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A tale calculated to keep you in suspense

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  A tale calculated to keep you in suspense micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-24 23:59 -0500
    Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense Bob Henson <robert.h.henson@gmail.com> - 2018-11-25 09:36 +0000
      Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-26 15:30 -0500
    Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-11-25 14:17 +0100
      Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense "NY" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-11-25 14:18 +0000
        Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-25 11:03 -0500
        Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-25 14:59 -0500
          Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk> - 2018-11-25 20:43 +0000
            Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-26 19:37 -0500
    Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2018-11-25 16:11 +0000
    Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk> - 2018-11-25 17:56 +0000
      Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-11-25 11:33 -0700
        Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2018-11-25 11:17 -0800
      Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense "NY" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-11-25 20:17 +0000
        Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2018-11-25 14:41 -0800
          Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-26 20:37 -0500
            Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk> - 2018-11-27 05:25 +0000
      Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-26 20:33 -0500
    Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2018-11-25 20:11 -0800
      Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense "NY" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-11-26 11:55 +0000
        Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-26 20:08 -0500
          Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-26 20:14 -0500
          Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk> - 2018-11-27 05:38 +0000
    Re: A tale calculated to keep you in suspense Frank Markgraf <hauwech@nurfuerspam.de> - 2018-11-26 13:27 +0100
    Phone only rings some of the time? micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-26 15:28 -0500
      Re: Phone only rings some of the time? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-11-27 00:18 +0100
        Re: Phone only rings some of the time? micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-27 03:21 -0500
          Re: Phone only rings some of the time? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk> - 2018-11-27 16:52 +0000
            Re: Phone only rings some of the time? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-11-29 15:27 +0100
          Re: Phone only rings some of the time? micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-27 14:38 -0500
            Re: Phone only rings some of the time? David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2018-11-27 21:12 +0000
              Re: Phone only rings some of the time? micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-28 09:49 -0500
                Re: Phone only rings some of the time? micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-11-28 10:15 -0500
                  Re: Phone only rings some of the time? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-28 10:52 -0500

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#57918

In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 26 Nov 2018 11:55:41 -0000, "NY"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

>"Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:ptfrva$20g$1@dont-email.me...
>> I contacted google once to tell them that they had a dirt "road" on my 
>> father's property named wrong. No response. I did it again months later, 
>> and the name then changed by the next time I checked.

That's encouraging. 

>The big problem is satnav devices and software which offer impassable roads 
>as a route between places. Near where we live there is a short 1/4 mile 
>section of track that was once an important road across from one dale to the 
>next - a century or more ago! It's been closed to all traffic as long as 
>I've known it (mid 70s) and probably for many decades before that. There's 
>no evidence that it has ever had a tarmac surface, once you get past the 
>farms that it serves. Even tractors would have great difficult getting along 
>part of it because the ruts are so deep that the wheels would go into mud up 
>to their axles - where the mud washes down from the slope of the land on 
>either side.

Very funny. 

>And yet it used to be offered as a route on some satnav software - mainly 
>PC-based, before the days of dedicated TomTom and Garmin devices. I remember 
>emailing one of the data providers to tell them about it, and they actually 
>responded to say that they had removed it from their routing table when I 
>informed them.

Also encouraging (though not google iiuc) 

>The other problem can be road junctions which no longer exist - or have 
>never existed. Near where I used to live, a busy dual carriageway crosses 
>over a minor road between villages. Looking at old 1970s maps, it looks as 
>if there were plans for a junction, though I'm not sure whether it was built 
>and later closed, or whether it never got beyond the planning stage. Someone 
>evidently looked at an old map, saw what looked like a junction, and added 
>it to the routing table. Again, an email with photo and scan of OS map 
>(before the days of Google Streetview) soon sorted that out.
>
>Fortunately when the A1 ("Great North Road") in North Yorkshire was upgraded 
>from ordinary dual carriageway to motorway (which involved closing a lot of 
>the junctions with minor roads) satnav software was updated very quickly, 
>otherwise you'd have had people being directed down minor roads to get onto 
>the A1, and finding that the road finished at a dead end or else a bridge 
>over with no actual junction. However we're still waiting for the satnav 
>built into my wife's car to be updated after a new bypass further north was 
>built about 2 years ago. Obviously we know about the bypass, but it's still 
>useful to have accurate information so it gives the correct distance to the 
>new junction and offers that bypass as a more preferable route than any of 
>the existing roads. Sadly Garmin are not very good about telling you when 
>they will add a new road to the database, or even showing what roads their 
>software currently knows about: the map on their site is a Google-type map 
>which doesn't necessarily reflect what their route database knows about. I 
>spent the best part of a day downloading the updated database and software 
>(about 4 GB) over our 1.5 Mbps internet, only to find that the "new" road 
>still hadn't been added. What is needed is a list showing all the changes 
>between one version and the next, so you can work out when it is sensible to 
>update.
>
>My car doesn't have satnav, and I tend to use Here We Go (aka HereMaps) on 

I had that on the previous phone. Some reason I don't have it now but
your endorsement has me getting it now  (I like maps.me too because it
gives street numbers in many cases.) 

>my Android phone if I need directions. The database of that was updated very 
>soon after the road opened, so changes *can* be made quickly if there is a 
>will to do so. 

I wonder who reports these changes?     Related, I know a large area
where paths between buildings are also marked, where the blocks are long
and the city, or someone, created paths from one street/sidewalk to
another, surrounded by grass, etc.   Who reports those things

>Also the app and offline database are a *lot* smaller to 
>download. I chose HereMaps because it can work offline and doesn't depend on 
>mobile internet to download the next tile of the map, given that mobile 
>coverage is very patchy, even alongside major roads like the A1(M). 

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#57919

In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 26 Nov 2018 20:08:04 -0500, micky
<NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>
>>My car doesn't have satnav, and I tend to use Here We Go (aka HereMaps) on 
>
>I had that on the previous phone. Some reason I don't have it now but
>your endorsement has me getting it now  (I like maps.me too because it
>gives street numbers in many cases.) 

While bring this one up to install it, I came across 
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.navigation.offlinemaps.gps
which says it's "the best of offline and online features to create the
ultimate navigation experience..."  It gets a 4.7 on a quarter million
reviews so it must be pretty good.   But I've never used it. 

>
>>my Android phone if I need directions. The database of that was updated very 
>>soon after the road opened, so changes *can* be made quickly if there is a 
>>will to do so. 
>
>I wonder who reports these changes?     Related, I know a large area
>where paths between buildings are also marked, where the blocks are long
>and the city, or someone, created paths from one street/sidewalk to
>another, surrounded by grass, etc.   Who reports those things
>
>>Also the app and offline database are a *lot* smaller to 
>>download. I chose HereMaps because it can work offline and doesn't depend on 
>>mobile internet to download the next tile of the map, given that mobile 
>>coverage is very patchy, even alongside major roads like the A1(M). 

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#57924

In message <6i5pvdd7tc68mv2eek6kapvq8r969mccge@4ax.com>, micky 
<NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
>In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 26 Nov 2018 11:55:41 -0000, "NY"
><me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>"Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:ptfrva$20g$1@dont-email.me...
>>> I contacted google once to tell them that they had a dirt "road" on my
>>> father's property named wrong. No response. I did it again months later,
>>> and the name then changed by the next time I checked.
>
>That's encouraging.
>
>>The big problem is satnav devices and software which offer impassable roads
>>as a route between places. Near where we live there is a short 1/4 mile

I've heard/seen reports of some villages which have put up signs, saying 
SATNAVS HAVE THIS ROUTE WRONG or similar. Though of course they're not 
that effective, as anyone following their satnav is probably ignoring 
any signs with just text on them.

>>section of track that was once an important road across from one dale to the
>>next - a century or more ago! It's been closed to all traffic as long as
>>I've known it (mid 70s) and probably for many decades before that. There's
>>no evidence that it has ever had a tarmac surface, once you get past the
>>farms that it serves. Even tractors would have great difficult getting along
>>part of it because the ruts are so deep that the wheels would go into mud up
>>to their axles - where the mud washes down from the slope of the land on
>>either side.

That _might_ explain http://255soft.uk/SatNav/ - that clearly had in the 
SatNav's map a road, which followed very precisely - all the twists and 
turns - an almost-invisible track, eventually getting to a little dip 
where trees had obviously been growing for many years, to the extent 
that most 4WDs wouldn't get through, though a Hummer might.

Probably less so now updates and live are commoner, but I think there 
were places where local farmers - or others with suitable tractor-like 
vehicles - made a small amount from pulling out people who'd got stuck 
following blindly. (I think there were a few more serious cases where it 
led people over a cliff or similar, or would have; I _hope_ most of 
those have been fenced off by now.)
[]
>>
>>Fortunately when the A1 ("Great North Road") in North Yorkshire was upgraded
>>from ordinary dual carriageway to motorway (which involved closing a lot of
>>the junctions with minor roads) satnav software was updated very quickly,
>>otherwise you'd have had people being directed down minor roads to get onto
>>the A1, and finding that the road finished at a dead end or else a bridge
[]
I have an old SatNav, which I haven't bothered updating as I know the 
relevant part of the A1 almost blindfold. Either the bit you're 
referring to, or a bit further north - a long section on the way to 
Newcastle, anyway - the present road is I think some tens or more yards 
to the side of where it used to be; the SatNav (which I tend to leave 
on) gets very confused, as it thinks I'm ploughing through fields 
parallel to where it thinks the road is, and is constantly trying to 
correct me.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Have you ever heard about a petition, disagreed with it, but been frustrated
that there's no way you can *show* that you disagree? If so, have a look at
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/232770 - and please pass it on if you
agree, especially to twitter, facebook, gransnet/mumsnet, or any such forum.

the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'. Professor Edzart Ernst, prudential
magazine, AUTUMN 2006, p. 13.

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#57893

Am 25.11.2018 um 05:59 schrieb micky:

> **The street is shaped like a square, and google seems to have started
> numbering at the SW corner and gone counterclockwise, when in fact the
> numbers start at the NW corner and go clockwise.   So 2 or 3 houses
> somewhere in the middle are probably correct.    Is it worth trying to
> write Google for them to correct this, or is it better this way so my
> enemies can't find me as quickly? 
> 
Tell them to use OpenStreetMap (Osmand app). Go to OSM web site, open an
account, and correct the numbers on your own for the benefit of all
others searching for you and your neighbours.

FM

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#57911 — Phone only rings some of the time?

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Nov 2018 23:59:09 -0500, micky
<NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>A tale calculated to keep you in suspense
>
> Well not that much suspense, but I would appreciate comments.

I've done some more testing with possibly valuable results. 

I've continued to call myself from my landline and after working several
times in a row, it then did not ring several times.  

1) Not only did the cell phone not ring, but there was no ringing sound
in the phone I was calling from. It's just silence and then the cell
voicmail answers.  Is that significant?   When my cell does ring, I hear
the normal simulated ringing sound in the phone I'm calling from. 

2) I continued calling and sometimes it rang, sometimes not.  And
another friend called at 6PM yesterday and it didnt' ring. 

Today I made a point to browse the web while calling myself and the
phone did not ring.    

Oh, I was using wifi so I turned off the wifi receiver and turned on the
data receiver and did it again.   This time the phone did ring!!!  Maybe
that's the problem.   So I turned off the data receiver, so they are
both off and called again and again it rang!!!  So that's not the
problem after all.  So what is?   

I have 4 bars all over the house including when I sit at my desk. 


**(So I'm sure the pizza parlor is not wrong, they did call me.  I will
go in tomorrow, or maybe again on Friday to give some money for the
delivery man who waited outside the house and never got tipped.  Can I
trust the manager to give it to him?    Wait!  When it doesn't ring for
me, it always goes to voicemail. Why didn't the pizza man leave a
message any of the 3 times he says he called?) 


>Yesterday I got out of the hospital after 2 days (presumably I'm cured)
>and didn't want to cook.  Ordered a pizza to be delivered. 
>
>It was 11:15PM and the parlor was open until 2AM. 
>
>They said 30 to 45 minutes and after 15 minutes I went downstairs to
>wait in the kitchen, right next to the front hall.  After about 45
>minutes I called to tell them that Google shows my house about 2 blocks
>from where it really is. (but it's wrong** for almost every house on
>this 3-block street and they must have delivered to this street before
>and should know that.)
>
>No answer, no answer twice more at 30 minute intervals. No pizza. 
>
>At 2PM I ate what little food I had. 
>
>I called today and he answered, same guy as yesterday, and he said the
>delivery man waited 30 minutes outside my house but I never answered the
>phone.   And that he himself called me 3 times. 
>
>
>I have had trouble getting my phone to ring in the past, the volume
>would mysteriously go down to zero, but yesterday I got a call around
>noon and it rang fine, and right after I called today, I called myself
>from the landline and it worked fine.
>
>
>I get 4 bars on my phone throughout the house. 
>
>
>
>I asked him to deliver it again and he wanted to verify the last 4
>digits of the credit card and 20 minutes later it was there.  The
>delivery man said he wasn't the one from last night.   He didn't call
>from the car because it was daylight, but he knocked so lightly I barely
>heard it. 
>
>So what happened.  Did my phone not work, or did he not deliver but used
>this as an excuse?
>
>They've been in business for at least 10 years, they were prompt today,
>they didn't send a pie from last night but a fresh one. 
>
>OTOH, how could my phone not work? 
>
>
>**The street is shaped like a square, and google seems to have started
>numbering at the SW corner and gone counterclockwise, when in fact the
>numbers start at the NW corner and go clockwise.   So 2 or 3 houses
>somewhere in the middle are probably correct.    Is it worth trying to
>write Google for them to correct this, or is it better this way so my
>enemies can't find me as quickly? 

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#57914 — Re: Phone only rings some of the time?

On 26/11/2018 21.28, micky wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Nov 2018 23:59:09 -0500, micky
> <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
>> A tale calculated to keep you in suspense
>>
>> Well not that much suspense, but I would appreciate comments.
> 
> I've done some more testing with possibly valuable results. 
> 
> I've continued to call myself from my landline and after working several
> times in a row, it then did not ring several times.  
> 
> 1) Not only did the cell phone not ring, but there was no ringing sound
> in the phone I was calling from. It's just silence and then the cell
> voicmail answers.  Is that significant?   When my cell does ring, I hear
> the normal simulated ringing sound in the phone I'm calling from. 
> 
> 2) I continued calling and sometimes it rang, sometimes not.  And
> another friend called at 6PM yesterday and it didnt' ring. 
> 
> Today I made a point to browse the web while calling myself and the
> phone did not ring.    
> 
> Oh, I was using wifi so I turned off the wifi receiver and turned on the
> data receiver and did it again.   This time the phone did ring!!!  Maybe
> that's the problem.   So I turned off the data receiver, so they are
> both off and called again and again it rang!!!  So that's not the
> problem after all.  So what is?   

Do you use that feature that routes the calls via WiFi? Try disabling it.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#57925 — Re: Phone only rings some of the time?

My reply is below, and I'm not erasing it, but I  googled  "mintmobilie
phone does not always ring" and found that the problem is surely
mintmobile (formerly mint sim), which has some sort of relationship with
t-mobile.  One article said even the CEO of MM has admitted the problem.

Quite a few people have the very same problem, to a T, and have had for
months, and it comes and goes.  Restarting the phone sometimes fixes it,
and did just now, but how am I to know when to restart the phone?

BTW, it's interesting that not only did google search split mintmobile
into two words, it combined "does not" into "doesn't".  !!!!!

It would rather  search on doesn't than does not. 

"Showing results for mint mobile phone doesn't always ring
Search instead for mintmobilie phone does not always ring"


In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 27 Nov 2018 00:18:29 +0100, "Carlos
E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 26/11/2018 21.28, micky wrote:
>> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 24 Nov 2018 23:59:09 -0500, micky
>> <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> A tale calculated to keep you in suspense
>>>
>>> Well not that much suspense, but I would appreciate comments.
>> 
>> I've done some more testing with possibly valuable results. 
>> 
>> I've continued to call myself from my landline and after working several
>> times in a row, it then did not ring several times.  
>> 
>> 1) Not only did the cell phone not ring, but there was no ringing sound
>> in the phone I was calling from. It's just silence and then the cell
>> voicmail answers.  Is that significant?   When my cell does ring, I hear
>> the normal simulated ringing sound in the phone I'm calling from. 
>> 
>> 2) I continued calling and sometimes it rang, sometimes not.  And
>> another friend called at 6PM yesterday and it didnt' ring. 
>> 
>> Today I made a point to browse the web while calling myself and the
>> phone did not ring.    
>> 
>> Oh, I was using wifi so I turned off the wifi receiver and turned on the
>> data receiver and did it again.   This time the phone did ring!!!  Maybe
>> that's the problem.   So I turned off the data receiver, so they are
>> both off and called again and again it rang!!!  So that's not the
>> problem after all.  So what is?   
>
>Do you use that feature that routes the calls via WiFi? Try disabling it.

 I thought I answered this but it doesn't show  up.  I did sign up for
it, but MintMobile also has a list of phones it works with, only about
100 models by only 10 makers, and the vast majority are not on the list.
And Xiaomis not either.

But I figured there are really fewer manufacturers  than brands and it
might work anyhow. 

So I disabled it and it said give a few minutes.  I waited an hour and
the phone didn't ring, but just now it did. And 5 minutes later it
didn't.  And four more times it didn't. 

What is really strange is that when it's not going to ring, the caller
does not here the simulated ringing sound in his phone, even though more
than enough time goes by for it to start. It  just now took 23 seconds
(four times in a row) for my voicemail to answer, but my cell phone
never rang and the ringing sound never appeared in the calling phone. 

I guess ringing sound is provided by the destination, because it's
different when I call some countries, so I guess it can make no sound at
all.   But since it never starts ringing, MintMobile knows right away
that it's not going to forward the call to my cell. 

Maybe the problem is in Mint Mobile (T-mobile) even though it always has
4 bars. 

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#57933 — Re: Phone only rings some of the time?

In message <6htpvd1ruc76madvpnvn68lt99ejfdki7m@4ax.com>, micky 
<NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
[]
>What is really strange is that when it's not going to ring, the caller
>does not here the simulated ringing sound in his phone, even though more
>than enough time goes by for it to start. It  just now took 23 seconds
>(four times in a row) for my voicemail to answer, but my cell phone
>never rang and the ringing sound never appeared in the calling phone.
>
>I guess ringing sound is provided by the destination, because it's
>different when I call some countries, so I guess it can make no sound at
>all.   But since it never starts ringing, MintMobile knows right away
>that it's not going to forward the call to my cell.
>
>Maybe the problem is in Mint Mobile (T-mobile) even though it always has
>4 bars.
>
I don't know about mobiles, but for landlines, I think it _used_ to be 
that the ringing _sound_ as heard by the caller _was_ generated at or 
near the destination - I have memories of calls to rural locations 
sounding decidedly more woobly than others - but I think it is now 
generated at the caller's local exchange, or nearby. The actual 
_envelope_ I think is still generated somewhere close to the receiving 
end, though, since calls to UK landlines still give the ring, ring - 
pause - ring ring, whereas calls to US ones give the ring, pause, ring, 
pause shape. This envelope is also what the called 'phone generates, 
though the actual sound is of course dependent on the actual 'phone(s) 
that are ringing, from an actual bell to various bleeps and warbles. I 
guess that _is_ different for mobiles, what with ringtones etcetera.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Have you ever heard about a petition, disagreed with it, but been frustrated
that there's no way you can *show* that you disagree? If so, have a look at
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/232770 - and please pass it on if you
agree, especially to twitter, facebook, gransnet/mumsnet, or any such forum.

Who were your favourite TV stars or shows when you were a child? Sadly they've
all been arrested ... Ian Hislop, in Radio Times 28 September-4 October 2013

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#57987 — Re: Phone only rings some of the time?

On 27/11/2018 17.52, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <6htpvd1ruc76madvpnvn68lt99ejfdki7m@4ax.com>, micky
> <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
> []
>> What is really strange is that when it's not going to ring, the caller
>> does not here the simulated ringing sound in his phone, even though more
>> than enough time goes by for it to start. It  just now took 23 seconds
>> (four times in a row) for my voicemail to answer, but my cell phone
>> never rang and the ringing sound never appeared in the calling phone.
>>
>> I guess ringing sound is provided by the destination, because it's
>> different when I call some countries, so I guess it can make no sound at
>> all.   But since it never starts ringing, MintMobile knows right away
>> that it's not going to forward the call to my cell.
>>
>> Maybe the problem is in Mint Mobile (T-mobile) even though it always has
>> 4 bars.
>>
> I don't know about mobiles, but for landlines, I think it _used_ to be
> that the ringing _sound_ as heard by the caller _was_ generated at or
> near the destination - I have memories of calls to rural locations
> sounding decidedly more woobly than others - but I think it is now
> generated at the caller's local exchange, or nearby. The actual
> _envelope_ I think is still generated somewhere close to the receiving
> end, though, since calls to UK landlines still give the ring, ring -
> pause - ring ring, whereas calls to US ones give the ring, pause, ring,
> pause shape. This envelope is also what the called 'phone generates,
> though the actual sound is of course dependent on the actual 'phone(s)
> that are ringing, from an actual bell to various bleeps and warbles. I
> guess that _is_ different for mobiles, what with ringtones etcetera.

For fixed lines the rule is that the ringing sound is sent from the
final exchange back to the originating device⁽¹⁾, using the established
voice channel. Thus it is a test that sound is working, at least back to
you.

Thus if you do not hear the ringing, the call failed.

I don't remember about mobiles.

(1)  Not the phone itself, as the landline phone standard is a dumb
device. Any phone from any year should work.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#57934 — Re: Phone only rings some of the time?

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 27 Nov 2018 03:21:21 -0500, micky
<NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>
>My reply is below, and I'm not erasing it, but I  googled  "mintmobilie
>phone does not always ring" and found that the problem is surely
>mintmobile (formerly mint sim), which has some sort of relationship with
>t-mobile.  One article said even the CEO of MM has admitted the problem.
>
>Quite a few people have the very same problem, to a T, and have had for
>months, and it comes and goes.  Restarting the phone sometimes fixes it,
>and did just now, but how am I to know when to restart the phone?

I've been thinking about this.  One or two people on the Mint forum (or
something Mint) suggested restarting the phone, and I did that and the
problem went away immediately. 

But the problem is supposed to be with Mint, not the phone itself.   So
it must be that the Mint transmissions mess up the phone.  So that
restarting it undoes the problem?  How?

It seems like this problem wouldn't  be that hard to fix.  Most of what
comes from a provider is the actual talking sounds or text letters, or
data.  Only some, a limited amount I would think is setup, packaging,
closing, etc. and it should be possible to review all of it.   Only half
or fewer of the lines change things.  I would think a couple of the
staff know it backwards and forwards. 

And regarding the phone, the Android OS and apps, I wonder if they know
what is wrong when calls go straight to voicemail.  I suppose it's a
signal that the phone is not connected to the cell towers, even though
it is.  They know what that is.    Something in the phone is telling the
cell tower that the phone is not on.  That makes no sense.  It must be
that nothing is telling any cell tower that the phone is on.   

That makes the problem in the phone and not at Mint, yet posters said
that people with various models including iphones had the same problem
I've been talking about in this thread, phone often not ringing

>
>BTW, it's interesting that not only did google search split mintmobile
>into two words, it combined "does not" into "doesn't".  !!!!!
>
>It would rather search on doesn't than does not. 
>
>"Showing results for mint mobile phone doesn't always ring
>Search instead for mintmobilie phone does not always ring"

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#57936 — Re: Phone only rings some of the time?

In message <0i6rvd59m3t46ipqtdctrmejdn1j36cei1@4ax.com>
          micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 27 Nov 2018 03:21:21 -0500, micky
><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>My reply is below, and I'm not erasing it, but I  googled  "mintmobilie
>>phone does not always ring" and found that the problem is surely
>>mintmobile (formerly mint sim), which has some sort of relationship with
>>t-mobile.  One article said even the CEO of MM has admitted the problem.
>>
>>Quite a few people have the very same problem, to a T, and have had for
>>months, and it comes and goes.  Restarting the phone sometimes fixes it,
>>and did just now, but how am I to know when to restart the phone?
>
>I've been thinking about this.  One or two people on the Mint forum (or
>something Mint) suggested restarting the phone, and I did that and the
>problem went away immediately. 
>
>But the problem is supposed to be with Mint, not the phone itself.   So
>it must be that the Mint transmissions mess up the phone.  So that
>restarting it undoes the problem?  How?

Don't confuse correlation with causation.

Yu'll have to do the experiment many times for the results to have
sufficient validity.

Important question: do these missed calls cause missed call
records?

Dave

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#57953 — Re: Phone only rings some of the time?

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 27 Nov 2018 21:12:35 GMT, David Higton
<dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:

>In message <0i6rvd59m3t46ipqtdctrmejdn1j36cei1@4ax.com>
>          micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

This is a Xiaomi Redmi Note 4, Android 7. Actually 7.0 NRD90M, whatever
that means.  Security patch on October 1. 

>>In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 27 Nov 2018 03:21:21 -0500, micky
>><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>My reply is below, and I'm not erasing it, but I  googled  "mintmobilie
>>>phone does not always ring" and found that the problem is surely
>>>mintmobile (formerly mint sim), which has some sort of relationship with
>>>t-mobile.  One article said even the CEO of MM has admitted the problem.
>>>
>>>Quite a few people have the very same problem, to a T, and have had for
>>>months, and it comes and goes.  Restarting the phone sometimes fixes it,
>>>and did just now, but how am I to know when to restart the phone?
>>
>>I've been thinking about this.  One or two people on the Mint forum (or
>>something Mint) suggested restarting the phone, and I did that and the
>>problem went away immediately. 
>>
>>But the problem is supposed to be with Mint, not the phone itself.   So
>>it must be that the Mint transmissions mess up the phone.  So that
>>restarting it undoes the problem?  How?
>
>Don't confuse correlation with causation.

Good point. 

>Yu'll have to do the experiment many times for the results to have
>sufficient validity.
>
>Important question: do these missed calls cause missed call
>records?

AFAICT, if the phone rings and I hang up the calling phone (a land line)
before I answser the cell phone, there is a message that I called. If
the phone doesn't ring and I hang up before voice mail answers, there is
no record. 

When a friend left a voice message, and when I tested and left messages
(5 times), I got them, though screen notification of the voice mail
seems to be about an hour later. 

But when the pizza parlor called me 3 times, he said, and surely left 1
or more messages, I didn't get any evidence they called, no message and
nothing in the Recents [sic] list. 

I've had the phone on all day, probably no one called**, and so it never
rang, but I just called myself 3 times, and again each time, the sound
of ringing wasn't in the calling phone and the cell phone never rang.
Each time after 23 seconds, the voicemail answered, and I hung up.

Then I restarted the phone and did it again 3 times, and each time I
heard ringing in the calling phone, and the cell phone rang.  Each time
I left a message, and I quickly got notifications of both the 3 new
messages and the 3 times it went to voicemail a few minutes earlier.  I
played the messages and they were what I had said. 

That's the 2nd time restarting the phone made it work, BUT, how do I
know when to restart the phone, or when it has stopped working?   The
second question can be answered with an awful lot of testing, maybe, if
it's consistent***.  What makes it change from ringing to not ringing?. 

10 minutes later, it still works.  Its 2AM and I'm going back to bed
soon, but I can do more testing tomorrow.   Testing goes quickly, just
press Redial, Speakerphone, and when it works, 3 seconds later, the
calling phone has ringing sounds in it and a second after that, the
cellphone rings.  I can hang up then. 

20 minutes later, still works. 

50 minutes later, still works.

80 minutes later, DOESN"T WORK.   I had pushed the power button to
darken the screen but waking it up didn't help, didn't work a secnd
time.  But it DID WORK a couple minutes later.

100 minutes later, still works both with the screen lit up and dark. 

110 minutes later, still works with screen dark. 

140 minutes later, still works

***Why would the time to stop working be consistent?.  Maybe it's
time-based but maybe bouncing around in my pocket does it, fiddling with
some app, driving under high tension lines (I never do that). I was busy
today and don't remember doing any fiddling with the phone, though I did
turn it on, drive around with it and carry it.

Also, there are a lot of people with different devices, different brands
that report this, including iPhones and even a Windows phone.  Including
Samsung Galaxy s4 and s7, Moto G2, Moto E4+.   One or more people report
that restarting the phone doesn't help.   
 I dont' think it's worth reading this long thread which runs from about
5 months ago until yesterday, but FTR: 
https://community.mintmobile.com/ask-a-question-14/anyone-have-issues-receiving-calls-250

Here are extracts: 

Several report symptoms that vary, like sometimes getting notifications
of voicemail and sometimes never getting it. 


One poster says he was told to reseat the sim, so it will re-register,
and it didnt' work for him but after my testing, I will try that.  I
suppose I have to turn it on with no sim for the phone to know the sim
has been removed.  Maybe he didn't do that. 

One poster who seems to have done extensive testing every day for a week
says making an outgoing call, like to voicemail, or sending a text will
fix it for a while, he says, because he gets a bunch of pending
notifications after he does that.   If that works, it will be easier
than restarting. 

He says if one doesn't get calls, he doesn't get texts either, and vice
versa. 

Another guy who might get a lot of calls says it starts between 2 and 4
every afternoon!


Another guy suggests checking willmyphonework.net and I've done that,
did it again, and again it says compatible on 2G, 1900; compatible on
some frequencies for 3G; and not compatible for 4G LTE. 

A) It says NC for 4G but I've seen LTE on the notification bar of the
phone.  Not when I'm home but other places. 

B) Could that be it?   Sometimes it calls on a different frequency that
I don't have?  Calls only on that frequency?   If that were the case,
why would restarting the phone make a difference, as it seems to. That
wouldn't change which frequencies the central station called me on. 

But even if it's not compatible for 4G and for some freqs on 3G, what
about that it's compatible on 2G? Isn't that enough for me to receive a
phone call?   So surely it doesn't have be compatible on all frequencies
Mint uses.  (Actually I have had no trouble using the web browser.  It's
pretty quick, faster than 2G, I think.  I haven't tried receiving images
with texts.) 

I had assumed it would call on all frequencies and when the phone
noticed, there would be some handshaking and then it would continue only
on the frequency that the phone replied with.  Providers without their
own cell towers that use parts of others' networks can't expect every
phone they call to have every frequency the provider can use. Even if
you use Verizon or some provider with its own cell towers, what happens
when you're some place Verizon is not and there is a frequency on the
cell tower that your phone can't get, but another that it can get?
Surely it still works.

Yet one guy says "I was the one who posted on the other thread about
phone compatibility. I just cross-checked my missed call log on my phone
with my voicemail history, and it doesn't look like I have had a single
missed call in the month and a half since I got my new (fully-
compatible) phone. I previously was on Mint with a partially compatible
phone, and I was experiencing something like 20-25% calls that would go
straight to voicemail. I am not 100% sure that pure phone compatibility
will fix the problem for everyone, but it did work for me. "

Yet another guy says " I have had the same problem for the last 2 to 3
months but didn't notice any problems for the first 10 to 12 months. I
have the Moto G5+"  So the phone didnt' change so something at Mint must
have changed. 

And a third guy who says he has the very same problem says " I have been
with Mint for 6 months and have never had a problem until last weekend.
Now it happens daily btwn 4 pm and 9 pm....  I think as Mint MVNO
customers we are being kicked off the towers when they get overloaded."
I will have to do more testing after midnight. Hmm. I started to night
at 1AM and it didnt' work 3 times.  Would they deprioritize at 1AM?  Do
they deprioritize phone calls or phones themselves? 

Another guy changed phones, changed sims, no joy, and then " Finally I
called Mint again and they had me CHANGE THE PREFERRED NETWORK TYPE from
LTE to 3G. It's been more than 2 weeks now and I haven't missed a call
since."  OTOH, when I've had the problem I dont' think LTE was showing
on the notification bar. 

And for Carlos "Had same issue, sometimes I didn't receive calls or
texts until I called some one, then I would get all the texts. I then
remembered that this started to happen after enabling WiFi calling on my
unlocked att Samsung S8 through the mint app. Which doesn't work with
the att s8 version on mint. So I disabled it recently and haven't had
any issues since then. Hope this helps some folk."  But I've disabled
wifi and the problem continues. 


One can see why it took several years to get from wired phones with
switchboard operators, which are relatively simple, to wired phones with
dialing, and then a big jump to cell phones which seem so so
complicated. 

Five or 6 people on the Mint forum described symtoms like mine, though
none went into so much detail. One or two suggested restarting the
phone.    The Xiaomi forum had similar but simpler complaints and the
answer was always, Turn on the bell!

>Dave

**I've only given the number to 4 people and 3 of them never call me.
(During the trial period of 3 months, even fewer called me because I
didn't tell people a number I wasn't sure I would keep.) 

I'm still weak from the hospital and I got food delivered again last
night, gave them my land line number, and they called me 3 times for one
delivery!   Good thing the land line works. 

Until this is resolved, I could restart the phone every time I expect a
phone call.  Like when I order food delivered, or ask someone to call me
back.  That would help a lot.  I dont' have that many friends and I
don't talk to the ones I have that often (maybe spend too much time on
the net!) 

One of the moderators wants people to Direct Message him, at iiuc
@Name1Name2, but I don't know how to do that.


----
Misc. notes for myself: 
"then told me about the ##004# code"  What about it? 
"This isn't a fix, but something to help may be to set your voicemail to
so that it notifies you if you miss a call. I use a third party service
called YouMail and I can set it so that if an alert is sent even if no
voicemail is left. You'd still have the problem of not getting calls,
but at least you could be notified when someone called. "  I don't get
it but maybe he's right. 

Hello everyone, please direct message us so we can further research your
account along with the following details.
Mobile number:
IMEI#
Make and model of your device:
Home address:
When did you first experience this issue?
Roughly what time of day does that happen?



Is MintMobile an MVNO?  I thought FreedomPop had to use its own dialer
because it was an MVNO and this one uses the factory dialer. 

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#57954 — Re: Phone only rings some of the time?

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 28 Nov 2018 09:49:55 -0500, micky
<NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>
>10 minutes later, it still works.  Its 2AM and I'm going back to bed
>soon, but I can do more testing tomorrow.   Testing goes quickly, just
>press Redial, Speakerphone, and when it works, 3 seconds later, the
>calling phone has ringing sounds in it and a second after that, the
>cellphone rings.  I can hang up then. 
>
>20 minutes later, still works. 
>
>50 minutes later, still works.
>
>80 minutes later, DOESN"T WORK.   I had pushed the power button to
>darken the screen but waking it up didn't help, didn't work a secnd
>time.  But it DID WORK a couple minutes later.
>
>100 minutes later, still works both with the screen lit up and dark. 
>
>110 minutes later, still works with screen dark. 
>
>140 minutes later, still works
   
 This was about 3AM.  Went to bed.  Back at desk by 9:30AM

8:30 hours later than start of test, DOESN'T WORK***.

called voicemail:  Works again  (But again, I don't know when I need to
do this.) 


***I should have tried it several times here. David would definitely say
that.  But I forgot because I'm convinced I understand the pattern.  At
any rate, if someone called me and it went straight to voicemail, they
would not call several times or even twice. It has to ring every time to
be good. 

These symptoms are pretty specific.  They should be able to fix this,
right? :-)  

And I don't think incompatibility on some frequencies could be cured
even temporarily by calling my voicemail. Although maybe once
encountered it sets a switch in the phone or the central station that
says, "Do not ring, go straight to voicemail"  

Is it possible to call someone with an instruction to go straight to
voicemail?  Not a tone that is added after the line answers, but one
sent, received, and interpreted before the first ring?   If so, the
switch referred to could be at the Mint central station. 

If not, could there be a switch set in the phone that says, "Do not
ring, send calls to Voicemail"?   Sure, because if the phone were off,
or if I were on the phone and there were no call waiting, that would
happen. 

But why would any Android programmer do that, even accidentally?   

And this happens on many brands of phones.  So either all those
manufacturer OS customizers made the same mistake or it came with say, a
particular original release of Android 7 and if it came with Android why
doesn't it happen to more people? 

It is as someone on the forum said, as if the phone goes to sleep and
has to be awakened by my texting, calling, or rebooting.  Is there such
a thing as phone sleep?   Or phone dormancy.  Or ringer sleep?  

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#57957 — Re: Phone only rings some of the time?

In article <vtatvd50qkvib2ujroccmc1mudm0i5mi6l@4ax.com>, micky
<NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> Is it possible to call someone with an instruction to go straight to
> voicemail?  Not a tone that is added after the line answers, but one
> sent, received, and interpreted before the first ring?   If so, the
> switch referred to could be at the Mint central station. 

yes.

> If not, could there be a switch set in the phone that says, "Do not
> ring, send calls to Voicemail"?   Sure, because if the phone were off,
> or if I were on the phone and there were no call waiting, that would
> happen. 

that switch is called silent mode or do not disturb.

however, the usual scenario is if there is no voice channel available
for a call.

> But why would any Android programmer do that, even accidentally?   

it's not android specific. just about every phone, both landline and
cellular, has a way to disable the ring because people might not want
to be interrupted with phone calls.

> And this happens on many brands of phones.  So either all those
> manufacturer OS customizers made the same mistake or it came with say, a
> particular original release of Android 7 and if it came with Android why
> doesn't it happen to more people? 

it's not a mistake.

> It is as someone on the forum said, as if the phone goes to sleep and
> has to be awakened by my texting, calling, or rebooting.  Is there such
> a thing as phone sleep?   Or phone dormancy.  Or ringer sleep?  

the phone is sleeping any time the main display is off (unless it's
fully powered off, which is rare). apps still continue to run and the
phone is still listening for calls, texts, push notifications, etc.

depending on the type of cellular connection, the cell radio may also
sleep, however, that's at a rapid rate and low duty cycle and isn't
anything anyone will notice.

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