Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #14079 > unrolled thread

Learning about the Kernal

Started byruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com>
First post2015-03-14 19:59 -0400
Last post2015-03-17 01:52 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 78 — 19 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc


Contents

  Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2015-03-14 19:59 -0400
    Re: Learning about the Kernal Xavier Roche <xroche@free.fr.NOSPAM.invalid> - 2015-03-15 11:11 +0100
      Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben <nowhere@nowhere.nor> - 2015-03-15 21:14 +0000
        Re: Learning about the Kernal Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2015-03-16 10:02 +0200
          Re: Learning about the Kernal Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn@panix.com> - 2015-03-17 00:18 +0000
            Re: Learning about the Kernal Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2015-03-16 20:53 -0700
              Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-17 05:14 +0000
              Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-17 05:23 +0000
        Re: Learning about the Kernal Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-03-16 21:58 -0400
          Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-17 05:21 +0000
            Re: Learning about the Kernal Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-17 10:51 +0000
            Re: Learning about the Kernal Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-03-17 09:10 -0400
              Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2015-03-17 14:12 -0400
                Re: Learning about the Kernal William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-17 19:03 +0000
                  Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-17 19:08 +0000
                    Re: Learning about the Kernal Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-03-17 15:17 -0400
                      Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-20 01:06 +0000
                        Re: Learning about the Kernal Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-03-19 23:52 -0400
                        Re: Learning about the Kernal Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-20 10:52 +0000
                          Re: Learning about the Kernal Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2015-03-20 20:33 +0000
                            Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2015-04-20 09:48 -0400
                Re: Learning about the Kernal Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-03-17 15:08 -0400
                  Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-18 03:36 +0000
                    Re: Learning about the Kernal Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-03-18 10:09 -0400
                      Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-20 01:04 +0000
                      Re: Learning about the Kernal Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-20 10:58 +0000
                        Re: Learning about the Kernal Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-03-20 09:22 -0400
                          Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-20 18:39 +0000
                          Re: Learning about the Kernal Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-20 20:04 +0000
                            Re: Learning about the Kernal Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-03-20 21:10 -0400
                              Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-21 05:03 +0000
                        Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-20 18:42 +0000
                          Re: Learning about the Kernal Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-03-20 15:31 -0400
                            Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-21 05:13 +0000
                              Re: Learning about the Kernal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-21 09:13 +0000
                                Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben <nowhere@nowhere.nor> - 2015-03-21 14:40 +0000
                                  Re: Learning about the Kernal Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-03-21 12:20 -0400
                                    Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-21 19:54 +0000
                                      Re: Learning about the Kernal Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-03-21 17:56 -0400
                                    Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-21 19:56 +0000
                                  Re: Learning about the Kernal Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-03-21 16:18 +0000
            Re: Learning about the Kernal Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2015-03-17 16:10 +0200
              Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2015-03-17 14:06 -0400
                Re: Learning about the Kernal William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-17 19:00 +0000
                  Re: Learning about the Kernal Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2015-03-17 19:05 +0000
                    Re: Learning about the Kernal Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2015-03-17 14:17 -0700
                    Re: Learning about the Kernal William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-19 06:04 +0000
                      Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-21 08:45 +0000
                  Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-21 08:20 +0000
                    Re: Learning about the Kernal Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-21 16:09 +0000
                      Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-21 20:10 +0000
                Re: Learning about the Kernal Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2015-03-17 22:39 +0200
            Re: Learning about the Kernal Chick Tower <c.tower@deadspam.com> - 2015-03-18 03:35 +0000
              Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-21 08:47 +0000
                Re: Learning about the Kernal Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2015-03-21 20:19 +0000
                  Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-21 20:30 +0000
                    Re: Learning about the Kernal Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2015-03-22 20:05 +0000
                      Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2015-03-23 01:16 -0400
                        Re: Learning about the Kernal Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2015-03-23 20:27 +0000
                          Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-25 02:57 +0000
                          Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-25 02:59 +0000
                            Re: Learning about the Kernal Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2015-03-25 20:59 +0000
                              Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2015-04-20 09:44 -0400
                  Re: Learning about the Kernal Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-03-22 00:07 +0100
                    Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-22 00:07 +0000
                      Re: Learning about the Kernal Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-03-22 01:13 +0100
                        Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-22 03:11 +0000
                          Re: Learning about the Kernal Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-03-22 04:20 +0100
                            Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-22 13:19 +0000
                              Re: Learning about the Kernal Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-22 15:13 +0000
                              Re: Learning about the Kernal Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-03-22 21:52 +0100
                            Re: Learning about the Kernal Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2015-03-22 20:13 +0000
                              Re: Learning about the Kernal Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-03-22 22:01 +0100
                Re: Learning about the Kernal Chick Tower <c.tower@deadspam.com> - 2015-03-23 04:02 +0000
                  Re: Learning about the Kernal Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-03-23 05:13 +0100
                    Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben <ceo@iran.gov> - 2015-04-12 13:03 +0000
        Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <dont@email.me> - 2015-03-17 05:18 +0000
        Re: Learning about the Kernal ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2015-03-17 01:52 -0400

Page 2 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4  Next page →


#14596

Fromruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com>
Date2015-04-20 09:48 -0400
Message-ID<mh303k$c7u$2@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#14176
On 03/20/2015 04:33 PM, Jerry Peters wrote:
> You could always write a custom install script. Make install looks for
> 'installkernel' in /root/bin and IIRC /sbin, if it finds it, make
> install uses that in preference to its own install recipe.

noted

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14127

FromDan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
Date2015-03-17 15:08 -0400
Message-ID<me9u23$49a$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14122
ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> writes:

> On 03/17/2015 09:10 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
>> ruben safir <dont@email.me> writes:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 21:58:30 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is that the "advice" you are looking for?
>>>
>>> I suppose the advise I was looking for was what is folks best experience 
>>> to handling custom kernel builds and hacking, including the alerations 
>>> that have to happen in grub  I want to set up a comfortable methodology 
>>> to write, compile, install, boot, run, test
>> 
>> "alterations in grub"?
>> 
>> Can you be more specific.
>
> so the OS has grub set with a cofig that allows for it to boot in a
> pretty way (obviously)

Still  not very clear.
Are you referring the "prettyness" that each distro imparts buy
having grub2 display different splash screens?  That's hardly
alterations in grub.

> Manjaro has its standard kernels listed under "advanced options"

Manjaro is at 0.9 something.
That would not be my choice.
Never the less, most distros have source debs or rpms
and set procedures for doing so.

> I need to add my own to their list.

I guess.  Not sure though why.
Fedora for 32 bit has a PAE and non-PAE vernal,
but the 64 bit Fedora only has one and I don't see why
it would need any more.  Still, there should only be
one set of source, and instructions  on how to build
different kernels.

>> If you are trying to learn something low level, you need to focus
>> in on specifics.
>> 
>>> and remix
>
> I ment that then I need to code, compile, run and test again and again.

I see.  Well, code/compile/run is not called "remix".
You need to communicate better.

>> Linux secure remix?  Don't know much about it or why you
>> just threw that out.
>> 
>>> The make file is still trying to run lilo.
>> 
>> What makefile?
>> Makefiles are not going to "run" lilo.
>
> but
> make install does.  It must be in the Makefike, or make wouldn't try
> executing /sbin/lilo

Might make sense if it's running:

/sbin/lilo -M

which can create the master boot record.
But I'm a bit confused at anything current using Lilo.
Lilo entered ancient status way back.

>> They might build lilo but since you don't mention a distro
>> or anything specific I'm still in the dark.
>>
> It is Manjaro with openrc

Ah, openrc.
Are you trying to avoid something with systemd?
Bad approach if that's what you are up to.

Get something more mainstream.
Everything will be much more likely to work.

Really, it's been ages since I had to compile a kernel,
but find a major distro, Fedora/Ubuntu, etc.  You'll find
lots of online guidance on how to download and compile the
kernel source.  Then you'll be able to find the scheduler code
in the kernel source tree and start making alterations.

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14135

Fromruben safir <dont@email.me>
Date2015-03-18 03:36 +0000
Message-ID<mearr5$i83$1@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#14127
On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 15:08:33 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:


> Manjaro is at 0.9 something.
> That would not be my choice.
> Never the less, most distros have source debs or rpms and set procedures
> for doing so.

it is my choice, however, because they have a nice lightweight working 
version that is relatively up to data and runs on openrc rather than 
systemd.




-- 
The Coin Hangout: http://www.coinhangout.com/home

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14141

FromDan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
Date2015-03-18 10:09 -0400
Message-ID<mec0ta$qnl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14135
ruben safir <dont@email.me> writes:

> On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 15:08:33 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>
>> Manjaro is at 0.9 something.
>> That would not be my choice.
>> Never the less, most distros have source debs or rpms and set procedures
>> for doing so.
>
> it is my choice, however, because they have a nice lightweight working 
> version that is relatively up to data and runs on openrc rather than 
> systemd.

Well, if you consider no systemd a benefit,
good luck with your 0.9 software.

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14161

Fromruben safir <dont@email.me>
Date2015-03-20 01:04 +0000
Message-ID<mefrn5$qc6$1@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#14141
On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 10:09:30 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

>> it is my choice, however, because they have a nice lightweight working
>> version that is relatively up to data and runs on openrc rather than
>> systemd.
> 
> Well, if you consider no systemd a benefit,
> good luck with your 0.9 software.

that is an ignorant thing to post.



-- 
The Coin Hangout: http://www.coinhangout.com/home

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14166

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2015-03-20 10:58 +0000
Message-ID<meguh3$q9c$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14141
Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
> ruben safir <dont@email.me> writes:

> > On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 15:08:33 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Manjaro is at 0.9 something.
> >> That would not be my choice.
> >> Never the less, most distros have source debs or rpms and set
> >> procedures for doing so.
> >
> > it is my choice, however, because they have a nice lightweight
> > working version that is relatively up to data and runs on openrc
> > rather than systemd.

> Well, if you consider no systemd a benefit,
> good luck with your 0.9 software.

Yes Dan, we all know you consider systemd the next best thing since
sliced bread.

But, not all of us share your opinion of systemd.  For those of us who
do not like it, our reasons may vary, and you may disagree with those
reasons, but the fact is we do not like it one bit and do not ever want
it on our systems.

Therefore, for those of us who do not like systemd, then having no
systemd is indeed a huge benefit.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14167

FromDan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
Date2015-03-20 09:22 -0400
Message-ID<meh6u0$onu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14166
Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:

> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>> ruben safir <dont@email.me> writes:
>
>> > On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 15:08:33 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> Manjaro is at 0.9 something.
>> >> That would not be my choice.
>> >> Never the less, most distros have source debs or rpms and set
>> >> procedures for doing so.
>> >
>> > it is my choice, however, because they have a nice lightweight
>> > working version that is relatively up to data and runs on openrc
>> > rather than systemd.
>
>> Well, if you consider no systemd a benefit,
>> good luck with your 0.9 software.
>
> Yes Dan, we all know you consider systemd the next best thing since
> sliced bread.
>
> But, not all of us share your opinion of systemd.  For those of us who
> do not like it, our reasons may vary, and you may disagree with those
> reasons, but the fact is we do not like it one bit and do not ever want
> it on our systems.
>
> Therefore, for those of us who do not like systemd, then having no
> systemd is indeed a huge benefit.

Yes, and systemd is completely irrelevant to working on a kernel
scheduling algorithm.  Which is my point.

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14171

Fromruben safir <dont@email.me>
Date2015-03-20 18:39 +0000
Message-ID<mehph0$aj0$1@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#14167
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 09:22:57 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:


>> Therefore, for those of us who do not like systemd, then having no
>> systemd is indeed a huge benefit.
> 
> Yes, and systemd is completely irrelevant to working on a kernel
> scheduling algorithm.  Which is my point.

I agree, almost.  It is not directly involved by the openrc distro is 
lighter and has less hooks and is a smaller footprint and runs faster on 
a virtual box and is just all around easier to handle.  And that is why I 
choose to use it.

There is a lot of binding between the kernel and systemd, but more 
importantly to me is the small foot print, and ease of installation. for 
this project.

Ruben



-- 
The Coin Hangout: http://www.coinhangout.com/home

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14175

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2015-03-20 20:04 +0000
Message-ID<mehufu$u0h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14167
Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:

> > Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> ruben safir <dont@email.me> writes:
> >
> >> > On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 15:08:33 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Manjaro is at 0.9 something.
> >> >> That would not be my choice.
> >> >> Never the less, most distros have source debs or rpms and set
> >> >> procedures for doing so.
> >> >
> >> > it is my choice, however, because they have a nice lightweight
> >> > working version that is relatively up to data and runs on openrc
> >> > rather than systemd.
> >
> >> Well, if you consider no systemd a benefit,
> >> good luck with your 0.9 software.
> >
> > Yes Dan, we all know you consider systemd the next best thing since
> > sliced bread.
> >
> > But, not all of us share your opinion of systemd.  For those of us who
> > do not like it, our reasons may vary, and you may disagree with those
> > reasons, but the fact is we do not like it one bit and do not ever want
> > it on our systems.
> >
> > Therefore, for those of us who do not like systemd, then having no
> > systemd is indeed a huge benefit.

> Yes, and systemd is completely irrelevant to working on a kernel
> scheduling algorithm.

True.

> Which is my point.

Fine, but that was not at all clear (in fact, it was completely
missing) from what otherwise looked like a below-the-belt systemd
insult.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14178

FromDan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
Date2015-03-20 21:10 -0400
Message-ID<meigci$4o2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14175
Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:

> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:
>
>> > Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> ruben safir <dont@email.me> writes:
>> >
>> >> > On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 15:08:33 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Manjaro is at 0.9 something.
>> >> >> That would not be my choice.
>> >> >> Never the less, most distros have source debs or rpms and set
>> >> >> procedures for doing so.
>> >> >
>> >> > it is my choice, however, because they have a nice lightweight
>> >> > working version that is relatively up to data and runs on openrc
>> >> > rather than systemd.
>> >
>> >> Well, if you consider no systemd a benefit,
>> >> good luck with your 0.9 software.
>> >
>> > Yes Dan, we all know you consider systemd the next best thing since
>> > sliced bread.
>> >
>> > But, not all of us share your opinion of systemd.  For those of us who
>> > do not like it, our reasons may vary, and you may disagree with those
>> > reasons, but the fact is we do not like it one bit and do not ever want
>> > it on our systems.
>> >
>> > Therefore, for those of us who do not like systemd, then having no
>> > systemd is indeed a huge benefit.
>
>> Yes, and systemd is completely irrelevant to working on a kernel
>> scheduling algorithm.
>
> True.
>
>> Which is my point.
>
> Fine, but that was not at all clear (in fact, it was completely
> missing) from what otherwise looked like a below-the-belt systemd
> insult.

Not at all.

I'm reading this as someone that has a difficult task in front of them.
I've never looked at the scheduler, but I know it's gotten a LOT of
attention.  To make any kind of significant change that accomplishes
something is going to be tough.

Just the measurement sounds hard.

I thought he should pick the best tools for the job.
That's why I questioned the 0.9 product he chose.
He came back with:

 "runs on openrc rather than systemd".

That seemed totally irrelevant and illogical.

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14179

Fromruben safir <dont@email.me>
Date2015-03-21 05:03 +0000
Message-ID<meiu3h$il$4@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#14178
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 21:10:25 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> I thought he should pick the best tools for the job.
> That's why I questioned the 0.9 product he chose. He came back with:
> 
>  "runs on openrc rather than systemd".
> 
> That seemed totally irrelevant and illogical.

because youy have never compiled your own kernel..



-- 
The Coin Hangout: http://www.coinhangout.com/home

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14172

Fromruben safir <dont@email.me>
Date2015-03-20 18:42 +0000
Message-ID<mehpmk$aj0$2@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#14166
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 10:58:43 +0000, Rich wrote:


> Therefore, for those of us who do not like systemd, then having no
> systemd is indeed a huge benefit.

systemd is not the operating system I want to use.  This guy doesn't know 
how to compile a kernel withouth OS specific tools so what does his 
opinion of system even matter.

Ruben



-- 
The Coin Hangout: http://www.coinhangout.com/home

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14174

FromDan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
Date2015-03-20 15:31 -0400
Message-ID<mehshg$lhv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14172
ruben safir <dont@email.me> writes:

> On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 10:58:43 +0000, Rich wrote:
>
>
>> Therefore, for those of us who do not like systemd, then having no
>> systemd is indeed a huge benefit.
>
> systemd is not the operating system I want to use.  This guy doesn't know 
> how to compile a kernel withouth OS specific tools so what does his 
> opinion of system even matter.

I think I've had enough of you.

You don't know what I know or don't know.
I thought you would find more help and less problems sticking with
mainstream stuff, but you know better.

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14180

Fromruben safir <dont@email.me>
Date2015-03-21 05:13 +0000
Message-ID<meiul2$il$5@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#14174
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 15:31:45 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> I thought you would find more help and less problems sticking with
> mainstream stuff, but you know better.

I am, but you just don't know it.  You flew into this without knowing 
what you were talking about.  You asked a completely irrelevent question, 
which got a completely irrelevent answer, of course.and now are 
complaining about it.

I'd spend the time trying to explainthis too you, but I don't think you 
would understnad it anyway.  But to spell it out in plain language, what 
I'm asking about and doing has NOTHING to do with distro that is being 
used.  The best thing the distro can do in this case is stay out of the 
damn way so that I can play with the Kernel source code and compile it.

As to the next question you would have, which is why I would want to do 
it, the answer would be because I CHOSE TO.  Really, learning about 
Kernel compilation and coding is not a criminal matter and is a NORMAL 
endevour for GNU/Linux users.

So I am not looking to lern how to use a distrodution's customs hacked 
kernel.  I'm trying to learn to use a standard source code kernel.

like we used to in the old days before Debian and Umbuntu was 
around...especially the later.

Ruben



-- 
The Coin Hangout: http://www.coinhangout.com/home

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14184

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2015-03-21 09:13 +0000
Message-ID<mejcns$4j1$2@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#14180
On 21/03/15 05:13, ruben safir wrote:
> Really, learning about
> Kernel compilation and coding is not a criminal matter and is a NORMAL
> endevour for GNU/Linux users.

No it isn't. Not for USERS. It might be for hobbyists administrators and 
geeks, but most people just want a desktop that works.


-- 
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the 
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14185

Fromruben <nowhere@nowhere.nor>
Date2015-03-21 14:40 +0000
Message-ID<mejvsk$8tn$1@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#14184
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 09:13:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 21/03/15 05:13, ruben safir wrote:
>> Really, learning about Kernel compilation and coding is not a criminal
>> matter and is a NORMAL endevour for GNU/Linux users.
> 
> No it isn't. Not for USERS. It might be for hobbyists administrators and
> geeks, but most people just want a desktop that works.
> 
>

you don't speak for most people.  You don't even speak of some of the 
people.  And what you wrote is disgusting, marketing dribble that didn't 
address the point.  Keep reading this until you actually understand it.  
This is not a Microsoft forum.  THIS is Free Software and we treat users 
with respect.

Learning about Kernel compilation and coding is not a criminal
matter and is a NORMAL endevour for GNU/Linux users.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14187

FromMichael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
Date2015-03-21 12:20 -0400
Message-ID<alpine.LNX.2.02.1503211210240.27870@darkstar.example.org>
In reply to#14185
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015, ruben wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 09:13:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 21/03/15 05:13, ruben safir wrote:
>>> Really, learning about Kernel compilation and coding is not a criminal
>>> matter and is a NORMAL endevour for GNU/Linux users.
>>
>> No it isn't. Not for USERS. It might be for hobbyists administrators and
>> geeks, but most people just want a desktop that works.
>>
>>
>
> you don't speak for most people.  You don't even speak of some of the
> people.  And what you wrote is disgusting, marketing dribble that didn't
> address the point.  Keep reading this until you actually understand it.
> This is not a Microsoft forum.  THIS is Free Software and we treat users
> with respect.
>
But look at you (I'm assuming you are the original poster now under a 
differnet name), you ask about the kernel, but then go off about grub2.
It's still not clear where your problem lies, the two are distinct.  You 
should be playing with multiple kernals that are already compiled, like 
from your distribution, then play with grub2 to make a multiple boot 
system.  Once you get that figured out, you can go on and compile kernels.

In the old days, it was almost mandatory to compile the kernel for a new 
system.  You needed to have the right drivers for the hardware you had, 
and maybe more important, you didn't want a bloated kernel.  Now, it's 
mostly all included, and the "average" computer has so much RAM and 
hardware space that a large kernel doesn't matter.

So at this point, anyone wanting to compile a kernel is doing it for some 
specific need, maybe the challenge, maybe they have some obscure hardware, 
maybe they are just interested in making it smaller.  But most people can 
live with the bloated kernel that comes with any distribution.

Even when compiling a kernel, most people are just customizing.  They 
aren't writing new bits to the kernel, or modifying the code, they are 
simply telling the compiler to produce a selective version of the overall 
kernel.

If you know nothing of initrd, then you need to read up on it.  It 
provides some things during the boot process.  Modules are a different 
thing, it allows one to adjust hardware without having it all tossed into 
the kernel.

And one thing to watch is that some distributions apparently fiddle with 
the kernel, so if you don't use their source, you end up with a 
non-working system.  While other distributions, like slackware, use the 
off the shelf kernel, so one can pull from kernel.org (with the warning 
someone pointed out, you can't mix and match a kernel with the libraries, 
there is a level of interaction).

But I see no indication that you are ready to be compiling a kernel.

Get grub2 going.  You can even do that with the same kernel, duplicate it 
and then get grub2 to select between the two kernels, you'll see no 
difference but if you are doing it right, the system will boot with 
either.

And dont' expect hand holding on the part of the distribution.  Compiling 
kernels is now esoteric, so you won't find a utility that compiles and 
sets up grub2 all in one operation.  You need to learn first.

> Learning about Kernel compilation and coding is not a criminal
> matter and is a NORMAL endevour for GNU/Linux users.
>
No, but it involves learning and trying things, and actually doing work.

   Michael

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14194

Fromruben safir <dont@email.me>
Date2015-03-21 19:54 +0000
Message-ID<mekia1$evu$10@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#14187
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:20:34 -0400, Michael Black wrote:

> So at this point, anyone wanting to compile a kernel is doing it for
> some specific need, maybe the challenge, maybe they have some obscure
> hardware,
> maybe they are just interested in making it smaller.  But most people
> can live with the bloated kernel that comes with any distribution.

I have news for you.  It was no easier or harder back in the late 
nineties to load an OS than it is today.  And when you go to the shelf 
today and grab COTS hardware, it is HARDER, not easier to get it to work 
because so much of the system is now obsfucated from the user and the 
dependency of binary blobs has skyrocketed, and standards have been 
abandoned.

If you don't want to learn to use your kernel, to compile it, to 
understand how it fits in with the rest of your system, it is no sweat 
off my brow.  Just don't get uppity when I want to actually learn how 
these things fit together, like a normal person who depends on these 
systems for real work would want to.

As for the observation about grub2 and kernel compilation question, 
OBVIOUSLY the two are directly related which is why LILo was run from the 
make files at one time.

grub and grub2 sucks.  It adds complications without reason and wastes 
time that can be better prent doing work.

Ruben



-- 
The Coin Hangout: http://www.coinhangout.com/home

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14201

FromBaho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com>
Date2015-03-21 17:56 -0400
Message-ID<3161ub-dak2.ln1@raspberry-pi.bildanet.com>
In reply to#14194
On 03/21/15 15:54, ruben safir wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:20:34 -0400, Michael Black wrote:
>
>> So at this point, anyone wanting to compile a kernel is doing it for
>> some specific need, maybe the challenge, maybe they have some obscure
>> hardware,
>> maybe they are just interested in making it smaller.  But most people
>> can live with the bloated kernel that comes with any distribution.
>
> I have news for you.  It was no easier or harder back in the late
> nineties to load an OS than it is today.  And when you go to the shelf
> today and grab COTS hardware, it is HARDER, not easier to get it to work
> because so much of the system is now obsfucated from the user and the
> dependency of binary blobs has skyrocketed, and standards have been
> abandoned.
>
> If you don't want to learn to use your kernel, to compile it, to
> understand how it fits in with the rest of your system, it is no sweat
> off my brow.  Just don't get uppity when I want to actually learn how
> these things fit together, like a normal person who depends on these
> systems for real work would want to.
>
> As for the observation about grub2 and kernel compilation question,
> OBVIOUSLY the two are directly related which is why LILo was run from the
> make files at one time.
>
> grub and grub2 sucks.  It adds complications without reason and wastes
> time that can be better prent doing work.
>
> Ruben
>
>
>

Or just move to FreeBSD... the sane way to do things

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14195

Fromruben safir <dont@email.me>
Date2015-03-21 19:56 +0000
Message-ID<mekidv$evu$11@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#14187
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:20:34 -0400, Michael Black wrote:


> But I see no indication that you are ready to be compiling a kernel.

so then don't answer.



-- 
The Coin Hangout: http://www.coinhangout.com/home

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 2 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.os.linux.misc


csiph-web