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Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants

From Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups comp.misc
Subject Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants
Date 2014-06-11 11:57 +1000
Message-ID <bvprbsFn1aeU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References <lmhki3$8fh$1@dont-email.me> <2128276478424035345.778819bob_davis_retired-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <bvo5nuFc0cvU1@mid.individual.net> <1592247867424118239.092409bob_davis_retired-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>

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On 11/06/2014 4:47 AM, Oregonian Haruspex wrote:
> Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>> On 10/06/2014 5:42 AM, Oregonian Haruspex wrote:
>>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>> http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/the-smarter-grid/new-flow-battery-aims-to-replace-gas-plants
>>>>
>>>> "Startup EnerVault will unveil tomorrow what it says is the largest
>>>> iron-chromium flow battery ever made. Installed in Turlock, Calif., the
>>>> four-hour, 250-kilowatt battery will be charged by a solar array and
>>>> power an irrigation system. The project was funded by about US $5
>>>> million from Department of Energy through the stimulus program and the
>>>> California Energy Commission." ...
>>>
>>> Sadly the IEEE seems to have a moron on "journalism" duty.  Batteries are
>>> not measured in "hours" and "kilowatts" they are properly measured in
>>> amp-hours.
>>
>> In what sense "properly"? Taken at face value, the article is saying that
>> the batteries can supply 250 kilowatts for four hours. That's a perfectly
>> reasonable way of describing the batteries. Indeed it provides more
>> information than "amp-hour", given that that figure is usually based on a
>> particular discharge rate, and doesn't indicate the amount of energy
>> delivered, which depends on the how the battery voltage varies as the battery discharges.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> A good data sheet will provide several discharge curves at different
> fractions of C, and chart the output voltage over time as well.  The
> article doesn't even tell us the working voltage of the battery!

Why do we need to know? The batteries will be connected to an inverter 
anyway. The article provides the useful information, which is the energy 
capacity, and the rate at which the energy can be delivered. The rest is 
just implementation detail.
>
> When I say that batteries are "properly" measured in amp-hours, I mean it.
> You don't have to believe me - find an electrical engineer, or a radio ham
> with one of the upgraded licenses, and ask them.
>

You seem to be substituting reading for understanding.

Sylvia.

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Thread

Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-02 10:44 +0000
  Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-02 23:47 +1000
    Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-06-03 15:20 +0100
      Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-05 22:14 +1000
        Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-06-05 20:58 +0100
          Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-06 11:57 +1000
            Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-06-06 21:14 +0100
              Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-07 13:24 +1000
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-06-06 22:49 -0600
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-07 08:33 +0200
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-07 16:44 +1000
  Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> - 2014-06-07 22:02 +0100
  Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-09 19:42 +0000
    Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-09 22:37 +0100
      Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-09 15:19 -0700
        Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-09 23:26 +0100
          Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-09 15:36 -0700
            Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-09 23:40 +0100
              Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-09 16:12 -0700
        Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-10 07:44 +0300
          Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-10 18:47 +0000
            Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-10 23:43 +0300
              Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 17:12 +0000
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-11 21:58 +0300
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-18 12:44 -0700
          Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 17:20 +0000
            Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-11 22:05 +0300
              Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 20:52 +0000
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-12 00:14 +0300
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 15:12 -0700
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-12 09:18 +0300
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-12 09:31 +0100
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-12 12:34 +0300
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-12 12:37 +0200
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-12 10:39 +0000
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-12 13:56 +0300
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-12 12:10 +0000
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-12 15:32 +0300
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-13 12:37 +0000
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-13 14:13 +0100
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-12 10:30 +0000
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-06-12 10:59 +0000
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-12 12:12 +0000
    Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-10 20:42 +1000
      Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-10 15:55 +0100
      Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-10 18:47 +0000
        Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-10 23:50 +0300
          Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 17:13 +0000
          Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Randy Westlund <Vorzakir@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-11 17:23 +0000
            Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-11 22:13 +0300
              Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Randy Westlund <Vorzakir@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-11 19:22 +0000
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-11 22:39 +0300
                Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Randy Westlund <Vorzakir@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-11 19:54 +0000
            Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-11 22:26 +0100
            Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-12 00:47 +0000
        Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-11 11:57 +1000
          Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 17:12 +0000
        Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-06-11 19:21 +0100

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