litestep.NET/>

     LDE(X)      <http://ldex.terica.NET/>

     AstonShell  <http://www.astonshell.COM/>

More recent actively developed alternatives are included in the review at

     <http://www.online-tech-tips.COM/software-reviews/7-best-windows-alternative-shell-replacement-programs/>

If people want to run Windoze programs in a Windoze like system,
they should be looking at ReactOS which has finally started to
gather momentum/gain traction.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16627

On 2015-12-25, Robert Heller wrote:
> This is entirely the responsibility of the installer to put the necessary
> files to get the icon in the menu. OTOH, some software one might install under
> Linux has no reason for install a menu icon (server daemons, CLI only
> programs, etc.). OTOH, there is no requirement to even have a desktop menu on
> a Linux system (most Linux distros allow for a console only install) . OTOH,
> there are any number of 'non-standard' GUI menu hacks available for Linux 
> (typically various 'old-school' window manager only type GUIs of the type 
> typical from the days before 'start menus' and graphical file managers).

Just how many "other hands" do you have?
-- 
                                 Chick Tower

For e-mail:  colm DOT sent DOT towerboy AT xoxy DOT net

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16581

Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> writes:

> On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 16:16:25 +0000, J G Miller wrote:
>
>> On Friday, December 25th, 2015, at 15:54:12h +1100,
>> Henry G Wilson wrote:
>> 
>>> Thank you.  You were the only person who offered any worthwhile
>>> assistance.
>> 
>> You are most welcome -- the difficulty with issues like these is always
>> trying to find and deliver the necessary information and/or instructions
>> in a format which is clear and concise but sufficiently detailed.
>> 
>>> I finally got it up and running.
>> 
>> That is good news and remember that for all the hassle this has involved
>> you have learnt a bit about installing packages and any necessary
>> dependencies,
>> so it will come in useful for the future.
>
> Not so far.
>
>> If it was all too easy, you would probably forget ;+}
>
> There is a general problem with installing packages on linux.
> After downloading with software manager some appear with an icon in the 
> menu, others such as Google Earth do not.  

Contact the Google Earth developers.

> For instance I am looking for a good newsreader. I downloaded TIN to try 
> it. According to Software manager it IS installed....but where is it? I 
> can't find it. I tried terminal with no success. Why all this 
> inconsistency? Why can't Linux include the required commands in the 
> downloads and save people like me a lot of time and trouble?

It's got to be /usr/bin/tin.
More important, you should be able to open a terminal window
and type:

tin

Were you expecting the process to be more complicated?

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16582

On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 21:00:41 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

> Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> writes:

>>> 
>>>> I finally got it up and running.
>>> 
>>> That is good news and remember that for all the hassle this has
>>> involved you have learnt a bit about installing packages and any
>>> necessary dependencies,
>>> so it will come in useful for the future.
>>
>> Not so far.
>>
>>> If it was all too easy, you would probably forget ;+}
>>
>> There is a general problem with installing packages on linux.
>> After downloading with software manager some appear with an icon in the
>> menu, others such as Google Earth do not.
> 
> Contact the Google Earth developers.

The GE icon appeared in the menu after I finally got it going after good 
advice from Miller. The problem is with Linux. It is plainly lacking some 
very simple, convenient and time saving features. Not every aspect of 
Microsoft is bad.
 
>> For instance I am looking for a good newsreader. I downloaded TIN to
>> try it. According to Software manager it IS installed....but where is
>> it? I can't find it. I tried terminal with no success. Why all this
>> inconsistency? Why can't Linux include the required commands in the
>> downloads and save people like me a lot of time and trouble?
> 
> It's got to be /usr/bin/tin.
> More important, you should be able to open a terminal window and type:
> 
> tin

I tried that it doesn't do much.
It merely told me to try more commands.

> Were you expecting the process to be more complicated?

I don't want TIN now. I merely wanted to have a quick look to see if it 
was any good. After wasting about ten hours I found it wasn't. ...but 
there are others packages that are just as hard to locate and open. 

What is the most popular news reader here? I am using Pan now and it is 
reasonable but not as good as Forte Agent. Pan installed and opened 
without any need for terminal commands. It inserted an icon in menu/
internet. What is so hard about arranging for all packages to do the 
same. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16583

On 2015-12-26, Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> wrote:
>
> The problem is with Linux.

The problem is very clearly not with linux.  And if you continue to
blame linux you will simply hate it more and more.  If you really want
to continue to use it you will need to adjust to how it works, and stop
expecting it to work the way you think it should.

> What is the most popular news reader here?

You'll probably get a few dozen answers, so popularity may not be the
best question to ask.  You'd be better off saying specifically what
features you're looking for, and asking what software supports them.  Of
course the last time you were asked for specific details you didn't
provide them, you just complained more about linux.

> I am using Pan now and it is 
> reasonable but not as good as Forte Agent.

Not everyone here has used Forte, so if you do ever decide to provide
specific details, be sure not to say "just like Forte Agent".

> What is so hard about arranging for all packages to do the same. 

Because not all packages are the same.  My preferred newsreader, slrn,
is also a terminal-based program, and having an icon for it would be
somewhat silly.  (You certainly could have one, but as a packager I
would assume that someone installing slrn would want to run it from an
open terminal, or make his own launcher icon.)  tin is the same way.
The package maintainer can sometimes have the packager ask configuration
questions on install, but sometimes this isn't desirable because each
user may need a different configuration (and tin would probably fall
into this latter category).

One of the biggest advantages of linux can also seem like a drawback:
there are so many options out there that it can make providing one
uniform interface very difficult, and as a result there are often
multiple ways of doing the same thing.  You will need to adjust to this
if you stay with linux.

--keith


-- 
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16609

Keith Kelle writes:
> One of the biggest advantages of linux can also seem like a drawback:
> there are so many options out there that it can make providing one
> uniform interface very difficult...

However you as user can choose (on the basis of some metric such as
popularity) a distribution such as Ubuntu and a uniform interface such
as Gnome (with Ubuntu you'll get Gnome by default) and ignore all
non-Gnome software and anything not in the distribution archive.
Freedom of choice implies the ability to choose not to choose.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16615

On 2015-12-26, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> However you as user can choose (on the basis of some metric such as
> popularity) a distribution such as Ubuntu and a uniform interface such
> as Gnome (with Ubuntu you'll get Gnome by default) and ignore all
> non-Gnome software and anything not in the distribution archive.
> Freedom of choice implies the ability to choose not to choose.

This is certainly true.  The OP seems to have chosen to ignore the
choice not to choose.

--keith


-- 
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16584

At Sat, 26 Dec 2015 03:55:56 +0000 (UTC) Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> wrote:

> 
> On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 21:00:41 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:
> 
> > Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> writes:
> 
> >>> 
> >>>> I finally got it up and running.
> >>> 
> >>> That is good news and remember that for all the hassle this has
> >>> involved you have learnt a bit about installing packages and any
> >>> necessary dependencies,
> >>> so it will come in useful for the future.
> >>
> >> Not so far.
> >>
> >>> If it was all too easy, you would probably forget ;+}
> >>
> >> There is a general problem with installing packages on linux.
> >> After downloading with software manager some appear with an icon in the
> >> menu, others such as Google Earth do not.
> > 
> > Contact the Google Earth developers.
> 
> The GE icon appeared in the menu after I finally got it going after good 
> advice from Miller. The problem is with Linux. It is plainly lacking some 
> very simple, convenient and time saving features. Not every aspect of 
> Microsoft is bad.
>  
> >> For instance I am looking for a good newsreader. I downloaded TIN to
> >> try it. According to Software manager it IS installed....but where is
> >> it? I can't find it. I tried terminal with no success. Why all this
> >> inconsistency? Why can't Linux include the required commands in the
> >> downloads and save people like me a lot of time and trouble?
> > 
> > It's got to be /usr/bin/tin.
> > More important, you should be able to open a terminal window and type:
> > 
> > tin
> 
> I tried that it doesn't do much.
> It merely told me to try more commands.
> 
> > Were you expecting the process to be more complicated?
> 
> I don't want TIN now. I merely wanted to have a quick look to see if it 
> was any good. After wasting about ten hours I found it wasn't. ...but 
> there are others packages that are just as hard to locate and open. 
> 
> What is the most popular news reader here? I am using Pan now and it is 
> reasonable but not as good as Forte Agent. Pan installed and opened 
> without any need for terminal commands. It inserted an icon in menu/
> internet. What is so hard about arranging for all packages to do the 
> same. 

It only makes sense to insert an icon in the GUI menu system IF the
application is a GUI application. Tin is NOT a GUI application -- it is a CLI
application and it only makes sense to launch it from the command line (shell
prompt). *Many* Linux packages only install CLI applications and it makes no
sense to install something in the GUI menu system. As I stated earlier, it is
very possible to install Linux *without the GUI*, unlike MS-Windows, which is
never installed without the GUI -- OEMs never install MS-Windows that way --
all OEM MS-Windows boxes will always have the standard GUI installed, even if
it is possible to install an aftermarket GUI or possibly uninstall the GUI 
later (?).

The Mail/news reader *I* use, while using a GUI, does not bother to install 
itself into the 'standard' GUI menu, mainly because *I* don't use the 
'standard' GUI menu.  *I* use a non-standard menu application, because I use a 
non-standard GUI.

> 
>                                                                                                                

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                            

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16592

On 26/12/15 06:16, Robert Heller wrote:
> Tin is NOT a GUI application -- it is a CLI
> application and it only makes sense to launch it from the command line (shell
> prompt).

Oh don't be silly.,

It's perfectly possible  with most of the terminal (console) apps (and 
makes complete sense) to set up a launcher and launch a dedicated shell 
terminal that runs only e.g. tin.

If you 'live' in the gui environment, its the sanest way to do it


-- 
the biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly 
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential 
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations 
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with 
what it actually is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16613

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

> On 26/12/15 06:16, Robert Heller wrote:
>> Tin is NOT a GUI application -- it is a CLI
>> application and it only makes sense to launch it from the command line (shell
>> prompt).
>
> Oh don't be silly.,
>
> It's perfectly possible  with most of the terminal (console) apps (and
> makes complete sense) to set up a launcher and launch a dedicated
> shell terminal that runs only e.g. tin.
>
> If you 'live' in the gui environment, its the sanest way to do it

Really?

All these years of launching command line programs and never once did
I want a fresh "rxvt" launched to host a command line program.

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16614

On 26/12/15 18:40, Dan Espen wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 26/12/15 06:16, Robert Heller wrote:
>>> Tin is NOT a GUI application -- it is a CLI
>>> application and it only makes sense to launch it from the command line (shell
>>> prompt).
>>
>> Oh don't be silly.,
>>
>> It's perfectly possible  with most of the terminal (console) apps (and
>> makes complete sense) to set up a launcher and launch a dedicated
>> shell terminal that runs only e.g. tin.
>>
>> If you 'live' in the gui environment, its the sanest way to do it
>
> Really?
>
> All these years of launching command line programs and never once did
> I want a fresh "rxvt" launched to host a command line program.
>
well you live in the console. Some people do not

And I said it was the sanest way to do it, not your way.

-- 
the biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly 
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential 
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations 
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with 
what it actually is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16618

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

> On 26/12/15 18:40, Dan Espen wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 26/12/15 06:16, Robert Heller wrote:
>>>> Tin is NOT a GUI application -- it is a CLI
>>>> application and it only makes sense to launch it from the command line (shell
>>>> prompt).
>>>
>>> Oh don't be silly.,
>>>
>>> It's perfectly possible  with most of the terminal (console) apps (and
>>> makes complete sense) to set up a launcher and launch a dedicated
>>> shell terminal that runs only e.g. tin.
>>>
>>> If you 'live' in the gui environment, its the sanest way to do it
>>
>> Really?
>>
>> All these years of launching command line programs and never once did
>> I want a fresh "rxvt" launched to host a command line program.
>>
> well you live in the console.

Nope.

> Some people do not
>
> And I said it was the sanest way to do it, not your way.

If you think so.

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.os.linux.misc

csiph-web