Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.mobile.android > #154381 > unrolled thread

contacts

Back to article view | Back to comp.mobile.android

Contents

  contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-09 18:33 +0200
    Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-09 18:02 +0100
      Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-09 20:08 +0200
        Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-10 11:26 +0100
          Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-10 12:49 +0200
          Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-10 15:30 +0200
    Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-09 19:26 +0200
      Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-09 19:30 +0200
        Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-09 20:10 +0200
          Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-09 22:21 +0200
            Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-10 12:50 +0200
              Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-10 15:32 +0200
          Re: contacts Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-11 08:50 +0100
            Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-11 12:25 +0200
              Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-12 09:59 +0200
            Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 19:31 -0400
              Re: contacts Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-14 17:33 +0100
                Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-14 13:25 -0400
                  Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-14 17:01 -0400
        Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-10 13:18 +0200
          Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-10 13:38 +0000
            Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-10 16:49 +0200
              Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-10 18:32 +0100
                Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-10 18:05 +0000
                Re: contacts Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> - 2026-07-10 19:12 +0100
                  Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-11 18:37 +0100
                Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-12 11:58 +0200
                  Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 19:36 -0400
                    Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 19:44 -0400
      Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-10 13:16 +0200
    Re: contacts "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-09 22:17 +0200
      Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-09 22:22 +0200
        Re: contacts "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-10 11:12 +0200
          Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-10 11:33 +0200
            Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-10 13:22 +0200
              Re: contacts "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-10 17:53 +0200
        Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-10 13:20 +0200
          Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 00:03 -0400
            Re: contacts ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-12 07:42 +0000
              Re: contacts Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 09:44 +0100
                Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-12 13:49 +0200
                  Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-12 16:18 +0000
                    Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-12 22:11 +0200
                      Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-12 21:31 +0000
                        Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 21:05 -0400
                          Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-13 01:52 +0000
                            Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-13 02:26 -0400
                              Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-13 16:50 +0000
                                Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-13 20:04 +0000
                                  Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-13 21:17 +0000
                            Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-13 17:00 +0100
                              Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-13 17:00 +0000
                                Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-13 18:10 +0100
                                  Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-13 17:48 +0000
                        Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-13 19:57 +0000
                          Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-14 12:45 +0100
                            Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-14 14:07 +0000
                              Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-14 15:28 +0100
                                Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-14 15:45 +0000
                          Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-14 16:06 +0200
              Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-12 12:04 +0200
            Re: contacts Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 09:53 +0100
            Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-12 12:01 +0200
        Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-10 16:10 +0000
          Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 00:03 -0400
    Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-11 23:53 -0400

Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →

#154426

On 2026-07-12 10:44, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-07-12, Stefan Ram wrote:
> 
>> Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote or quoted:
>>> The debilitating drawback of the Pixel, for me, is the lack of sd card but
>>> I understand that if I buy way too much storage, that isn't then an issue.
>>
>>    I want an SD slot, too, but for a different reason: The SD
>>    card is my data storage. I buy a new phone, plug in the SD
>>    card from the old phone, and have all my data again!
> 
> Yeah, that touches on the same thing that occurred to me: it's not
> merely another storage device and an upgradeable one (also one that can
> be replaced in case of wear, although I'd expect the internal one to
> meet much higher levels of resiliency for that to be an issue), it's
> also a way to move/copy files when needed.

I tested a tablet recently, and bought a tablet from a different brand 
recently. Both said that the tablet had to be powered off before 
insertion of the card, and warned that the card could be formatted 
before use.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154427

On 7/12/26 4:49 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>I tested a tablet recently, and bought a tablet from a different brand 
>recently. Both said that the tablet had to be powered off before 
>insertion of the card, and warned that the card could be formatted 
>before use.

Powered completely off? I don't remember about the formatting since I
 haven't bought a new card in years but I routinely plug in cards to my
 various Android toys while they are asleep and upon awakening they ask how
 I want to use the card and after I make my choice they say it's ready to
 go. No problems. I do get a warning if I do that while awake but so far
 (knocks on wood) even that indiscretion has caused me no problems. But then
 my cards contain mostly music and old apks (like my favorite Groundhog
 newsreader) so maybe other stuff would be damaged??

Time to do some card experiments on your new toys and report back...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154430

On 2026-07-12 18:18, AJL wrote:
> On 7/12/26 4:49 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> I tested a tablet recently, and bought a tablet from a different brand 
>> recently. Both said that the tablet had to be powered off before 
>> insertion of the card, and warned that the card could be formatted 
>> before use.
> 
> Powered completely off? 

Yes. At least whatever the tablet can do when you push the power button 
and select power off. The battery can not be removed, after all.

> I don't remember about the formatting since I
> haven't bought a new card in years but I routinely plug in cards to my
> various Android toys while they are asleep and upon awakening they ask how
> I want to use the card and after I make my choice they say it's ready to
> go. No problems. I do get a warning if I do that while awake but so far
> (knocks on wood) even that indiscretion has caused me no problems. But then
> my cards contain mostly music and old apks (like my favorite Groundhog
> newsreader) so maybe other stuff would be damaged??
> 
> Time to do some card experiments on your new toys and report back...

In the past I introduced SIM cards or memory cards while fully on, no 
problem. The warning in the new tablet surprised me.

My card was not formatted, but the warning is there. If the tablet 
doesn't like the card, I assume it will format it. I hope it asks first.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154431

On 7/12/26 1:11 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>On 2026-07-12 18:18, AJL wrote:
>> On 7/12/26 4:49 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> 
>>> I tested a tablet recently, and bought a tablet from a different brand 
>>> recently. Both said that the tablet had to be powered off before 
>>> insertion of the card, and warned that the card could be formatted 
>>> before use.
>> 
>> Powered completely off? 
>
>Yes. At least whatever the tablet can do when you push the power button 
>and select power off. The battery can not be removed, after all.

Yep, that's what I meant. All my tabs and phone give 'power off' as an
 option when holding down the power button but of course we all know that's
 not technically true but then calling it semi power off might be worse... 
 8-/

>> I don't remember about the formatting since I
>> haven't bought a new card in years but I routinely plug in cards to my
>> various Android toys while they are asleep and upon awakening they ask how
>> I want to use the card and after I make my choice they say it's ready to
>> go. No problems. I do get a warning if I do that while awake but so far
>> (knocks on wood) even that indiscretion has caused me no problems. But then
>> my cards contain mostly music and old apks (like my favorite Groundhog
>> newsreader) so maybe other stuff would be damaged??
>> 
>> Time to do some card experiments on your new toys and report back...
>
>In the past I introduced SIM cards or memory cards while fully on, no 
>problem. The warning in the new tablet surprised me.

I haven't stuck in a sim card in almost 7 years so dunno about that. But as
 I said when I've inserted a card with the device on, it just warned me with
 no apparent consequences.

>My card was not formatted, but the warning is there. If the tablet 
>doesn't like the card, I assume it will format it. I hope it asks first.

I have always used a card to transfer stuff to the tablet or to use as
 external storage (like my music collection for tablet listening - earphones
 of course as the speakers ain't so great...) so it has already been
 formatted and loaded beforehand. I'd try sticking in an unformatted card
 just to see what it would do but don't have any. My guess is just a failure
 warning. If you have an unformatted one sitting around give it a try on
 your new toys and let us know...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154435

AJL wrote:
>  If you have an unformatted one sitting around

I haven't tested it fully, but in the past I had a 32GB card for my 64GB
Galaxy and then when I put in a 64GB card which had a complete copy of the
file system, it didn't recognize everything (like app maps stored there).

Then I got smart(er). 

I formatted the card, when it was still brand new, to a volume label of
0000-0001 and I put a top-level directory of 0000 on it (so I could tell
which sd card it is at a glance since that's the first directory seen).

When I added the 128GB sd card, I formatted it the same and copied the top
level 0001 directory, and it seemed perfect as the phone didn't even blink.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154436

On 7/12/26 6:05 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
>AJL wrote:

>>  If you have an unformatted one sitting around

>I haven't tested it fully, but in the past I had a 32GB card for my 64GB
>Galaxy and then when I put in a 64GB card which had a complete copy of the
>file system, it didn't recognize everything (like app maps stored there).

This Amazon Fire HD10 tablet I'm posting with will only accept up to a 32GB
 card. Anything larger won't work. Surprising for Amazon's latest tablet
 model. But then the Fire OS is a bit behind in the Android department also.
 Check my headers but last I looked my PhoNews newsreader thinks it's
 Android 11.

But it's still my favorite (Android) tablet among all my toys. It's very
 light with rounded corners making it very comfortable to hold for extended
 periods with fat bezels for fat fingers, and a great FHD screen with
 reasonable speed. Course you have to install Google stuff on it as the
 Amazon AppStore sucks. But that's an easy mod, Google for details. Consider
 this a group recommendation as I doubt Maria would go for it...  ;)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154437

AJL wrote:
>>I haven't tested it fully, but in the past I had a 32GB card for my 64GB
>>Galaxy and then when I put in a 64GB card which had a complete copy of the
>>file system, it didn't recognize everything (like app maps stored there).
> 
> This Amazon Fire HD10 tablet I'm posting with will only accept up to a 32GB
>  card. Anything larger won't work. Surprising for Amazon's latest tablet
>  model. But then the Fire OS is a bit behind in the Android department also.
>  Check my headers but last I looked my PhoNews newsreader thinks it's
>  Android 11.
> 
> But it's still my favorite (Android) tablet among all my toys. It's very
>  light with rounded corners making it very comfortable to hold for extended
>  periods with fat bezels for fat fingers, and a great FHD screen with
>  reasonable speed. Course you have to install Google stuff on it as the
>  Amazon AppStore sucks. But that's an easy mod, Google for details. Consider
>  this a group recommendation as I doubt Maria would go for it...  ;)

We're all different! 
You know me well.

It's good to know about your Amazone Fire and how you keep it working for
you. I'm also surprised at the sd card limitation. Seems unnatural to me.
 Fire HD 10 (2017) - supports microSD up to 256 GB 
 Fire HD 10 (2019) - supports microSD up to 512 GB 
 Fire HD 10 (2021 refresh) - supports microSD up to 1 TB 
 Fire HD 10 (2023) - supports microSDXC up to 1024 GB (1 TB)	 
 etc.

I have a Samsung tablet that I got back after gifting it to an iPad owner
whom I didn't convert to Android, so I'm learning about Android 16 now.

After writing scripts to control my Samsung phone, I'm getting soured on
the non-AOSP aspect of Samsung's Android, but you feel it too with Amazon.

Best, likely, is a Pixel as it's AOSP. 
If only they'd allow an sd slot.

Samsung Tab A-series or S-series (still have microSD slots) but apparently
the fifty cents of sdcard hardware must be too much for Google to afford.	
-- 
Usenet is for good Internet friends to discuss their hardware choices.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154439

On 7/12/26 11:26 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
>AJL wrote:


>> This Amazon Fire HD10 tablet I'm posting with will only accept up to a 32GB

>It's good to know about your Amazone Fire and how you keep it working for
>you. I'm also surprised at the sd card limitation. Seems unnatural to me.

> Fire HD 10 (2023) - supports microSDXC up to 1024 GB (1 TB)	 

Interesting. That turned out to be right. Apparently this tablet didn't like
 my 64GB cards for some reason and I just assumed that it didn't take
 anything larger. You know the definition of ASSUME, right?

I really don't need more than the installed 32GB card so won't change
 anything for now.

>I have a Samsung tablet that I got back after gifting it to an iPad owner
>whom I didn't convert to Android, so I'm learning about Android 16 now.

I'm down to 4 tablets (3 Fire tabs and a Lenovo Tab One) and a Chromebook.
 No Windows or iOS stuff, and getting along just fine (temporarily of
 course)...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154444

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> On 7/12/26 11:26 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
> >AJL wrote:
> 
> >> This Amazon Fire HD10 tablet I'm posting with will only accept up to a 32GB
> 
> >It's good to know about your Amazone Fire and how you keep it working for
> >you. I'm also surprised at the sd card limitation. Seems unnatural to me.
> 
> > Fire HD 10 (2023) - supports microSDXC up to 1024 GB (1 TB)    
> 
> Interesting. That turned out to be right. Apparently this tablet didn't like
>  my 64GB cards for some reason and I just assumed that it didn't take
>  anything larger. You know the definition of ASSUME, right?

  If it's a rather old 64GB card, it might be a non-standard card.
Before the SDXC (>32GB) standard, some manufacturer already made 64GB
cards. These were non-standard and will give problems in devices which
expect SDXC cards.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SD_card#Capacity_standards>

> I really don't need more than the installed 32GB card so won't change
>  anything for now.

[...]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154445

On 7/13/26 1:04 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>> On 7/12/26 11:26 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:

>> This Amazon Fire HD10 tablet I'm posting with will only accept up to a 32GB
 
>>> It's good to know about your Amazon Fire and how you keep it working for
>>> you. I'm also surprised at the sd card limitation. Seems unnatural to me.
>>> Fire HD 10 (2023) - supports microSDXC up to 1024 GB (1 TB)    
 
>> Interesting. That turned out to be right. Apparently this tablet didn't like
>> my 64GB cards for some reason and I just assumed that it didn't take
>> anything larger. You know the definition of ASSUME, right?

> If it's a rather old 64GB card, it might be a non-standard card.
> Before the SDXC (>32GB) standard, some manufacturer already made 64GB
> cards. These were non-standard and will give problems in devices which
> expect SDXC cards.
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SD_card#Capacity_standards>

The same 64GB card that my Amazon Fire HD10 tablet refused worked fine when
 I installed it in my Lenovo Tab One tablet. Perhaps that was why I thought
 the Fire tablet was limited. In any case all my current toys are working to
 my satisfaction so I think I'll just leave well enough alone. Thanks all...
 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154438

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> On 7/12/26 6:05 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
> >AJL wrote:
> 
> >>  If you have an unformatted one sitting around
> 
> >I haven't tested it fully, but in the past I had a 32GB card for my 64GB
> >Galaxy and then when I put in a 64GB card which had a complete copy of the
> >file system, it didn't recognize everything (like app maps stored there).
> 
> This Amazon Fire HD10 tablet I'm posting with will only accept up to a 32GB
>  card. Anything larger won't work. Surprising for Amazon's latest tablet
>  model. But then the Fire OS is a bit behind in the Android department also.
>  Check my headers but last I looked my PhoNews newsreader thinks it's
>  Android 11.

Try (on Windows/Mac/etc) reformatting your card to FAT32.  

'SDHC' cards up to 32GB are formatted FAT32, 'SDXC' cards above 32GB are
exFAT - the only difference is the formatting it comes out of the box with,
there's no hardware barrier at 32GB.

Some devices don't support exFAT (either too old or they didn't want to pay
a royalty to Microsoft).  But FAT32 itself has no 32GB limit, so if you
reformat it on Windows the tablet may be happy with it.

(also be aware FAT32 has a 4GiB file size limit, so if you're storing long
videos on the card that may be an issue)

Theo

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154440

On 7/13/26 9:00 AM, Theo wrote:
>AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>> On 7/12/26 6:05 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
>> >AJL wrote:
>> 
>> >>  If you have an unformatted one sitting around
>> 
>> >I haven't tested it fully, but in the past I had a 32GB card for my 64GB
>> >Galaxy and then when I put in a 64GB card which had a complete copy of the
>> >file system, it didn't recognize everything (like app maps stored there).
>> 
>> This Amazon Fire HD10 tablet I'm posting with will only accept up to a 32GB
>>  card. Anything larger won't work. Surprising for Amazon's latest tablet
>>  model. But then the Fire OS is a bit behind in the Android department also.
>>  Check my headers but last I looked my PhoNews newsreader thinks it's
>>  Android 11.
>
>Try (on Windows/Mac/etc) reformatting your card to FAT32.  
>
>'SDHC' cards up to 32GB are formatted FAT32, 'SDXC' cards above 32GB are
>exFAT - the only difference is the formatting it comes out of the box with,
>there's no hardware barrier at 32GB.
>
>Some devices don't support exFAT (either too old or they didn't want to pay
>a royalty to Microsoft).  But FAT32 itself has no 32GB limit, so if you
>reformat it on Windows the tablet may be happy with it.
>
>(also be aware FAT32 has a 4GiB file size limit, so if you're storing long
>videos on the card that may be an issue)

Thanks. That may well be the problem. I'll give it a try when I need more
 card storage on this Fire HD10 tablet and acquire more toys that can
 accomplish the reformatting...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154441

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> Thanks. That may well be the problem. I'll give it a try when I need more
>  card storage on this Fire HD10 tablet and acquire more toys that can
>  accomplish the reformatting...

Your Chromebook can do it:
https://support-en.sandisk.com/app/answers/detailweb/a_id/43506/~/instructions-to-format-a-usb-flash-drive-or-memory-card-on-chromebook

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154442

On 7/13/26 10:10 AM, Theo wrote:
>AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>> Thanks. That may well be the problem. I'll give it a try when I need more
>>  card storage on this Fire HD10 tablet and acquire more toys that can
>>  accomplish the reformatting...
>
>Your Chromebook can do it:
>https://support-en.sandisk.com/app/answers/detailweb/a_id/43506/~/instructions-to-format-a-usb-flash-drive-or-memory-card-on-chromebook

Ah. Didn't know that. Thanks...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154443

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
[...]
> I have always used a card to transfer stuff to the tablet or to use as
>  external storage (like my music collection for tablet listening - earphones
>  of course as the speakers ain't so great...) so it has already been
>  formatted and loaded beforehand. I'd try sticking in an unformatted card
>  just to see what it would do but don't have any. My guess is just a failure
>  warning. If you have an unformatted one sitting around give it a try on
>  your new toys and let us know...

  Minor, but in this context  important, nit: There is no such thing as
"an unformatted card". An SD card can be formatted with the
wrong/undesired filesystem or the formatting might be partly broken,
etc., but it's not unformatted. I.e. when you buy one, it's already
formatted.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154446

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> [...]
> > I have always used a card to transfer stuff to the tablet or to use as
> >  external storage (like my music collection for tablet listening - earphones
> >  of course as the speakers ain't so great...) so it has already been
> >  formatted and loaded beforehand. I'd try sticking in an unformatted card
> >  just to see what it would do but don't have any. My guess is just a failure
> >  warning. If you have an unformatted one sitting around give it a try on
> >  your new toys and let us know...
> 
>   Minor, but in this context  important, nit: There is no such thing as
> "an unformatted card". An SD card can be formatted with the
> wrong/undesired filesystem or the formatting might be partly broken,
> etc., but it's not unformatted. I.e. when you buy one, it's already
> formatted.

Not in the original sense of a floppy coming out of the factory without any
magnetic data on the medium - 'formatting' meant creating the magnetic
sector boundaries, checksums, etc something you had to do before you even
thought about writing data into the sectors.

But 'unformatted' has become a synonym for 'not having valid partition(s)'. 
That's what 'Format' in Windows will do - create a partition table and a
partition with an empty filesystem on it.  If you still have a floppy it
will also write the sector boundaries, but once done it creates the
filesystem just like any other device.  The 'Format' tool (and the verb
'format') covers both operations, with modern media needing one but not the
other.

So it's outdated nit really. The term encompasses more than it previously
did.

Theo

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154448

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> > > I have always used a card to transfer stuff to the tablet or to
> > > use as external storage (like my music collection for tablet
> > > listening - earphones of course as the speakers ain't so great...)
> > > so it has already been formatted and loaded beforehand. I'd try
> > > sticking in an unformatted card just to see what it would do but
> > > don't have any. My guess is just a failure warning. If you have an
> > > unformatted one sitting around give it a try on your new toys and
> > > let us know...
> > 
> >   Minor, but in this context  important, nit: There is no such thing as
> > "an unformatted card". An SD card can be formatted with the
> > wrong/undesired filesystem or the formatting might be partly broken,
> > etc., but it's not unformatted. I.e. when you buy one, it's already
> > formatted.
> 
> Not in the original sense of a floppy coming out of the factory without any
> magnetic data on the medium - 'formatting' meant creating the magnetic
> sector boundaries, checksums, etc something you had to do before you even
> thought about writing data into the sectors.

  True, with the addition that for (3.5") *diskettes*, you could later
buy them pre-formatted (with a FAT-filesystem).

> But 'unformatted' has become a synonym for 'not having valid partition(s)'. 
> That's what 'Format' in Windows will do - create a partition table and a
> partition with an empty filesystem on it.

  These days, it's hardly possible to buy a storage medium/device 'not
having valid partition(s)'. It might not have the partition(s) one
*wants* or/and not the filesystems (in those partitions) one *wants*,
but it *does* have a valid partition and a filesystem in that partition.

>					     If you still have a floppy it
> will also write the sector boundaries, but once done it creates the
> filesystem just like any other device.  The 'Format' tool (and the verb
> 'format') covers both operations, with modern media needing one but not the
> other.
> 
> So it's outdated nit really. The term encompasses more than it previously
> did.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154449

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> > But 'unformatted' has become a synonym for 'not having valid partition(s)'. 
> > That's what 'Format' in Windows will do - create a partition table and a
> > partition with an empty filesystem on it.
> 
>   These days, it's hardly possible to buy a storage medium/device 'not
> having valid partition(s)'. It might not have the partition(s) one
> *wants* or/and not the filesystems (in those partitions) one *wants*,
> but it *does* have a valid partition and a filesystem in that partition.

You can 'wipe' a storage device by deleting its partition table, and then
when you plug it in Windows gives you a message 'You need to format the disk
in drive D: before you can use it'.  Of course it's not a real wipe as data
is still there to be recovered.

It is common to do a full wipe with zeroes to make sure no data is hiding on
a disk before giving it to someone else.  If you hand it over without
creating a new partition table, it's 'unformatted'.

If you buy a SATA HDD or NVMe, it's common for them to be completely blank
with no partition table.  If you're installing an OS a existing partition
table is just a hindrance you have to delete, otherwise the installer might
get confused.

Theo

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154450

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
[...]

> It is common to do a full wipe with zeroes to make sure no data is hiding on
> a disk before giving it to someone else.  If you hand it over without
> creating a new partition table, it's 'unformatted'.

  I use diskpart's 'clean all' command for that purpose. Mainly to
dispose of no longer useful laptops, in which case I run diskpart from a
Macrium Reflect 'Rescue Media' USB memory-stick, so I can also wipe the
C: partition without crashing the running OS.

> If you buy a SATA HDD or NVMe, it's common for them to be completely blank
> with no partition table.  If you're installing an OS a existing partition
> table is just a hindrance you have to delete, otherwise the installer might
> get confused.

  Yes, that was probably the case for the 4TB SATA disk which I bought
together with my 'empty' (Synology) NAS. I don't *know* if it was
completely blank with no partition table, but it probably was.

  To put all of this back on topic: I used my Android phone to make
pictures/videos of these wiping/installation procedures! :-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#154447

Frank Slootweg, 2026-07-13 21:57:

> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> [...]
>> I have always used a card to transfer stuff to the tablet or to use as
>>  external storage (like my music collection for tablet listening - earphones
>>  of course as the speakers ain't so great...) so it has already been
>>  formatted and loaded beforehand. I'd try sticking in an unformatted card
>>  just to see what it would do but don't have any. My guess is just a failure
>>  warning. If you have an unformatted one sitting around give it a try on
>>  your new toys and let us know...
> 
>   Minor, but in this context  important, nit: There is no such thing as
> "an unformatted card". An SD card can be formatted with the
> wrong/undesired filesystem or the formatting might be partly broken,
> etc., but it's not unformatted. I.e. when you buy one, it's already
> formatted.

To be precise: SD cards are flash media. And this kind of media is not
"formatted" at all, it's just flash storage which can be completely
empty or it contains a filesystem with data. But to write data or to
create a new file system you don't have to "format" it.

The concept of reak "formatting" a media comes from magnetic media like
floppy disks or old very old MFM/RLL hard disks before we had IDE, which
required to have sector information written to it, before you can create
a file system on it - so the medium has a sector format. The procedure
to format hard disks this was also called "low level format" in contrast
to write a new file system. It is just MS-DOS which also used "format"
as command, but formatting and creating a file system are two separate
things. Microsoft once also used a special higher density format for the
Windows 95 installation floppy disks which had more sectors per
cylinder, so the disks could store a bit more data.

A medium which needs formatting, before it can be used is also called
"soft sectored" since the sector boundaries are not defined by the
hardware but only by the sector identification written to the disk.
Modern hard disks get the secore information written in the factory and
they don't support "low level format" at all and just ignore this. On
the other hand, if the sector data ever gets lost, the hard disk is not
usable any longer.

In Linux there are two separate tools to format floppy disks, like
ufiformat and mkdosfs, but MS-DOS and Windows usually combined both in
one single operation to write new sectors and create the file system
afterwards.

However, over the decades "formatting" a media became a synonym for
creating a new empty file system.


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.mobile.android

csiph-web