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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 336 — 25 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:15 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:36 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 14:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:16 -0700
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-16 08:41 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:27 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 21:55 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 23:43 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:31 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:56 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:09 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:58 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 13:33 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:08 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:52 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:58 +0200
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Page 7 of 17 — ← Prev page 1 … 5 6 [7] 8 9 … 17 Next page →
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 21:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <42bBS.51202$fY7.6892@fx20.iad> |
| In reply to | #94238 |
On 2026-10-18, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote: > Le 18-10-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a écrit : > >> Long ago (~1985) I rewrote a commercial antivirus (it checked boot >> sector and command.com, I think) in TurboPascal. >> >> It was slower than the original, but my code did a few things more. >> >> Then I rewrote the comparison of arrays in assembler, using basically a >> single instruction (compare string of up to 64 KB). >> >> The result was 10 times faster than the original. > > The best anti-virus ever: "format C:". Fast and perfect. Doesn't run on > Linux but it's not important as it needs only to run on Windows. Well, there's always mkfs - and not only can it get rid of Windows viruses, it can get rid of Windows itself. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 16:21 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b5cgt$25961$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94251 |
On 2026-10-18, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-10-18, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote: > >> Le 18-10-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a écrit : >> >>> Long ago (~1985) I rewrote a commercial antivirus (it checked boot >>> sector and command.com, I think) in TurboPascal. >>> >>> It was slower than the original, but my code did a few things more. >>> >>> Then I rewrote the comparison of arrays in assembler, using basically a >>> single instruction (compare string of up to 64 KB). >>> >>> The result was 10 times faster than the original. >> >> The best anti-virus ever: "format C:". Fast and perfect. Doesn't run on >> Linux but it's not important as it needs only to run on Windows. > > Well, there's always mkfs - and not only can it get rid of > Windows viruses, it can get rid of Windows itself. And there's this POSIX utility that can be used to review GenAI-generated codebases, which was previously known for its application of reading mail, really fast... -- Nuno Silva
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 22:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <48biqmx0oq.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94251 |
On 2026-10-18 23:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-10-18, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote: > >> Le 18-10-2026, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a écrit : >> >>> Long ago (~1985) I rewrote a commercial antivirus (it checked boot >>> sector and command.com, I think) in TurboPascal. >>> >>> It was slower than the original, but my code did a few things more. >>> >>> Then I rewrote the comparison of arrays in assembler, using basically a >>> single instruction (compare string of up to 64 KB). >>> >>> The result was 10 times faster than the original. >> >> The best anti-virus ever: "format C:". Fast and perfect. Doesn't run on >> Linux but it's not important as it needs only to run on Windows. > > Well, there's always mkfs - and not only can it get rid of > Windows viruses, it can get rid of Windows itself. > At that time, Linux did not exist, and Unix was unobtainum. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 13:13 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20261016131327.00002892@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #93809 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 07:45:44 -0000 (UTC) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > > I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted is > > basic CS. > > Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might > think is even more basic CS. > > After all, where does “hardware” end and “software” begin? On which > side of the line do you place things like “firmware” (note the name) > and “microcode”? The “P” in “PLA” stands for “programmable”; does > that mean the gate connections are still “hardware”, or not? That's an inane thing to say when we're talking about software from the CPU's perspective. "Firmware" is software; the fact that it's stored in non-volatile memory doesn't change that. PLAs being programmable in their own right has no bearing on their use in implementing what is, to the CPU, definitely *not* software. The only term that actually blurs the lines here is microcode; this can indeed be seen as another layer for programmatically directing the operations of hardware, even if it's only used to implement the machine's official instruction set. But then not all CPUs are actually microcoded in the first place. And all of this has precious little to do with the difference between compiled and interpreted languages from an application/OS perspective. Whether a CPU is microcoded or not makes no difference to the fact that its native instruction set is the most elemental group of *available* operations for software running on it. Compiled languages by definition translate their own fundamental language operations into sequences of native instructions (ideally with a compiler that optimizes them at compile time.) Interpreted languages, by the classical definition, do not, and the overhead of running the interpreter along with the actual program causes performance penalties which may be anything from moderate to severe. There are also other strategies - compiling to "pseudocode" operations targeting a virtual-machine architecture that's lower-level than the source language (which has a lower overhead than classical interpreters and is useful for portability) or just-in-time compilation (which is more performant than a pure interpreter, but has a higher memory over- head) - and all of these have their own upsides and downsides. Claiming that the distinction is of minimal significance is, frankly, absurd.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 22:27 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11au4sj$3k12p$18@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93919 |
On 16/10/2026 21:13, John Ames wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 07:45:44 -0000 (UTC) > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >>> I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted is >>> basic CS. >> >> Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might >> think is even more basic CS. >> >> After all, where does “hardware” end and “software” begin? On which >> side of the line do you place things like “firmware” (note the name) >> and “microcode”? The “P” in “PLA” stands for “programmable”; does >> that mean the gate connections are still “hardware”, or not? > > That's an inane thing to say when we're talking about software from the > CPU's perspective. "Firmware" is software; the fact that it's stored in > non-volatile memory doesn't change that. PLAs being programmable in > their own right has no bearing on their use in implementing what is, to > the CPU, definitely *not* software. The only term that actually blurs > the lines here is microcode; this can indeed be seen as another layer > for programmatically directing the operations of hardware, even if it's > only used to implement the machine's official instruction set. But then > not all CPUs are actually microcoded in the first place. > Every single *86 processor is. Traditional simpler ARM cores use hardwired control logic, while modern high-performance ARM cores (like Apple Silicon and Cortex-X) use internal micro-operation (µop) translation layers > And all of this has precious little to do with the difference between > compiled and interpreted languages from an application/OS perspective. Well anyone can change the question to make their answer fit > Whether a CPU is microcoded or not makes no difference to the fact that > its native instruction set is the most elemental group of *available* > operations for software running on it. > Not if its microcode is held off chip or can be flashed onto NVram in the chip Intel microcode is reprogrammable. While the base microcode is permanently baked into the processor's Read-Only Memory (ROM) during manufacturing, Intel CPUs feature a mechanism that allows this code to be patched or overwritten dynamically. > Compiled languages by definition translate their own fundamental > language operations into sequences of native instructions (ideally with > a compiler that optimizes them at compile time.) Interpreted languages, > by the classical definition, do not, and the overhead of running the > interpreter along with the actual program causes performance penalties > which may be anything from moderate to severe. > Golly. whoda thunk it? > There are also other strategies - compiling to "pseudocode" operations > targeting a virtual-machine architecture that's lower-level than the > source language (which has a lower overhead than classical interpreters > and is useful for portability) or just-in-time compilation (which is > more performant than a pure interpreter, but has a higher memory over- > head) - and all of these have their own upsides and downsides. Claiming > that the distinction is of minimal significance is, frankly, absurd. > I cant work out who you think this might be news to. -- "Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold." ― Confucius
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 14:50 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20261016145021.00005f03@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #93928 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 22:27:47 +0100 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > I cant work out who you think this might be news to. You probably could if you noted whom that reply was directed at.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 04:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njgb2lFit4rU36@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #93919 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 13:13:27 -0700, John Ames wrote: > The only term that actually blurs the lines here is microcode; this can > indeed be seen as another layer for programmatically directing the > operations of hardware, even if it's only used to implement the > machine's official instruction set. But then not all CPUs are actually > microcoded in the first place. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PALM_processor IBM had a strange idea of what a microprocessor was. The System/23 was the successor to the 5100 series and used an Intel 8085 and other Intel MPUs. I found it odd that the IBM PC was a 5150. It had nothing to do with the 5100 - 5120 machines.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 04:41 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <m-Sdnd5rWbe-fkz3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #93804 |
On 10/16/26 02:16, Peyton wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes: > >> On 10/16/26 00:53, Peyton wrote: >>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes: >>> >>>> On 10/15/26 23:26, Leroy H wrote: >>>>> It is amazing how knowledge of basic CS is absent in most >>>>> programmers, both professional and amateur alike. While >>>>> "vibe coding" is all the rage, a silent disaster is also >>>>> creeping. >>>> >>>> 99+ percent of us got by just fine without >>>> any "computer science" crapola. >>>> >>>> CS is all math/stats. Has almost nothing to >>>> do with the real-world these days. Maybe in >>>> the 1940s ....... >>>> >>>> Might, MAYBE, produce a useful idea, every, >>>> very, once in awhile. >>>> >>> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C# >>> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python >>> script. >> >> Worrisome. >> >> However do note that MOST of the Python functions >> are writ in 'C'. >> > >>> Not having basic CS fundamentals does have real implications in >>> everyday software. >> >> Not so much. >> > When you don't know the basics you'll make some bone headed > decisions that'll impact efficiency and/or correctness. You are confusing 'CS' with simple, theory-free, knowledge about programming. You can't really get that from a book.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 11:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11assj3$33n8m$21@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93815 |
On 16/10/2026 09:41, c186282 wrote: > You are confusing 'CS' with simple, theory-free, > knowledge about programming. You can't really get > that from a book. You can. Its just not a CS book Years later after having been a programmer and running a tech company I happened to drift into a technical bookshop in search of something specific to do with Sys5 unix as implemented by Sun (solaris?) I skimmed through a book on 'software engineering' Almost everything I had learnt the hard way was in that damned book,. About 15 years too late... -- "Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, community, compassion, investment, security, housing...." "What kind of person is not interested in those things?" "Jeremy Corbyn?"
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 09:57 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11asosu$33n8m$9@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93804 |
On 16/10/2026 07:16, Peyton wrote: > I agree. That is the very issue. I'd argue knowing the difference between > compiled and interpreted is basic CS. Only if by CS you mean 'common sense' I certainly do not think that is what a CS course is all about. It is probably fundamental to software engineering though. -- Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 09:26 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11asn32$33n8m$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93801 |
On 16/10/2026 06:31, c186282 wrote: > Yer guy didn't need a CS degree - just someone > to TELL him the diff between compiled and > interpreted. That's all. Precisely. Just count the cycles Ive told this story before, so apologies, The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial proportions. I stopped them : "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it" "Don't worry, it can" "How do you know" "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you weren't looking" In nearly all my time as an engineer, you only uses the theory to design something that's never been designed before. In all other cases it's quicker and more fool proof to simply knock up a prototype and test it. And that can be done by far less expensive people than a theoretician -- WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.
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| From | Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 09:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11asri6$31lan$10@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93813 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck > using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial > proportions. I stopped them : > "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it" > "Don't worry, it can" > "How do you know" > "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you > weren't looking" Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in order to derive an upper bound! :o)
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 10:56 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11assbv$33n8m$20@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93833 |
On 16/10/2026 10:42, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > > >> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck >> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial >> proportions. I stopped them : >> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it" >> "Don't worry, it can" >> "How do you know" >> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you >> weren't looking" > > Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in order > to derive an upper bound! :o) Typical CS remark :-) No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck. The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper engineer of the old school sort. -- "Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold." ― Confucius
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| From | Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 11:14 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11at0uk$31lan$15@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93839 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 10:56:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in
>> order to derive an upper bound! :o)
>
> Typical CS remark
>
> No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck.
>
> The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper
> engineer of the old school sort.
Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 13:07 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11at41q$33n8m$38@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93849 |
On 16/10/2026 12:14, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 10:56:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>
>>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in
>>> order to derive an upper bound! :o)
>>
>> Typical CS remark
>>
>> No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck.
>>
>> The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper
>> engineer of the old school sort.
>
> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
There is very little difference. Only in degree.
That why the English are the best engineers in the world. They can work
a slide rule AND a torque wrench
There is a lot of theory to being a diesel fitter. As well as knowing
how to undo a rusty bolt
They are not just 'technicians'
--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.
Adolf Hitler
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| From | Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 12:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11at4q0$31lan$19@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93856 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 13:07:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
>> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
>> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
>
> There is very little difference. Only in degree.
> That why the English are the best engineers in the world.
Not to mention the best cuisine.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 15:26 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11atc6j$3bqcl$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93859 |
On 16/10/2026 13:20, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 13:07:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
>>> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
>>> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
>>
>> There is very little difference. Only in degree.
>> That why the English are the best engineers in the world.
>
> Not to mention the best cuisine.
I am not claiming that,. While its streets ahead of American, Eastern
European or Nordic, I think one has to hand it to the southern nations.
Italy, Greece, Thailand - for some of the best food that concentrates on
flavour and variety rather than the pure calories of the higher latitudes.
--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors."
- George Orwell
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 19:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njfcdkFit4rU25@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #93856 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 13:07:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > There is very little difference. Only in degree. > That why the English are the best engineers in the world. They can work > a slide rule AND a torque wrench Even back in the '60s there were a number of Indian students. If you got one as a lab partner you let them run the slide rule but never let them touch a screwdriver. Typically they were upper middle class, very intelligent, but they'd never taken stuff apart and put it back together like most US kids who wound up in an engineering school.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 22:21 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11au4hl$3k12p$17@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93915 |
On 16/10/2026 20:32, rbowman wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 13:07:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> There is very little difference. Only in degree. >> That why the English are the best engineers in the world. They can work >> a slide rule AND a torque wrench > > Even back in the '60s there were a number of Indian students. If you got > one as a lab partner you let them run the slide rule but never let them > touch a screwdriver. Typically they were upper middle class, very > intelligent, but they'd never taken stuff apart and put it back together > like most US kids who wound up in an engineering school. > Yes. I know that type. They are natural software people as you don't get your hands dirty. Don't get me started on the middle easterners though... -- "Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold." ― Confucius
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 04:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njgaf5Fit4rU35@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #93927 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 22:21:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 16/10/2026 20:32, rbowman wrote: >> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 13:07:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>> There is very little difference. Only in degree. >>> That why the English are the best engineers in the world. They can >>> work a slide rule AND a torque wrench >> >> Even back in the '60s there were a number of Indian students. If you >> got one as a lab partner you let them run the slide rule but never let >> them touch a screwdriver. Typically they were upper middle class, very >> intelligent, but they'd never taken stuff apart and put it back >> together like most US kids who wound up in an engineering school. >> > Yes. I know that type. They are natural software people as you don't get > your hands dirty. > Don't get me started on the middle easterners though... I've not had any exposure to them other than the people on the food trucks. We did bid on a Saudi contract. When they did the site visit I had to take down my flying pig mobile lest it offend them. Even better it was a take off on Harley 'hogs' so the pig had a leather jacket and motorcycle goggles. Back when I was working with FORTH there were some contracts available at the King Fucknut airport in Riyadh. Hard pass. There isn't enough money.
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