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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #240220 > unrolled thread

Re: Apple has more record earnings

Started byNobody <nobody@invalid.com>
First post2014-04-25 19:42 -0500
Last post2014-04-26 04:12 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 135 — 22 participants

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  Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-25 19:42 -0500
    Re: Apple has more record earnings 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-25 20:45 -0400
    Re: Apple has more record earnings Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-25 17:48 -0700
      Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-25 18:02 -0700
      Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 00:42 -0500
        Re: Apple has more record earnings Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-25 22:56 -0700
          Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 01:11 -0500
          Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 11:00 -0500
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 09:49 -0700
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Sinister Midget <fardblossom@gmail.com> - 2014-04-26 20:09 +0000
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 13:17 -0700
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-26 15:38 -0500
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-26 13:12 -0700
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 13:16 -0700
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 16:26 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-26 15:39 -0500
                  Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 17:50 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-26 13:58 -0700
                  Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 17:52 -0400
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2014-04-26 23:59 +0200
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-27 01:01 +0200
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 21:19 -0400
                          Re: Apple has more record earnings chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-28 07:34 -0500
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-26 19:19 -0600
                  Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 17:11 -0500
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 17:07 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-26 17:36 -0500
                  Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-27 01:00 +0200
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 17:26 -0700
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 19:44 -0500
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 18:06 -0700
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings William Poaster <wp@induh-vidual.net> - 2014-04-27 09:52 +0100
                  Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 21:20 -0400
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 18:26 -0700
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings "Cola Zealot" <Cola_Zealot@fuckoff.com> - 2014-04-27 22:21 +0200
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 13:23 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-26 16:00 -0700
                  Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 19:29 -0500
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 17:43 -0700
        Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-27 18:45 -0700
    Re: Apple has more record earnings Richard Starkey <nobody@ringo.jpunix.net> - 2014-04-26 02:44 -0400
      Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 08:15 -0500
        Re: Apple has more record earnings William Poaster <wp@induh-vidual.net> - 2014-04-26 14:21 +0100
          Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 10:24 -0500
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 09:50 -0700
          Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 09:47 -0700
          Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-26 13:11 -0400
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 10:24 -0700
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2014-04-26 23:53 +0200
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-27 00:07 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-26 17:35 -0500
                  Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-27 00:57 +0200
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 19:56 -0500
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 18:06 -0700
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2014-04-27 01:24 +0000
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 18:26 -0700
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 21:27 -0400
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 18:37 -0700
                          To get -your- job done, buy a PC.  Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2014-04-26 19:07 -0700
                            Re: To get -your- job done, buy a PC.  Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 19:11 -0700
                              Re: To get -your- job done, buy a PC. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-04-26 20:26 -0700
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-27 11:19 -0400
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-27 17:46 +0200
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 09:30 -0700
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-27 12:46 -0400
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-27 13:39 -0500
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings "Cola Zealot" <Cola_Zealot@fuckoff.com> - 2014-04-27 22:30 +0200
                          Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 13:35 -0700
                            Re: Apple has more record earnings Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-04-27 14:41 -0700
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2014-04-28 15:51 +0200
                          Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 16:00 +0200
                            Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 12:20 -0400
                              Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 11:21 -0600
                                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 13:33 -0400
                                  Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 12:08 -0600
                                    Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 21:03 +0200
                                      Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 13:27 -0600
                                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 17:35 -0400
                                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-28 14:49 -0700
                                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 23:53 +0200
                                          Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 18:11 -0400
                                    Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 17:28 -0400
                            Re: Apple has more record earnings William Poaster <wp@induh-vidual.net> - 2014-04-28 22:47 +0100
                              Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 18:04 -0400
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-27 13:37 -0500
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 12:33 -0700
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2014-04-27 19:39 -0400
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 09:14 +0200
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-28 05:46 -0400
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-28 03:37 -0700
                          Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 13:00 +0200
                            Re: Apple has more record earnings DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2014-04-28 08:22 -0400
                              Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 14:37 +0200
                                Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-28 09:25 -0700
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2014-04-28 08:22 -0400
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2014-04-28 13:00 -0500
                          Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-28 12:08 -0700
                          Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-28 18:05 -0500
                            Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 19:42 -0400
                              Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-28 16:52 -0700
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2014-04-28 15:49 +0200
                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 12:11 -0400
                          Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 11:26 -0600
                            Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 13:37 -0400
                              Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-28 10:58 -0700
                                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 17:19 -0400
                                  Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-28 14:31 -0700
                                  Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 16:14 -0600
                                    Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 18:28 -0400
                                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-29 00:37 +0200
                                        Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 18:44 -0400
                                          Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-29 01:09 +0200
                                            Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 19:52 -0400
                                  Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-29 00:26 +0200
                                    Re: Apple has more record earnings chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-29 06:54 -0500
                              Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 12:11 -0600
                                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 17:32 -0400
                              Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-28 12:52 -0700
                            Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-28 14:05 -0700
                              Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 15:11 -0600
                          Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-28 12:51 -0700
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-27 18:56 -0700
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 20:40 -0700
                      Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 08:51 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 17:31 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-27 11:13 -0400
                  Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 09:29 -0700
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 17:33 -0700
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-27 11:06 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 09:24 -0700
                  Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-27 13:41 -0500
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 12:33 -0700
                    Re: Apple has more record earnings chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-28 07:59 -0500
        Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 09:50 -0700
    Re: Apple has more record earnings Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> - 2014-04-26 04:12 -0500

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#240624

FromHadron<hadronquark@gmail.com>
Date2014-04-28 15:49 +0200
Message-ID<87a9b5r2cv.fsf@gmail.com>
In reply to#240560
DFS <nospam@dfs.com> writes:

> On 04/26/2014 06:57 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
>
>>> The hardware is excellent and wintel boxes with the better hardware and
>>> designs cost about the same, though slightly less.
>>
>> Around 2 times as much as a comparable wintel box is "about the same"?
>
> Don't play JED-dumb here.
>
> Which Apple computer are you referring to?
>

Watch Kohlkopf run. And Slimer with him.

-- 
"I have a BSEE.... Negative feedback has many benefits, but "maintaining stability" is not one of them. Just the opposite, in fact." 
The turdv/chrisv idiot and his pretend BSEE degree.
PLEASE VISIT OUR HALL OF LINUX IDIOTS
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

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#240644

FromSilver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c>
Date2014-04-28 12:11 -0400
Message-ID<ljluk9$5lq$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#240624
On 2014-04-28 9:49 AM, Hadron wrote:
> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> writes:
>
>> On 04/26/2014 06:57 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>> Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
>>
>>>> The hardware is excellent and wintel boxes with the better hardware and
>>>> designs cost about the same, though slightly less.
>>>
>>> Around 2 times as much as a comparable wintel box is "about the same"?
>>
>> Don't play JED-dumb here.
>>
>> Which Apple computer are you referring to?
>>
>
> Watch Kohlkopf run. And Slimer with him.

What am I running from? You want me to build a MacPro machine for less 
than Apple charges? I'm not the one who made the statement that it can 
be made for less on the PC side, that was Peter. I was only referring to 
the laptop side where PC laptops, at the same price range as what Apple 
expects for their high-end models, end up getting much better machines. 
I can easily prove that if you so desire.

-- 
Silver Slimer
Wikipedia & OpenMedia Supporter

163 Reasons not to deal with Michael "Snit" Glasser, the Prescott 
Computer Guy
http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html

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#240675

FromGreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>
Date2014-04-28 11:26 -0600
Message-ID<X8KdnRIvmsfeEsPOnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@bresnan.com>
In reply to#240644
On 4/28/2014 10:11 AM, Silver Slimer wrote:
> On 2014-04-28 9:49 AM, Hadron wrote:
>> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 04/26/2014 06:57 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>> Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The hardware is excellent and wintel boxes with the better hardware
>>>>> and
>>>>> designs cost about the same, though slightly less.
>>>>
>>>> Around 2 times as much as a comparable wintel box is "about the same"?
>>>
>>> Don't play JED-dumb here.
>>>
>>> Which Apple computer are you referring to?
>>>
>>
>> Watch Kohlkopf run. And Slimer with him.
> 
> What am I running from? You want me to build a MacPro machine for less
> than Apple charges? I'm not the one who made the statement that it can
> be made for less on the PC side, that was Peter. I was only referring to
> the laptop side where PC laptops, at the same price range as what Apple
> expects for their high-end models, end up getting much better machines.
> I can easily prove that if you so desire.
> 
I believe that the mac pro has two cpu sockets for the Xeon processor.
Those Xeons aren't cheap.  Neither is the mobo in this case for a
regular PC.  I don't know if the regular PC comes with the Intel
Thunderbolt ports tho or if a card is made for a PC.  Plus the Xeon
can come with up to 12 cores each.  I'm happy with just the i7.

On Apple for a developer, the problems start with Apples development
tools.  The changes each release are significant enough for one to pull
his hair out wondering what changed, and why his earlier program now
doesn't work on the new os.  It is one of the reasons I went to windows.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240678

FromSilver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c>
Date2014-04-28 13:37 -0400
Message-ID<ljm3lf$9sk$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#240675
On 2014-04-28 1:26 PM, GreyCloud wrote:

>>> Watch Kohlkopf run. And Slimer with him.
>>
>> What am I running from? You want me to build a MacPro machine for less
>> than Apple charges? I'm not the one who made the statement that it can
>> be made for less on the PC side, that was Peter. I was only referring to
>> the laptop side where PC laptops, at the same price range as what Apple
>> expects for their high-end models, end up getting much better machines.
>> I can easily prove that if you so desire.
>>
> I believe that the mac pro has two cpu sockets for the Xeon processor.
> Those Xeons aren't cheap.  Neither is the mobo in this case for a
> regular PC.  I don't know if the regular PC comes with the Intel
> Thunderbolt ports tho or if a card is made for a PC.  Plus the Xeon
> can come with up to 12 cores each.  I'm happy with just the i7.
>
> On Apple for a developer, the problems start with Apples development
> tools.  The changes each release are significant enough for one to pull
> his hair out wondering what changed, and why his earlier program now
> doesn't work on the new os.  It is one of the reasons I went to windows.

Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and 
Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good they 
are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to change 
the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved motherboard? 
A PC user doesn't ask these questions because they know that they can 
and that hundreds of different options are constantly at their disposal, 
not just Apple-approved upgrades.

-- 
Silver Slimer
Wikipedia & OpenMedia Supporter

163 Reasons not to deal with Michael "Snit" Glasser, the Prescott 
Computer Guy
http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240680

From-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
Date2014-04-28 10:58 -0700
Message-ID<8b9cfef7-94af-4902-a73e-63a911f166d6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#240678
Silver Slimer wrote:
> 
> Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and 
> Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good they 
> are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to change 
> the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved motherboard? 

In the professional environment that is the audience for this machine, the simple answer is that you don't dick around with trying to modify a 'Prodution' machine.

What's done is that you go out and buy a second machine w/better specs and run it in parallel to make sure that it is sorted out, and into production.  Once it has proven itself, you retire the old machine.  

Doing anything less is cutting corners which means you're playing Russian Roulette with your livelihood.  

FWIW, this is also the same basic reason why a Pro won't mess around with Pirated software or Hackintoshes either:  the downside risks of something going wrong are simply too high.


-hh

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#240711

FromSilver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c>
Date2014-04-28 17:19 -0400
Message-ID<ljmgli$il2$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#240680
On 2014-04-28 1:58 PM, -hh wrote:
> Silver Slimer wrote:
>>
>> Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and
>> Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good they
>> are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to change
>> the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved motherboard?
>
> In the professional environment that is the audience for this machine, the simple answer is that you don't dick around with trying to modify a 'Prodution' machine.
>
> What's done is that you go out and buy a second machine w/better specs and run it in parallel to make sure that it is sorted out, and into production.  Once it has proven itself, you retire the old machine.
>
> Doing anything less is cutting corners which means you're playing Russian Roulette with your livelihood.
>
> FWIW, this is also the same basic reason why a Pro won't mess around with Pirated software or Hackintoshes either:  the downside risks of something going wrong are simply too high.

Well stated. I would rather chance an upgrade on an existing machine but 
I have to admit that anyone who relies on a machine for their business 
wouldn't want to risk the downtime and/or the possibility that an 
upgrade would fail.

I'm actually curious which distribution companies which rely on 
GNU/Linux for their business use. Redhat perhaps? Does Ubuntu provide 
any kind of assurance to businesses that there will be no failure and 
that direct support will be provided if ever there is?

-- 
Silver Slimer
Wikipedia & OpenMedia Supporter

163 Reasons not to deal with Michael "Snit" Glasser, the Prescott 
Computer Guy
http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html

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#240713

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2014-04-28 14:31 -0700
Message-ID<CF8416B3.35E9C%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to#240711
On 4/28/14, 2:19 PM, in article ljmgli$il2$2@dont-email.me, "Silver Slimer"
<slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote:

> On 2014-04-28 1:58 PM, -hh wrote:
>> Silver Slimer wrote:
>>> 
>>> Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and
>>> Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good they
>>> are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to change
>>> the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved motherboard?
>> 
>> In the professional environment that is the audience for this machine, the
>> simple answer is that you don't dick around with trying to modify a
>> 'Prodution' machine.
>> 
>> What's done is that you go out and buy a second machine w/better specs and
>> run it in parallel to make sure that it is sorted out, and into production.
>> Once it has proven itself, you retire the old machine.
>> 
>> Doing anything less is cutting corners which means you're playing Russian
>> Roulette with your livelihood.
>> 
>> FWIW, this is also the same basic reason why a Pro won't mess around with
>> Pirated software or Hackintoshes either:  the downside risks of something
>> going wrong are simply too high.
> 
> Well stated. I would rather chance an upgrade on an existing machine but
> I have to admit that anyone who relies on a machine for their business
> wouldn't want to risk the downtime and/or the possibility that an
> upgrade would fail.

Also true of most home users. But there is a subset who do care and Apple
does not serve this group well. Agreed.

> I'm actually curious which distribution companies which rely on
> GNU/Linux for their business use. Redhat perhaps? Does Ubuntu provide
> any kind of assurance to businesses that there will be no failure and
> that direct support will be provided if ever there is?



-- 
* Mint MATE: Trash, Panel, Menu:    <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint / LibreOffice:               <http://youtu.be/USU9iqppfto>
* Win 8 / Word 2013:                <http://youtu.be/z8gUL2TCcV4>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240726

FromGreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>
Date2014-04-28 16:14 -0600
Message-ID<tsCdnRu60_xxT8POnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@bresnan.com>
In reply to#240711
On 4/28/2014 3:19 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
> On 2014-04-28 1:58 PM, -hh wrote:
>> Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>
>>> Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and
>>> Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good they
>>> are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to change
>>> the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved motherboard?
>>
>> In the professional environment that is the audience for this machine,
>> the simple answer is that you don't dick around with trying to modify
>> a 'Prodution' machine.
>>
>> What's done is that you go out and buy a second machine w/better specs
>> and run it in parallel to make sure that it is sorted out, and into
>> production.  Once it has proven itself, you retire the old machine.
>>
>> Doing anything less is cutting corners which means you're playing
>> Russian Roulette with your livelihood.
>>
>> FWIW, this is also the same basic reason why a Pro won't mess around
>> with Pirated software or Hackintoshes either:  the downside risks of
>> something going wrong are simply too high.
> 
> Well stated. I would rather chance an upgrade on an existing machine but
> I have to admit that anyone who relies on a machine for their business
> wouldn't want to risk the downtime and/or the possibility that an
> upgrade would fail.
> 
> I'm actually curious which distribution companies which rely on
> GNU/Linux for their business use. Redhat perhaps? Does Ubuntu provide
> any kind of assurance to businesses that there will be no failure and
> that direct support will be provided if ever there is?
> 
From what I've seen at Loewes, they seem to use just the bare bones
linux and nothing else.  Obviously, it is all text and the use of curses
for screen positioning.  No gui is used, and from examining their
cabling, it looks like they are just using a two wire system.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240733

FromSilver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c>
Date2014-04-28 18:28 -0400
Message-ID<ljmkn5$i41$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#240726
On 2014-04-28 6:14 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
> On 4/28/2014 3:19 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>> On 2014-04-28 1:58 PM, -hh wrote:
>>> Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and
>>>> Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good they
>>>> are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to change
>>>> the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved motherboard?
>>>
>>> In the professional environment that is the audience for this machine,
>>> the simple answer is that you don't dick around with trying to modify
>>> a 'Prodution' machine.
>>>
>>> What's done is that you go out and buy a second machine w/better specs
>>> and run it in parallel to make sure that it is sorted out, and into
>>> production.  Once it has proven itself, you retire the old machine.
>>>
>>> Doing anything less is cutting corners which means you're playing
>>> Russian Roulette with your livelihood.
>>>
>>> FWIW, this is also the same basic reason why a Pro won't mess around
>>> with Pirated software or Hackintoshes either:  the downside risks of
>>> something going wrong are simply too high.
>>
>> Well stated. I would rather chance an upgrade on an existing machine but
>> I have to admit that anyone who relies on a machine for their business
>> wouldn't want to risk the downtime and/or the possibility that an
>> upgrade would fail.
>>
>> I'm actually curious which distribution companies which rely on
>> GNU/Linux for their business use. Redhat perhaps? Does Ubuntu provide
>> any kind of assurance to businesses that there will be no failure and
>> that direct support will be provided if ever there is?
>>
>  From what I've seen at Loewes, they seem to use just the bare bones
> linux and nothing else.  Obviously, it is all text and the use of curses
> for screen positioning.  No gui is used, and from examining their
> cabling, it looks like they are just using a two wire system.

There is absolutely no way a CLI-only GNU/Linux installation can fail so 
I guess it's not a bad idea. However, I'm mostly referring to any 
company which decides to produce music or graphics using only GNU/Linux. 
Are there any? If so, which is the distribution of choice for them if 
they are unwilling to even CHANCE the possibility of failure?

-- 
Silver Slimer
Wikipedia & OpenMedia Supporter

163 Reasons not to deal with Michael "Snit" Glasser, the Prescott 
Computer Guy
http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240734

FromPeter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
Date2014-04-29 00:37 +0200
Message-ID<ljml73$o02$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#240733
Silver Slimer wrote:

> On 2014-04-28 6:14 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>> On 4/28/2014 3:19 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>> On 2014-04-28 1:58 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>> Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and
>>>>> Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good
>>>>> they are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to
>>>>> change the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved
>>>>> motherboard?
>>>>
>>>> In the professional environment that is the audience for this machine,
>>>> the simple answer is that you don't dick around with trying to modify
>>>> a 'Prodution' machine.
>>>>
>>>> What's done is that you go out and buy a second machine w/better specs
>>>> and run it in parallel to make sure that it is sorted out, and into
>>>> production.  Once it has proven itself, you retire the old machine.
>>>>
>>>> Doing anything less is cutting corners which means you're playing
>>>> Russian Roulette with your livelihood.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, this is also the same basic reason why a Pro won't mess around
>>>> with Pirated software or Hackintoshes either:  the downside risks of
>>>> something going wrong are simply too high.
>>>
>>> Well stated. I would rather chance an upgrade on an existing machine but
>>> I have to admit that anyone who relies on a machine for their business
>>> wouldn't want to risk the downtime and/or the possibility that an
>>> upgrade would fail.
>>>
>>> I'm actually curious which distribution companies which rely on
>>> GNU/Linux for their business use. Redhat perhaps? Does Ubuntu provide
>>> any kind of assurance to businesses that there will be no failure and
>>> that direct support will be provided if ever there is?
>>>
>>  From what I've seen at Loewes, they seem to use just the bare bones
>> linux and nothing else.  Obviously, it is all text and the use of curses
>> for screen positioning.  No gui is used, and from examining their
>> cabling, it looks like they are just using a two wire system.
> 
> There is absolutely no way a CLI-only GNU/Linux installation can fail so
> I guess it's not a bad idea. However, I'm mostly referring to any
> company which decides to produce music or graphics using only GNU/Linux.
> Are there any? If so, which is the distribution of choice for them if
> they are unwilling to even CHANCE the possibility of failure?
> 

Well, take WETA (they made Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit) or Industrial 
Light and Magic (they made the Star Wars series).
Both run their programs on linux, WETA to the extend that you can see the 
KDE desktops in their "making of" DVDs. They do not only the server stuff on 
linux, their desktops run it too.

For both of these companies windows would not even be a possibility, their 
stuff depends on the vastly superior clustering linux provides.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240735

FromSilver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c>
Date2014-04-28 18:44 -0400
Message-ID<ljmljn$pn3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#240734
On 2014-04-28 6:37 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> Silver Slimer wrote:
>
>> On 2014-04-28 6:14 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>> On 4/28/2014 3:19 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>> On 2014-04-28 1:58 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>> Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and
>>>>>> Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good
>>>>>> they are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to
>>>>>> change the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved
>>>>>> motherboard?
>>>>>
>>>>> In the professional environment that is the audience for this machine,
>>>>> the simple answer is that you don't dick around with trying to modify
>>>>> a 'Prodution' machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's done is that you go out and buy a second machine w/better specs
>>>>> and run it in parallel to make sure that it is sorted out, and into
>>>>> production.  Once it has proven itself, you retire the old machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doing anything less is cutting corners which means you're playing
>>>>> Russian Roulette with your livelihood.
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, this is also the same basic reason why a Pro won't mess around
>>>>> with Pirated software or Hackintoshes either:  the downside risks of
>>>>> something going wrong are simply too high.
>>>>
>>>> Well stated. I would rather chance an upgrade on an existing machine but
>>>> I have to admit that anyone who relies on a machine for their business
>>>> wouldn't want to risk the downtime and/or the possibility that an
>>>> upgrade would fail.
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually curious which distribution companies which rely on
>>>> GNU/Linux for their business use. Redhat perhaps? Does Ubuntu provide
>>>> any kind of assurance to businesses that there will be no failure and
>>>> that direct support will be provided if ever there is?
>>>>
>>>   From what I've seen at Loewes, they seem to use just the bare bones
>>> linux and nothing else.  Obviously, it is all text and the use of curses
>>> for screen positioning.  No gui is used, and from examining their
>>> cabling, it looks like they are just using a two wire system.
>>
>> There is absolutely no way a CLI-only GNU/Linux installation can fail so
>> I guess it's not a bad idea. However, I'm mostly referring to any
>> company which decides to produce music or graphics using only GNU/Linux.
>> Are there any? If so, which is the distribution of choice for them if
>> they are unwilling to even CHANCE the possibility of failure?
>>
>
> Well, take WETA (they made Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit) or Industrial
> Light and Magic (they made the Star Wars series).
> Both run their programs on linux, WETA to the extend that you can see the
> KDE desktops in their "making of" DVDs. They do not only the server stuff on
> linux, their desktops run it too.
>
> For both of these companies windows would not even be a possibility, their
> stuff depends on the vastly superior clustering linux provides.

I understand that but which is their distribution of choice?

-- 
Silver Slimer
Wikipedia & OpenMedia Supporter

163 Reasons not to deal with Michael "Snit" Glasser, the Prescott 
Computer Guy
http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240741

FromPeter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
Date2014-04-29 01:09 +0200
Message-ID<ljmn2r$35t$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#240735
Silver Slimer wrote:

> On 2014-04-28 6:37 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> Silver Slimer wrote:
>>
>>> On 2014-04-28 6:14 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>> On 4/28/2014 3:19 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>>> On 2014-04-28 1:58 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>> Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and
>>>>>>> Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good
>>>>>>> they are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to
>>>>>>> change the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved
>>>>>>> motherboard?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the professional environment that is the audience for this
>>>>>> machine, the simple answer is that you don't dick around with trying
>>>>>> to modify a 'Prodution' machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's done is that you go out and buy a second machine w/better
>>>>>> specs and run it in parallel to make sure that it is sorted out, and
>>>>>> into
>>>>>> production.  Once it has proven itself, you retire the old machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doing anything less is cutting corners which means you're playing
>>>>>> Russian Roulette with your livelihood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW, this is also the same basic reason why a Pro won't mess around
>>>>>> with Pirated software or Hackintoshes either:  the downside risks of
>>>>>> something going wrong are simply too high.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well stated. I would rather chance an upgrade on an existing machine
>>>>> but I have to admit that anyone who relies on a machine for their
>>>>> business wouldn't want to risk the downtime and/or the possibility
>>>>> that an upgrade would fail.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm actually curious which distribution companies which rely on
>>>>> GNU/Linux for their business use. Redhat perhaps? Does Ubuntu provide
>>>>> any kind of assurance to businesses that there will be no failure and
>>>>> that direct support will be provided if ever there is?
>>>>>
>>>>   From what I've seen at Loewes, they seem to use just the bare bones
>>>> linux and nothing else.  Obviously, it is all text and the use of
>>>> curses
>>>> for screen positioning.  No gui is used, and from examining their
>>>> cabling, it looks like they are just using a two wire system.
>>>
>>> There is absolutely no way a CLI-only GNU/Linux installation can fail so
>>> I guess it's not a bad idea. However, I'm mostly referring to any
>>> company which decides to produce music or graphics using only GNU/Linux.
>>> Are there any? If so, which is the distribution of choice for them if
>>> they are unwilling to even CHANCE the possibility of failure?
>>>
>>
>> Well, take WETA (they made Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit) or
>> Industrial Light and Magic (they made the Star Wars series).
>> Both run their programs on linux, WETA to the extend that you can see the
>> KDE desktops in their "making of" DVDs. They do not only the server stuff
>> on linux, their desktops run it too.
>>
>> For both of these companies windows would not even be a possibility,
>> their stuff depends on the vastly superior clustering linux provides.
> 
> I understand that but which is their distribution of choice?
> 

I don't know and I don't care. Obviously at least WETA uses KDE for the 
desktop, they use RHEL (Redhat) for their machines

All distros derived from Debian (like all the Ubuntus and Mint) are not 
really good at KDE support, but if you know what you are doing you can use 
any distro as underbelly for KDE as the differences lay in the default setup

But you did ask for companies in graphics / music which use linux to produce 
their stuff (and depend on it).
I gave 2 examples of companies which not just use linux but *rely* on it for 
their business, 2 companies which made several of the most impressive movies 
with CGI graphics of the last decades. Note that WETA also made "Avatar", 
one of the most stunning movies of that kind since nearly all of it is CGI

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240750

FromSilver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c>
Date2014-04-28 19:52 -0400
Message-ID<ljmpj1$ga0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#240741
On 2014-04-28 7:09 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

>>> Well, take WETA (they made Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit) or
>>> Industrial Light and Magic (they made the Star Wars series).
>>> Both run their programs on linux, WETA to the extend that you can see the
>>> KDE desktops in their "making of" DVDs. They do not only the server stuff
>>> on linux, their desktops run it too.
>>>
>>> For both of these companies windows would not even be a possibility,
>>> their stuff depends on the vastly superior clustering linux provides.
>>
>> I understand that but which is their distribution of choice?
>>
>
> I don't know and I don't care. Obviously at least WETA uses KDE for the
> desktop, they use RHEL (Redhat) for their machines
>
> All distros derived from Debian (like all the Ubuntus and Mint) are not
> really good at KDE support, but if you know what you are doing you can use
> any distro as underbelly for KDE as the differences lay in the default setup
>
> But you did ask for companies in graphics / music which use linux to produce
> their stuff (and depend on it).
> I gave 2 examples of companies which not just use linux but *rely* on it for
> their business, 2 companies which made several of the most impressive movies
> with CGI graphics of the last decades. Note that WETA also made "Avatar",
> one of the most stunning movies of that kind since nearly all of it is CGI

If it's good enough to produce some of the most remarkable movies of the 
past two decades, I'd have to say that it's worth another look once the 
games start flowing into SteamOS and GNU/Linux.

-- 
Silver Slimer
Wikipedia & OpenMedia Supporter

163 Reasons not to deal with Michael "Snit" Glasser, the Prescott 
Computer Guy
http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240730

FromPeter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
Date2014-04-29 00:26 +0200
Message-ID<ljmkj7$i0v$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#240711
Silver Slimer wrote:

> I'm actually curious which distribution companies which rely on
> GNU/Linux for their business use. Redhat perhaps? 

Yes, they do. And Suse

> Does Ubuntu provide any kind of assurance to businesses that there will be 
> no failure and that direct support will be provided if ever there is?

No. Ubuntu does provide long term support, but it is not really geared at 
big business users. Redhat and Suse address those.
Debian would be fine for business use if they did not follow their sometimes 
boneheaded philosophy (which also makes using their linux version somewhat 
tedious for anyone who isn't a 150% GPL fanboi (wink wink, Hadron Larry))

Both Readhat and Suse also provide a "home user" version of their OS, Fedora 
in Redhats case, and OpenSuse in Suses case. These versions are more 
bleeding edge, and bugs found and repaired there are backported into the 
stable versions of their business systems, making their business systems 
more reliable by having a much greater user base through their home users 
versions

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240768

Fromchrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>
Date2014-04-29 06:54 -0500
Message-ID<vb4vl9d4ash4andb24klu2bj84k8r0ifqn@4ax.com>
In reply to#240730
Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> troll:
>>
>> Does Ubuntu provide any kind of assurance to businesses that there will be 
>> no failure and that direct support will be provided if ever there is?
>
>No. Ubuntu does provide long term support, but it is not really geared at 
>big business users. Redhat and Suse address those.

These trolls don't want much, eh?  Who would expect a gratis product
to have any kind of "assurance" of "no failure" or of "direct
support"?

Reminds me of when the Ezekreep whined that small, community-supported
distros like Puppy Linux have no "iron clad service and performance
guarantee".  

Seriously!  Puppy!  You could not make this stuff up!  What a fsckwit!

-- 
'Do tell IBM, Oracle or Redhat that you want high level "iron clad"
service and performance guarantee for Puppy Linux or Easy Peasy Linux
or Parsix and see of far you get.'  -  trolling fsckwit "Ezekiel"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240687

FromGreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>
Date2014-04-28 12:11 -0600
Message-ID<LM2dnRfQbtpcBMPOnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@bresnan.com>
In reply to#240678
On 4/28/2014 11:37 AM, Silver Slimer wrote:
> On 2014-04-28 1:26 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
> 
>>>> Watch Kohlkopf run. And Slimer with him.
>>>
>>> What am I running from? You want me to build a MacPro machine for less
>>> than Apple charges? I'm not the one who made the statement that it can
>>> be made for less on the PC side, that was Peter. I was only referring to
>>> the laptop side where PC laptops, at the same price range as what Apple
>>> expects for their high-end models, end up getting much better machines.
>>> I can easily prove that if you so desire.
>>>
>> I believe that the mac pro has two cpu sockets for the Xeon processor.
>> Those Xeons aren't cheap.  Neither is the mobo in this case for a
>> regular PC.  I don't know if the regular PC comes with the Intel
>> Thunderbolt ports tho or if a card is made for a PC.  Plus the Xeon
>> can come with up to 12 cores each.  I'm happy with just the i7.
>>
>> On Apple for a developer, the problems start with Apples development
>> tools.  The changes each release are significant enough for one to pull
>> his hair out wondering what changed, and why his earlier program now
>> doesn't work on the new os.  It is one of the reasons I went to windows.
> 
> Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and
> Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good they
> are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to change
> the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved motherboard?
> A PC user doesn't ask these questions because they know that they can
> and that hundreds of different options are constantly at their disposal,
> not just Apple-approved upgrades.
> 
That's true.  Plus if anything breaks on my HP tower, I can easily fix
it.  I had to take down my wifes iMac to an Apple repair shop to replace
the hard drive that only lasted about 3 years.  My old 16 year IBM still
has its original hard drive.  Too bad IBM got out of the PC business.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240714

FromSilver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c>
Date2014-04-28 17:32 -0400
Message-ID<ljmhcl$pv5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#240687
On 2014-04-28 2:11 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
> On 4/28/2014 11:37 AM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>> On 2014-04-28 1:26 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>>>> Watch Kohlkopf run. And Slimer with him.
>>>>
>>>> What am I running from? You want me to build a MacPro machine for less
>>>> than Apple charges? I'm not the one who made the statement that it can
>>>> be made for less on the PC side, that was Peter. I was only referring to
>>>> the laptop side where PC laptops, at the same price range as what Apple
>>>> expects for their high-end models, end up getting much better machines.
>>>> I can easily prove that if you so desire.
>>>>
>>> I believe that the mac pro has two cpu sockets for the Xeon processor.
>>> Those Xeons aren't cheap.  Neither is the mobo in this case for a
>>> regular PC.  I don't know if the regular PC comes with the Intel
>>> Thunderbolt ports tho or if a card is made for a PC.  Plus the Xeon
>>> can come with up to 12 cores each.  I'm happy with just the i7.
>>>
>>> On Apple for a developer, the problems start with Apples development
>>> tools.  The changes each release are significant enough for one to pull
>>> his hair out wondering what changed, and why his earlier program now
>>> doesn't work on the new os.  It is one of the reasons I went to windows.
>>
>> Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and
>> Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good they
>> are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to change
>> the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved motherboard?
>> A PC user doesn't ask these questions because they know that they can
>> and that hundreds of different options are constantly at their disposal,
>> not just Apple-approved upgrades.
>>
> That's true.  Plus if anything breaks on my HP tower, I can easily fix
> it.  I had to take down my wifes iMac to an Apple repair shop to replace
> the hard drive that only lasted about 3 years.  My old 16 year IBM still
> has its original hard drive.  Too bad IBM got out of the PC business.

The easy repair and upgrade process of the PC is the main reason I 
decided to use it as my main gaming console after I retired my PS3. The 
fact that the graphics are a lot better and that the games cost less 
just happen to be the cherry on top. After going through numerous XBOX 
360 defects (1. overheating processor, 2. faulty drive, 3. faulty drive, 
4. RROD) and NOT being able to fix ANY of them on my own, I decided that 
I'd like to be able to replace a defective part if ever anything 
happens. The PC allows that but it happens to be the ONLY thing which 
allows that.

-- 
Silver Slimer
Wikipedia & OpenMedia Supporter

163 Reasons not to deal with Michael "Snit" Glasser, the Prescott 
Computer Guy
http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#240700

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2014-04-28 12:52 -0700
Message-ID<CF83FF9C.35E87%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to#240678
On 4/28/14, 10:37 AM, in article ljm3lf$9sk$3@dont-email.me, "Silver Slimer"
<slvrslmr@lv.c> wrote:

> On 2014-04-28 1:26 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
> 
>>>> Watch Kohlkopf run. And Slimer with him.
>>> 
>>> What am I running from? You want me to build a MacPro machine for less
>>> than Apple charges? I'm not the one who made the statement that it can
>>> be made for less on the PC side, that was Peter. I was only referring to
>>> the laptop side where PC laptops, at the same price range as what Apple
>>> expects for their high-end models, end up getting much better machines.
>>> I can easily prove that if you so desire.
>>> 
>> I believe that the mac pro has two cpu sockets for the Xeon processor.
>> Those Xeons aren't cheap.  Neither is the mobo in this case for a
>> regular PC.  I don't know if the regular PC comes with the Intel
>> Thunderbolt ports tho or if a card is made for a PC.  Plus the Xeon
>> can come with up to 12 cores each.  I'm happy with just the i7.
>> 
>> On Apple for a developer, the problems start with Apples development
>> tools.  The changes each release are significant enough for one to pull
>> his hair out wondering what changed, and why his earlier program now
>> doesn't work on the new os.  It is one of the reasons I went to windows.
> 
> Poor development tools are but ONE reason to migrate from OS X and
> Apple. The other is the fact that the machines, no matter how good they
> are, suffer from terrible upgrade options. What if you want to change
> the GPUs or the processors? Can you? What about an improved motherboard?
> A PC user doesn't ask these questions because they know that they can
> and that hundreds of different options are constantly at their disposal,
> not just Apple-approved upgrades.

If internal upgrades are a deciding factor for you your point is a valid
one. No doubt. But for most people they never do such updates.


-- 
* Mint MATE: Trash, Panel, Menu:    <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint / LibreOffice:               <http://youtu.be/USU9iqppfto>
* Win 8 / Word 2013:                <http://youtu.be/z8gUL2TCcV4>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>


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#240706

From-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
Date2014-04-28 14:05 -0700
Message-ID<3272c797-d374-44b0-89db-c9f76227fe4c@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#240675
GreyCloud wrote:
> 
> I believe that the mac pro has two cpu sockets 
> for the Xeon processor.

The old MP did, but I don't recall reading this 
about the new one ... its possible, but I suspect
possibly not, as Apple isn't offering to sell any
dual-CPU configurations. 

> Those Xeons aren't cheap. 

Plus the future isn't really CPU cores anymore, but
workloading GPUs:  I believe that the age of having
dual CPUs in order to get more cores is coming to a 
close, particularly since Intel now also has a Xeon
with IIRC 12 cores on a single CPU.  

> Neither is the mobo in this case for a regular PC. 
> I don't know if the regular PC comes with the Intel
> Thunderbolt ports tho or if a card is made for a PC. 

There's been some discussion of Intel offering what
would basically be a PCIe expansion card to provide
Thunderbolt onto (some?) legacy motherboards...but 
with the advent of Thunderbolt-2, it is sounding to
be a moot point to a degree:  the real professional
grade alternatives to TB appear to be things like
Fibre Channel, which aren't cheap either.


> On Apple for a developer, the problems start 
> with Apples development tools.  The changes each 
> release are significant enough for one to pull
> his hair out wondering what changed, and why 
> his earlier program now doesn't work on the new os. 
> It is one of the reasons I went to windows.

Indeed; I've even had some longstanding Applescripts 
which are now no longer even compatible with Apple's 
own calendar App which was being used as their scheduler. 
That kind of stuff is basic and simply should not be broken. 


-hh

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#240707

FromGreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>
Date2014-04-28 15:11 -0600
Message-ID<uKCdndIIK4VhXsPOnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@bresnan.com>
In reply to#240706
On 4/28/2014 3:05 PM, -hh wrote:
> GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>> I believe that the mac pro has two cpu sockets 
>> for the Xeon processor.
> 
> The old MP did, but I don't recall reading this 
> about the new one ... its possible, but I suspect
> possibly not, as Apple isn't offering to sell any
> dual-CPU configurations. 
> 

I see that Intel offers a 12 core Xeon, so a dual socket mobo isn't needed.

>> Those Xeons aren't cheap. 
> 
> Plus the future isn't really CPU cores anymore, but
> workloading GPUs:  I believe that the age of having
> dual CPUs in order to get more cores is coming to a 
> close, particularly since Intel now also has a Xeon
> with IIRC 12 cores on a single CPU.  
> 

I think that's pretty much the limits on cpu design.  There is only so
far one can take that technology.  The next step, I believe, is quantum
cpus if that ever comes to fruition.
OpenCL seems to fit the bill in getting the gpus to do a lot of the work.

>> Neither is the mobo in this case for a regular PC. 
>> I don't know if the regular PC comes with the Intel
>> Thunderbolt ports tho or if a card is made for a PC. 
> 
> There's been some discussion of Intel offering what
> would basically be a PCIe expansion card to provide
> Thunderbolt onto (some?) legacy motherboards...but 
> with the advent of Thunderbolt-2, it is sounding to
> be a moot point to a degree:  the real professional
> grade alternatives to TB appear to be things like
> Fibre Channel, which aren't cheap either.
> 
> 
>> On Apple for a developer, the problems start 
>> with Apples development tools.  The changes each 
>> release are significant enough for one to pull
>> his hair out wondering what changed, and why 
>> his earlier program now doesn't work on the new os. 
>> It is one of the reasons I went to windows.
> 
> Indeed; I've even had some longstanding Applescripts 
> which are now no longer even compatible with Apple's 
> own calendar App which was being used as their scheduler. 
> That kind of stuff is basic and simply should not be broken. 
> 

Well, Apple will learn in their own way what sells and what really doesn't.
I'm still waiting to see if they'll ever get the bugs out of llvm. I've
seen the Xcode mailing list contain a lot of gripes about the bugs in
llvm lately.

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