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No, Windows doesn't "just work"

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  No, Windows doesn't "just work" vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2015-10-01 23:49 +0000
    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-10-01 19:56 -0400
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-10-02 09:57 -0400
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-10-02 13:48 -0600
    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 00:11 +0000
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2015-10-03 16:30 +0000
        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 17:23 +0000
        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2015-10-03 13:36 -0500
          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-03 12:12 -0700
          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 19:41 +0000
    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2015-10-01 20:48 -0400
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2015-10-02 13:42 +0100
        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Desk Rabbit <me@example.com> - 2015-10-02 14:33 +0100
          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-10-02 10:09 -0400
        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-10-02 13:51 -0600
        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 20:33 +0000
          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2015-10-02 22:52 +0100
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Desk Rabbit <me@example.com> - 2015-10-02 14:31 +0100
        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 15:45 +0000
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-10-02 11:38 -0400
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-10-02 13:50 -0600
    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Desk Rabbit <me@example.com> - 2015-10-02 14:12 +0100
    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 15:12 +0000
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-10-02 11:37 -0400
        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-10-02 11:46 -0400
          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-10-02 12:39 -0400
            Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-10-02 13:54 -0600
        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-10-02 13:53 -0600
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-10-02 12:32 -0400
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-10-02 13:52 -0600
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 20:36 +0000
        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 00:49 +0000
          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" onion knight <onionknight@linuxmail.org> - 2015-10-03 21:05 -0400
            Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 02:05 +0000
              Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-10-03 22:44 -0400
                Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-10-04 04:56 +0200
                  Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 03:46 +0000
                    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 04:02 +0000
                      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 12:18 +0000
                      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 15:52 +0000
                        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 12:34 +0000
                          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-05 09:18 -0700
                            Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 09:32 -0700
                            Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-10-05 12:38 -0400
                        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-05 07:50 -0500
                          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" nom de plume <nomdeplume@stickybit.guru> - 2015-10-05 11:57 -0400
                      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-04 10:18 -0700
                    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-10-04 06:04 +0200
                  Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 03:58 +0000
                    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-10-04 06:17 +0200
                    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2015-10-04 10:15 -0500
                      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 08:29 -0700
                        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2015-10-04 10:42 -0500
                          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 08:54 -0700
                          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-10-04 12:46 -0400
                          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-04 09:46 -0700
                            Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2015-10-04 12:10 -0500
                              Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-04 10:14 -0700
                                Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2015-10-04 12:33 -0500
                                  Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-04 11:01 -0700
                              Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 13:18 -0700
                      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-04 10:22 -0700
                      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-04 10:27 -0700
                    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-04 10:19 -0700
                  Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-04 10:21 -0700
              Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-10-04 04:56 +0200
                Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 03:57 +0000
                  Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 12:19 +0000
                    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-10-04 12:04 -0400
                      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2015-10-04 11:13 -0500
                        Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" awoolmeyer@gmail.com - 2015-10-04 13:19 -0700
                          Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2015-10-04 15:40 -0500
                  Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-04 10:20 -0700
            Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2015-10-04 10:28 -0500
              Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2015-10-04 10:45 -0500
    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 20:32 +0000
      Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 21:27 +0000
    Re: No, Windows doesn't "just work" awoolmeyer@gmail.com - 2015-10-04 13:10 -0700

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#323748 — No, Windows doesn't "just work"

No, Windows 7 does not "just work" -- and Linux runs rings around
it when it comes to updating or installing the system.

Day-before-yesterday afternoon, I began upgrading my machine
from Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit to Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit.

Well, I say "upgrade", but when I chose that option in setup, it
told me to use "Windows anytime upgrade".  (And as we know, that
hasn't worked for a while now.)

So!  I did a custom installation, then merged my old user
directory from Windows.old to the new user directory.  I had a
few bits of software to tweak to get them running right, but
that wasn't much of a problem.

The problem was updates.  It took over 24 hours of wall clock
time to apply all the updates.  It included one BSOD, a few
update fixes, and some comparisons of update KB numbers with a
list I have of those to avoid.  (No, Microsoft, you can't put
your "telemetry" on my computer.)  You'd think Microsoft would
have fixed their update system by now, because it takes a
ridiculous amount of time to do anything non-trivial.

Also, Win 7 didn't "just work" with my keyboard.  I have a
DasKeyboard, which Windows didn't recognize, whether it was
plugged into a USB 2 or a USB 3 port.  I ended up using the
on-screen keyboard to get the USB 3 chipset drivers from ASUS
installed, which then let me use the keyboard when plugged into
a USB 3 port (but not a USB 2 port).

This is fine until I needed to reboot -- to talk to the bios, I
have to plug the keyboard into a USB 2 port.  And back and forth
I would go as it told me to restart after each set of updates. 
A couple of times, it would reboot, then say it was applying
updates -- I'd move the keyboard to a USB 3 port, then it would
say "shutting down", because that phase of the updates didn't
include booting to windows immediately.  So I'd move it back,
all the while feeling trolled by Windows.

I think it was around the time SP1 got installed that Windows
started recognizing the keyboard in a USB 2 port.  So I could
cease the "ol' switcheroo" game I had to play.

You might wonder why I went through all this pain to get Win 7
Ultimate installed.  I figured that I'm not going to be using
Win 10, so I might as well stick with Win 7 for my gaming -- and
one limitation with Home Premium is that it would only use 16GB
of my 32GB system.

Also, I was frankly curious about the "official" Microsoft Unix
services, especially the NFS client.  I was underwhelmed with
the performance of the latter, as it could barely do 200mbit
with my Synology NAS.  (Whereas, Linux as an NFS client can do
read at a rate approaching 800mbit, and write at over 400mbit).

Windows filesharing seems slow as a dog, whether NFS or SMB.

Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour
ordeal, I wished Windows had a more modern update
mechanism -- and I would tell myself "Linux would never
do this to me."

-- 
 -v
Kernel:4.1.5-sd  Desktop:Xfce 4.12.2  Distro:Linux Mint 17.2 Rafaela

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#323750

On 2015-10-01 7:49 PM, vallor wrote:
> No, Windows 7 does not "just work" -- and Linux runs rings around
> it when it comes to updating or installing the system.

Welcome to 2015, people use Windows 10 here.

> Day-before-yesterday afternoon, I began upgrading my machine
> from Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit to Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit.

2015 man.

> Well, I say "upgrade", but when I chose that option in setup, it
> told me to use "Windows anytime upgrade".  (And as we know, that
> hasn't worked for a while now.)
> 
> So!  I did a custom installation, then merged my old user
> directory from Windows.old to the new user directory.  I had a
> few bits of software to tweak to get them running right, but
> that wasn't much of a problem.
> 
> The problem was updates.  It took over 24 hours of wall clock
> time to apply all the updates.  It included one BSOD, a few
> update fixes, and some comparisons of update KB numbers with a
> list I have of those to avoid.  (No, Microsoft, you can't put
> your "telemetry" on my computer.)  You'd think Microsoft would
> have fixed their update system by now, because it takes a
> ridiculous amount of time to do anything non-trivial.

Probably because you're asked to do 6 years worth of updates... in an
order which WON'T cause your machine to become unbootable the way Linux
does it.

> Also, Win 7 didn't "just work" with my keyboard.  I have a
> DasKeyboard, which Windows didn't recognize, whether it was
> plugged into a USB 2 or a USB 3 port.  I ended up using the
> on-screen keyboard to get the USB 3 chipset drivers from ASUS
> installed, which then let me use the keyboard when plugged into
> a USB 3 port (but not a USB 2 port).

A 2009 version of Windows didn't support hardware produced after its
release? UNFATHOMABLE!

> This is fine until I needed to reboot -- to talk to the bios, I
> have to plug the keyboard into a USB 2 port.  And back and forth
> I would go as it told me to restart after each set of updates. 
> A couple of times, it would reboot, then say it was applying
> updates -- I'd move the keyboard to a USB 3 port, then it would
> say "shutting down", because that phase of the updates didn't
> include booting to windows immediately.  So I'd move it back,
> all the while feeling trolled by Windows.
> 
> I think it was around the time SP1 got installed that Windows
> started recognizing the keyboard in a USB 2 port.  So I could
> cease the "ol' switcheroo" game I had to play.
> 
> You might wonder why I went through all this pain to get Win 7
> Ultimate installed.  I figured that I'm not going to be using
> Win 10, so I might as well stick with Win 7 for my gaming -- and
> one limitation with Home Premium is that it would only use 16GB
> of my 32GB system.
> 
> Also, I was frankly curious about the "official" Microsoft Unix
> services, especially the NFS client.  I was underwhelmed with
> the performance of the latter, as it could barely do 200mbit
> with my Synology NAS.  (Whereas, Linux as an NFS client can do
> read at a rate approaching 800mbit, and write at over 400mbit).
> 
> Windows filesharing seems slow as a dog, whether NFS or SMB.
> 
> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour
> ordeal, I wished Windows had a more modern update
> mechanism -- and I would tell myself "Linux would never
> do this to me."

Of course not, Linux would simply go through one series of updates and
then prevent you from booting into it again after a restart.


-- 
A.M

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#323799

"A.M" <.m@nsn.s> wrote in message news:mukh3b$nul$1@dont-email.me...
> On 2015-10-01 7:49 PM, vallor wrote:
>> No, Windows 7 does not "just work" -- and Linux runs rings around
>> it when it comes to updating or installing the system.
>
> Welcome to 2015, people use Windows 10 here.
>
>> Day-before-yesterday afternoon, I began upgrading my machine
>> from Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit to Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit.
>

Doty/vallor is such a whining little bitch.

He can't do anything without running into problems and then crying like a 
little drama queen.

-- 
And it's not even called "X-Windows" -- or at least, not by anybody who 
knows what their talking about.

It's either "X" or the "X Window System" -- never "X-Windows".

vallor - trying to sound smart but failing badly.
<55428d68$0$19997$c3e8da3$1cbc7475@news.astraweb.com>

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#323857

On 10/01/15 17:56, A.M wrote:
> On 2015-10-01 7:49 PM, vallor wrote:
>> No, Windows 7 does not "just work" -- and Linux runs rings around
>> it when it comes to updating or installing the system.
>
> Welcome to 2015, people use Windows 10 here.
>
>> Day-before-yesterday afternoon, I began upgrading my machine
>> from Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit to Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit.
>
> 2015 man.
>
>> Well, I say "upgrade", but when I chose that option in setup, it
>> told me to use "Windows anytime upgrade".  (And as we know, that
>> hasn't worked for a while now.)
>>
>> So!  I did a custom installation, then merged my old user
>> directory from Windows.old to the new user directory.  I had a
>> few bits of software to tweak to get them running right, but
>> that wasn't much of a problem.
>>
>> The problem was updates.  It took over 24 hours of wall clock
>> time to apply all the updates.  It included one BSOD, a few
>> update fixes, and some comparisons of update KB numbers with a
>> list I have of those to avoid.  (No, Microsoft, you can't put
>> your "telemetry" on my computer.)  You'd think Microsoft would
>> have fixed their update system by now, because it takes a
>> ridiculous amount of time to do anything non-trivial.
>
> Probably because you're asked to do 6 years worth of updates... in an
> order which WON'T cause your machine to become unbootable the way Linux
> does it.
>
>> Also, Win 7 didn't "just work" with my keyboard.  I have a
>> DasKeyboard, which Windows didn't recognize, whether it was
>> plugged into a USB 2 or a USB 3 port.  I ended up using the
>> on-screen keyboard to get the USB 3 chipset drivers from ASUS
>> installed, which then let me use the keyboard when plugged into
>> a USB 3 port (but not a USB 2 port).
>
> A 2009 version of Windows didn't support hardware produced after its
> release? UNFATHOMABLE!
>
>> This is fine until I needed to reboot -- to talk to the bios, I
>> have to plug the keyboard into a USB 2 port.  And back and forth
>> I would go as it told me to restart after each set of updates.
>> A couple of times, it would reboot, then say it was applying
>> updates -- I'd move the keyboard to a USB 3 port, then it would
>> say "shutting down", because that phase of the updates didn't
>> include booting to windows immediately.  So I'd move it back,
>> all the while feeling trolled by Windows.
>>
>> I think it was around the time SP1 got installed that Windows
>> started recognizing the keyboard in a USB 2 port.  So I could
>> cease the "ol' switcheroo" game I had to play.
>>
>> You might wonder why I went through all this pain to get Win 7
>> Ultimate installed.  I figured that I'm not going to be using
>> Win 10, so I might as well stick with Win 7 for my gaming -- and
>> one limitation with Home Premium is that it would only use 16GB
>> of my 32GB system.
>>
>> Also, I was frankly curious about the "official" Microsoft Unix
>> services, especially the NFS client.  I was underwhelmed with
>> the performance of the latter, as it could barely do 200mbit
>> with my Synology NAS.  (Whereas, Linux as an NFS client can do
>> read at a rate approaching 800mbit, and write at over 400mbit).
>>
>> Windows filesharing seems slow as a dog, whether NFS or SMB.
>>
>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour
>> ordeal, I wished Windows had a more modern update
>> mechanism -- and I would tell myself "Linux would never
>> do this to me."
>
> Of course not, Linux would simply go through one series of updates and
> then prevent you from booting into it again after a restart.
>
>
None of it matters really.  Win7 has never given me the problems he is 
ranting on about.  Must be a made up story.


-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#323751

On Thu, 01 Oct 2015 23:49:11 +0000, vallor wrote:

> No, Windows 7 does not "just work" -- and Linux runs rings around it
> when it comes to updating or installing the system.
>
Yes, updating with Windows can be a royal PITA!  Installing?  Nah, dead 
simple.
 
> Day-before-yesterday afternoon, I began upgrading my machine from
> Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit to Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit.
>
Which really isn't an upgrade in any sane sense of the word.  To go from 
and end of life product to another version of that same end of life 
product is just idiotic.
 
> Well, I say "upgrade", but when I chose that option in setup, it told me
> to use "Windows anytime upgrade".  (And as we know, that hasn't worked
> for a while now.)
> 
Correct.  That's because Windows 7 is not a supported product.

> So!  I did a custom installation, then merged my old user directory from
> Windows.old to the new user directory.  I had a few bits of software to
> tweak to get them running right, but that wasn't much of a problem.
> 
> The problem was updates.  It took over 24 hours of wall clock time to
> apply all the updates.  It included one BSOD, a few update fixes, and
> some comparisons of update KB numbers with a list I have of those to
> avoid.  (No, Microsoft, you can't put your "telemetry" on my computer.) 
> You'd think Microsoft would have fixed their update system by now,
> because it takes a ridiculous amount of time to do anything non-trivial.
> 
> Also, Win 7 didn't "just work" with my keyboard.  I have a DasKeyboard,
> which Windows didn't recognize, whether it was plugged into a USB 2 or a
> USB 3 port.  I ended up using the on-screen keyboard to get the USB 3
> chipset drivers from ASUS installed, which then let me use the keyboard
> when plugged into a USB 3 port (but not a USB 2 port).
> 
> This is fine until I needed to reboot -- to talk to the bios, I have to
> plug the keyboard into a USB 2 port.  And back and forth I would go as
> it told me to restart after each set of updates.
> A couple of times, it would reboot, then say it was applying updates --
> I'd move the keyboard to a USB 3 port, then it would say "shutting
> down", because that phase of the updates didn't include booting to
> windows immediately.  So I'd move it back, all the while feeling trolled
> by Windows.
> 
> I think it was around the time SP1 got installed that Windows started
> recognizing the keyboard in a USB 2 port.  So I could cease the "ol'
> switcheroo" game I had to play.
>
So the fact that a USB keyboard didn't work is because support for it was 
not in that original installation.  Wow!  Who would a thunk it?
 
> You might wonder why I went through all this pain to get Win 7 Ultimate
> installed.  I figured that I'm not going to be using Win 10, so I might
> as well stick with Win 7 for my gaming -- and one limitation with Home
> Premium is that it would only use 16GB of my 32GB system.
> 
> Also, I was frankly curious about the "official" Microsoft Unix
> services, especially the NFS client.  I was underwhelmed with the
> performance of the latter, as it could barely do 200mbit with my
> Synology NAS.  (Whereas, Linux as an NFS client can do read at a rate
> approaching 800mbit, and write at over 400mbit).
> 
> Windows filesharing seems slow as a dog, whether NFS or SMB.
> 
> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour ordeal, I
> wished Windows had a more modern update mechanism -- and I would tell
> myself "Linux would never do this to me."

What gaming doesn't work on W10?  Or are you talking about some very old 
games?




-- 
Lloyd

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#323966

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:11:04 +0000, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
 
>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour ordeal,
>> I wished Windows had a more modern update mechanism -- and I would tell
>> myself "Linux would never do this to me."
> 
> What gaming doesn't work on W10?  Or are you talking about some very old
> games?

You must have missed my post from a few weeks ago, where I explained that 
I upgraded to W10, then (after two days of turning things off and _still_ 
finding crap it did that I didn't want it to do), I tried to back-grade 
back to Win7, which failed, which meant I had to re-install Win7 Home 
Premium.

The lack of transparency in W10 is shameful -- the straw that broke the 
camel's back was discovering the p2p update mechanism.  (I recommend 
people turn it off, if you don't want your machine announcing itself to 
the world that it's around.)  Also, you can't fully control updates 
except in Enterprise, which is just plain stupid.

After much deliberation, I decided I'm just going to stick it out with 
Win7 as long as I can get updates for it.  Since Win7 Home Premium is 
only licensed for 16GB, I could put up with that, or upgrade so it would 
see my machines 32GB.  I decided it was worth it to get "Ultimate" -- not 
only for the added "oomph", but to satisfy my curiosity about the NFS 
client.

And no, Lloyd, it's not "idiotic".  Kindly redirect your invective 
elsewhere.

-- 
 -v
Kernel:4.1.5-sd  Desktop:Xfce 4.12.2  Distro:Linux Mint 17.2 Rafaela

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#323974

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 16:30:46 +0000, vallor wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:11:04 +0000, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>  
>>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour ordeal,
>>> I wished Windows had a more modern update mechanism -- and I would
>>> tell myself "Linux would never do this to me."
>> 
>> What gaming doesn't work on W10?  Or are you talking about some very
>> old games?
> 
> You must have missed my post from a few weeks ago, where I explained
> that I upgraded to W10, then (after two days of turning things off and
> _still_
> finding crap it did that I didn't want it to do), I tried to back-grade
> back to Win7, which failed, which meant I had to re-install Win7 Home
> Premium.
> 
I must have or had forgotten about it.  Yeah, I've read quite a few posts 
about how backgrading to W7 didn't work well at all.  I did a backgrade 
to W8.1 which went well.  But then tried to do another on the Yoga 2 Pro 
and it just screwed everything up.

Fortunately Lenovo's 'recovery partition' doesn't get screwed with by W10 
installs so I took it back to 'out of box' and worked up from there.

> The lack of transparency in W10 is shameful -- the straw that broke the
> camel's back was discovering the p2p update mechanism.  (I recommend
> people turn it off, if you don't want your machine announcing itself to
> the world that it's around.)  Also, you can't fully control updates
> except in Enterprise, which is just plain stupid.
> 
Amen brother!!  I don't like either of those things.

> After much deliberation, I decided I'm just going to stick it out with
> Win7 as long as I can get updates for it.  Since Win7 Home Premium is
> only licensed for 16GB, I could put up with that, or upgrade so it would
> see my machines 32GB.  I decided it was worth it to get "Ultimate" --
> not only for the added "oomph", but to satisfy my curiosity about the
> NFS client.
> 
> And no, Lloyd, it's not "idiotic".  Kindly redirect your invective
> elsewhere.





-- 
Lloyd

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#323976

On 2015-10-03, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:11:04 +0000, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>  
>>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour ordeal,
>>> I wished Windows had a more modern update mechanism -- and I would tell
>>> myself "Linux would never do this to me."
>> 
>> What gaming doesn't work on W10?  Or are you talking about some very old
>> games?

    Why should "very old games" be excepted?

    Windows has been a "real OS" for a long time now. There's no good reason
that older games shouldn't be able to play on newer versions of Windows. You
seem to be holding Windows to a lower standard than you would hold Linux to.

[deletia]

    If you go back farther than that, then even "normal applications" may
run afoul of current expectations because of the relaxed manner in which 
older applications were written. That's a problem since legacy support of
old applications is the whole "meat and potatoes" of the Windows platform.

    It's the tons of obscure vertical apps and bespoke corporate applications
that keep Windows relevant as a platform. Some of those can be quite old but
no one has any interest in redoing them.

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#323977

On 10/3/15, 11:36 AM, in article slrnn1080k.nal.jedi@nomad.mishnet,
"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

> On 2015-10-03, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:11:04 +0000, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>  
>>>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour ordeal,
>>>> I wished Windows had a more modern update mechanism -- and I would tell
>>>> myself "Linux would never do this to me."
>>> 
>>> What gaming doesn't work on W10?  Or are you talking about some very old
>>> games?
> 
>     Why should "very old games" be excepted?
> 
>     Windows has been a "real OS" for a long time now. There's no good reason
> that older games shouldn't be able to play on newer versions of Windows. You
> seem to be holding Windows to a lower standard than you would hold Linux to.
> 
> [deletia]
> 
>     If you go back farther than that, then even "normal applications" may
> run afoul of current expectations because of the relaxed manner in which
> older applications were written. That's a problem since legacy support of
> old applications is the whole "meat and potatoes" of the Windows platform.
> 
>     It's the tons of obscure vertical apps and bespoke corporate applications
> that keep Windows relevant as a platform. Some of those can be quite old but
> no one has any interest in redoing them.

Windows is usually pretty good here. If you want to attack an OS /
environment for not supporting older software OS X is a better place to
look. Far too often programs stop working on updates of the OS.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#323983

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:36:04 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:

> On 2015-10-03, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:11:04 +0000, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>  
>>>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour
>>>> ordeal, I wished Windows had a more modern update mechanism -- and I
>>>> would tell myself "Linux would never do this to me."
>>> 
>>> What gaming doesn't work on W10?  Or are you talking about some very
>>> old games?
> 
>     Why should "very old games" be excepted?
> 
>     Windows has been a "real OS" for a long time now. There's no good
>     reason
> that older games shouldn't be able to play on newer versions of Windows.
> You seem to be holding Windows to a lower standard than you would hold
> Linux to.
> 
Not at all.  BTW, I'm perfectly capable of saying precisely what I mean, 
I don't need you to think you're smart enough to do that.

> [deletia]
> 
>     If you go back farther than that, then even "normal applications"
>     may
> run afoul of current expectations because of the relaxed manner in which
> older applications were written. That's a problem since legacy support
> of old applications is the whole "meat and potatoes" of the Windows
> platform.
> 
Yep, Windows has always had those 'legacy' apps to support and has 
actually done quite well doing it.  But even so, to expect some very old 
stuff to still work is almost wishful thinking.

Some will, some won't.

>     It's the tons of obscure vertical apps and bespoke corporate
>     applications
> that keep Windows relevant as a platform. Some of those can be quite old
> but no one has any interest in redoing them.

Absolutely.  So what is your point?




-- 
Lloyd

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#323764

vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> <rest of story snipped>
>
> Windows filesharing seems slow as a dog, whether NFS or SMB.
>
> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour
> ordeal, I wished Windows had a more modern update
> mechanism -- and I would tell myself "Linux would never
> do this to me."

Windows can be pretty damned painful to use.  We have a number of
workstations set up at work, all the same hardware, all from the
same Windows image.  And yet some of them act noticeably different from the
others.

And like you said, slow as hell.  Still well worthy of the long-time
nickname, "Windoze".

Microsoft -- the perfect antidote to Moore's Law.

-- 
Be cautious in your daily affairs.

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#323786

It was reported that Chris Ahlstrom posted:

> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> <rest of story snipped>
>>
>> Windows filesharing seems slow as a dog, whether NFS or SMB.
>>
>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour
>> ordeal, I wished Windows had a more modern update
>> mechanism -- and I would tell myself "Linux would never
>> do this to me."
>
> Windows can be pretty damned painful to use.  We have a number of
> workstations set up at work, all the same hardware, all from the
> same Windows image.  And yet some of them act noticeably different from the
> others.
>
> And like you said, slow as hell.  Still well worthy of the long-time
> nickname, "Windoze".
>
> Microsoft -- the perfect antidote to Moore's Law.

A few weeks ago I partitioned & installed openSUSE 13.2 on a friend's 
desktop (he's an accountant) which was running W8 "Tiles". 
I copied all the files across from W8 onto the openSUSE partition. He was
already using LibreOffice 5, (which I'd replaced M$Orifice with) so those
files were no problem.
He's been using openSUSE ever since & likes it. 
"Much* better than W8" he said "Faster & easier", & he's asked me to remove
W8 from his system. :-)

-- 
openSUSE 13.2 64-bit
KDE 4.14.9
Kernel: 4.2.2-1.gb3ecf72-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 
Tue Sep 29 18:51:15 UTC 2015 (b3ecf72) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

This message is virus free, as absolutely 
NO Micro$oft products were used in its preparation. 

"If you do want to clean your computer of malware, the first software to
delete is Windows."
http://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html

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#323790

On 02/10/2015 13:42, William Poaster wrote:
> It was reported that Chris Ahlstrom posted:
>
>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> <rest of story snipped>
>>>
>>> Windows filesharing seems slow as a dog, whether NFS or SMB.
>>>
>>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour
>>> ordeal, I wished Windows had a more modern update
>>> mechanism -- and I would tell myself "Linux would never
>>> do this to me."
>>
>> Windows can be pretty damned painful to use.  We have a number of
>> workstations set up at work, all the same hardware, all from the
>> same Windows image.  And yet some of them act noticeably different from the
>> others.
>>
>> And like you said, slow as hell.  Still well worthy of the long-time
>> nickname, "Windoze".
>>
>> Microsoft -- the perfect antidote to Moore's Law.
>
> A few weeks ago I partitioned & installed openSUSE 13.2 on a friend's
> desktop (he's an accountant) which was running W8 "Tiles".
> I copied all the files across from W8 onto the openSUSE partition. He was
> already using LibreOffice 5, (which I'd replaced M$Orifice with) so those
> files were no problem.
> He's been using openSUSE ever since & likes it.
> "Much* better than W8" he said "Faster & easier", & he's asked me to remove
> W8 from his system. :-)
>

I guess he doesn't have any clients using the defacto standard Sage 
accounts or Quickbooks. They must all be using quill and parchment.

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#323802

On 2015-10-02 9:33 AM, Desk Rabbit wrote:
> On 02/10/2015 13:42, William Poaster wrote:
>> It was reported that Chris Ahlstrom posted:
>>
>>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> <rest of story snipped>
>>>>
>>>> Windows filesharing seems slow as a dog, whether NFS or SMB.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour
>>>> ordeal, I wished Windows had a more modern update
>>>> mechanism -- and I would tell myself "Linux would never
>>>> do this to me."
>>>
>>> Windows can be pretty damned painful to use.  We have a number of
>>> workstations set up at work, all the same hardware, all from the
>>> same Windows image.  And yet some of them act noticeably different
>>> from the
>>> others.
>>>
>>> And like you said, slow as hell.  Still well worthy of the long-time
>>> nickname, "Windoze".
>>>
>>> Microsoft -- the perfect antidote to Moore's Law.
>>
>> A few weeks ago I partitioned & installed openSUSE 13.2 on a friend's
>> desktop (he's an accountant) which was running W8 "Tiles".
>> I copied all the files across from W8 onto the openSUSE partition. He was
>> already using LibreOffice 5, (which I'd replaced M$Orifice with) so those
>> files were no problem.
>> He's been using openSUSE ever since & likes it.
>> "Much* better than W8" he said "Faster & easier", & he's asked me to
>> remove
>> W8 from his system. :-)
>>
> 
> I guess he doesn't have any clients using the defacto standard Sage
> accounts or Quickbooks. They must all be using quill and parchment.

Believing Wideload Porkster's story would require us to believe that he
has a friend.

-- 
A.M

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#323859

On 10/02/15 06:42, William Poaster wrote:
> It was reported that Chris Ahlstrom posted:
>
>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> <rest of story snipped>
>>>
>>> Windows filesharing seems slow as a dog, whether NFS or SMB.
>>>
>>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour
>>> ordeal, I wished Windows had a more modern update
>>> mechanism -- and I would tell myself "Linux would never
>>> do this to me."
>>
>> Windows can be pretty damned painful to use.  We have a number of
>> workstations set up at work, all the same hardware, all from the
>> same Windows image.  And yet some of them act noticeably different from the
>> others.
>>
>> And like you said, slow as hell.  Still well worthy of the long-time
>> nickname, "Windoze".
>>
>> Microsoft -- the perfect antidote to Moore's Law.
>
> A few weeks ago I partitioned&  installed openSUSE 13.2 on a friend's
> desktop (he's an accountant) which was running W8 "Tiles".

Was that Walmart Jeremy's desktop?

LOL!!!

> I copied all the files across from W8 onto the openSUSE partition. He was
> already using LibreOffice 5, (which I'd replaced M$Orifice with) so those
> files were no problem.
> He's been using openSUSE ever since&  likes it.
> "Much* better than W8" he said "Faster&  easier",&  he's asked me to remove
> W8 from his system. :-)
>
Guffaw!!!  More fairy tales from Dumb Willie.

-- 
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."

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#323873

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 13:42:45 +0100, William Poaster wrote:

> A few weeks ago I partitioned & installed openSUSE 13.2 on a friend's
> desktop (he's an accountant) which was running W8 "Tiles".
> I copied all the files across from W8 onto the openSUSE partition. He
> was already using LibreOffice 5, (which I'd replaced M$Orifice with) so
> those files were no problem.
> He's been using openSUSE ever since & likes it.
> "Much* better than W8" he said "Faster & easier", & he's asked me to
> remove W8 from his system.

Another escape from WinCrap! 

-- 
Zero tolerance for WinDrones and iCultists

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#323895

It was reported that ronb posted:

> On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 13:42:45 +0100, William Poaster wrote:
>
>> A few weeks ago I partitioned & installed openSUSE 13.2 on a friend's
>> desktop (he's an accountant) which was running W8 "Tiles".
>> I copied all the files across from W8 onto the openSUSE partition. He
>> was already using LibreOffice 5, (which I'd replaced M$Orifice with) so
>> those files were no problem.
>> He's been using openSUSE ever since & likes it.
>> "Much* better than W8" he said "Faster & easier", & he's asked me to
>> remove W8 from his system.
>
> Another escape from WinCrap! 

The next operation is to install it on his Asus laptop, which ATM is
running M$ Fista & even *after* defragging his drive, is running as slow as
molasses. I put a 32-bit openSUSE Live-CD in the drive & booted with it. 
The difference in speed was terrific. Why on earth Asus shipped a laptop
with Fista & 2GB RAM, I do not know. FFS the AV will slow it down some,
then add the M$ crapware on top of that.... So next week, wipe, partition &
install openSUSE.

-- 
openSUSE 13.2 64-bit
KDE 4.14.9
Kernel: 4.2.2-1.gb3ecf72-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 
Tue Sep 29 18:51:15 UTC 2015 (b3ecf72) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

This message is virus free, as absolutely 
NO Micro$oft products were used in its preparation. 

"If you do want to clean your computer of malware, the first software to
delete is Windows."
http://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#323788

On 02/10/2015 01:48, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> <rest of story snipped>
>>
>> Windows filesharing seems slow as a dog, whether NFS or SMB.
>>
>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour
>> ordeal, I wished Windows had a more modern update
>> mechanism -- and I would tell myself "Linux would never
>> do this to me."
>
> Windows can be pretty damned painful to use.  We have a number of
> workstations set up at work, all the same hardware, all from the
> same Windows image.  And yet some of them act noticeably different from the
> others.
>
> And like you said, slow as hell.  Still well worthy of the long-time
> nickname, "Windoze".
>
> Microsoft -- the perfect antidote to Moore's Law.
>

Yet still the number one choice for business users wanting to get work 
done and not constantly fiddle and faff with the OS.

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#323817

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 14:31:03 +0100, Desk Rabbit wrote:

> On 02/10/2015 01:48, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> <rest of story snipped>
>>>
>>> Windows filesharing seems slow as a dog, whether NFS or SMB.
>>>
>>> Anyway, that's my rant.  Several times through this multi-hour ordeal,
>>> I wished Windows had a more modern update mechanism -- and I would
>>> tell myself "Linux would never do this to me."
>>
>> Windows can be pretty damned painful to use.  We have a number of
>> workstations set up at work, all the same hardware, all from the same
>> Windows image.  And yet some of them act noticeably different from the
>> others.
>>
>> And like you said, slow as hell.  Still well worthy of the long-time
>> nickname, "Windoze".
>>
>> Microsoft -- the perfect antidote to Moore's Law.
>>
>>
> Yet still the number one choice for business users wanting to get work
> done and not constantly fiddle and faff with the OS.

And also the #1 choice for consumers too.



-- 
Lloyd

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#323812

On 10/1/2015 8:48 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Windows
> Windows
> "Windoze"
> Microsoft



"Marti, we don't care about Microsoft and its products here."
Chris "Little Beaver" Ahlstrom, Oct 2013

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