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Groups > comp.mobile.android > #33307 > unrolled thread

Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files

Started byAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
First post2016-08-12 15:40 +0000
Last post2016-08-17 17:59 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 90 — 12 participants

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  Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-12 15:40 +0000
    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-12 16:29 +0000
      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-12 18:18 +0000
        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 01:23 +0000
      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-08-12 22:36 -0400
        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 01:23 +0000
    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-12 10:10 -0700
      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-12 18:18 +0000
        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-12 15:52 -0700
          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 02:16 +0000
        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 01:23 +0000
          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-14 16:28 +0000
      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 01:23 +0000
        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-14 06:21 -0600
          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-14 08:47 -0700
            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 22:45 +0000
              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-14 20:24 -0700
          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 22:45 +0000
            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-14 18:59 -0400
              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-15 02:06 +0000
                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-15 06:43 -0600
                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-16 11:52 +0000
                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-17 05:48 -0600
                      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-17 17:12 +0000
                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-17 13:28 -0400
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files I R A Darth Aggie <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-17 19:05 +0000
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-17 19:33 +0000
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 10:14 -0600
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-17 19:33 +0000
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 10:05 -0600
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-18 13:12 -0400
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 14:26 -0600
                                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-18 16:51 -0400
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 20:00 -0600
                                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-18 22:48 -0400
                                      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-09 02:33 -0400
                                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-09 02:36 -0400
                                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 09:06 +0200
                                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files John B. <slocombjbEDIT@gmail.xyz> - 2016-09-09 16:28 +0700
                                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 11:50 +0200
                        Fing (was: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files) I R A Darth Aggie <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-17 18:43 +0000
                          Re: Fing Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-17 19:33 +0000
                            Re: Fing Nigel Wade <nmw@local.domain> - 2016-08-18 09:41 +0100
                              Re: Fing Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-18 18:43 +0000
                                Re: Fing tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-08-18 18:44 -0400
                              Re: Fing Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-08-19 07:00 +0100
                                Re: Fing Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 16:22 +0000
                          Re: Fing Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-18 18:43 +0000
                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-17 16:15 -0700
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 05:32 +0000
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-18 23:01 -0700
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 13:55 +0000
                                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Nigel Wade <nmw@local.domain> - 2016-08-19 15:08 +0100
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 16:58 +0000
                                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-19 08:11 -0700
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 16:58 +0000
                                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 13:11 -0400
                                      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-20 01:21 +0000
                                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 21:37 -0400
                                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-20 04:24 +0000
                                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-20 00:26 -0400
                                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-19 14:57 -0700
                                      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-20 01:21 +0000
                                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-20 00:05 -0700
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 10:37 -0400
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 16:58 +0000
                                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 13:11 -0400
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-20 01:21 +0000
                                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 21:37 -0400
                                      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-20 04:45 +0000
                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 10:03 -0600
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-18 10:03 -0700
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-08-18 18:39 -0400
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 20:05 -0600
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-18 22:48 -0400
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-19 19:12 +0000
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 15:25 -0400
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-20 14:00 +0000
                                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-20 09:45 -0700
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-20 18:42 +0000
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-11 02:35 -0400
                                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-11 02:44 -0400
                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-15 11:46 -0400
                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-16 05:59 +0000
                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-16 07:12 -0400
                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-16 05:32 -0600
                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-16 06:00 +0000
                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-16 11:54 +0000
    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files pamela <invalid@nospam.com> - 2016-08-16 21:09 +0100
      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-17 17:59 +0000

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#33569

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-08-20 00:26 -0400
Message-ID<200820160026423864%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#33568
In article <np8m1m$rc1$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:
 
> I am a crook. 

at least you admit it.

not that anyone had any doubt.

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#33561

FromAL <noemail@none.com>
Date2016-08-19 14:57 -0700
Message-ID<yhLtz.57709$n83.1290@fx43.iad>
In reply to#33551
On 8/19/2016 9:58 AM, Aardvarks wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:11:15 -0700, AL wrote:

> b. Some give up after finding multiple easy solutions (that's me)
 > ...And I find *multiple* solutions - if they exist.

After a problem is solved why waste time finding more solutions?

> I run the test, and lo and behold, I find my neighbor's baby monitor
> scattering noise all over the band that I was using.
>
> So, what do I do?
> I limit the bandwidth (cutting it in half) and I jump to a different
> channel (getting as far away from the baby monitor as possible).

If the noise is "all over the band" changing channels won't help.

> Since you never seek the app, you never figure out where the noise is
> coming from.

Since my rated 50 Mbps service (Cox) just measured at 63 Mbps at 40 ft 
from the router on this T100 tablet I don't think I have a noise 
problem. So why look for a solution to a nonexistent problem?

BTW I do use the Android app Wifi Analyzer to see what channel my 
neighbor is so I can stay off it. Probably helps the speed a bit.

But since that one app worked I didn't go looking for more solutions. 
That would be a waste of time.

> I use my phone as a diagnostic tool.
> There is no ethernet connection on the phone.

A tech guy like you doesn't have a laptop with an ethernet port??

> And the router may or may not allow remote access.
> And, even if it did, the neighbor may or may not remember their password.
> (I can't count the number of times I have had to reset routers to factory
> defaults just to log in.)

Probably a good idea to reset anyway if the neighbor originally set it up.

> Again, your toolbox is apparently spartan.
> 1. Screwdrivers
> 2. Wrenches
> 3. Hammers

I do have devices with ethernet ports so don't need any wrenches. But if 
I didn't I'd probably get a micro USB ethernet adapter. Just checked and 
they start around 10 bucks.

> Plus, if you're outside, and the router is inside, you can't connect an
> ethernet cable to the windows.

Snigger. Really? And what if you're stuck on the roof and the router is 
inside and located behind the toilet?

> Tell me how you access your neighbor's routers (which is what I do all the
> time)?

I've never tried. I don't look in his windows either.

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#33564

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-20 01:21 +0000
Message-ID<np8bar$gsq$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33561
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:57:51 -0700, AL wrote:

>> b. Some give up after finding multiple easy solutions (that's me)
>  > ...And I find *multiple* solutions - if they exist.
> 
> After a problem is solved why waste time finding more solutions?

If everyone had that attitude, nobody would learn anything.


> If the noise is "all over the band" changing channels won't help.

You interpreted that differently than I had meant it.

In a way, you are correct though, in that I was previously on 2.4GHz, which
has noise in lots of places - so now I'm on 5GHz Internet and things are
much quieter.

> Since my rated 50 Mbps service (Cox) just measured at 63 Mbps at 40 ft 
> from the router on this T100 tablet I don't think I have a noise 
> problem. So why look for a solution to a nonexistent problem?

Your Internet comes in on a cable.
Mine comes over the air, from about 10 miles away.

So, with a 20-mile round trip just to connect to my access point, you can
imagine that signal-to-noise ratio starts becoming important.

> BTW I do use the Android app Wifi Analyzer to see what channel my 
> neighbor is so I can stay off it. Probably helps the speed a bit.

Yes. WiFi Analyzer is great. We're lucky we're on Android because we have
access to so many great *graphical* tools that the iOS guys would die to
have access to.

We have WiFi Analyzer, InSSIDer, WiFi SNR, Fritz WLan, GTech Net Tools,
etc., all of which are worlds better than what those poor iOS folks have
access to.

> But since that one app worked I didn't go looking for more solutions. 
> That would be a waste of time.

I have *many* WiFi solutions, including sniffer tools such as wardriving
tools and net stumblers. Each one shows additional data in different ways.

It's like having more than one screwdriver in your toolbox.
 
> A tech guy like you doesn't have a laptop with an ethernet port??

Sure. But the phone is more convenient.
 
> Probably a good idea to reset anyway if the neighbor originally set it up.

It's amazing how many people don't know the first thing about their
routers. Mostly I find them to be the Apple folks - but some Android people
fall into that category too.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33571

FromAL <noemail@none.com>
Date2016-08-20 00:05 -0700
Message-ID<EiTtz.69516$Si4.40095@fx37.iad>
In reply to#33564
On 8/19/2016 6:21 PM, Aardvarks wrote:

> Your Internet comes in on a cable.
> Mine comes over the air, from about 10 miles away.
>
> So, with a 20-mile round trip just to connect to my access point, you can
> imagine that signal-to-noise ratio starts becoming important.

No more important than the router to device link. a chain is only as 
strong as...

> WiFi Analyzer is great. We're lucky we're on Android because we have
> access to so many great *graphical* tools that the iOS guys would die to
> have access to.

Your worry over the death of the iOS guys is greatly exaggerated. I just 
checked the Apple App Store. There are several graphical analyzers that 
are equivalent to my Android WiFi Analyzer. Some even list the devices 
connected to the network.

> It's amazing how many people don't know the first thing about their
> routers.

Yup. And that knowledge is very important when one gets locked out of 
his house and needs to adjust the router inside, or doesn't have an 
ethernet cable, or doesn't have a device with an ethernet port handy, or 
couldn't physically access the router, or needs to peek into his 
neighbor's router. My-o-my, what a life you must lead...  8-O

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#33545

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-08-19 10:37 -0400
Message-ID<190820161037258628%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#33535
In article <np65m7$10v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> 
> >> Linux, amazingly, doesn't have the capability to *accurately* tell you all
> >> the devices that are connected to the router.
> > 
> > I suppose it depends on the router. I can get that info from 
> > mine in any browser using any OS.
> 
> The router *does* tell you accurately what is connected.

not always. it depends on the router and network topology. 

> So does Fing.

not always. some devices may not respond, for various reasons.

> But *nothing* else on Linux does.

wrong.

> Which is odd. 
> But it is a fact.

it is not.

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#33550

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-19 16:58 +0000
Message-ID<np7dqu$1758$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33545
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 10:37:25 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> The router *does* tell you accurately what is connected.
> 
> not always. it depends on the router and network topology. 

This is true. But that's a whole different level of technical detail.

>> So does Fing.
> 
> not always. some devices may not respond, for various reasons.

Yes. Very true. 
But too deep for this newgroup.


>> But *nothing* else on Linux does.
> 
> wrong.

Now you sound like nospam.
Oh wait, I just belatedly looked at who was responding - heh heh ....  
you *are* nospam!

I already know you cannot list a single native linux tool that does this
because people who know far more than you and I about linux networking have
concluded the same thing.

>> Which is odd. 
>> But it is a fact.
> 
> it is not.

I'm gonna be blunt with you.
There are no native tools on Linux which list this information.
That has already been shown in the thread I pointed to, which had tons of
gory detail.

For you to say what you say, without a single 'character' of detail, just
show your total lack of character. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33553

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-08-19 13:11 -0400
Message-ID<190820161311263057%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#33550
In article <np7dqu$1758$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> 
> >> The router *does* tell you accurately what is connected.
> > 
> > not always. it depends on the router and network topology. 
> 
> This is true. But that's a whole different level of technical detail.

and an important one.

> >> So does Fing.
> > 
> > not always. some devices may not respond, for various reasons.
> 
> Yes. Very true. 
> But too deep for this newgroup.

not really.

> >> But *nothing* else on Linux does.
> > 
> > wrong.
> 
> Now you sound like nospam.
> Oh wait, I just belatedly looked at who was responding - heh heh ....  
> you *are* nospam!
> 
> I already know you cannot list a single native linux tool that does this
> because people who know far more than you and I about linux networking have
> concluded the same thing.

fing is not a native ios/android tool, so you don't get to restrict
things to native linux tools.

nevertheless, it's still very possible to do with native linux tools,
just takes a little more effort than by installing nmap.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33563

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-20 01:21 +0000
Message-ID<np8bap$gsq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33553
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:11:26 -0400, nospam wrote:

> fing is not a native ios/android tool, so you don't get to restrict
> things to native linux tools.

Good point.

> nevertheless, it's still very possible to do with native linux tools,
> just takes a little more effort than by installing nmap.

We tried them all.
Gory details here.
- Subject: How to list all devices on the Windows or Linux home network
- Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 to March 4, 2016
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.os.linux/fing$20|sort:relevance/alt.os.linux/EIcNPurXefg/YWpMcPbuAwAJ

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#33566

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-08-19 21:37 -0400
Message-ID<190820162137013043%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#33563
In article <np8bap$gsq$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> > fing is not a native ios/android tool, so you don't get to restrict
> > things to native linux tools.
> 
> Good point.
> 
> > nevertheless, it's still very possible to do with native linux tools,
> > just takes a little more effort than by installing nmap.
> 
> We tried them all.
> Gory details here.
> - Subject: How to list all devices on the Windows or Linux home network
> - Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 to March 4, 2016
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.os.linux/fing$20|sort:relevance
> /alt.os.linux/EIcNPurXefg/YWpMcPbuAwAJ

i read that thread yesterday and as usual, various people tried to
explain things to you and you ignored what they said.

some of the suggested methods work quite well.

this part says it all:

> > nmap is just bad. 
> > It's worse than bad because people trust it. 
> > But it gives incomplete answers. 
>
> No, it gives you the answer you ask of it, not what you think you are 
> asking.

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#33570

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-20 04:45 +0000
Message-ID<np8n9f$st1$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33566
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 21:37:01 -0400, nospam wrote:

> i read that thread yesterday and as usual, various people tried to
> explain things to you and you ignored what they said.

I have to give you credit if you actually read the thread.
But you never summarize correctly.
Sure, I tried everything suggested, but I didn't write my own software and
compile it, so, um, yeah, just like you telling me to run iTunes on Linux,
sure, you can say I didn't try everything that was suggested.

But I did try:
$ sudo arp-scan --interface=wlan0 --localnet 
$ sudo netdiscover -i wlan0 -r 192.168.1.0/24
$ sudo nmap --script broadcast-dhcp-discover -p67 192.168.1.0/24 
$ sudo fing -n 192.168.1.0/24 -r 1 

These failed to report *all* devices (hence they're useless):
$ sudo netdiscover -i wlan0 -r 192.168.1.0/24
$ sudo arp-scan --interface=wlan0 --localnet 
$ fping -a -c 1 -q -g 192.168.1.0/24 
$ sudo nmap --script broadcast-dhcp-discover -p67 192.168.1.0/24 
etc.

I even tried:
$ myscan.sh
+ sudo arp-scan --interface=wlan0 --localnet 

Where myscan.sh was the following...
#!/bin/bash

#################################################
#
#          script: myscan
#         version: .01
#            date: 2016-02-19
#              by: Marek Novotny
#      dependency: sudo, ip, app-scan
#           notes:
#
#################################################

dependencies () {
        array=(ip sudo arp-scan)
        for x in ${array[@]} ; do
                which $x &> /dev/null
                if [ $? -ne 0 ] ; then
                        echo "$(basename $0) Error: Missing dependency,
${x}..."
                        exit $?
                fi
        done
}

setSudo () {
        if [ $(id -u) -ne 0 ] ; then
                priv=sudo
        else
                priv=""
        fi
}

dependencies
setSudo

set -- $(ip route get 8.8.8.8)
defaultDev=$5

set -x
$priv arp-scan --interface=$defaultDev --localnet
set +x

# END

$ myscan | grep -i apple

192.168.1.9        3c:07:54:30:d3:9e        Apple Inc
192.168.1.71        00:11:24:6e:d8:ee        Apple Computer
192.168.1.113        00:1d:4f:49:3c:25        Apple Computer Inc.
192.168.1.118        00:17:f2:0b:1d:4a        Apple Computer
192.168.1.221        3c:07:54:67:0f:e4        Apple Inc 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33513

Fromcrankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com>
Date2016-08-18 10:03 -0600
Message-ID<np4n1j$msn$10@dont-email.me>
In reply to#33479
On 08/17/2016 11:12 AM, Aardvarks wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 05:48:30 -0600, crankypuss wrote:
>
>> Then why do you spend so much time bellyaching, are your kids just too
>> good for iOS devices, or what?
>
> I don't bellyache.

<snort>

> I try to get iOS to do things.
> Most people on iOS just give up.
> I don't give up that easily.
> You call that bellyaching.

Nah, I don't call questions bellyaching.  It's your bellyaching that I 
call bellyaching.  The world is what it is, suck it up and deal.

>
>> Dude, I have picked and poked among the boneyard of free Android apps,
>> and I do not remember a single one that didn't feel like junk compared
>> to what I'm used to on linux, which imo isn't all that great.
>
> I'm on Linux too.
> The *one* app on Android/iOS that is *better* than the same functionality
> on Linux, by far, is "Fing".
>
> Linux, amazingly, doesn't have the capability to *accurately* tell you all
> the devices that are connected to the router. I know that sounds
> impossible, but I've been through it on alt.os.linux and it's true.
>
> It's amazing. But a simple free app can tell you more accurately what's
> connected to your network than can a Linux box with root access.
>
> Other than that....
>
>> Granted, iOS is clumsy and inconsistent and lack of filesystem access
>> makes it useless for many traditional computing tasks, but since you can
>> do all those on Android there's no reason to be overly concerned, right?
>>   I find Android limiting and prefer linux for actual computing, but
>> mileage varies.  iOS is not even under consideration as a computing
>> tool, that isn't what it was built for.  It was built for joe
>> computing-illiterate citizen, and his mom, and his kids.  And maybe for
>> a few folks like me, although I do find iOS clumsy in many respects.
>
> What I find iOS & Android useful for is mapping, tracking, backtracking.

Eeww, that's nasty shit, I wouldn't do that for less than ginormous 
amounts of something more valuable than money.  OTOH, I *live* in a 
place that's probably a lot like the places you bust your ass to hike 
to, so "camping out" is like, so what, sit on the back porch and you're 
as close to nature as you're gonna get anywhere.

> You can't really do that on a linux laptop because it's missing native GPS.

Whatever floats your boat.

>
>> Originally I looked at buying a MacBook because although linux has been
>> around for decades, due to its development environment the constant
>> thrashing makes it effectively early-beta-level code imo, and that isn't
>> really adequate for some things.  Then I thought some more about what I
>> wanted, and that was to get email and shopping and a few other fugly
>> office things *off* my development boxes and onto something that could
>> be used for the fugly-office-crap and would continue working even though
>> I might destroy the linux kernel from time to time. And the Apple
>> devices that I have (iPad, iPhone) do a splendid job of dealing with
>> fugly office things like keeping my calendar current on both devices etc.
>
> My main problems with macbooks, despite nospam screaming that they're not
> more expensive, is that they're more expensive. Sure, we can cherry pick
> but overall, they're more expensive for the same thing.

I don't agree.  I think that the laptops that run Windows are such cheap 
shit overall that a MacBook just *looks* overpriced because you're used 
to paying $300 for a cheap box.  I know this, I've had lots of cheap 
Windows boxes that Windows was removed from in favor of linux.

The Dell XPS-13 that I'm running right now, writing this post from, cost 
$1649 out the door.  It's hardware is about equivalent to a MacBook Air 
13-inch with i7 and 256G SSD except it has backlit keyboard and 
3200x1800 pixels and is the size of a MacBook 12" though it has 
touchscreen and the MacBook doesn't; the MacBook Air configured as close 
as possible to equivalency costs $1199.

You're probably used to buying something like my Acer Aspire E3-111-P60S 
which is a decent laptop for $300 if you add a nice SSD.  But it's built 
cheap and won't last long.  I know that from having used up several of them.

Cheap is in the eye of the beholder.  I can do *everything* that I need 
to do on an ancient Acer too old to have bluetooth that only runs 32bit 
code and cost $80 used.

>
> Plus, Apple makes decisions I would never make

Yes, me too, but they are them and they have their reasons and I expect 
most of those have $$$$ attached to them.

> - so I'm fine with Kubuntu
> or Windows XP. Both work better, IMHO, than OSX but I have very little
> experience with OSX (and hated every moment of it) - so take that with a
> grain of NaCl.
>
>> Sure, I could make either of my Android boxes do all that stuff, but
>> then I'd be dependent on a lot of linux-like thrash-ware, I'd have to
>> pick through the Android apps and configure a bunch of stuff and have
>> almost as much fun with that bullshit as I have configuring linux.
>
> What a mobile device is good for is not what a laptop is good for.

In that I think you are very mistaken.  Install linux on an ASUS T100 
and you have the best of both worlds.  Just no backlit keyboard, and 
their UEFI Firmware seems a bit broken, but you can run linux on it and 
it does fine in the speed department with a surprisingly bright clear 
screen.  Unfortunately linux has to be laboriously configured to make 
sleep work the way it does on a regular tablet.

> I wouldn't do anything on a mobile device that required sheer compute
> power.
> Nor would I do anything that requires a lot of typing.
>
> But it's good for mapping.

And your kids can play with it until naptime. <g>

>
>> An iOS device is like one of those calculators we used to have sitting
>> on our desks, it does a specific job, not everything.  If you want the
>> perfect box that does everything, you gotta make your own.  You can not
>> cajole Apple into making what you want, you represent zero profit while
>> Joe Average is where the purchasing dollars are, and Apple thinks they
>> know what Joe wants.
>
> I must agree. I represent zero profit not only to Apple, but also to the
> Android stores. And to the advertisers. And to the hardware guys (since my
> Android phone was bought in 2012 and is working fine except that I wore out
> the USB connector and a few batteries).
>
> I'm the opposite of a whale.
>
>> It will be interesting to observe how Apple deals with an increasingly
>> computer-literate demographic, but I expect iOS to remain largely as it
>> is (though improved), and the Mac side of their offerings to be where
>> we'll see the innovations that motivate Experienced Joe to spend money,
>> not on the iPad and iPhone that just do their little jobs and keep
>> working while Experienced Joe has learned to want more.
>
> You have to admit that the average iOS user is *nothing* like what we're
> used to dealing with on the Windows and Linux forums. Nothing.

Most of the iOS users I've had actual contact with have been inside the 
local Apple store and they seemed a lot better at the 
smiling-sales-patter than at technical know-how; not that going to 
Best-Buy is any different except the clerks at BB might be more willing 
to admit ignorance.

>
> They're mostly like the people who post on the iOS newsgroups, of which
> there are only three types. The oddest thing is that you only get two types
> on Android newsgroups.
>
> The one unique type that is odd on the iOS newsgroups are the ones who will
> lie and tell a mistruth and repeat that mistruth forever, simply because
> you ask a question that they don't like the true answer to.
>
> So they give you the answer *they* would like to give you if they were
> writing the marketing literature on the subject (even though the solution
> they decree can't possibly work for you). And the only way you know it's
> dead wrong is that when you try it, it can't work. Only after you try it,
> you realize they knew all along that it couldn't work. So they lie.
>
> It's used to be so frustrating as to *why* they lie - but I've finally
> figured out why, so I am no longer frustrated by their incessant lies.
>
> Other than those iOS-only oddballs, the other two types of users on iOS are
> the same as the two types of users on Android.
>

Like what, I'm gonna take your word about what I can observe for myself? 
  I don't think so.

-- 
http://totally-portable-software.blogspot.com
   [Sat Mar 26: "Documentation and Portability"]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33518

FromAL <noemail@none.com>
Date2016-08-18 10:03 -0700
Message-ID<tTltz.24686$Ox5.21509@fx31.iad>
In reply to#33513
On 8/18/2016 9:03 AM, crankypuss wrote:

> Install linux on an ASUS T100
> and you have the best of both worlds.  Just no backlit keyboard, and
> their UEFI Firmware seems a bit broken, but you can run linux on it and
> it does fine in the speed department with a surprisingly bright clear
> screen.  Unfortunately linux has to be laboriously configured to make
> sleep work the way it does on a regular tablet.

Small world. I'm posting on a T100. Neat toy.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33527

Fromtlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>
Date2016-08-18 18:39 -0400
Message-ID<fokid1otszwi.10fedatmie1so$.dlg@40tude.net>
In reply to#33513
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:03:27 -0600, crankypuss wrote:

>  Install linux on an ASUS T100 
> and you have the best of both worlds.  Just no backlit keyboard, and 
> their UEFI Firmware seems a bit broken, but ...

What do you find you have to do to get the touchpad to wake up to the fact
that you're dragging your finger across it? (TransformerBook T100TA here)
I find I have to start dragging vertically, even if I mean to go
horizontally, and I have to start somewhere *far* from the center of the
touchpad ... and even that's not ever a sure thing, either.

But in this, most likely, YM *will* V :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp

[PS: touch-*screen*, otoh, seems just dandy, both for touch and for sight.]
-- 
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33532

Fromcrankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com>
Date2016-08-18 20:05 -0600
Message-ID<np5pi0$ba3$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#33527
On 08/18/2016 04:39 PM, tlvp wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:03:27 -0600, crankypuss wrote:
>
>>  Install linux on an ASUS T100
>> and you have the best of both worlds.  Just no backlit keyboard, and
>> their UEFI Firmware seems a bit broken, but ...
>
> What do you find you have to do to get the touchpad to wake up to the fact
> that you're dragging your finger across it? (TransformerBook T100TA here)
> I find I have to start dragging vertically, even if I mean to go
> horizontally, and I have to start somewhere *far* from the center of the
> touchpad ... and even that's not ever a sure thing, either.
>
> But in this, most likely, YM *will* V :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp
>
> [PS: touch-*screen*, otoh, seems just dandy, both for touch and for sight.]
>

It's been a year or so since I had an ASUS, and the first thing I do is 
look for a way to turn touchpads *off* and use a mouse.  Linux doesn't 
support touchscreen very well yet as far as I've seen.  Can't say I 
recall all the detils, I didn't keep it long, there were a couple things 
about it that told me it was no-go for my purposes, like the funky UEFI 
Firmware.

-- 
http://totally-portable-software.blogspot.com
   [Sat Mar 26: "Documentation and Portability"]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33534

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-08-18 22:48 -0400
Message-ID<180820162248336840%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#33532
In article <np5pi0$ba3$3@dont-email.me>, crankypuss
<undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> wrote:

> > What do you find you have to do to get the touchpad to wake up to the fact
> > that you're dragging your finger across it? (TransformerBook T100TA here)
> > I find I have to start dragging vertically, even if I mean to go
> > horizontally, and I have to start somewhere *far* from the center of the
> > touchpad ... and even that's not ever a sure thing, either.
> >
> > But in this, most likely, YM *will* V :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp
> >
> > [PS: touch-*screen*, otoh, seems just dandy, both for touch and for sight.]
> >
> 
> It's been a year or so since I had an ASUS, and the first thing I do is 
> look for a way to turn touchpads *off* and use a mouse.  Linux doesn't 
> support touchscreen very well yet as far as I've seen.  Can't say I 
> recall all the detils, I didn't keep it long, there were a couple things 
> about it that told me it was no-go for my purposes, like the funky UEFI 
> Firmware.

try using a trackpad that doesn't suck.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33556

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2016-08-19 19:12 +0000
Message-ID<e1p40tFp0mrU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#33513
crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> You're probably used to buying something like my Acer Aspire E3-111-P60S 
> which is a decent laptop for $300 if you add a nice SSD.  But it's built 
> cheap and won't last long.  I know that from having used up several of them.

  Maybe, but I doubt it, for $300 laptops, but I have no such experience
with $500-$600 laptops, which still are half price or less of a MacBook.

  My two laptops is this price range each lasted 7 to 8 years and were
mostly obsoleted by having to little memory/storage, not by breaking
down. And these laptops, were schlepped all over, including in 4WDs on
thousands of Ks of very rocky roads.

  But, as usual, YMMV and probably YMWV.

[...]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33558

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-08-19 15:25 -0400
Message-ID<190820161525074276%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#33556
In article <e1p40tFp0mrU1@mid.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > You're probably used to buying something like my Acer Aspire E3-111-P60S 
> > which is a decent laptop for $300 if you add a nice SSD.  But it's built 
> > cheap and won't last long.  I know that from having used up several of them.
> 
>   Maybe, but I doubt it, for $300 laptops, but I have no such experience
> with $500-$600 laptops, which still are half price or less of a MacBook.

and with a lesser spec.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33576

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2016-08-20 14:00 +0000
Message-ID<e1r64dF94asU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#33558
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <e1p40tFp0mrU1@mid.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > > You're probably used to buying something like my Acer Aspire E3-111-P60S 
> > > which is a decent laptop for $300 if you add a nice SSD.  But it's built 
> > > cheap and won't last long.  I know that from having used up several of them.
> > 
> >   Maybe, but I doubt it, for $300 laptops, but I have no such experience
> > with $500-$600 laptops, which still are half price or less of a MacBook.
> 
> and with a lesser spec.

  It's not about specs, but about quality (as described in the part you
snipped).

  And I was wrong, it's 1/4 to 1/5 of the price. And yes, at 4 - 5 times
the price, you get 'better' specs (better display and less storage, but
SSD), fancy *that*!

  So get a grip/clue/life, Apple products are *only* very high end and
in that niche, they may or may not offer equal/better value for money.
Big fsck-ing deal!

  Question: Why do you care about products for which Apple has no
comparible-price solution?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33579

FromAL <noemail@none.com>
Date2016-08-20 09:45 -0700
Message-ID<LO%tz.20652$TN2.4777@fx08.iad>
In reply to#33576
On 8/20/2016 7:00 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

>Apple products are *only* very high end and
> in that niche, they may or may not offer equal/better value for money.

Perhaps not so much a better value as a better experience. Apple 
products are easier to use and just work (IMO).

In the past, Windows updates have broken software parts of several of my 
devices. For example one update to an HP laptop reversed the brightness 
control. I never found a solution. No big deal but still annoying. 
Currently the W10 update is breaking millions of cameras. In all the 
years of updates to the wife's Apple devices there has been nary a 
glitch. They just worked.

(BTW in recent years I've turned Windows Update off right after buying a 
new device so that it continues to work as designed. I'd rather take my 
chances with the boogeyman than Windows.)

After the first few months there were never any upgrades offered on my 
last 2 Android phones. The wife's phone (and iPads) have been kept up to 
date.

So the premium is worth it to me if just for marital contentment. That 
we endlessly argue Android vs. Apple here as religions just makes the 
place more interesting. Again IMO of course...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33581

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2016-08-20 18:42 +0000
Message-ID<e1rmliFd3d7U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#33579
[Severe drift ahead! Proceed at your own risk!]

AL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> On 8/20/2016 7:00 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> 
> > Apple products are *only* very high end and
> > in that niche, they may or may not offer equal/better value for money.
> 
> Perhaps not so much a better value as a better experience. Apple 
> products are easier to use and just work (IMO).

  I'm sure they are and do. I don't think any sane person is going to
argue about that! :-)

> In the past, Windows updates have broken software parts of several of my 
> devices. For example one update to an HP laptop reversed the brightness 
> control. I never found a solution. No big deal but still annoying. 

  I've never had such problems, but I fully agree that the Windows
update mechanism is a gigantic PITA.

> Currently the W10 update is breaking millions of cameras.

  Don't get me started! An early W10 upgrade was forced on me, because
there was no bail-out option. Took me many hours till I again had a
clean 8.1 system.

>							    In all the 
> years of updates to the wife's Apple devices there has been nary a 
> glitch. They just worked.

  AFAIK, LSWMBO has the same experience. She never talks about it, but
why would she talk about a non-event!? :-)

[...]

> After the first few months there were never any upgrades offered on my 
> last 2 Android phones. The wife's phone (and iPads) have been kept up to 
> date.

  Yeah, if Apple would make/sell low(er) end smart-phones and tablets,
this world would be a better place!

> So the premium is worth it to me if just for marital contentment. That 
> we endlessly argue Android vs. Apple here as religions just makes the 
> place more interesting. Again IMO of course...

  For me, the premium (of having to buy a very high end device) is not
worth it, also because it would take an immense amount of time to figure
out which software is suitable and comparable (or 'better') to my
current software, learning to use it, configuring it, etc., etc.. But
that's just *my* situation, for others their MMV and probably their MWV.

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