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Life after Windows 7

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  Life after Windows 7 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-05-21 13:07 +1000
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2019-05-21 07:27 +0000
      Re: Life after Windows 7 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-05-21 19:17 +1000
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> - 2019-05-21 11:09 +0100
      Re: Life after Windows 7 mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2019-05-29 18:19 +0100
        Re: Life after Windows 7 ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2019-05-29 21:19 -0500
          Re: Life after Windows 7 mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2019-05-30 17:24 +0100
            Re: Life after Windows 7 mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2019-06-02 19:11 +0100
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-05-21 10:14 +0000
      Re: Life after Windows 7 "Dirk T. Verbeek" <dverbeek@xs4all.nl> - 2019-05-21 12:54 +0200
        Re: Life after Windows 7 Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-05-21 10:58 +0000
        Re: Life after Windows 7 kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2019-05-21 12:28 -0400
          Re: Life after Windows 7 Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-05-21 19:49 +0000
          Re: Life after Windows 7 RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-05-22 22:30 -0400
          Re: Life after Windows 7 Stephen Hall <s__hall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-07 20:54 +0000
            Re: Life after Windows 7 RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-06-07 23:07 -0400
              Re: Life after Windows 7 Ryan Kavanagh <rkavanagh@cs.cmu.edu> - 2019-06-08 12:30 -0400
            Re: Life after Windows 7 kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2019-06-08 10:11 -0400
              Re: Life after Windows 7 Stephen Hall <s__hall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-08 19:31 +0000
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-05-21 10:47 +0000
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-05-21 11:28 +0000
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net> - 2019-05-21 08:43 -0400
    Re: Life after Windows 7 mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2019-05-29 18:16 +0100
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Steve555 <Steve555@reallybogus.nodomain.nowhere.invalid> - 2019-06-16 23:00 +0000
      Re: Life after Windows 7 Steve555 <Steve555@reallybogus.nodomain.nowhere.invalid> - 2019-06-16 23:18 +0000
        Re: Life after Windows 7 Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-06-17 08:40 +0000
      Re: Life after Windows 7 Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-06-17 08:35 +0000

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#18024 — Life after Windows 7

I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months 
left before Windows 7 support ceases.

I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for 
any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several 
systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).

Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see 
Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up 
dealing with the issues that arise when its behaviour its modified 
without warning with updates.

Actually, I'm not sure why I'm posting this. Maybe I'm just hoping for 
some reassurance that things won't be that bad.

Probably the wrong group for that.

Sylvia.

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#18025

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months 
> left before Windows 7 support ceases.

I never moved past XP as far as Windows goes.

> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for 
> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several 
> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).

Wine can also work well, sometimes, other times maybe after a bit of
tinkering.

> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see 
> Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up 
> dealing with the issues that arise when its behaviour its modified 
> without warning with updates.

For me, in one such case the PC was only used for photos so XP still
does that job fine there. In the other, Windows 10 was installed in
a determination to "keep with the times" and since then often greets
my attempts to check on it with an hour or so of "updating, 90%"
before finally letting me in, quite possibly to find that my default
settings have been automatically reverted (and may offer some
resistance to being set back again). It also seems to be
significantly slower to boot than it was when first installed, even
with many unwanted background tasks disabled.

At least backing up is still easy - if done after booting to a Linux
CD.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#18026

On 21/05/2019 5:27 pm, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months
>> left before Windows 7 support ceases.
> 
> I never moved past XP as far as Windows goes.
> 
>> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for
>> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several
>> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).
> 
> Wine can also work well, sometimes, other times maybe after a bit of
> tinkering.

I knew it existed many years ago. I hadn't realised it was still a 
thing. I'll take a look in due course.

Sylvia.

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#18027

On 21/05/2019 04:07, Sylvia Else wrote:
> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months 
> left before Windows 7 support ceases.
> 
> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for 
> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several 
> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).
> 
> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see 
> Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up 
> dealing with the issues that arise when its behaviour its modified 
> without warning with updates.

Since they've missed the free upgrade period and will have to buy Win10 
then new hardware is on the cards. A new machine with Win10 (provided 
it's not super-cheap) will run fine and they have just the learning 
curve and migration to worry about.

If a new machine is not feasible from a cost pov then a conversion to 
Linux using something like Zorin OS would ensure the old machine could 
continue to be used but the data backup and restore is a PITA and guess 
who's going to get the blame if that goes wrong?

> 
> Actually, I'm not sure why I'm posting this. Maybe I'm just hoping for 
> some reassurance that things won't be that bad.

You can spell out the options for them:

1) Spend money on a new machine that looks different but you'll get the 
hang of it; and may or may not run all their old programs and may or may 
not support all their old peripherals. Blame Microsoft for this.

2) Cheap approach. Stay with same hardware and convert to Linux but may 
or may not run blah blah etc, as before. Also Blame Microsoft for 
forcing them to change. ;-)

3) Stay as they are and run at risk. Good backups and vigilance around 
fake calls from the bank go a long way to mitigate this.

4) Keep quiet and feign ignorance if something goes wrong. ;-)

> Probably the wrong group for that.

:-)


-- 
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey
England
(bruce at scorecrow dot com)

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#18080

On 21/05/2019 11:09, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> Since they've missed the free upgrade period and will have to buy Win10

I think you'll find your genuine W7/W8 key will unlock the same level of 
W10. i.e. W7 Pro 64 key unlocks W10 Pro 64.

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#18081

mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 21/05/2019 11:09, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> > Since they've missed the free upgrade period and will have to buy Win10

> I think you'll find your genuine W7/W8 key will unlock the same level of 
> W10. i.e. W7 Pro 64 key unlocks W10 Pro 64.

When one unlock W10, does the old key still work in W7 if W7 is still used?

-- 
Quote of the Week: "I used to command a battalion of German ants." --Tom
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
 / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
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#18082

On 30/05/2019 03:19, Ant wrote:
> mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 21/05/2019 11:09, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
>>> Since they've missed the free upgrade period and will have to buy Win10
>
>> I think you'll find your genuine W7/W8 key will unlock the same level of
>> W10. i.e. W7 Pro 64 key unlocks W10 Pro 64.
>
> When one unlock W10, does the old key still work in W7 if W7 is still used?
>
AFAIK Windows keys tend to become usable again sometime after use as 
long as you haven't needed to use it for whatever you last used it for.

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#18100

On 30/05/2019 17:24, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 30/05/2019 03:19, Ant wrote:
>> mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 21/05/2019 11:09, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
>>>> Since they've missed the free upgrade period and will have to buy Win10
>>
>>> I think you'll find your genuine W7/W8 key will unlock the same level of
>>> W10. i.e. W7 Pro 64 key unlocks W10 Pro 64.
>>
>> When one unlock W10, does the old key still work in W7 if W7 is still 
>> used?
>>
> AFAIK Windows keys tend to become usable again sometime after use as 
> long as you haven't needed to use it for whatever you last used it for.
> 
> 

This PC was bought with a pre-installed Windows setup. Normally I build 
desktops/towers but didn't have time and needed something in a hurry. 
The licence was for Win8 64 Pro downgrade, i.e. it came with Win7 64 Pro 
installed and disks for Win8. It was cheaper to buy it with Windows than 
without.

I needed a W10 machine so bought some new RAM and SSD, installed them 
and booted a W10 DVD and selected W10 Pro 64. It installed and asked for 
a key which I skipped. 10-20mins of disk led activity and it rebooted a 
few times. When I checked it had decided to validate itself using the 
licence key which is in the BIOS Flash. So a 2015 Win8 licence built in 
the machine validated a latest Win10 1903 release.

I was going to make the primary OS Mint and run W10 in a VM but I had to 
get a W10 machine working this weekend and I didn't have time to play. I 
have Debian installed and running under WSL and it seems fine. I 
probably will make Mint the primary OS and move W10 to a VM but later.

However, a valid Win 8 key validates the latest W10 for those who need 
such stuff.

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#18029

On 2019-05-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months 
> left before Windows 7 support ceases.
>
> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for 
> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several 
> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).
>
> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see 
> Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up 
> dealing with the issues 

I want to know who is going to help migrate my Mother from W7
to W10 (as well as probably buy her a new computer to run it on),
bearing in mind that she's 86 and lives 3500 miles away. Personally,
I hope Bill Gates dies screaming in a puddle of his own wastes while
large crowds point and laugh.


-- 
Today is Sweetmorn, the 68th day of Discord in the YOLD 3185
       Comes in bells, your servant, don't forsake him 

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#18031

Op 21-05-19 om 12:14 schreef Huge:
> On 2019-05-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months
>> left before Windows 7 support ceases.
>>
>> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for
>> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several
>> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).
>>
>> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see
>> Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up
>> dealing with the issues
> 
> I want to know who is going to help migrate my Mother from W7
> to W10 (as well as probably buy her a new computer to run it on),
> bearing in mind that she's 86 and lives 3500 miles away.

This calls for Teamviewer or similar.
Although Linux offers ways for remote support Teamviewer is compatible 
with Windows and Linux and dead easy to use, even for your mother.
All providing the computer will boot...

> Personally,
> I hope Bill Gates dies screaming in a puddle of his own wastes while
> large crowds point and laugh.
> 
> 

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#18032

On 2019-05-21, Dirk T. Verbeek <dverbeek@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Op 21-05-19 om 12:14 schreef Huge:
>> On 2019-05-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months
>>> left before Windows 7 support ceases.
>>>
>>> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for
>>> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several
>>> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).
>>>
>>> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see
>>> Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up
>>> dealing with the issues
>> 
>> I want to know who is going to help migrate my Mother from W7
>> to W10 (as well as probably buy her a new computer to run it on),
>> bearing in mind that she's 86 and lives 3500 miles away.
>
> This calls for Teamviewer or similar.

I already have it. Can't install a new O/S that way. And, TBH, I'm
not that familiar with W10 anyway. We're a non-Windows shop. I'd
move my Mum to a Mac, but I know she wouldn't be able to cope, which
worries me about changing to Win10.

> Although Linux offers ways for remote support Teamviewer is compatible 
> with Windows and Linux and dead easy to use, even for your mother.

Yep, I know, we use it already. Supporting her would be impossible
without it.

> All providing the computer will boot...

Yeah. Been there, done that, when the CMOS battery in her machine died. I
talked her through booting it up and then she didn't switch it off until
I next visited.



-- 
Today is Sweetmorn, the 68th day of Discord in the YOLD 3185
       Comes in bells, your servant, don't forsake him 

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#18035

>> Personally,
>> I hope Bill Gates dies screaming in a puddle of his own wastes while
>> large crowds point and laugh.

I am pleased to report that the first boot of the new x86 port of OpenVMS
ran this past Monday.  Soon all your old vax code will run just fine on
the latest HP PC server hardware.

The whole world is not just like the Windows world.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#18036

On 2019-05-21, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>>> Personally,
>>> I hope Bill Gates dies screaming in a puddle of his own wastes while
>>> large crowds point and laugh.
>
> I am pleased to report that the first boot of the new x86 port of OpenVMS
> ran this past Monday.  Soon all your old vax code will run just fine on
> the latest HP PC server hardware.

I'm deeply impressed, but I'm afraid I left the DEC world shortly after
the VAX started to become popular, and only worked on VMS very briefly (I
wrote a workflow system for our translation department in DCL.) I moved
to Sun & Unix & never returned.

> The whole world is not just like the Windows world.

Oh, indeed. I've never personally owned a Windows machine, and I doubt
I ever will (I've used the abomination, but only when forced to by
employers.)



-- 
Today is Sweetmorn, the 68th day of Discord in the YOLD 3185
       Comes in bells, your servant, don't forsake him 

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#18037

On 2019-05-21, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
> I am pleased to report that the first boot of the new x86 port of
> OpenVMS ran this past Monday.  Soon all your old vax code will run
> just fine on the latest HP PC server hardware.

Now there's an OS I've got some nostalgia for. Given hard little CISC
hardware exists these days, being able to run it on x86 is a pretty cool
thing indeed.

Well, ARM, but besides that.

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#18131

Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>>> Personally,
>>> I hope Bill Gates dies screaming in a puddle of his own wastes while
>>> large crowds point and laugh.
> 
> I am pleased to report that the first boot of the new x86 port of OpenVMS
> ran this past Monday.

That's very interesting news. Are there any estimates on how long it will
take to make production-ready version?

I'm not familiar with VMS, but I definitely would like to play with it.

-- 
S. Hall

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#18136

On 2019-06-07, Stephen Hall <s__hall@gmail.com> wrote:
> Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> Personally,
>>>> I hope Bill Gates dies screaming in a puddle of his own wastes while
>>>> large crowds point and laugh.
>> 
>> I am pleased to report that the first boot of the new x86 port of OpenVMS
>> ran this past Monday.
>
> That's very interesting news. Are there any estimates on how long it will
> take to make production-ready version?
>
> I'm not familiar with VMS, but I definitely would like to play with it.

You should check out comp.os.vms and the entire vmsnet hierarchy - tons
of interesting stuff.  It's an OS that fascinates me too, probably
due to nostalgia but probably also because it had features that Linux
struggles to emulate even now.

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#18141

On Fri, Jun 07 2019, RS Wood wrote:
> On 2019-06-07, Stephen Hall <s__hall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>> I'm not familiar with VMS, but I definitely would like to play with it.
>
> It's an OS that fascinates me too, probably due to nostalgia but
> probably also because it had features that Linux struggles to emulate
> even now.

What main features do you have in mind / miss most? I never got to use
VMS, though I just spend a bit of time reading up on it. The
cluster-wide disk storage and "record-level locking" VMSclusters had
sounds interesting. (Maybe this is part of the filesystem/database
integration Scott mentioned earlier today?)

--
|)|/  Ryan Kavanagh      | GPG: 4E46 9519 ED67 7734 268F
|\|\  https://rak.ac     |      BD95 8F7B F8FC 4A11 C97A

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#18138

Stephen Hall  <s__hall@gmail.com> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> Personally,
>>>> I hope Bill Gates dies screaming in a puddle of his own wastes while
>>>> large crowds point and laugh.
>> 
>> I am pleased to report that the first boot of the new x86 port of OpenVMS
>> ran this past Monday.
>
>That's very interesting news. Are there any estimates on how long it will
>take to make production-ready version?

Nobody is taking bets yet, in part because the first boot was delayed later
than any of the bets.  I would not be surprised if a beta version was
available within a year, though.

>I'm not familiar with VMS, but I definitely would like to play with it.

SimH will simulate a number of architectures, including the vax, and it
is possible to get a hobbyist license for older versions of VMS which will
run under SimH.  This gives you an opportunity to try out an older version
of the OS.  It's kind of cool; the filesystem is integrated with a database
in a way that you don't see in other operating systems today.  But, you might
want to hold out for the native version because it's going to have some 
additionally cool stuff for integration with a modern computing environment,
which you won't see in older versions.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#18143

Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

> SimH will simulate a number of architectures, including the vax, and it
> is possible to get a hobbyist license for older versions of VMS which will
> run under SimH.  This gives you an opportunity to try out an older version
> of the OS.

I'll wait for the port to be done. I support diversity in IT world, I
believe it forces the companies and communities to come up with something
better all the time.

> It's kind of cool; the filesystem is integrated with a database
> in a way that you don't see in other operating systems today.  

Is it similar to IBM i, where every file is database object?

<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_i>

> Another peculiar feature is that this system was one of the earliest to
> be object-based. Unlike traditional OSes like UNIX and Windows NT there
> are no files, only objects of different types. It implemented one of the
> earliest-known systems for persistent objects.

-- 
S. Hall

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#18030

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Sylvia Else wrote:
> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months 
> left before Windows 7 support ceases.
>
> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for 
> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several 
> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).
>
> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members [...]

Depends on what they do.  The ones who just need their facebook /
youtube / etc. have taken to Linux quite readily.

"Yes, $family, this looks a little different.  But so does W8/10 --
here, take a look at my work laptop..." [fam: Ohh, yeah, I think I like
the looks of this one better...]

The only real troublesome people were the ones who didn't want to learn
new words (e.g. "Writer" instead of "Word").  But then again, they were
also quarrelsome over 9x -> XP and XP -> 7 UI changes (not to mention
"The Ribbon"); so they got the ultimatum of "you either use this, and I
keep helping you, or you get W10 and figure it out on your own."

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-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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