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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread

Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI

Started byLeroy H <lh@somewhere.net>
First post2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Last post2026-10-18 10:59 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 271 — 23 participants

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Contents

  Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 14:19 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:38 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:10 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:58 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:04 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 15:33 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:23 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:37 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:11 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:53 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:00 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:12 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:26 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:35 +0200
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:04 +0000
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:24 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:50 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:19 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 09:39 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:43 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:19 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:20 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-17 06:37 -0400
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:59 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:20 +0200
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:50 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:48 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:15 +0200
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:36 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 14:57 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:16 -0700
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:45 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-16 08:41 -0700
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:27 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 21:55 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 23:43 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:31 +0200
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:00 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:56 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:09 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:58 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 13:33 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:08 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:11 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:52 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:58 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 20:07 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:41 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 13:13 -0700
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:27 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:50 -0700
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:15 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:41 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:00 +0100
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:57 +0100
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:26 +0100
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:42 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:56 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:14 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:07 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:20 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:26 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:32 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:21 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:04 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:24 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:27 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:20 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 01:13 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:32 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 03:04 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:41 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 12:45 +0200
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:24 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:16 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:53 +0200
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 06:02 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:26 -0700
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 06:42 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:41 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 06:39 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:22 -0400
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:54 +0100
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:19 +0100
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:40 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:52 +0100
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:47 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-17 23:29 +0200
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 05:29 +0000
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:07 +0100
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:28 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:26 +0100
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                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:40 +0100
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                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:39 +0100
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      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:16 +0100
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:51 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:04 +0100
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                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-17 01:55 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-17 01:07 -0400
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:28 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:35 +0000
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    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 11:44 -0400
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:14 +0000
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          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 17:56 +0000
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              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 18:32 +0000
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                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:19 +0000
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      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:58 +0000
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:25 +0100
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "De ongekruisigde ds." <ongekruisigde-ds@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000

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#93821

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 09:57 +0100
Message-ID<11asosu$33n8m$9@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93804
On 16/10/2026 07:16, Peyton wrote:
> I agree. That is the very issue. I'd argue knowing the difference between
> compiled and interpreted is basic CS.

Only if by CS you mean 'common sense'

I certainly do not think that is what a CS course is all about.

It is probably fundamental to software engineering though.


-- 
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

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#93813

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 09:26 +0100
Message-ID<11asn32$33n8m$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93801
On 16/10/2026 06:31, c186282 wrote:
> Yer guy didn't need a CS degree - just someone
>    to TELL him the diff between compiled and
>    interpreted. That's all.

Precisely. Just count the cycles
Ive told this story before, so apologies,

The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck 
using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial 
proportions. I stopped them :
"We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
"Don't worry, it can"
"How do you know"
"Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you 
weren't looking"

In nearly all my time as an engineer, you only uses the theory to design 
something that's never been designed before.

In all other cases it's quicker and more fool proof to simply knock up a 
prototype and test it.

And that can be done by far less expensive people than a theoretician


-- 
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

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#93833

FromTapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-16 09:42 +0000
Message-ID<11asri6$31lan$10@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93813
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck
> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial
> proportions. I stopped them :
> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
> "Don't worry, it can"
> "How do you know"
> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
> weren't looking"

Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in order 
to derive an upper bound! :o) 

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#93839

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 10:56 +0100
Message-ID<11assbv$33n8m$20@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93833
On 16/10/2026 10:42, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
> 
>> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck
>> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial
>> proportions. I stopped them :
>> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
>> "Don't worry, it can"
>> "How do you know"
>> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
>> weren't looking"
> 
> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in order
> to derive an upper bound! :o)

Typical CS remark :-)

No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck.

The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper 
engineer of the old school sort.


-- 
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

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#93849

FromTapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-16 11:14 +0000
Message-ID<11at0uk$31lan$15@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93839
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 10:56:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in
>> order to derive an upper bound! :o)
> 
> Typical CS remark
> 
> No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck.
> 
> The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper
> engineer of the old school sort.

Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that 
English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a 
slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.

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#93856

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 13:07 +0100
Message-ID<11at41q$33n8m$38@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93849
On 16/10/2026 12:14, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 10:56:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
> 
>>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in
>>> order to derive an upper bound! :o)
>>
>> Typical CS remark
>>
>> No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck.
>>
>> The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper
>> engineer of the old school sort.
> 
> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.

There is very little difference. Only in degree.
That why the English are the best engineers in the world. They can work 
a slide rule AND a torque wrench

There is a lot of theory to being a diesel fitter. As well as knowing 
how to undo a rusty bolt

They are not just 'technicians'



-- 
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

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#93859

FromTapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-16 12:20 +0000
Message-ID<11at4q0$31lan$19@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93856
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 13:07:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
>> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
>> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
> 
> There is very little difference. Only in degree.
> That why the English are the best engineers in the world.

Not to mention the best cuisine.

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#93870

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 15:26 +0100
Message-ID<11atc6j$3bqcl$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93859
On 16/10/2026 13:20, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 13:07:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
>>> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
>>> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
>>
>> There is very little difference. Only in degree.
>> That why the English are the best engineers in the world.
> 
> Not to mention the best cuisine.

I am not claiming that,. While its streets ahead of American, Eastern 
European or Nordic, I think one has to hand it to the southern nations. 
Italy, Greece, Thailand - for some of the best food that concentrates on 
flavour and variety rather than the pure calories of  the higher latitudes.



-- 
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your 
oppressors."
      - George Orwell

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#93915

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-16 19:32 +0000
Message-ID<njfcdkFit4rU25@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#93856
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 13:07:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> There is very little difference. Only in degree.
> That why the English are the best engineers in the world. They can work
> a slide rule AND a torque wrench

Even back in the '60s there were a number of Indian students. If you got 
one as a lab partner you let them run the slide rule but never let them 
touch a screwdriver.  Typically they were upper middle class, very 
intelligent, but they'd never taken stuff apart and put it back together 
like most US kids who wound up in an engineering school.

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#93927

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 22:21 +0100
Message-ID<11au4hl$3k12p$17@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93915
On 16/10/2026 20:32, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 13:07:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> There is very little difference. Only in degree.
>> That why the English are the best engineers in the world. They can work
>> a slide rule AND a torque wrench
> 
> Even back in the '60s there were a number of Indian students. If you got
> one as a lab partner you let them run the slide rule but never let them
> touch a screwdriver.  Typically they were upper middle class, very
> intelligent, but they'd never taken stuff apart and put it back together
> like most US kids who wound up in an engineering school.
> 
Yes. I know that type. They are natural software people as you don't get 
your hands dirty.
Don't get me started on the middle easterners though...


-- 
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

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#93967

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-17 04:04 +0000
Message-ID<njgaf5Fit4rU35@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#93927
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 22:21:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 16/10/2026 20:32, rbowman wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 13:07:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>>> There is very little difference. Only in degree.
>>> That why the English are the best engineers in the world. They can
>>> work a slide rule AND a torque wrench
>> 
>> Even back in the '60s there were a number of Indian students. If you
>> got one as a lab partner you let them run the slide rule but never let
>> them touch a screwdriver.  Typically they were upper middle class, very
>> intelligent, but they'd never taken stuff apart and put it back
>> together like most US kids who wound up in an engineering school.
>> 
> Yes. I know that type. They are natural software people as you don't get
> your hands dirty.
> Don't get me started on the middle easterners though...

I've not had any exposure to them other than the people on the food 
trucks. We did bid on a Saudi contract. When they did the site visit I had 
to take down my flying pig mobile lest it offend them. Even better it was 
a take off on Harley 'hogs' so the pig had a leather jacket and motorcycle 
goggles.

Back when I was working with FORTH there were some contracts available at 
the King Fucknut airport in Riyadh. Hard pass. There isn't enough money.

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#93978

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-17 09:24 +0100
Message-ID<11avbcf$59n$9@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93967
On 17/10/2026 05:04, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 22:21:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Don't get me started on the middle easterners though...
> 
> I've not had any exposure to them other than the people on the food
> trucks. We did bid on a Saudi contract. When they did the site visit I had
> to take down my flying pig mobile lest it offend them. Even better it was
> a take off on Harley 'hogs' so the pig had a leather jacket and motorcycle
> goggles.
> 
We were selling radar and weapons systems to them back in the 1960s.
The intelligent ones expected someone one else to do the hands on work, 
and the less intelligent ones were all for putting their trust is kismet 
rather than the instruction manual.

'point ion general direction and spray ten clips, and Allah will select 
the targets' is sometimes a good strategy, just not very often

> Back when I was working with FORTH there were some contracts available at
> the King Fucknut airport in Riyadh. Hard pass. There isn't enough money.
> 
Yeah. here in the horse racing capital of the world, we have some mighty 
fine gold plated residences. And immaculate pastures and stables

But you seldom see any of them, Very private


-- 
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in 
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in 
someone else's pocket.

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#93913

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-16 19:27 +0000
Message-ID<njfc4qFit4rU24@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#93849
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 10:56:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
> 
>>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in
>>> order to derive an upper bound! :o)
>> 
>> Typical CS remark
>> 
>> No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck.
>> 
>> The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper
>> engineer of the old school sort.
> 
> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.

No, an engineer is the guy who drives the train.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfCthmyq-Ig

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#93926

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 22:20 +0100
Message-ID<11au4en$3k12p$16@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93913
On 16/10/2026 20:27, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 10:56:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in
>>>> order to derive an upper bound! :o)
>>>
>>> Typical CS remark
>>>
>>> No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck.
>>>
>>> The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper
>>> engineer of the old school sort.
>>
>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
>> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
>> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
> 
> No, an engineer is the guy who drives the train.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfCthmyq-Ig
> 
Etymology of "Engineer"

     Latin Root (ingenium): Derived from the Latin word ingenium, 
meaning innate quality, natural talent, or clever invention (literally 
"that which is inborn").
     Old French (engigneor): Evolved into Old French as engigneor or 
engignier, originally denoting a builder of military siege engines (like 
catapults and trebuchets) as well as a schemer or trickster.
     Middle English (enginour): Appeared in the mid-14th century as 
enginour, meaning a constructor of military engines.
     Semantic Broadening: By the 15th century, it shifted to mean a 
general designer or inventor. By the 17th–19th centuries during the 
Industrial Revolution, it expanded from military machinery to civil 
public works (bridges, roads, canals) and mechanical systems

Nowhere is it the guy who drives a train. Except  in third world nations 
who cant spik Inglish ;-)

Only in some strange lexical world is it someone who uses 'applied 
science' to do anything.

Since engineers predate scientists




-- 
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

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#93952

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-17 01:13 +0100
Message-ID<11auej2$3nk2l$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93913
On 2026-10-16, rbowman wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 10:56:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in
>>>> order to derive an upper bound! :o)
>>> 
>>> Typical CS remark
>>> 
>>> No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck.
>>> 
>>> The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper
>>> engineer of the old school sort.
>> 
>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
>> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
>> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
>
> No, an engineer is the guy who drives the train.

This. And also a person who is controlling a bunch of the flight systems
in some aircraft models, like the right side of this photo:

<http://www.saveconcordegroup.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/G-BOAC1.jpg>

>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfCthmyq-Ig
>

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#93958

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-17 02:32 +0000
Message-ID<11aumns$3r5cq$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93849
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:

> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact
> that English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works
> with a slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.

The original meaning of “engine” referred to any kind of device or
contraption. The slide rule itself was a calculation engine.

If it helps, the word has the same root as “ingenuity”.

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#94056

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
Message-ID<ccPAS.187044$iS_f.90305@fx06.iad>
In reply to#93958
On 2026-10-17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
>
>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact
>> that English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works
>> with a slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
>
> The original meaning of “engine” referred to any kind of device or
> contraption. The slide rule itself was a calculation engine.

And now we have search engines...

> If it helps, the word has the same root as “ingenuity”.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#94102

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-18 03:04 +0000
Message-ID<njirakFei39U23@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#94056
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:33:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-10-17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
>>
>>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact
>>> that English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works
>>> with a slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
>>
>> The original meaning of “engine” referred to any kind of device or
>> contraption. The slide rule itself was a calculation engine.
> 
> And now we have search engines...

And the V8 engine...  I read a couple of days ago that Dahl, the creator 
of Node.js, has moved on to a new scheme based on the Cloudflare model.

https://thenewstack.io/cloudflare-acquires-deno-ryan-dahl/

He said his attempt to fix node with deno failed because of the industry 
demand that it be compatible with node. Sometimes you can get away with 
breaking changes, sometimes not.

bun was another attempt but Anthropic bought it and appears to be making 
it a dispenser of Claude AI slop.  Think I'll stick with Node and Express.

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#94136

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-18 11:41 +0100
Message-ID<11b27p2$11pis$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94056
On 17/10/2026 19:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-10-17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
>>
>>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact
>>> that English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works
>>> with a slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
>>
>> The original meaning of “engine” referred to any kind of device or
>> contraption. The slide rule itself was a calculation engine.
> 
> And now we have search engines...
> 
>> If it helps, the word has the same root as “ingenuity”.
> 

Yes  to all that. It was originally the art of making mechanisms. 
Primarily for war.
US corrupted it to mean 'driver' or 'machine controller'
Europe corrupted it to mean 'man with a technical degree' - especially a 
second class SCIENTIST.

In the UK it's always been a man who makes stuff that hasn't been made 
before. Otherwise its a technician or a mechanic


-- 
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before 
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

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#94138

FromJohn Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com>
Date2026-10-18 12:45 +0200
Message-ID<11b27vf$124l8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94136
On 18/10/2026 12:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

[engineer]
> Europe corrupted it to mean 'man with a technical degree' - especially a 
> second class SCIENTIST.

At least in the Netherlands we (used to?) have ing, what you call a 
second class SCIENTIST, and ir which is a first class SCIENTISTS.

-- 
Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/

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