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Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today

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  Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> - 2024-05-31 17:20 -0400
    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-31 14:21 -0700
      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2024-06-01 12:06 +0100
      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-01 14:18 +0100
        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-06-02 00:00 -0400
          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-02 08:34 +0100
            Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-02 19:45 +0000
              Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-06-02 16:49 -0400
                Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-02 22:39 +0100
                  Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-06-02 18:17 -0400
                    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-03 12:48 +0100
                  Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2024-06-03 12:16 +1200
                    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-03 07:19 +0100
                      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> - 2024-06-03 12:12 -0400
          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-06-03 14:20 +0200
    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-05-31 19:27 -0400
      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2024-06-01 18:39 +1200
        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-06-02 00:03 -0400
          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-06-02 07:18 +0200
    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-06-01 08:05 +0200
      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-06-02 00:06 -0400
        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-06-02 07:05 +0200
          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-06-02 11:25 -0400
    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 11:43 +0000
    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-01 08:50 -0400
      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-01 14:24 +0100
        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-01 10:37 -0400
          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> - 2024-06-01 11:11 -0400
            Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-01 13:43 -0400
              Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-01 19:26 +0100
                Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2024-06-01 20:15 +0100
                  Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Peter <confused@nospam.net> - 2024-06-02 00:23 +0100
                    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 22:37 -0700
                      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-02 08:57 -0400
                        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Peter <confused@nospam.net> - 2024-06-02 19:00 +0100
                          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Alan Browne <singularity@blackhole.org> - 2024-06-02 15:20 -0400
                            Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Peter <confused@nospam.net> - 2024-06-02 20:24 +0100
                              Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-02 21:44 -0400
                                Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Peter <confused@nospam.net> - 2024-06-03 03:42 +0100
                                  Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 07:17 +0000
                                    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-03 08:34 +0100
                                      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-03 09:08 +0000
                                        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-03 10:36 +0100
                                          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-03 11:01 +0000
                                      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-03 09:32 +0000
                                        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-03 10:45 +0100
                                          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-03 11:10 +0000
                                            Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 14:52 +0000
                                              Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-06-03 17:43 +0200
                                                Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 18:01 +0000
                                                  Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-03 21:03 +0000
                                                    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 08:58 +0000
                                                      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-04 11:45 +0000
                                                        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 16:11 +0000
                                                          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-04 16:53 +0000
                                                    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-06-11 17:19 +0200
                                          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-03 09:08 -0400
                                            Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-03 20:13 +0000
                                              Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-04 05:19 +0000
                                                Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-06-11 17:21 +0200
                                                  Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-06-11 16:47 +0000
                                              Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2024-06-04 09:55 +0100
                                                Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-04 11:51 +0000
                                          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-06-03 17:43 +0200
                                            Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-03 20:42 +0000
                                              Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-03 20:53 +0000
                                  Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-03 08:08 -0400
                                Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-03 07:21 +0100
                                  Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-03 08:13 -0400
                                    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Peter <confused@nospam.net> - 2024-06-04 06:20 +0100
                                      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-04 07:19 +0100
                                        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-04 08:09 -0400
                                          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-04 13:31 +0100
                                            Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-04 08:53 -0400
                                              Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-04 14:22 +0100
                                              Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 16:01 +0000
                                                Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-04 17:14 +0100
                                                  Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-04 16:48 +0000
                                                    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-04 18:38 +0100
                                                      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-06-05 04:49 +0000
                                                    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-06-04 16:58 -0400
                          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-02 22:50 +0100
                      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> - 2024-06-02 19:41 +0200
                        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Alan Browne <singularity@blackhole.org> - 2024-06-02 15:18 -0400
                          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> - 2024-06-02 21:31 +0200
                        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-06-02 22:28 -0400
                  Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-01 20:26 -0400
                    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2024-06-02 09:04 +0100
          Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-01 16:13 +0100
      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-03 16:25 +0100
        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-06-03 18:08 +0100
        Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-06-03 16:14 -0400
    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 11:56 -0700
      Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> - 2024-06-02 15:36 -0400
    Re: Turn your device completely off once a week as per advice from the NSA today Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-06-03 14:18 +0200

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#141734

Chris wrote:

> Peter wrote:
>
>> 2. The bluetooth radios turn back on despite you turning them off.
> 
> Not true on ios. You can turn it off permanently.

The auto turning back on is only present in Android 15, which isn't out 
of beta yet, things could change.

If people want to disable these new features, that's fine, but it should 
prevent them from benefitting from the new features.  If you don't want 
to contribute to the findmydevice network that's OK, but don't expect to 
be able to use the findmydevice network when/if you lose your own phone ...

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#141740

Andy Burns wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 08:34:21 +0100 :

> Chris wrote:
> 
>> Peter wrote:
>>
>>> 2. The bluetooth radios turn back on despite you turning them off.
>> 
>> Not true on ios. You can turn it off permanently.
> 
> The auto turning back on is only present in Android 15, which isn't out 
> of beta yet, things could change.
> 
> If people want to disable these new features, that's fine, but it should 
> prevent them from benefitting from the new features.  If you don't want 
> to contribute to the findmydevice network that's OK, but don't expect to 
> be able to use the findmydevice network when/if you lose your own phone ...

I realize most people do exactly what marketing tells them to do, like
sheep led to slaughter - but for the few people who are intelligent, this
comment below will resonate (but it will NOT resonate with the morons).

A phone is a commodity, which most of us get for free or for extremely low
costs (e.g., T-Mobile gave everyone in the USA on their postpaid plan a
free phone who wanted it - see my note below copied in the sig proving it).

If we lose it, big deal. We lose a free phone. There's no real loss there.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg>

All personal data that is of security implications (e.g., financial
information and password information) is in encrypted containers) so
there's no loss there given the sd card is backed up frequently to the PC.

We don't even lose our apps or our data since it's trivial to backup &
restore where even the EXACT location in our folders is replicated to the
new phone, as are all the EXACT apps and the EXACT versions of those apps
(even if those versions are no longer available in the respective repos).

My point is that losing the phone is nothing. It's not even inconvenient.
There's no loss of data. There's not even a cost to replace it.

But losing your privacy by being tracked every moment of the day is a big
loss, and that is what happens with the bluetooth tracking of Google/Apple.
-- 
Bearing in mind that Android updates in discrete layers; not as a monolith.
<https://source.android.com/static/docs/core/architecture/images/modular_system_components_arch.png>

Today I received yet another update which updated my Galaxy A32-5G to
 *Security Patch Level: May 1, 2024*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/dtjXVrTY/update.jpg>

History:
The US Samsung Galaxy A32-5G debuted in January of 2021.

I received a handful for free in April of 2021 one of which is the one I
use most, which was twice replaced for free as I mess with phones a lot.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg>

It came with Android 11 but it was updated to 12 and then to Android 13.
I'm not sure if it's updatable to Android 14 though (how would I know?).

As with all Androids on version 10+ on the net, it's also updated monthly
over the Google Play system update feature (previously called Project
Mainline); but that only updates the ~25 core modules in Android 13 that
are updated in Project Mainline.
<https://source.android.com/docs/core/ota/modular-system>

What kills most of my older phones was the battery, but this five amp hour
battery is going so strongly that I don't bother to charge it except when
it's needed (as it goes a couple of days easily without needing charging).

The phone only came with 64GB but with the SD card, it's basically
unlimited (where I store anything I add to the phone on the sd card).

If you received a phone around 3 years ago, how well is it doing for you?

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#141743

Andrew wrote:

> A phone is a commodity, which most of us get for free or for extremely low
> costs (e.g., T-Mobile gave everyone in the USA on their postpaid plan a
> free phone who wanted it - see my note below copied in the sig proving it).
> 
> If we lose it, big deal. We lose a free phone. There's no real loss there.

They may give you a cheap/free phone when it suits them, but if you 
lose/break it, will they replace it cheaply when you need it?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#141749

Andy Burns wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 10:36:10 +0100 :

>> If we lose it, big deal. We lose a free phone. There's no real loss there.
> 
> They may give you a cheap/free phone when it suits them, but if you 
> lose/break it, will they replace it cheaply when you need it?

All phones are the same. A phone is merely a commodity.
It makes calls, snaps pictures, and runs apps.

They're all the same.
Even so, let's say you lose it.

How much does a good phone cost nowadays?
About $200 to $300, right?

At most.

Yes, you can spend more (and you can spend less) but a phone is a mature
commodity, where a $1000 phone doesn't do much a $200/$300 phone can't.

To back up that point, allow me to ask the community at large a question.

Q: What does your expensive phone do that my free/$200 phone does not do?
   <https://deviceguides.ee.co.uk/samsung/galaxy-a32-5g-android-11-0/specifications/>
   <https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_a32_5g-10648.php>
   <https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-a32-5g/>

Note: I'm expecting stuff like more pixels and more memory and faster CPUs
and a bit more RAM perhaps, etc., but my point is that there isn't going to
be all that much of actual day-to-day import that cheap phones don't do.

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#141742

Andy Burns wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 08:34:21 +0100 :

> The auto turning back on is only present in Android 15, which isn't out 
> of beta yet, things could change.
> 
> If people want to disable these new features, that's fine, but it should 
> prevent them from benefitting from the new features.  If you don't want 
> to contribute to the findmydevice network that's OK, but don't expect to 
> be able to use the findmydevice network when/if you lose your own phone ...

 <RANT>

I think the many Android open source developers will likely find a way to
keep the bluetooth radio off in Android 15, but I wanted to respond here
specifically to your post saying that "things could change" for the better.

I doubt it.

Google, just last August made "precise location" a requirement, even though
Wi-Fi/Bluetooth are both superfluous for GPS positioning, to use many apps.

They did this by modifying the Google system framework APIs, I believe,
which is a set of APIs that many apps incorporate into their APK code.

You'll note that GSF is prevalent in mapping apps more so than many others.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/0jkC05C6/gsf.jpg>

I complained about it but one person can't battle Google, as you well know
 <https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-do-you-know-a-way-to-permanently-disable-google-location-accuracy-precise-location-wi-fi-scanning-while-keeping-only-the-gps-radio-on.4543135/>

It's not clear if Google is following Apple's lead by lying about
everything except in court, or if Apple is following Google's lead, 
but the end result is that Google has been successful in not being sued
(AFAIK) when Google lied about why they made precise location a mandatory
requirement, and as a result of Google getting away with that last year,
we're all now stuck with the fact that apps built with the GSF API
therefore also require precise location to be turned on, even if the app
itself has absolutely no need for precise location.

My point only is that this doesn't portend an ability to turn off bluetooth
in later releases because Google & Apple make too much $ off tracking us.

 </RANT>

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#141744

Andrew wrote:

> My point only is that this doesn't portend an ability to turn off bluetooth
> in later releases because Google & Apple make too much $ off tracking us.

But do they really make money from knowing where I am?

If I actively search for a supermarket or petrol station, usually I want 
results near me, occasionally I'm interested in a remote location and 
can let it know.

I'd be more convinced if every time I came with 50 ft of a 
Starbucks/McDonalds/Wetherspoons, my phone got bombarded with special 
offers to lure me in ...

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#141750

Andy Burns wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 10:45:39 +0100 :

>> My point only is that this doesn't portend an ability to turn off bluetooth
>> in later releases because Google & Apple make too much $ off tracking us.
> 
> But do they really make money from knowing where I am?

I appreciate that you're asking good questions, where I think in this very
thread we saw an article that Mayayana cited that says yes.

Apple & Google make money off of keeping track of our location.

A. Which, I posit, is why Google made "precise location" almost mandatory.
B. And which, I posit, is why Google is making Bluetooth almost mandatory.

> If I actively search for a supermarket or petrol station, usually I want 
> results near me, occasionally I'm interested in a remote location and 
> can let it know.

I do not understand that sentence, unfortunately.
a. What does the bluetooth radio being on have to do with that search?
b. And besides, you can always search "near" anywhere.

So you don't need "precise location" to run a search.
Nor bluetooth.

Right?

> I'd be more convinced if every time I came with 50 ft of a 
> Starbucks/McDonalds/Wetherspoons, my phone got bombarded with special 
> offers to lure me in ...

It's selling your location that makes the money for them.

Whether or not you get bombarded with the results is how you set up the
phone, as you're well aware, I've never seen an ad on my phone, even though
some of the apps I've installed have ads (but my phone is set up right).

Also I have notifications set to judicious levels, so apps don't bombard me
with spurious notifications; and I don't use crappy apps either.

My point of the rant is both Google and Apple are making money by tracking
us, where what the rant is about are the lies that claim they're doing it
for our own good (but where they won't let us turn off tracking radios).

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#141762

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 10:45:39 +0100 :
> 
>>> My point only is that this doesn't portend an ability to turn off bluetooth
>>> in later releases because Google & Apple make too much $ off tracking us.
>> 
>> But do they really make money from knowing where I am?
> 
> I appreciate that you're asking good questions, where I think in this very
> thread we saw an article that Mayayana cited that says yes.
> 
> Apple & Google make money off of keeping track of our location.

Is this another of your unsubstantiated claims?

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#141765

Chris, 2024-06-03 16:52:

> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>> Andy Burns wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 10:45:39 +0100 :
>>
>>>> My point only is that this doesn't portend an ability to turn off bluetooth
>>>> in later releases because Google & Apple make too much $ off tracking us.
>>>
>>> But do they really make money from knowing where I am?
>>
>> I appreciate that you're asking good questions, where I think in this very
>> thread we saw an article that Mayayana cited that says yes.
>>
>> Apple & Google make money off of keeping track of our location.
> 
> Is this another of your unsubstantiated claims?

No, it is called "location based service". This was already a business
model way before smartphones existed. In the past phone companies sold
location based services based on triangulation of the base stations
connected to the phone.

BTDT - I have written software using this to locate the next available
pharmacy with emergency services in Germany when a user requests this by
either sending an SMS to a specific number and he will then get the list
of pharmacies as response or by using a WAP browser and visiting a
specific WAP site which offers this as a service.

Of course the phone company asked for money for every location request.
And this had to be paid by the company providing that pharmacy location
service and not by the users.

Nowadays location based services are of course more often used to
distribute advertisements or to determine good locations to open the
next fast food restaurant etc..

-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#141769

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Chris, 2024-06-03 16:52:
> 
>> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>>> Andy Burns wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 10:45:39 +0100 :
>>> 
>>>>> My point only is that this doesn't portend an ability to turn off bluetooth
>>>>> in later releases because Google & Apple make too much $ off tracking us.
>>>> 
>>>> But do they really make money from knowing where I am?
>>> 
>>> I appreciate that you're asking good questions, where I think in this very
>>> thread we saw an article that Mayayana cited that says yes.
>>> 
>>> Apple & Google make money off of keeping track of our location.
>> 
>> Is this another of your unsubstantiated claims?
> 
> No, it is called "location based service". This was already a business
> model way before smartphones existed. In the past phone companies sold
> location based services based on triangulation of the base stations
> connected to the phone.
> 
> BTDT - I have written software using this to locate the next available
> pharmacy with emergency services in Germany when a user requests this by
> either sending an SMS to a specific number and he will then get the list
> of pharmacies as response or by using a WAP browser and visiting a
> specific WAP site which offers this as a service.
> 
> Of course the phone company asked for money for every location request.
> And this had to be paid by the company providing that pharmacy location
> service and not by the users.
> 
> Nowadays location based services are of course more often used to
> distribute advertisements or to determine good locations to open the
> next fast food restaurant etc..

Which are reasonable and acceptable use cases. "Andrew "is insinuating more
nefarious data capture. 

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#141774

Chris wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 18:01:39 -0000 (UTC) :

>> Nowadays location based services are of course more often used to
>> distribute advertisements or to determine good locations to open the
>> next fast food restaurant etc..
> 
> Which are reasonable and acceptable use cases. "Andrew "is insinuating more
> nefarious data capture.

Hi Chris,

Unfortunately, 999 out of 1,000 posters to this newsgroup don't know what
they're talking about - so let's test if you know what you're saying.

    To do that is simple: *Answer this fundamental question*.

Why has Google unilaterally made it so that you can't do routing without
turning on the Wi-Fi "precise location" when GPS worked just fine for
decades?

Before you answer that, read this directly related reference please.
 <https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-do-you-know-a-way-to-permanently-disable-google-location-accuracy-precise-location-wi-fi-scanning-while-keeping-only-the-gps-radio-on.4543135/>

Then answer the basic and rather simple fundamental question please. 

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#141782

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 18:01:39 -0000 (UTC) :
> 
>>> Nowadays location based services are of course more often used to
>>> distribute advertisements or to determine good locations to open the
>>> next fast food restaurant etc..
>> 
>> Which are reasonable and acceptable use cases. "Andrew "is insinuating more
>> nefarious data capture.
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Unfortunately, 999 out of 1,000 posters to this newsgroup don't know what
> they're talking about

Are you talking about yourself again? You seem to have stopped discussing
accident statistics all of a sudden and you aren't aware of iOS built in
capabilities. 

So, before slinging insults at people have a look in the mirror first. 

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#141786

Chris wrote on Tue, 4 Jun 2024 08:58:11 -0000 (UTC) :

> So, before slinging insults at people have a look in the mirror first.


What did you learn by reading the reference you were supposed to read?
<https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-do-you-know-a-way-to-permanently-disable-google-location-accuracy-precise-location-wi-fi-scanning-while-keeping-only-the-gps-radio-on.4543135/>

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#141799

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Tue, 4 Jun 2024 08:58:11 -0000 (UTC) :

[ silent snip noted ]

>> So, before slinging insults at people have a look in the mirror first.
> 
> 
> What did you learn by reading the reference you were supposed to read?
> <https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-do-you-know-a-way-to-permanently-disable-google-location-accuracy-precise-location-wi-fi-scanning-while-keeping-only-the-gps-radio-on.4543135/>

You mean the reference you wrote? I'm not going to anything I don't already
know. 

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#141802

Chris wrote on Tue, 4 Jun 2024 16:11:50 -0000 (UTC) :

>> What did you learn by reading the reference you were supposed to read?
>> <https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-do-you-know-a-way-to-permanently-disable-google-location-accuracy-precise-location-wi-fi-scanning-while-keeping-only-the-gps-radio-on.4543135/>
> 
> You mean the reference you wrote? I'm not going to anything I don't already
> know.

Heh heh heh... you prove my point for me.

Q: What do you know? 
A: Nothing

Q: What did you learn?
A: Nothing

Q: What did you plan on learning?
A: Nothing

There's a name for people like you, Chris.
When I use that name, you get upset.

So I'll let you come up with the name.

Q: What should we call people like you Chris?
A: ?

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#141945

Andrew, 2024-06-03 23:03:

[...]
> To do that is simple: *Answer this fundamental question*.
> 
> Why has Google unilaterally made it so that you can't do routing
> without turning on the Wi-Fi "precise location" when GPS worked just
> fine for decades?

OSMAnd works fine for navigation even with WiFi completely turned off.

And Google Maps uses WiFi as well to provide a *much* faster location
determiniation when a GPS fix is not ready yet. With OSMAnd it takes me
sometimes a few minutes(!) before the app knows the location based on
GPS only.

> Before you answer that, read this directly related reference please. 
> <https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-do-you-know-a-way-to-permanently-disable-google-location-accuracy-precise-location-wi-fi-scanning-while-keeping-only-the-gps-radio-on.4543135/>
>
>  Then answer the basic and rather simple fundamental question please.

On my device - a Google Pixel 6a - "Wi-Fi scanning" and "Bluetooth
scanning" is *off* and does *never* turn on itself, also not when using
Google Maps, since Google Maps does not need these options to be enabled.

Also read the post on XDA: it is not Google which turns on these options
but third party apps like "Parked Car", "Car Location" and "Find my
parked car"!

I usually use the "Parking position" plugin in OSMAnd and *never* hat
the problem, that "Wi-Fi scanning" or "Bluetooth scanning" got turned on
when using that. Also Google Maps *never* turned these options on.

Maybe there was once a version of Google Maps which did not work without
"Wi-Fi scanning" or "Bluetooth scanning" - but at least version
11.131.0102 does not need these options.


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#141758

On 6/3/2024 5:45 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Andrew wrote:
> 
>> My point only is that this doesn't portend an ability to turn off 
>> bluetooth
>> in later releases because Google & Apple make too much $ off tracking us.
> 
> But do they really make money from knowing where I am?
> 
    Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. You need to remember that Google
and Apple are both running their own ad systems. For Google,
spyware and ad middlemanning is essentially their whole business.
Google operates by vast, comprehensive data collection. Apple
operates via spyware combined with control over devices.

    Google have deals with credit card companies to know your
purchases. They have deals with stores to track you location
in stores. They track and sell geofencing data to police... Google
maps. GMail. Google analytics on websites. Google fonts. Doorbell
cameras. All of that has one basic purpose, which is to track every
personal detail possible in order to sell that knowledge to people
paying for ad placement; and increasingly selling it to anyone who
will pay.

Remember when Google was caught "slurping" wifi data with their
streetview vans? That gives an indication of just how useful data
is to them. Any data. Even the tiniest fact about you is gold because
it can be instantly added to other data and cross referenced. They're
collecting City Hall records, police blotters, media reports, credit
card usage data, your personal movements and actions... whatever
involves digital functionality, Google has their hands on. I wouldn't
be surprised if they're getting data from "smart" devices, from
washing machines to dildoes.

( Don't laugh: 
https://www.theregister.com/2017/03/13/internet_of_dildos_firm_3_75m_privacy_lawsuit/ 
)

   Google has not been a search engine company for a long time.
Nearly everything they do is free tools and services to enable
tracking, which makes them $10s of billions per quarter. It's really
the ONLY thing they make money from, aside from some money
from commercial map usage and so on. And that's not even getting
into their spyware contracts with others: Retail spying. Spying
in concert with credit card companies. They may do deals with
the likes of Lexis Nexus to use car tracking data. Though they
probably don't need to. Their maps and driving directions are
already tracking a large percentage of people who no longer dare
to drive anywhere without a computer telling them how to do it.
Google also recently contracted with Reddit to rifle through their
posts at will and use them in their own business.

Geofencing:

https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/19/google-geofence-warrants/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2019/12/11/google-gives-feds-1500-leads-to-arsonist-smartphones-in-unprecedented-geofence-search/

   Obviously that would be merely a side hustle compared to ads, but
it all adds up. And it has very real implications beyond ads. The
Cambridge Analytica/Brexit scandal is one example, which a movie
was made about.

   Even more brazen was Eric Schmidt's attempt to sell the 2016
presidential election to Hillary Clinton by selling her access to
Google's database:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170110050350/http://www.itwire.com/government-tech-policy/75531-google-s-schmidt-drew-up-draft-plan-for-clinton-in-2014.html

   She didn't go for the idea... Because she thought it was dishonest
or because she thought it was too expensive or because she simply
didn't understand Google's power? I don't know. I would suspect the
latter. Schmidt was suggesting a $1.5 billion project. Interestingly,
he had also calculated how they could use low-paid lackeys that
they'd dump like hot potatoes as soon as the campaign was over.
Hardly the strategy of a political liberal:

  "Key is the development of a single record for a voter that aggregates 
all that is known about them... New tools should be developed to measure 
reach and impact of paid, earned and social media. The impact of press 
coverage should be measurable in reach and impact, and TV effectiveness 
measured by attention and other surveys."

"Build tools that measure the rate and spread of stories and rumours, 
and model how it works and who has the biggest impact. Tools can tell us 
about the origin of stories and the impact of any venue, person or theme."

"Analytics can model demographics, social factors and many other 
attributes of the needed voters," he wrote. "It should be possible to 
link the voter records in Van (a database) with upcoming databases from 
companies like Comcast and others for media measurement purposes."

   Schmidt was proposing a comprehensive propaganda campaign,
targetted at the level of individuals, to ensure that as many people
as possible were getting Schmidt's engineered misinformation to
turn them toward Clinton. This is not ambiguous. It was an attempt
to short-circuit democracy. Some might say that Trump justified
the effort, but it's still anti-democratic.

   Interestingly, Schmidt insisted that all involved must work without
profit. So he was proposing a commercial enterprise, to steal a public
election, orchestrated by partisans. A kind of propaganda coup. While
the Brexit scenario was exploiting data to identify and talk to
disillusioned voters, the Google/Schmidt deal would have been a
vast, targetted disinformation campaign.

    Part of Schmidt's motive may have been sheer Napoleonic
vanity. But the overall enterprise would have constituted the
ultimate lobbying success -- not only bribing the President but actually
selling the election to her, at least in Schmidt's eyes. (And we shouldn't
assume that tech will support progressive, humane ideals. Those
billionaires are getting older. When they were young they wanted
social progress. Now they favor tax breaks and deregulation.)

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#141770

Newyana2 wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 09:08:20 -0400 :

>>> My point only is that this doesn't portend an ability to turn off 
>>> bluetooth
>>> in later releases because Google & Apple make too much $ off tracking us.
>> 
>> But do they really make money from knowing where I am?
>> 
>     Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. You need to remember that Google
> and Apple are both running their own ad systems. For Google,
> spyware and ad middlemanning is essentially their whole business.
> Google operates by vast, comprehensive data collection. Apple
> operates via spyware combined with control over devices.

Keeping with the main point of the rant, and in accordance with what
Mayayana said above (and which Andy rightfully questioned), there is no
doubt in my mind that the reason Google & Apple are doing this is to make
money off of tracking us... 

a. That's why, I posit, they added the mandatory precise location
b. And now, they're adding bluetooth that can't be kept turned off
c. And they've added phones which can't even be fully turned off

My only goal, really, is to be able to turn that stuff off. 
That's it. 

As long as they make it so intelligent people can turn it off, I'm OK.
Let the proletariat masses be led to slaughter by marketing - but not me.

An example of the masses being led to slaughter, but not me... is this:
 <https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-do-you-have-3-brand-new-default-on-advertising-switches-recently-inserted-into-your-android-for-brand-new-android-13-targeted-advertising.4639991/>

Another example of the masses led to slaughter, but not me, is this.
 <https://xdaforums.com/t/app-6-0-app-finder-the-most-advanced-search-engine-for-android-apps-50-free-plans-here.4578809/post-89024201>

Notice that developers allow us to divorce ourselves from Google and Apple
tracking, where in the case of Apple the tracking on app installations is
tremendously intrusive since Apple inserts a unique ID that only you have
into every app you install on the iPhone from their app store.

Even if Google tried to do that, they couldn't - but they don't (only Apple
tracks every single app IPA you install - Google can't track every APK).

My main point is simply that as long as I can turn the Apple/Google
tracking, I'm fine with that.

It's when they make tracking mandatory (and lie about why) that bothers me.

 <well-informed fact-based evidence-based rant>

I am always logically sensible as I make assessments based on fact.
In cases of lies though, you have to infer them based on actions.

The rant is that they lie about why they're doing this, since you can see
in my article on the precise location that their lies are brazenly told.
 <https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-do-you-know-a-way-to-permanently-disable-google-location-accuracy-precise-location-wi-fi-scanning-while-keeping-only-the-gps-radio-on.4543135/>

Being intelligent and resourceful myself, I actually don't care so much
that the hoi polloi do everything that the marketing people tell them to do
(like sheep led to slaughter); but what I deplore is that they're making it
almost impossible for even the intelligent people to keep the radios off.

Let's be clear that a subtle portion of my rant against Apple's and
Google's brazen lies as to *why* they're preventing us from turning off our
tracking radios is partly that the morons (who outnumber the intelligentsia
1000 to 1) are also tracking us - which is easy to prove with Wi-APs.

The end result is we're literally being tracked by the main entities,
Google & Apple, and, perhaps worse, by every single moron out there.

That bothers me when Google/Apple make it so that we can't turn it off.

 </rant>

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#141776

Andrew wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 20:13:28 -0000 (UTC) :

> Let's be clear that a subtle portion of my rant against Apple's and
> Google's brazen lies as to *why* they're preventing us from turning off our
> tracking radios is partly that the morons (who outnumber the intelligentsia
> 1000 to 1) are also tracking us - which is easy to prove with Wi-APs.

I belatedly realized I hadn't backed up that claim, but since only 1 out of
a million people know this information, here's the backup reference cite.
 <https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-does-android-upload-your-home-ap-ssid-bssid-gps-if-the-home-ap-broadcast-beacon-is-hidden.4284897/>

If you don't read that reference, just know these two facts, that only one
out of a million people seem to understand (which will be you after this).

1. Even if you add "_nomap" to your SSID, all the phones of all the morons
   driving by your house are already set up to *upload* your BSSID and your
   exact GPS Location to the Google/Apple/Wigle/Netstumbler/Mozilla/etc
   server farms. 

   In simpler terms... the "_nomap" does nothing to protect you from the 
   upload by all the cellphones which are set up to the default settings.

2. All the "_nomap" does, is it tells those server farms to eventually 
   scrub your unique BSSID & GPS location from their servers.

   But only well-behaved companies will do that, right?

3. That's why you need to know what only one in a million people know, 
   which is you *also* have to check the router box to "hide broadcast".

   This is not for security, as the packets can be sniffed for the SSID
   and the GPS location can be ascertained and uploaded to, say, WiGLe.

   It's for privacy.

By hiding the broadcast, you insulate yourself from all the morons out
there who have their phones set up in the default configuration.

I posit only 1 out of a million people know this information, which is why
I rant not only about Apple/Microsoft/Google - but about every moron out
there who does everything that the Apple/Google/Microsoft marketing tells
them to.

They're like sheep led to slaughter - but even worse - they're the ones
feeding the Apple/Google/Microsoft marketing machine our private details.

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#141946

Andrew, 2024-06-04 07:19:

> Andrew wrote on Mon, 3 Jun 2024 20:13:28 -0000 (UTC) :
> 
>> Let's be clear that a subtle portion of my rant against Apple's and
>> Google's brazen lies as to *why* they're preventing us from turning off our
>> tracking radios is partly that the morons (who outnumber the intelligentsia
>> 1000 to 1) are also tracking us - which is easy to prove with Wi-APs.
> 
> I belatedly realized I hadn't backed up that claim, but since only 1 out of
> a million people know this information, here's the backup reference cite.
>  <https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-does-android-upload-your-home-ap-ssid-bssid-gps-if-the-home-ap-broadcast-beacon-is-hidden.4284897/>

No - hiding an SSID does *NOTHING* for privacy when you *use* a WiFi
network! The SSID is *alway* visible for connected devices, even when it
is "hidden".

You also need to avoid using Google devices in your WiFi network at all
and forbid others to do so as well.


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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