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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread

Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI

Started byLeroy H <lh@somewhere.net>
First post2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Last post2026-10-18 10:59 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 332 — 25 participants

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Contents

  Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 14:19 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:38 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:10 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:58 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:04 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 15:33 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:23 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:37 +0100
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:02 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:40 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:11 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:53 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:00 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:12 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:26 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:35 +0200
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:04 +0000
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:24 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:50 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:37 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:04 +0100
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:17 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-19 17:33 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:26 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:19 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 09:39 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:43 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:36 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:03 +0100
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:39 +0000
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:19 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:20 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:58 -0700
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 03:33 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-17 06:37 -0400
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:59 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:20 +0200
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:50 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:48 +0100
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 15:09 -0700
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 02:48 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:15 +0200
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:36 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:07 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 14:57 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:16 -0700
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:45 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-16 08:41 -0700
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:27 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 21:55 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 23:43 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:31 +0200
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:00 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:56 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:09 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:58 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 13:33 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:08 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:11 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 02:13 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-19 11:39 +0200
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:52 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:22 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-19 03:55 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:58 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 20:07 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:41 +0000
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:21 +0100
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-19 22:30 +0200
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 13:13 -0700
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:27 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:50 -0700
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:15 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:41 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:00 +0100
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:57 +0100
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            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:42 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:56 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:14 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:07 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:20 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:26 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:32 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:21 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:04 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:24 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:27 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:20 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 01:13 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:32 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 03:04 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:41 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 12:45 +0200
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:05 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:25 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 20:19 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:24 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:16 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:53 +0200
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 06:02 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:26 -0700
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 06:42 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:41 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 06:39 +0000
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          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:52 +0100
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#93913

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-16 19:27 +0000
Message-ID<njfc4qFit4rU24@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#93849
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 10:56:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
> 
>>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in
>>> order to derive an upper bound! :o)
>> 
>> Typical CS remark
>> 
>> No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck.
>> 
>> The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper
>> engineer of the old school sort.
> 
> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.

No, an engineer is the guy who drives the train.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfCthmyq-Ig

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#93926

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 22:20 +0100
Message-ID<11au4en$3k12p$16@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93913
On 16/10/2026 20:27, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 10:56:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in
>>>> order to derive an upper bound! :o)
>>>
>>> Typical CS remark
>>>
>>> No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck.
>>>
>>> The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper
>>> engineer of the old school sort.
>>
>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
>> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
>> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
> 
> No, an engineer is the guy who drives the train.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfCthmyq-Ig
> 
Etymology of "Engineer"

     Latin Root (ingenium): Derived from the Latin word ingenium, 
meaning innate quality, natural talent, or clever invention (literally 
"that which is inborn").
     Old French (engigneor): Evolved into Old French as engigneor or 
engignier, originally denoting a builder of military siege engines (like 
catapults and trebuchets) as well as a schemer or trickster.
     Middle English (enginour): Appeared in the mid-14th century as 
enginour, meaning a constructor of military engines.
     Semantic Broadening: By the 15th century, it shifted to mean a 
general designer or inventor. By the 17th–19th centuries during the 
Industrial Revolution, it expanded from military machinery to civil 
public works (bridges, roads, canals) and mechanical systems

Nowhere is it the guy who drives a train. Except  in third world nations 
who cant spik Inglish ;-)

Only in some strange lexical world is it someone who uses 'applied 
science' to do anything.

Since engineers predate scientists




-- 
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

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#93952

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-17 01:13 +0100
Message-ID<11auej2$3nk2l$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93913
On 2026-10-16, rbowman wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 10:56:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in
>>>> order to derive an upper bound! :o)
>>> 
>>> Typical CS remark
>>> 
>>> No, we safely pulled a motor out of a forklift truck.
>>> 
>>> The guy doing it was a great guy, Trained as a diesel fitter. Proper
>>> engineer of the old school sort.
>> 
>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact that
>> English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works with a
>> slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
>
> No, an engineer is the guy who drives the train.

This. And also a person who is controlling a bunch of the flight systems
in some aircraft models, like the right side of this photo:

<http://www.saveconcordegroup.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/G-BOAC1.jpg>

>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfCthmyq-Ig
>

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#93958

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-17 02:32 +0000
Message-ID<11aumns$3r5cq$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93849
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:

> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact
> that English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works
> with a slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.

The original meaning of “engine” referred to any kind of device or
contraption. The slide rule itself was a calculation engine.

If it helps, the word has the same root as “ingenuity”.

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#94056

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
Message-ID<ccPAS.187044$iS_f.90305@fx06.iad>
In reply to#93958
On 2026-10-17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
>
>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact
>> that English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works
>> with a slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
>
> The original meaning of “engine” referred to any kind of device or
> contraption. The slide rule itself was a calculation engine.

And now we have search engines...

> If it helps, the word has the same root as “ingenuity”.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#94102

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-18 03:04 +0000
Message-ID<njirakFei39U23@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#94056
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:33:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-10-17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
>>
>>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact
>>> that English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works
>>> with a slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
>>
>> The original meaning of “engine” referred to any kind of device or
>> contraption. The slide rule itself was a calculation engine.
> 
> And now we have search engines...

And the V8 engine...  I read a couple of days ago that Dahl, the creator 
of Node.js, has moved on to a new scheme based on the Cloudflare model.

https://thenewstack.io/cloudflare-acquires-deno-ryan-dahl/

He said his attempt to fix node with deno failed because of the industry 
demand that it be compatible with node. Sometimes you can get away with 
breaking changes, sometimes not.

bun was another attempt but Anthropic bought it and appears to be making 
it a dispenser of Claude AI slop.  Think I'll stick with Node and Express.

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#94136

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-18 11:41 +0100
Message-ID<11b27p2$11pis$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94056
On 17/10/2026 19:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-10-17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 11:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
>>
>>> Mh, this reminds me that I will never wrap my head around the fact
>>> that English uses the same word ("engineer") for a person who works
>>> with a slide rule and a pencil and a person who works with a wrench.
>>
>> The original meaning of “engine” referred to any kind of device or
>> contraption. The slide rule itself was a calculation engine.
> 
> And now we have search engines...
> 
>> If it helps, the word has the same root as “ingenuity”.
> 

Yes  to all that. It was originally the art of making mechanisms. 
Primarily for war.
US corrupted it to mean 'driver' or 'machine controller'
Europe corrupted it to mean 'man with a technical degree' - especially a 
second class SCIENTIST.

In the UK it's always been a man who makes stuff that hasn't been made 
before. Otherwise its a technician or a mechanic


-- 
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before 
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

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#94138

FromJohn Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com>
Date2026-10-18 12:45 +0200
Message-ID<11b27vf$124l8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94136
On 18/10/2026 12:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

[engineer]
> Europe corrupted it to mean 'man with a technical degree' - especially a 
> second class SCIENTIST.

At least in the Netherlands we (used to?) have ing, what you call a 
second class SCIENTIST, and ir which is a first class SCIENTISTS.

-- 
Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/

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#94335

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-19 16:05 +0100
Message-ID<11b5bk9$25961$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93833
On 2026-10-16, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>
>> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck
>> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial
>> proportions. I stopped them :
>> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
>> "Don't worry, it can"
>> "How do you know"
>> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
>> weren't looking"
>
> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in order 
> to derive an upper bound! :o) 

But that's not a known complexity one, the resilience of the beam still
wasn't calculated, and it's possible the bigger motor was beyond what
the beam could securely take, even if the smaller one isn't. The
structure may have been already weakened.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#94340

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-19 17:25 +0100
Message-ID<11b5ga8$270al$10@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94335
On 19/10/2026 16:05, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-10-16, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck
>>> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial
>>> proportions. I stopped them :
>>> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
>>> "Don't worry, it can"
>>> "How do you know"
>>> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
>>> weren't looking"
>>
>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in order
>> to derive an upper bound! :o)
> 
> But that's not a known complexity one, the resilience of the beam still
> wasn't calculated, and it's possible the bigger motor was beyond what
> the beam could securely take, even if the smaller one isn't. The
> structure may have been already weakened.
> 
I see you have never taken a car engine out using a wooden rafter beam

-- 
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

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#94358

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-19 20:19 +0000
Message-ID<njncb3Fei39U53@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#94340
On Mon, 19 Oct 2026 17:25:44 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 19/10/2026 16:05, Nuno Silva wrote:
>> On 2026-10-16, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift
>>>> truck using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather
>>>> insubstantial proportions. I stopped them :
>>>> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
>>>> "Don't worry, it can"
>>>> "How do you know"
>>>> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
>>>> weren't looking"
>>>
>>> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in
>>> order to derive an upper bound! :o)
>> 
>> But that's not a known complexity one, the resilience of the beam still
>> wasn't calculated, and it's possible the bigger motor was beyond what
>> the beam could securely take, even if the smaller one isn't. The
>> structure may have been already weakened.
>> 
> I see you have never taken a car engine out using a wooden rafter beam

How about a sturdy maple tree?  I have a proud history as a shade tree 
mechanic. I did leave a Plymouth engine hanging from a rafter in a 
friend's garage. He wasn't home and his mother was quite perplexed by the 
operation.

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#93912

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-16 19:24 +0000
Message-ID<njfc03Fit4rU23@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#93813
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck
> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial
> proportions. I stopped them :
> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
> "Don't worry, it can"
> "How do you know"
> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
> weren't looking"

The first company I worked for chose to assemble the larger machines on 
the 3rd floor and fabricate small parts on the 1st floor for unknown 
reasons. They finally built a machine that wouldn't fit into the elevator. 
Like many old mills, there was a door that opened to the outside.

One weekend the managers rigged a boom and tried to lower the machine with 
a hoist. The boom failed. Come Monday the grunts got to repair the damage. 
Moral: don't let the director of engineering, an EE, do CE calculations.

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#93925

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 22:16 +0100
Message-ID<11au47v$3k12p$15@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93912
On 16/10/2026 20:24, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck
>> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial
>> proportions. I stopped them :
>> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
>> "Don't worry, it can"
>> "How do you know"
>> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
>> weren't looking"
> 
> The first company I worked for chose to assemble the larger machines on
> the 3rd floor and fabricate small parts on the 1st floor for unknown
> reasons. They finally built a machine that wouldn't fit into the elevator.
> Like many old mills, there was a door that opened to the outside.
> 
> One weekend the managers rigged a boom and tried to lower the machine with
> a hoist. The boom failed. Come Monday the grunts got to repair the damage.
> Moral: don't let the director of engineering, an EE, do CE calculations.

LOL
Fist engine I lifted out we used a 5 ton block and tackle designed for 
yacht use.
Whole car was less than 2 tons

Engine got stuck but we kept on heaving.

Now that block may have nee able to withstand 5 tons, but it was bent to 
buggery just with under two.

Floor beams are not specified for the load they can carry without 
breaking, they are specified for the load they can carry without the 
floor looking like a saucer.

Aircraft wings are specified for the load they can stand without 
buckling, They bend all over the shop in flight


-- 
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

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#94088

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-10-17 22:53 +0200
Message-ID<vr3dqmxr17.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#93912
On 2026-10-16 21:24, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck
>> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial
>> proportions. I stopped them :
>> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
>> "Don't worry, it can"
>> "How do you know"
>> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
>> weren't looking"
> 
> The first company I worked for chose to assemble the larger machines on
> the 3rd floor and fabricate small parts on the 1st floor for unknown
> reasons. They finally built a machine that wouldn't fit into the elevator.
> Like many old mills, there was a door that opened to the outside.
> 
> One weekend the managers rigged a boom and tried to lower the machine with
> a hoist. The boom failed. Come Monday the grunts got to repair the damage.
> Moral: don't let the director of engineering, an EE, do CE calculations.

In Spain, the Telefónica exchanges were built like that. Maybe three 
levels, each one very tall (allowing to have cables under a false floor 
and also above the tall racks).

Each level had a huge door to the outside, with iron beams above to 
attach pulleys. And two removable rails. I never saw one of those working.

Now they are almost empty, using VoIP machinery that I have not seen.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#93802

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 06:02 +0000
Message-ID<11asel3$31l32$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93798
On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 21:53:57 -0700, Peyton wrote:

> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
> script.

Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of corporate
vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a good hiding
over his attempts to hijack Java?

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#93805

From"Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us>
Date2026-10-15 23:26 -0700
Message-ID<87a4oe40v3.fsf@solcaium.us>
In reply to#93802
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 21:53:57 -0700, Peyton wrote:
>
>> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
>> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
>> script.
>
> Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of corporate
> vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a good hiding
> over his attempts to hijack Java?

Something like that. Java got popular, and Microsoft didn't have control
over it. Microsoft feared that if Java got big enough they could bend
them over. So Microsoft created their own implementation of Java, Sun
sued so they created C#.
--

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#93807

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-16 06:42 +0000
Message-ID<njdvb5Fit4rU14@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#93805
On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:26:40 -0700, Peyton wrote:

> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> 
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 21:53:57 -0700, Peyton wrote:
>>
>>> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
>>> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
>>> script.
>>
>> Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of corporate
>> vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a good hiding
>> over his attempts to hijack Java?
> 
> Something like that. Java got popular, and Microsoft didn't have control
> over it. Microsoft feared that if Java got big enough they could bend
> them over. So Microsoft created their own implementation of Java, Sun
> sued so they created C#.

Visual J++ was superior when it came to coding in the Microsoft ecosystem. 
As you say, Sun sued so the short lived J# was created, followed by C#. C# 
is an improvement on Java, which is slow and bloated.

It's telling that back in the day IBM's skunkworks created the jikes Java 
compiler which was much faster than javac.

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#93808

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 07:41 +0000
Message-ID<11askeu$33cuk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93805
On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:26:40 -0700, Peyton wrote:

> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 21:53:57 -0700, Peyton wrote:
>>
>>> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
>>> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
>>> script.
>>
>> Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of
>> corporate vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a
>> good hiding over his attempts to hijack Java?
>
> Something like that. Java got popular, and Microsoft didn't have
> control over it. Microsoft feared that if Java got big enough they
> could bend them over. So Microsoft created their own implementation
> of Java, Sun sued so they created C#.

Here’s another fun thing. Microsoft has been offering Python API
access to Excel users -- and it wants to charge extra for that. Guess
it figures the users are too dumb to figure out they can bypass
Microsoft, and Excel, and make use of Python for free.

You think they could get away with doing that with C♯?

Somehow I don’t think so ...

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#93806

FromLeroy H <lh@somewhere.net>
Date2026-10-16 06:39 +0000
Message-ID<18deef3d76b2b714$10949$2836843$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com>
In reply to#93802
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 06:02:11 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> 
> Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of corporate
> vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a good hiding
> over his attempts to hijack Java?
>

C# is the most abominable concoction to ever emerge from the human mind
but it, like the failed XPS and WMV formats, represents Microsoft's
intention to dominate all of computing.

Unfortunately, in this case they succeeded.  C# is the dominant choice
for most corporate computing projects and consequently it has sucked
in hordes of C# code monkeys that are falsely labeled as "programmers."

But this thread is about Decimal Floating Point (DFP).

DFP is the preferred format for all calculations.  However, only
IBM Power processors contain the hardware to implement DFP.  All
other systems must use software DFP routines.

GNU/Linux needs DFP libraries but, as indicated, these are no longer
being maintained.

Most "programmers" will only respond with blank stares and gaping mouths.

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#93812

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-10-16 04:22 -0400
Message-ID<YIucnXGZp-ogQ0z3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#93802
On 10/16/26 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 21:53:57 -0700, Peyton wrote:
> 
>> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
>> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
>> script.
> 
> Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of corporate
> vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a good hiding
> over his attempts to hijack Java?

   There is NO really good reason for C++

   Yea, yea, it's "object" - but in C you
   don't REALLY need that.

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