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email and time to think

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  email and time to think RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-03-28 11:31 -0400
    Re: email and time to think Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-03-28 15:33 +0000
      Re: email and time to think Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2019-03-28 20:26 +0000
        Re: email and time to think RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> - 2019-03-28 21:27 -0400
          Re: email and time to think Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2019-03-29 03:17 -0300
            Re: email and time to think Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-29 10:05 +0000
              Re: email and time to think Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2019-03-29 16:46 -0300
                Re: email and time to think RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-03-29 21:49 -0400
                  Re: email and time to think Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2019-03-31 17:27 -0300
            Re: email and time to think Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2019-03-29 20:20 +0000
            Re: email and time to think Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-03-29 21:17 +0000
              Re: email and time to think scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2019-04-01 16:28 +0000
                Re: email and time to think Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-04-02 01:29 +0000
                  Re: email and time to think RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-04-02 21:00 -0400
                    Re: email and time to think Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-04-03 14:33 +0000
                      email threading Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2019-04-03 16:00 +0000
                        Re: email threading Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-04-03 16:59 +0000
                          Re: email threading scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2019-04-05 16:26 +0000
                            Re: email threading RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-04-05 21:55 -0400
                          Re: email threading Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2019-04-07 05:15 +0000
                            Re: email threading Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-04-08 01:30 +0000
                          Re: email threading Pabst Blue Ribbon <pabst@blue.ribbon> - 2019-04-10 14:18 +0000
                        Re: email threading Dmitry Alexandrov <321942@gmail.com> - 2019-04-11 04:12 +0300
          Re: email and time to think Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-03-29 21:11 +0000
            Re: email and time to think Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-03-31 15:32 +0100
    Re: email and time to think Oregonian Haruspex <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2019-03-29 06:36 +0000
    Re: email and time to think visiblink <visiblink@mail.invalid> - 2019-03-29 19:56 -0700
    Re: email and time to think Dostoevsky <dosdoevsky@protonmail.com> - 2019-03-29 23:35 -0500

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#17664 — email and time to think

Came across a link to this service, pony:
https://www.pony.gg/

They deliver your email once a day, ending the constant barrage of
interrupting messages that impede deep concentration at work.  The
modern office, in my case at least and it's true of everyone else I
know although I suspect most of Usenet is retired now or working from
home, a neverending cascade of email, phone calls, skype,
skype-for-biz, and now text messages and whatsapp notifications (each
interrupting the previous).  Tough staying focused.

In hindsight, POP3 permitted a better lifestyle: connect, download
mail, deal with it, get back to work.  Polling email mechanisms mean
there's never a break.  I'd briefly considered a system where
sendmail/postfix deliver twice a day - 8AM and 3PM, leaving the rest of
the day to get stuff done.  Pros told me my employees would hate it.
But they also hate the never ending barrage, too.

Always-On is Always No Fun.

I do like Pony's tag line: "Use Pony for anything that isn't urgent.
Which is basically everything."

-- 
RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com>

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#17665

On 2019-03-28, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> Came across a link to this service, pony:
> https://www.pony.gg/
>
> They deliver your email once a day, ending the constant barrage of
> interrupting messages that impede deep concentration at work.  The
> modern office, in my case at least and it's true of everyone else I
> know although I suspect most of Usenet is retired now or working from
> home, a neverending cascade of email, phone calls, skype,
> skype-for-biz, and now text messages and whatsapp notifications (each
> interrupting the previous).  Tough staying focused.

Even before I was retired, I ignored all that cr@p when I was doing
anything that required Deep Thought.

-- 
Today is Boomtime, the 14th day of Discord in the YOLD 3185
1. What power do you have?  2. Where did you get it?  3. In whose
interests do you exercise it?  4. To whom are you accountable?  5. How
                  can we get rid of you?

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#17667

Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-03-28, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>> Came across a link to this service, pony:
>> https://www.pony.gg/
>>
>> They deliver your email once a day, ending the constant barrage of
>> interrupting messages that impede deep concentration at work.  The
>> modern office, in my case at least and it's true of everyone else I
>> know although I suspect most of Usenet is retired now or working from
>> home, a neverending cascade of email, phone calls, skype,
>> skype-for-biz, and now text messages and whatsapp notifications (each
>> interrupting the previous).  Tough staying focused.
> 
> Even before I was retired, I ignored all that cr@p when I was doing
> anything that required Deep Thought.

Me too! I had email notification turned off, I'd periodically check
the tray to see if I had any new mail. It always amazed me that anyone
could work with new emails popping open over whatever they were
working on.

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#17670

On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:26:43 -0000 (UTC)
Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> wrote:

> 
> Me too! I had email notification turned off, I'd periodically check
> the tray to see if I had any new mail. It always amazed me that anyone
> could work with new emails popping open over whatever they were
> working on.
> 

We can't, it's a nightmare. And now if people don't get an email
response quickly enough they skype you too, or whatsapp you, or call,
or all of those things.  I had some technical writing to do today and
was forced to go home and unplug the ethernet cable to be granted the
solitude to actually think/write.  

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#17675

RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> writes:

> On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:26:43 -0000 (UTC)
> Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Me too! I had email notification turned off, I'd periodically check
>> the tray to see if I had any new mail. It always amazed me that anyone
>> could work with new emails popping open over whatever they were
>> working on.

Gak!  Does that happen?  Is that a Windoes thing?  I've never been
anywhere that biff or equivalent couldn't be turned off. (And I *have*
been a few places vastly more high tech than my rural batcave.)

> We can't, it's a nightmare. And now if people don't get an email
> response quickly enough they skype you too, or whatsapp you, or
> call, or all of those things.

Hah.  I'm safe from all that but then, who's that keen to contact a
retired old geezer?

> I had some technical writing to do today and was forced to go home
> and unplug the ethernet cable to be granted the solitude to actually
> think/write.


-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#17681

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Hash: SHA256

Mike Spencer wrote:
>
> RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> writes:
> [...]
>> We can't, it's a nightmare. And now if people don't get an email
>> response quickly enough they skype you too, or whatsapp you, or
>> call, or all of those things.
>
> Hah.  I'm safe from all that but then, who's that keen to contact a
> retired old geezer?

Well, we are talking to you here, so ... "all of us?"


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-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#17683

Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:

> Mike Spencer wrote:
>
>> RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> writes:
>> [...]
>>> We can't, it's a nightmare. And now if people don't get an email
>>> response quickly enough they skype you too, or whatsapp you, or
>>> call, or all of those things.
>>
>> Hah.  I'm safe from all that but then, who's that keen to contact a
>> retired old geezer?
> 
> Well, we are talking to you here, so ... "all of us?"

Hah. Yes.  TYVM.  But if one of y'all is "keen" enough to go for skype
or whatsapp, twon't work nor will "call" when the landline is busy with
dialup net access.

Optimal if I don't answer email promptly enough: Walk [1] into my
dooryard and shout.  Best case, you get coffee and a sitdown by the
fire.  Worst case, I invoke...um... analogue countermeasures vs.
perceived spam/malware/intrusion. :-)



[1] Walk:  Preferred in any case but this time of year -- mudtime --
    driving a motor vehicle, even a 4x4, into my dooryard will
    eventuate in a call for a tow truck to enable departure. 

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#17698

On 2019-03-29, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> Optimal if I don't answer email promptly enough: Walk [1] into my
> dooryard and shout.  Best case, you get coffee and a sitdown by the
> fire.  Worst case, I invoke...um... analogue countermeasures vs.
> perceived spam/malware/intrusion. :-)

Hopefully there's whiskey in the deal, somewhere.

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#17713

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:

> On 2019-03-29, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
>> Optimal if I don't answer email promptly enough: Walk into my
>> dooryard and shout.  Best case, you get coffee and a sitdown by the
>> fire.  Worst case, I invoke...um... analogue countermeasures vs.
>> perceived spam/malware/intrusion. :-)
> 
> Hopefully there's whiskey in the deal, somewhere.

In addition to all-season dark roast coffee, I keep Glenlivet on hand
for the long, dark nights of winter, Keith's India Pale Ale in summer.
In a pinch, I think I have half a bottle squirreled away somewhere of
dynamite pear schnapps made by a fellow blacksmith in Pliezhuasen.

(The alternative "analogue countermeasures" don't involve beverages.) 

Ob CompMisc: 

Yes, the asynchronous nature of email is what makes it work for me.
OTOH, while hanging out in that there strange and alien HighTech
Environment, I saw it used as a sort of gobstopper:

   Some Guy:  You have to deal with this. The people from BigCorp will be
              here and the blivets on the groon server are down and Jud's
              code is yada yada yada...

   Other Guy: Send me email. [walks off]

Circa 1989, no Twitter, SMS, smart cell phones.  So things may have
changed.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#17685

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> 
> RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> writes:
> 
>> On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:26:43 -0000 (UTC)
>> Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> Me too! I had email notification turned off, I'd periodically check
>>> the tray to see if I had any new mail. It always amazed me that anyone
>>> could work with new emails popping open over whatever they were
>>> working on.
> 
> Gak!  Does that happen?  Is that a Windoes thing?  I've never been
> anywhere that biff or equivalent couldn't be turned off. (And I *have*
> been a few places vastly more high tech than my rural batcave.)

Windows with Outhouse.

> 
>> We can't, it's a nightmare. And now if people don't get an email
>> response quickly enough they skype you too, or whatsapp you, or
>> call, or all of those things.

Fortunately I retired well before skype whatsapp facepalm etc.

> 
> Hah.  I'm safe from all that but then, who's that keen to contact a
> retired old geezer?
> 
>> I had some technical writing to do today and was forced to go home
>> and unplug the ethernet cable to be granted the solitude to actually
>> think/write.
> 
> 

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#17687

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> 
> RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> writes:
> 
>> On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:26:43 -0000 (UTC)
>> Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> Me too! I had email notification turned off, I'd periodically check
>>> the tray to see if I had any new mail. It always amazed me that anyone
>>> could work with new emails popping open over whatever they were
>>> working on.
> 
> Gak!  Does that happen?  Is that a Windoes thing?  I've never been
> anywhere that biff or equivalent couldn't be turned off. (And I *have*
> been a few places vastly more high tech than my rural batcave.)

Older versions of MSOuthouse (outlook) used to have a default on 
feature that would pop up a modal dialog, centered on ones screen, 
anytime a new email arrived, that stated:

  New email
     OK

Sadly, because it was windows (and modal) and it was the "window on 
top", when it appeared, it also stole keyboard focus from whatever 
program one was typing in when the dialog would appear.

So, imagine, one is a fast typist, typing away in a word doc creating 
some kind of document.  The dialog pops up.  Suddenly a half sentence 
or so worth of typing has just gone down the drain, because all the 
keystrokes typed between the dialog appearing and noticing that nothing 
is appearing in word went to the dialog window, not to word.

It was even more aggrivating when it would happen while typing a 
quotation from another paper doc (assuming sufficient typing 
proficiency to look at the source doc only while typing its content 
into word).  The dialog would appear, and suddenly the quotation ended 
and the last X keystrokes (which might have been several lines or 
better worth of text) all disappeared into the ether.

Thankfully, there was a checkbox buried within the 17 tabbed, rainbow 
tab colored, configuration pane for outhouse that allowed one to turn 
off this pop-up dialog window.  But the option was defaulted to on in 
the standard install, so one had to be burnt a time or two before one 
went looking for a way to make the pain stop.

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#17718

In article <q7m21r$re7$2@dont-email.me>, Rich  <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>[description of random Outlook misfeature snipped for brevity]
>
>Thankfully, there was a checkbox buried within the 17 tabbed, rainbow 
>tab colored, configuration pane for outhouse that allowed one to turn 
>off this pop-up dialog window.  But the option was defaulted to on in 
>the standard install, so one had to be burnt a time or two before one 
>went looking for a way to make the pain stop.

The best way to make that pain stop would've been to shitcan Outlook and
install a real mail client.

  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/           Top-posting!
 \_^_/                              >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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#17723

Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
> In article <q7m21r$re7$2@dont-email.me>, Rich  <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>[description of random Outlook misfeature snipped for brevity]
>>
>>Thankfully, there was a checkbox buried within the 17 tabbed, rainbow 
>>tab colored, configuration pane for outhouse that allowed one to turn 
>>off this pop-up dialog window.  But the option was defaulted to on in 
>>the standard install, so one had to be burnt a time or two before one 
>>went looking for a way to make the pain stop.
> 
> The best way to make that pain stop would've been to shitcan Outlook and
> install a real mail client.

I fully agree.

But as this was //the work computer// and //work// locked me out of 
administrator privilege level, I had to resort to using google to 
discover exactly where within the maze of rainbow colored tabs was the 
magic "make the pain stop" checkbox.

>> You are in a maze of rainbow colored tabs, all the same...

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#17731

On 2019-04-02, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>> The best way to make that pain stop would've been to shitcan Outlook
>> and install a real mail client.
>
> I fully agree.
>
> But as this was //the work computer// and //work// locked me out of
> administrator privilege level, I had to resort to using google to 
> discover exactly where within the maze of rainbow colored tabs was the 
> magic "make the pain stop" checkbox.
>
>>> You are in a maze of rainbow colored tabs, all the same...
>

Ha! Been there.  Got to say, Outlook does the worst job of threading
messages I've ever seen.  Mutt for the win!  Once you've seen proper
threading, it's hard to understand why the whole rest of the world
doesn't work that way.  Usenet for God's sake ... it's integral,
practically.

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#17738

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> On 2019-04-02, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>> The best way to make that pain stop would've been to shitcan Outlook
>>> and install a real mail client.
>>
>> I fully agree.
>>
>> But as this was //the work computer// and //work// locked me out of
>> administrator privilege level, I had to resort to using google to 
>> discover exactly where within the maze of rainbow colored tabs was the 
>> magic "make the pain stop" checkbox.
>>
>>>> You are in a maze of rainbow colored tabs, all the same...
>>
> 
> Ha! Been there.  Got to say, Outlook does the worst job of threading
> messages I've ever seen.  Mutt for the win!  Once you've seen proper
> threading, it's hard to understand why the whole rest of the world
> doesn't work that way.  Usenet for God's sake ... it's integral,
> practically.

Yeah, and a part of the reason is likely that MS simply didn't care.  
Most 'business email' is not usenet like, it is more boss->slave(s) or 
simply back and forth on the same subject for a while.  So Outhouse's 
simple linear 'grouping' seems to work on, 98% of the time.

That, and 'threading' is actually easier on Usenet given that Usenet 
clients actually enter a proper 'references' header pointing at message 
ID's, so one does not have to parse and dissambiguate subject lines 
with everyone's clients doing different prefixes for replies.

But, mutt shows it is possible, given enough desire to fix the issue, 
with emails.  So MS certianly /could/ have fixed outhouse's threading.

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#17740 — email threading

>>>>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:

[...]

 > Most 'business email' is not usenet like, it is more boss->slave(s)
 > or simply back and forth on the same subject for a while.  So Outhouse's
 > simple linear 'grouping' seems to work on, 98% of the time.

 > That, and 'threading' is actually easier on Usenet given that Usenet
 > clients actually enter a proper 'references' header pointing at
 > message ID's, so one does not have to parse and dissambiguate subject
 > lines with everyone's clients doing different prefixes for replies.

 > But, mutt shows it is possible, given enough desire to fix the issue,
 > with emails.  So MS certianly /could/ have fixed outhouse's threading.

	Email uses In-Reply-To: header in place of Usenet's References:,
	albeit that only holds the Message-ID: of the "parent" article.
	References: typically provides a short(ish) history of ancestors
	for a given message, but I don't think I've ever seen a newsreader
	that'd make use of anything but the last entry in the list.

	No parsing of human-readable Subject: prefixes is (thankfully)
	necessary for email threading.  (So long as the MUAs in question
	aren't broken in that regard, that is.)

-- 
FSF associate member #7257  http://am-1.org/~ivan/

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#17741 — Re: email threading

In comp.misc, Ivan Shmakov  <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:
> 	Email uses In-Reply-To: header in place of Usenet's References:,
> 	albeit that only holds the Message-ID: of the "parent" article.
> 	References: typically provides a short(ish) history of ancestors
> 	for a given message, but I don't think I've ever seen a newsreader
> 	that'd make use of anything but the last entry in the list.

Try trn sometime. It can show you, eg, when there are two messages in
between missing and a subject change with a diagram like:

       (1)+-( )-( )-[2]
          |-(1)
	  \-(1)-[3]
       -<1> 

Number is subject variant, with letters it gets up to 62 or so before
glossing over the changes. The choice of <1>, (1), [1], will show
status: angle for unread and unselected, parens for read and default,
square braces for unread (but selected for read). In the above tree, the
"-<1>" shows how a post with a matching Subject:, but no References: will
be threaded. Using arrow keys you can navigate the thread tree, the
blanks ("( )") are displayed as a thread tree and a message about how the
article is unavable.

A tree like this:

	(1)-( )-(1)-( )-(1)

is typical of moderated groups that replace / rewrite message IDs. The
"missing" articles are phantoms. I see it in the mozilla.* groups.

The code to do this is in wumpus.c, a nod to early computer gaming.

> 	No parsing of human-readable Subject: prefixes is (thankfully)
> 	necessary for email threading.  (So long as the MUAs in question
> 	aren't broken in that regard, that is.)

Outlook uses a special threading header as well: Thread-Index:. I had to
add that to my mail reader a few years ago when $BOSS complained that my
messages didn't thread right. It's apparently just simple matter of
copying the value from the original to the new one, but Exchange does
modify it sometimes. A bit like how most newsreaders treat the Keywords:
header.

Elijah
------
loves the thread tree in trn

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#17765 — Re: email threading

In article <eli$1904031259@qaz.wtf>,
Eli the Bearded  <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>In comp.misc, Ivan Shmakov  <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:
>> 	Email uses In-Reply-To: header in place of Usenet's References:,
>> 	albeit that only holds the Message-ID: of the "parent" article.
>> 	References: typically provides a short(ish) history of ancestors
>> 	for a given message, but I don't think I've ever seen a newsreader
>> 	that'd make use of anything but the last entry in the list.
>
>Try trn sometime. It can show you, eg, when there are two messages in
>between missing and a subject change with a diagram like:
>
>       (1)+-( )-( )-[2]
>          |-(1)
>	  \-(1)-[3]
>       -<1> 

So I'm not the last trn user after all, it would seem. :-)

Given that it was last updated...(checking)...in 2010, I suspect many distro
managers might not want to touch something that hasn't been tweaked in that
long.

(As for me, I maintain a Gentoo ebuild for trn since it isn't in Portage.)

  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/           Top-posting!
 \_^_/                              >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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#17771 — Re: email threading

scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) writes:

> In article <eli$1904031259@qaz.wtf>,
> Eli the Bearded  <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>>In comp.misc, Ivan Shmakov  <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:
>>
>>Try trn sometime. It can show you, eg, when there are two messages in
>>between missing and a subject change with a diagram like:
>>
>>       (1)+-( )-( )-[2]
>>          |-(1)
>>	  \-(1)-[3]
>>       -<1> 
>
> So I'm not the last trn user after all, it would seem. :-)
>
> Given that it was last updated...(checking)...in 2010, I suspect many distro
> managers might not want to touch something that hasn't been tweaked in that
> long.

There'd be another around here if I could get it to install.  I've poked
at it once or twice but never actually run it.  Maybe I'll give it
another go this weekend.  Mint seems to have trn4 in the repos.

Tin is another one I play with once in a while.  Usually I prefer slrn
at home and sylpheed at work.

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#17781 — Re: email threading

>>>>> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> writes:
>>>>> In comp.misc, Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:

 >> Email uses In-Reply-To: header in place of Usenet's References:,
 >> albeit that only holds the Message-ID: of the "parent" article.
 >> References: typically provides a short(ish) history of ancestors for
 >> a given message, but I don't think I've ever seen a newsreader
 >> that'd make use of anything but the last entry in the list.

 > Try trn sometime.  It can show you, eg, when there are two messages
 > in between missing and a subject change with a diagram like:

 > (1)+-( )-( )-[2]
 >    |-(1)
 > 	  \-(1)-[3]
 > -<1> 

	It's nice to know that some software does use this information
	for good.

	Back when I've considered Trn some 15 years ago, my chief issue
	was its lack of MIME support.  Which is to say, I was expecting
	the NUA to convert whatever encoding used in the article to the
	one I use on my terminal for incoming messages; and at least to
	properly declare the one I use for outgoing ones.

	Of course, as I have since embraced monoculturalism and largely
	ceased to participate in non-English Internet fora, I may as
	well give it another try.

	A minor point is that with Emacs, I can alter the Gnus source and
	effect the changes immediately -- without even restarting Gnus
	proper (much less Emacs as a whole), which tends to make hacking
	a lot more fun (than going through the build-restart loop.)

	Also, Gnus is rather flexible as to what consider a "newsgroup."
	There're libraries to read "news" from an NNTP server, a spool
	directory, a Unix mbox file (including remotely, such as over
	SSH), a Maildir, a Debian BTS archive file [1], an IMAP server
	(I start Dovecot from Gnus for its indexing capabilities, for
	example), or an RSS feed.  Even if I switch to Trn for news, I'd
	still need some software for the rest.

[1] rsync://bugs-mirror.debian.org/bts-spool-db/

[...]

 > The code to do this is in wumpus.c, a nod to early computer gaming.

	A version of the game is still available in modern distributions,
	such as part of the bsdgames package in Debian (e. g., [2];
	though my favorite of those is Boggle.)  Unlike (sadly) many of
	the early X games (like Xlander, Xjewel or Xbattle), which is
	something I loosely plan to work on this summer.

[2] http://manpages.debian.org/wump

[...]

-- 
FSF associate member #7257  http://am-1.org/~ivan/

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