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| From | Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.misc |
| Subject | Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants |
| Date | 2014-06-06 11:57 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <bvclguF9khU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | <lmhki3$8fh$1@dont-email.me> <bv3djqF1bo8U1@mid.individual.net> <slrnlormeb.34a.catwheezel@ID-107770.user.individual.net> <bvb59gFkt4jU1@mid.individual.net> <slrnlp1ivc.k7h.catwheezel@ID-107770.user.individual.net> |
On 6/06/2014 5:58 AM, Whiskers wrote: > On 2014-06-05, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote: >> On 4/06/2014 12:20 AM, Whiskers wrote: >>> On 2014-06-02, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote: >>>> On 2/06/2014 8:44 PM, Rich wrote: >>>>> http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/the-smarter-grid/new-flow-battery-aims-to-replace-gas-plants >>>>> >>>>> "Startup EnerVault will unveil tomorrow what it says is the largest >>>>> iron-chromium flow battery ever made. Installed in Turlock, Calif., >>>>> the four-hour, 250-kilowatt battery will be charged by a solar >>>>> array and power an irrigation system. The project was funded by >>>>> about US $5 million from Department of Energy through the stimulus >>>>> program and the California Energy Commission." ... >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> "A multi-hour battery could replace a fossil fuel plant that only >>>> operates during peak-demand hours." >>>> >>>> Yes, it could replace the fossil fuel (gas) plant that only operates >>>> during peak-demand hours by a different fossil fuel (coal) plant >>>> that operates at lower power 24/7. >>>> >>>> Any sufficiently cheap load equalising technology will tend to have >>>> that as a result because energy from coal costs less than energy >>>> from gas. >>>> >>>> Sylvia. >>> >>> This is the sort of technology required for wind tide and solar >>> generating plant to be genuinely 'green'. It won't replace 'base >>> load' power stations - nuclear or perhaps 'fusion' plant can handle >>> that - but the fluctuating part of real usage requires something that >>> can be switched on and off rapidly. Re-chargeable batteries can do >>> that, but only after we've invented some that can handle megawatts. >>> >> >> Fine for providing power overnight using energy extracted from the sun >> during the day. >> >> Provided it wasn't cloudy. >> >> So backup generators are still required. >> >> That aside, the effect will still be as I described. It's a matter of >> economics. >> >> Sylvia. > > Economics, with more or less interference from governments, will of > course determine the pace at which changes happen. > > Any power being generated that is surplus to immediate requirements can > be used to re-charge storage; the stored power can then be delivered > when demand increases. That 'surplus to immediate requirements' power > can come from whatever is operating at the time - solar, wind, tide, > hydro, fusion, fission, biomass, gas, oil, coal, .... > > At present, we have only 'Pumped-storage hydroelectricity' as an > effective means of storing surplus power during off-peak periods and > then delivering it in Megawatt quantities at short notice. This is > expensive and involves a great deal of heavy civil engineering and > environmental impact. That's why intermittent generating plant such as > wind sun and tide have to be 'backed up' by at least as much > (inefficient quick-start) gas and diesel plant for when the wind isn't > blowing or the sun isn't shining. That is why most 'green' electricity > generating capacity is mostly useless, for the time being; when we want > it it isn't working, and when it's working no-one wants it. > > Massive re-chargeable batteries such as these have the potential to > replace the gas and diesel plant currently needed to back up the > windmills - once the batteries are big enough and reliable enough. This > installation is a 'proof of concept' test-bed; if successful it will > show that 'green' power might one day be really useful on a large scale. > The problem is that, unlike gas and diesel plant which can run indefinitely, batteries can only provide power until they are discharged. Since they can only be charged again when supply from other sources again exceeds the immediate demand, this means that the gas and diesel plant are still required to handle that situation. So a system that includes wind and solar power and batteries will still need the same non-intermittent power supplies as would be required if the wind, solar and batteries didn't exist. All the batteries do is change the economics of that non-intermittent supply. Sylvia.
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Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-02 10:44 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-02 23:47 +1000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-06-03 15:20 +0100
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-05 22:14 +1000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-06-05 20:58 +0100
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-06 11:57 +1000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-06-06 21:14 +0100
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-07 13:24 +1000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-06-06 22:49 -0600
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-07 08:33 +0200
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-07 16:44 +1000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> - 2014-06-07 22:02 +0100
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-09 19:42 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-09 22:37 +0100
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-09 15:19 -0700
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-09 23:26 +0100
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-09 15:36 -0700
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-09 23:40 +0100
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-09 16:12 -0700
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-10 07:44 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-10 18:47 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-10 23:43 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 17:12 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-11 21:58 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-18 12:44 -0700
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 17:20 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-11 22:05 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 20:52 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-12 00:14 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 15:12 -0700
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-12 09:18 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-12 09:31 +0100
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-12 12:34 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-12 12:37 +0200
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-12 10:39 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-12 13:56 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-12 12:10 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-12 15:32 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-13 12:37 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-13 14:13 +0100
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-12 10:30 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-06-12 10:59 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-12 12:12 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-10 20:42 +1000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-10 15:55 +0100
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-10 18:47 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-10 23:50 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 17:13 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Randy Westlund <Vorzakir@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-11 17:23 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-11 22:13 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Randy Westlund <Vorzakir@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-11 19:22 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-11 22:39 +0300
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Randy Westlund <Vorzakir@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-11 19:54 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-11 22:26 +0100
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-06-12 00:47 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-06-11 11:57 +1000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-11 17:12 +0000
Re: Iron-Chromium Flow Battery Aims to Replace Gas Plants Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-06-11 19:21 +0100
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