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Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer

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  Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2013-10-06 12:37 -0700
    Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-10-07 12:55 +0000
      Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-10-07 14:02 +0100
    Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer Dr J R Stockton <reply1300@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2013-10-07 19:56 +0100
      Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2013-10-07 23:37 -0700
        Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer Christoph Michael Becker <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2013-10-16 22:44 +0200
          Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2013-10-16 14:34 -0700
            Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-10-17 00:32 +0200
              Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2013-10-16 18:13 -0700
                [ES Matrix] Suggestions (was: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-10-17 04:20 +0200
                  Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions (was: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer) "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2013-10-16 22:04 -0700
                    Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions (was: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-10-17 10:08 +0200
                      Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions (was: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer) "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2013-10-17 07:38 -0700
                        Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-10-19 03:50 +0200
                          Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2013-10-21 20:54 -0700
                            Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-10-23 21:27 +0200
                  Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions (was: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer) Dr J R Stockton <reply1300@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2013-10-18 20:43 +0100
                    Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions Mike Duffy <md_002@videotron.ca> - 2013-10-18 21:39 -0400
    Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2013-10-16 20:45 +0200
    Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 09:13 +1100
    Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer Adam Silver <adambsilver@gmail.com> - 2013-10-17 00:57 -0700
      Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer "Mel Smith" <med_cutout_syntel@aol.com> - 2013-10-17 08:30 -0600
        Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2013-10-17 20:53 +0300
          Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-10-17 18:57 +0100
          Re: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer Ed Jay <edMbj@aes-intl.com> - 2013-10-17 12:20 -0700

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#21568 — Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer

How about crowdfunding for the FAQ maintainer of $500 at the completion of 6 months work?

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#21570

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 12:37:47 -0700, dhtml wrote:

> How about crowdfunding for the FAQ maintainer of $500 at the completion
> of 6 months work?

How about not crowdfunding for the FAQ maintainer at all!

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com

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#21571

In article <l2ub01$bp8$1@dont-email.me>,
 Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 12:37:47 -0700, dhtml wrote:
> 
> > How about crowdfunding for the FAQ maintainer of $500 at the completion
> > of 6 months work?
> 
> How about not crowdfunding for the FAQ maintainer at all!

+1

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#21576

In comp.lang.javascript message <b7480597-ff92-41ba-80e8-90f8f227d8e3@go
oglegroups.com>, Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:37:47, dhtml
<dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> posted:

>How about crowdfunding for the FAQ maintainer of $500 at the completion
>of 6 months work?

Since so many of us are not American, Canadian, etc., it would make more
sense to ask for Euros.  OTOH, I do have some spare dollars; but they
may well be of Soviet manufacture.

I cannot imagine why anyone might want to fund something without an
agreed scheme for the assessment of quality - and yours before was not
particularly good.

-- 
 (c) John Stockton, nr London, UK.   E-mail, see Home Page.    Turnpike v6.05.
 Website  <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
 PAS EXE etc. : <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see in 00index.htm
 Dates - miscdate.htm estrdate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.

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#21578

On Monday, October 7, 2013 11:56:20 AM UTC-7, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
> In comp.lang.javascript message <b7480597-ff92-41ba-80e8-90f8f227d8e3@go
> 
> oglegroups.com>, Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:37:47, dhtml
> 
> <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> posted:
> 
> 
> 
> >How about crowdfunding for the FAQ maintainer of $500 at the completion
> 
> >of 6 months work?
> 
> 
> 
[...]
> 
> I cannot imagine why anyone might want to fund something without an
> 
> agreed scheme for the assessment of quality - and yours before was not
> 
> particularly good.

Maintaining the FAQ is work and it requires skill. Nobody is doing the work on the FAQ.

We have votes where a handful of people participate. This is not consensus. And trying to silence dissenters isn't fairer than sitting around, fap-fap-fap,  shittalking, et al. The FAQ needs work.

I will check back in a week. If there is a strong consensus for FAQ Maintainer then the torch will pass. 

Otherwise, I will make the discussed changes myself. 
-- 
Garrett
Bring Back DHTML Kitchen:
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/dhtmlkitchen-ii
Hire me through Fiverr: http://fiverr.com/users/dhtmlkitchen/

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#21628

dhtml wrote:

> On Monday, October 7, 2013 11:56:20 AM UTC-7, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
>> In comp.lang.javascript message <b7480597-ff92-41ba-80e8-90f8f227d8e3@go
>>
>> oglegroups.com>, Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:37:47, dhtml
>>
>> <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> posted:
>>
>>
>>
>>> How about crowdfunding for the FAQ maintainer of $500 at the completion
>>
>>> of 6 months work?
>>
>>
>>
> [...]
>>
>> I cannot imagine why anyone might want to fund something without an
>>
>> agreed scheme for the assessment of quality - and yours before was not
>>
>> particularly good.
> 
> Maintaining the FAQ is work and it requires skill. Nobody is doing the work on the FAQ.

Well, Thomas Lahn already did some work on the FAQ.[1]  Unfortunately,
as there has not been any consensus yet, he has to do this on an
"unofficial" site, what is quite likely to keep his incentive low.  Even
worse, he does not get much feedback and suggestions to improve the FAQ.

> We have votes where a handful of people participate. This is not consensus. And trying to silence dissenters isn't fairer than sitting around, fap-fap-fap,  shittalking, et al. The FAQ needs work.

I fully agree that the FAQ *needs* work.
> 
> I will check back in a week. If there is a strong consensus for FAQ Maintainer then the torch will pass.

The week is over, and there is no strong consensus for a FAQ maintainer.
 It occurs to me that this won't change in the "near" future (i.e. in
the next few years, at least).  It seems some regulars prefer to wait
for a messiah to come and take over the job, instead of choosing between
available candidates...

[1]
<http://pointedears.de/wsvn/FAQs/trunk/cljs/?op=log&isdir=1&showchanges=1>

-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#21629

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 3:44:28 PM UTC-5, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
> 
> The week is over, and there is no strong consensus for a FAQ maintainer.
>  It occurs to me that this won't change in the "near" future (i.e. in
> the next few years, at least).  It seems some regulars prefer to wait
> for a messiah to come and take over the job, instead of choosing between
> available candidates...

I'd prefer at most a wiki form of a FAQ with a white-list of contributors. Though if I had to choose only one person to do the work of maintaining the FAQ, Thomas Lahn would have to be it. The last thing I want to see is a FAQ full of cheap tricks and youtube links, and PE seems to be the most dedicated and reliable member of the volunteers to do this task (though admittedly the amount of time he has been part of the group has a small impact on this decision as well). Given that though, I do have some misgivings to how well feedback and suggestions would be received and integrated if this FAQ follows the feedback trend that the ES-Matrix has... I am also concerned about the potential influence of competing personalities. If Thomas is given feedback or a suggestion from say, Stockton or David Mark in the usual sense that they do, will he be able and willing to filter through the noise for the signal?

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#21631

Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:

> Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>> The week is over, and there is no strong consensus for a FAQ maintainer.
>>  It occurs to me that this won't change in the "near" future (i.e. in
>> the next few years, at least).  It seems some regulars prefer to wait
>> for a messiah to come and take over the job, instead of choosing between
>> available candidates...
> 
> I'd prefer at most a wiki form of a FAQ with a white-list of contributors.
> Though if I had to choose only one person to do the work of maintaining
> the FAQ, Thomas Lahn would have to be it. The last thing I want to see is
> a FAQ full of cheap tricks and youtube links, and PE seems to be the most
> dedicated and reliable member of the volunteers to do this task (though
> admittedly the amount of time he has been part of the group has a small
> impact on this decision as well). Given that though, I do have some
> misgivings to how well feedback and suggestions would be received and
> integrated if this FAQ follows the feedback trend that the ES-Matrix
> has...

What about the ES Matrix?  Since I have updated it with the results of my 
thesis this June, so that it now includes a submit button, I have been 
thankfully receiving quite a lot of feedback (*effective* submissions – 
duplicates are automatically prevented: 81 different environments, 66'392 
test results for 278 features), and I am planning to integrate that in due 
course.  You are welcome to push that button in all browsers you can get 
your hands on¹, and, like other people, let me know if something is wrong.

[Thanks again to Bergi who pointed out via e-mail recently that Opera 
ECMAScript 12.16 apparently has an implementation bug which causes eval("e") 
in the ES Matrix version of jsx.tryThis() to evaluate to a reference to the 
“a” element object with “name”/“id” "e" instead of the “catch” parameter 
“e”, giving false negatives for exception tests.  This will be analyzed and 
fixed in due course, and duly noted in the Contributors section.]

_________
¹  newer than NN 4.x would be preferable as I have not solved all backwards
   compatibility issues yet

> I am also concerned about the potential influence of competing
> personalities. If Thomas is given feedback or a suggestion from say,
> Stockton or David Mark in the usual sense that they do, will he be able
> and willing to filter through the noise for the signal?

I think I have already said yes to that:

<news:7999713.rOig3AcjxW@PointedEars.de>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#21633

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:32:57 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:

> > [...]Given that though, I do have some
> > misgivings to how well feedback and suggestions would be received and
> > integrated if this FAQ follows the feedback trend that the ES-Matrix
> > has [...]
> 
> What about the ES Matrix? [...]

More than once over the years I've submitted additions that never showed up, for example the "\v" bug of older JScript implementations, the event namespacing mechanism of JScript: "::" <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms974564.aspx>, Sharp variables in JavaScript (pre-ES3 through JavaScript 1.8.5), and others I've forgotten.

> > I am also concerned about the potential influence of competing
> > personalities. If Thomas is given feedback or a suggestion from say,
> > Stockton or David Mark in the usual sense that they do, will he be able
> > and willing to filter through the noise for the signal?
> 
> I think I have already said yes to that:
> 
> <news:7999713.rOig3AcjxW@PointedEars.de>

Acknowledged

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#21634 — [ES Matrix] Suggestions (was: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer)

Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
>> > [...]Given that though, I do have some
>> > misgivings to how well feedback and suggestions would be received and
>> > integrated if this FAQ follows the feedback trend that the ES-Matrix
>> > has [...]
>> 
>> What about the ES Matrix? [...]
> 
> More than once over the years I've submitted additions that never showed
> up, for example the "\v" bug of older JScript implementations, the event
> namespacing mechanism of JScript: "::"
> <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms974564.aspx>, Sharp variables
> in JavaScript (pre-ES3 through JavaScript 1.8.5), and others I've
> forgotten.

AISB, I would be very glad if I had gotten as many suggestions for the FAQ 
for comp.lang.javascript as I got for the ES Matrix.  As you can see in the 
changelog, other people have submitted suggestions which were implemented.  
Maybe something was/is wrong with your suggestions.

This may surprise you, but maintaining the ES Matrix is not what I do for a 
living.  Neither is maintaining the FAQ for comp.lang.javascript.  Those are 
pet projects I do in my limited free time.  I do have a regular full-time 
job in the software industry.

If you want a person to do for a living what I do in my free time, you will 
probably have to resort to crowdfunding.  But consider this: Those whose 
daily job it were to maintain a document would be less likely to judge the 
quality of that document and contributions to it correctly because they must 
be lacking field experience in turn.

In my thesis (which I submitted and defended in 2012 while working part-
time) I had to focus on refining the test cases for the features that 
already existed, and on important new features specified in ECMAScript 
Edition 5.1 (which you could read in its translation into English, once it 
is finished, at the latest).  Rest assured that any suggestions you have 
submitted via e-mail are still there, and will be considered if and as soon 
as possible (even more so as adding new features and testcases is comparably 
easy now because of the new database and backend UI).

Any suggestions you have submitted in the newsgroup after 2012-04 that are 
not contained in follow-ups to my postings are unlikely to have been noticed 
by me in the first place because since then I have been boycotting Google 
Groups as they are acting irresponsibly, slowly destroying (the remains of) 
Usenet.  Rather as proof of that it is possible that not even a thorough 
Google Groups search will turn up your earlier suggestions.  (IIRC, I have 
told you that before.)

Of the mentioned submissions, I only recall vaguely discussions about "\v".  
In general, I think I should focus on implementations, versions and features 
that are widely used (that is not to say that other features could not be 
considered with reduced priority; I do want the Matrix as complete as 
possible).  As to JScript, it is not possible to provide test results for 
those features that are buggy in versions of implementations to which the 
current code is not backwards compatible, and due to the used methodology 
the possibility of arbitrary footnotes in the features table has been 
removed (and might need to be restored in some way).

If you have any specific references to previous suggestions handy, or any 
new suggestions, I would be grateful if you posted them here or send them 
via e-mail.
 
-- 
PointedEars, who should have been asleep hours ago

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#21635 — Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions (was: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer)

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:20:14 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> 
> AISB, I would be very glad if I had gotten as many suggestions for the FAQ 
> for comp.lang.javascript as I got for the ES Matrix.  As you can see in the 
> changelog, other people have submitted suggestions which were implemented.  
> Maybe something was/is wrong with your suggestions.
> 
> This may surprise you, but maintaining the ES Matrix is not what I do for a 
> living.  Neither is maintaining the FAQ for comp.lang.javascript.  Those are 
> pet projects I do in my limited free time.  I do have a regular full-time 
> job in the software industry.
> 
> If you want a person to do for a living what I do in my free time, you will 
> probably have to resort to crowdfunding.  But consider this: Those whose 
> daily job it were to maintain a document would be less likely to judge the 
> quality of that document and contributions to it correctly because they must 
> be lacking field experience in turn.
> 
> In my thesis (which I submitted and defended in 2012 while working part-
> time) I had to focus on refining the test cases for the features that 
> already existed, and on important new features specified in ECMAScript 
> Edition 5.1 (which you could read in its translation into English, once it 
> is finished, at the latest).  Rest assured that any suggestions you have 
> submitted via e-mail are still there, and will be considered if and as soon 
> as possible (even more so as adding new features and testcases is comparably 
> easy now because of the new database and backend UI).

I wasn't seeking an excuse, explanation, nor seeking that past submissions I've made be added to the matrix, I was raising this issue as a possible caveat of my support for your role as maintainer. Primarily I was concerned that for the FAQ, like my experience with the Matrix prior to it's current incarnation, submissions would disappear into the ether.

> Any suggestions you have submitted in the newsgroup after 2012-04 that are 
> not contained in follow-ups to my postings are unlikely to have been noticed 
> by me in the first place because since then I have been boycotting Google 
> Groups as they are acting irresponsibly, slowly destroying (the remains of) 
> Usenet.  Rather as proof of that it is possible that not even a thorough 
> Google Groups search will turn up your earlier suggestions.  (IIRC, I have 
> told you that before.)

This is indeed possible.

> If you have any specific references to previous suggestions handy, or any 
> new suggestions, I would be grateful if you posted them here or send them 
> via e-mail.

As time permits of course. 

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#21637 — Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions (was: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer)

Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> AISB, I would be very glad if I had gotten as many suggestions for the
>> FAQ for comp.lang.javascript as I got for the ES Matrix.  As you can see
>> in the changelog, other people have submitted suggestions which were
>> implemented. Maybe something was/is wrong with your suggestions.
>> 
>> This may surprise you, but maintaining the ES Matrix is not what I do for
>> a living.  Neither is maintaining the FAQ for comp.lang.javascript. 
>> Those are pet projects I do in my limited free time.  I do have a regular
>> full-time job in the software industry.
>> 
>> If you want a person to do for a living what I do in my free time, you
>> will probably have to resort to crowdfunding.  But consider this: Those
>> whose daily job it were to maintain a document would be less likely to
>> judge the quality of that document and contributions to it correctly
>> because they must be lacking field experience in turn.
>> 
>> In my thesis (which I submitted and defended in 2012 while working part-
>> time) I had to focus on refining the test cases for the features that
>> already existed, and on important new features specified in ECMAScript
>> Edition 5.1 (which you could read in its translation into English, once
>> it is finished, at the latest).  Rest assured that any suggestions you
>> have submitted via e-mail are still there, and will be considered if and
>> as soon as possible (even more so as adding new features and testcases is
>> comparably easy now because of the new database and backend UI).
> 
> I wasn't seeking an excuse, explanation, nor seeking that past submissions
> I've made be added to the matrix, I was raising this issue as a possible
> caveat of my support for your role as maintainer. Primarily I was
> concerned that for the FAQ, like my experience with the Matrix prior to
> it's current incarnation, submissions would disappear into the ether.

Submissions have _not_ “disappeared into the ether”.  It is unfair of you to 
repeatedly suggest that they have, despite evidence to the contrary.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#21640 — Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions (was: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer)

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 3:08:46 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> 
> Submissions have _not_ “disappeared into the ether”.  It is unfair of you to 
> repeatedly suggest that they have, despite evidence to the contrary.

Thomas has decided to take this part of our discussion out of CLJS and into direct email (I agree that it is becoming off-topic for this thread). Regardless of how that argument turns out, I still objectively stand in the position that he is the best person for the job. I am starting to suspect that my situation with him and the process with the ES-Matrix is a one-off error that won't be translated into his management of the FAQ.

I still believe my description of submissions disappearing into the ether is valid from my point of view though since neither a positive or negative response is given after a significant period of time. If past submissions I've forgotten about by now are sitting in an inbox somewhere and you are aware of them, fine; I am content.

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#21651 — Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions

Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Submissions have _not_ “disappeared into the ether”.  It is unfair of you
>> to repeatedly suggest that they have, despite evidence to the contrary.
> 
> Thomas has decided to take this part of our discussion out of CLJS and
> into direct email (I agree that it is becoming off-topic for this thread).

It is a common and unfortunately growing misconception, particularly held by 
people who use Usenet only via the Web, and who are more accustomed to Web 
forums than newsgroups, that an initial thread Subject defines the whole 
content of the thread.  This leads to extreme positions suggesting that the 
OP somehow “owns” a thread, therefore can dictate what is to be discussed in 
it, and that people who prefer to discuss something else than the OP's 
problem would have “hijacked” “their” thread.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.  The newsgroup's *topic* defines 
the *subjects* that are *on topic* in the newsgroup.  Thread drift is 
considered normal and healthy, and there is the “(was: …)” convention to 
support it.

So that is _not_ the reason why I sent you an e-mail, too.  The reason is 
very simple: Misunderstandings can usually be resolved easier between two 
people than in public.  Which is why the newsgroup is the *public* part of 
Usenet, and e-mail is the *private* part.  (IOW, do not mung address header 
fields; you are hurting helpful people *and* yourself, _not_ the spammers.)

> Regardless of how that argument turns out, I still objectively stand in
> the position that he is the best person for the job.

Thank you.

> I am starting to suspect that my situation with him and the process with
> the ES-Matrix is a one-off error that won't be translated into his
> management of the FAQ.

For there to be a “one-off error” something had to went be going wrong.  
Have you considered the Occam's-razor possibility that nothing had gone 
wrong and your suggestion simply did not get noticed, especially as you are 
and probably have been posting via the borken and spammed Google Groups?

Besides, even if your submission got noticed (I honestly cannot tell), it is 
also _not_ an error if a submission was not implemented (yet).  Have you 
considered also that other submissions might be more important than yours?  
When one has a lot of different things to do, and particularly if one does 
them alone, one has to prioritize.  Of the possible submissions that you 
have mentioned here, I have no problem realizing that submissions of greater 
importance might have taken precedence over them:

- AFAIK, "\v" is almost never used.  And “older JScript implementations”
  (you mean _versions_)?  Give me a break, please.  In order to be useful,
  the ES Matrix must focus on *used* ECMAScript implementations, not on
  detailing ancient history.  AISB, it might not even be possible to write
  backwards-compatible testing code.  The line has to be drawn somewhere,
  and I am drawing it where the costs (in free time) exceed the possible
  benefits (in completeness).

- The “event namespacing mechanism in JScript” is described in an article
  published in 2001, and it is not standards-compliant.  AISB, the priority
  for the _ECMAScript_ Support Matrix from highest to lowest is the
  standard, followed by deviations from the standard, followed by
  proprietary features.  As a result, this feature would get the lowest
  priority now and it might have gotten it earlier (I have not checked
  my e-mails yet).  Besides, you cannot test it automatically which at least
  currently excludes it from the ES Matrix.  And it is actually a *DOM*
  feature in disguise, making it suitable for the yet unpublished _DOM_
  Support Matrix, not the *ES* Matrix (if anyone even cares about it
  anymore).

- Same for “sharp variables” in JavaScript up to 1.8.5.  That was Firefox 4
  and earlier; versions that have met their end-of-life more than two years
  ago and literally SHOULD NOT be in use anywhere now.

That does not mean that features like those will not eventually get 
documented in the ES Matrix (one can still download and run the old 
versions).  But as I see it you are setting the wrong priorities, and you 
want me to set the same wrong priorities.  I will not do that.  As much as I 
welcome contributions, it is (literally) *my* work and there is *my* name on 
it, not yours.

This is as far as I want to discuss the ES Matrix in this thread.  Comparing 
the *private* and *from-scratch* pet project of the ES Matrix (regardless 
how useful it may have become to others) with a FAQ that is intended to be 
the *replacement* of an *existing* *public* FAQ is just comparing apples and 
oranges.  And as I see it, there appears to be at least the misconception on 
your part that I am reading every posting that contains "ES Matrix".


And here is what is relevant about all that to FAQ maintenance:

The same misconception would be that as a FAQ editor I would read every 
posting in this newsgroup that contains "FAQ".  I just cannot do that, none 
of the previous FAQ editors promised to do anything of the sort, and AFAIK 
no publishing editor works that way either.  So it is not going to happen 
regardless who does the job – unless they have nothing else to do, and AISB 
then they are probably not the best person for the job.  (Notice that I am 
using the term “editor” instead of “maintainer” with purpose.  It is not 
enough to just keep the FAQ running; it has to be *edited*, *improved*.)

Also, crying foul (after years) because submissions have not made it (yet) 
into such a document (and in *that* way the Matrix and the FAQ are alike) 
does not help.  Making better submissions, and sending friendly reminders if 
necessary, does.  After all, if one considers one’s submission *that* 
important, sending a reminder is not too much to ask for.  The best 
submissions are those that just can be copy-pasted because they allow to get 
more work done in the same time.  The best reminders are those that 
explicitly specify when and where something was overlooked, and why that 
something is important, for the same reason.

Again I have written here more than I wanted, but on the other hand I think 
clarification is important and necessary.  Because of some notorious nay-
sayers, put politely, I have no illusions that people subscribed to this 
group will come to the consensus sought by some as to a suitable FAQ 
maintainer before hell freezes over (and as I pointed out, who could 
reasonably define what is consensus in an open set like this?).  It is more 
important to me to get things done *and* to get them done in good quality.  
I think people will realize eventually who can get things done and who can 
only put out hot air.  But I want everyone to know (or remind them of) what 
they can expect from FAQ maintainance and what they just cannot expect 
(especially not for unpaid, voluntary work).  If you still think it is 
necessary for me to respond to equally your long e-mail, please say so.  
Otherwise I will just log it away as a mutual misunderstanding.

Finally, *that* submissions get easily lost in newsgroup discussions is 
*precisely* the reason why I have suggested and requested for the FAQ for 
comp.lang.javascript that submissions be sent via e-mail (I am considering 
something easy to remember and to filter into folders, like 
faq@PointedEars.de – what do you think?).  If you do not want to do just 
that, at least Cc: me (as an exception to the rule in my sig).  It is simply 
too much to ask for to read each and every posting; particularly, to read 
(and not filter out) all postings injected via Google Groups, considering 
the low S/N ratio and violation of Internet standards there (that few Google 
Groups posters realize).
 
> I still believe my description of submissions disappearing into the ether
> is valid from my point of view though since neither a positive or negative
> response is given after a significant period of time. If past submissions
> I've forgotten about by now are sitting in an inbox somewhere and you are
> aware of them, fine; I am content.

OK.  Just a friendly reminder on how it works: If *you* claim to have made 
submissions that – for whatever reason – were not considered, *you* have to 
substantiate that claim.  And *extraordinary* claims require *extraordinary* 
evidence.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#21685 — Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions

On Friday, October 18, 2013 8:50:21 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:

> > Thomas has decided to take this part of our discussion out of CLJS and
> > into direct email (I agree that it is becoming off-topic for this thread).

> It is a common and unfortunately growing misconception, particularly held by 
> people who use Usenet only via the Web, and who are more accustomed to Web 
> forums than newsgroups, that an initial thread Subject defines the whole 
> content of the thread.  This leads to extreme positions suggesting that the 
> OP somehow “owns” a thread, therefore can dictate what is to be discussed in 
> it, and that people who prefer to discuss something else than the OP's 
> problem would have “hijacked” “their” thread.
>
> Nothing could be farther from the truth.  The newsgroup's *topic* defines 
> the *subjects* that are *on topic* in the newsgroup.  Thread drift is 
> considered normal and healthy, and there is the “(was: …)” convention to 
> support it.

An apt description. +1

> So that is _not_ the reason why I sent you an e-mail, too.  The reason is 
> very simple: Misunderstandings can usually be resolved easier between two 
> people than in public.  Which is why the newsgroup is the *public* part of 
> Usenet, and e-mail is the *private* part.  (IOW, do not mung address header 
> fields; you are hurting helpful people *and* yourself, _not_ the spammers.)

I'm not aware that I did. Another casualty of GG if this occured.

> > Regardless of how that argument turns out, I still objectively stand in
> > the position that he is the best person for the job.
> 
> Thank you.

I didn't realize that objectivity was so far from the norm that it deserved
gratitude. Your welcome of course.

> > I am starting to suspect that my situation with him and the process with
> > the ES-Matrix is a one-off error that won't be translated into his
> > management of the FAQ.
> 
> For there to be a “one-off error” something had to went be going wrong.  
> Have you considered the Occam's-razor possibility that nothing had gone 
> wrong and your suggestion simply did not get noticed, especially as you are 
> and probably have been posting via the borken and spammed Google Groups?

If I had posted the suggestions once and only through GG, this would have been
the primary consideration.
 
> Besides, even if your submission got noticed (I honestly cannot tell), it is 
> also _not_ an error if a submission was not implemented (yet).  Have you 
> considered also that other submissions might be more important than yours?  
> When one has a lot of different things to do, and particularly if one does 
> them alone, one has to prioritize.  Of the possible submissions that you 
> have mentioned here, I have no problem realizing that submissions of greater 
> importance might have taken precedence over them:
> 
> - AFAIK, "\v" is almost never used.  And “older JScript implementations”
>   (you mean _versions_)?  Give me a break, please.  In order to be useful,
>   the ES Matrix must focus on *used* ECMAScript implementations, not on
>   detailing ancient history.  AISB, it might not even be possible to write
>   backwards-compatible testing code.  The line has to be drawn somewhere,
>   and I am drawing it where the costs (in free time) exceed the possible
>   benefits (in completeness).

No, I meant implementations. If I had said _versions_ you would have probably 
made the contrary statement that I should have said _implementations_ as that
seems to be your habit IME. Besides, I would argue that the matrix wouldn't have
much value if it primarily focused on the obvious aspects of support; No one
would need bother to look it up... 

IRT *used*: note that you have KJS listed, but imply an IE8 JScript
discrepancy doesn't belong. For testing: '\v' == 'v'

Also, if detailing ancient history isn't your goal, then why bother with:
<http://pointedears.de/scripts/test/es-matrix/#timeline>?

> - The “event namespacing mechanism in JScript” is described in an article
>   published in 2001, and it is not standards-compliant.  AISB, the priority
>   for the _ECMAScript_ Support Matrix from highest to lowest is the
>   standard, followed by deviations from the standard, followed by
>   proprietary features.  As a result, this feature would get the lowest
>   priority now and it might have gotten it earlier (I have not checked
>   my e-mails yet).  Besides, you cannot test it automatically which at least
>   currently excludes it from the ES Matrix.

okay


>   And it is actually a *DOM*
>   feature in disguise, making it suitable for the yet unpublished _DOM_
>   Support Matrix, not the *ES* Matrix (if anyone even cares about it
>   anymore).

I'm not so sure about that. It works in wsf as well:

<job>
<object progid="ordersystem.clsorder" id="myorder" events="true"/>
<script language="jscript">
function myorder::onNew(){
	WScript.Echo("new order received from myorder")
}
myorder.neworder(1)
</script>
</job>

> - Same for “sharp variables” in JavaScript up to 1.8.5.  That was Firefox 4
>   and earlier; versions that have met their end-of-life more than two years
>   ago and literally SHOULD NOT be in use anywhere now.

yes?

> That does not mean that features like those will not eventually get 
> documented in the ES Matrix (one can still download and run the old 
> versions).  But as I see it you are setting the wrong priorities, and you 
> want me to set the same wrong priorities.  I will not do that.  As much as I 
> welcome contributions, it is (literally) *my* work and there is *my* name on 
> it, not yours.

Since I have already said earlier I don't even care if these examples are 
included anymore or not, I don't see how you are deriving an intention from
me to alter some hitherto less than clearly defined priorities. I assumed,
since you're clearly proud of the work and effort you've placed into this
project, that you would have been glad to have been informed of some missing
edge cases. If raising an old issue again once a year or so is too much to
bear, than so be it.

From the ES-Matrix page:

"This overview – the ECMAScript Support Matrix – began as a comparison of
different “JavaScript” features and, as time passed and understanding grew,
evolved into a comparison between the major ECMAScript implementations,
detailing the differences, the quirks and the bugs. It has been serving
its author (and its dedicated readers) for years in writing client-side
scripts that work cross-browser, and has been helping to see the distinction
between core language features, and APIs with language binding, like the 
DOM. (The features of the latter API will be compared in another Matrix.)"

I must have misunderstood the "detailing the differences,
the quirks and the bugs." part

> This is as far as I want to discuss the ES Matrix in this thread.  Comparing 
> the *private* and *from-scratch* pet project of the ES Matrix (regardless 
> how useful it may have become to others) with a FAQ that is intended to be 
> the *replacement* of an *existing* *public* FAQ is just comparing apples and 
> oranges.

So it seems. It is apparent to me now that the former is far more
stringent in more ways than one.

>  And as I see it, there appears to be at least the misconception on 
> your part that I am reading every posting that contains "ES Matrix".

...and the implied appearance of what that implies I did.
(quite a post-modernist turn of phrase I must admit)
 
> 
> And here is what is relevant about all that to FAQ maintenance:
> The same misconception would be that as a FAQ editor I would read every 
> posting in this newsgroup that contains "FAQ".  I just cannot do that, none 
> of the previous FAQ editors promised to do anything of the sort, and AFAIK 
> no publishing editor works that way either.  So it is not going to happen 
> regardless who does the job – unless they have nothing else to do, and AISB 
> then they are probably not the best person for the job.  (Notice that I am 
> using the term “editor” instead of “maintainer” with purpose.  It is not 
> enough to just keep the FAQ running; it has to be *edited*, *improved*.)

Wasn't there a searchable convention in the past of suggesting entries?
 
> Also, crying foul (after years) because submissions have not made it (yet) 
> into such a document (and in *that* way the Matrix and the FAQ are alike) 
> does not help.

So it seems.

>  Making better submissions, and sending friendly reminders if 
> necessary, does.  After all, if one considers one’s submission *that* 
> important, sending a reminder is not too much to ask for.

I think it's obvious by now I don't think it's important, either implicity
by how little I've bothered you about it or explicitly by my statements
this week. I'm more curious to if you really are asking?

> The best submissions are those that just can be copy-pasted because they
> allow to get more work done in the same time.  The best reminders are 
> those that explicitly specify when and where something was overlooked, 
> and why that something is important, for the same reason.
> 
> Again I have written here more than I wanted, but on the other hand I think 
> clarification is important and necessary.  Because of some notorious nay-
> sayers, put politely, I have no illusions that people subscribed to this 
> group will come to the consensus sought by some as to a suitable FAQ 
> maintainer before hell freezes over (and as I pointed out, who could 
> reasonably define what is consensus in an open set like this?).  It is more 
> important to me to get things done *and* to get them done in good quality.  
> I think people will realize eventually who can get things done and who can 
> only put out hot air.  But I want everyone to know (or remind them of) what 
> they can expect from FAQ maintainance and what they just cannot expect 
> (especially not for unpaid, voluntary work).  If you still think it is 
> necessary for me to respond to equally your long e-mail, please say so.  
> Otherwise I will just log it away as a mutual misunderstanding.

There is no need to reply to my excessively long and cryptic email. I don't
have the available free time at the moment to reply in a timely manner and I am
certain you don't either (as implied by my delayed reply). I would rather whatever misunderstanding we have be
resolved one way or another in a more piecemeal manner over a longer stretch
of time if that is possible. At any rate I will admit it was poor form to raise
my minor grievance in the manner I did (paraphrasing what I said and implied
earlier for the spectators following along):

"Are you going to treat people's FAQ suggestions the same way you've treated
my suggestions to the ES-Matrix thus far?"

Though you took that in the wrong way, I admit there was no right way to take
it as it was a rhetorical and cynical remark.

> Finally, *that* submissions get easily lost in newsgroup discussions is 
> *precisely* the reason why I have suggested and requested for the FAQ for 
> comp.lang.javascript that submissions be sent via e-mail (I am considering 
> something easy to remember and to filter into folders, like 
> faq@PointedEars.de – what do you think?).

I find that acceptable.

> If you do not want to do just that, at least Cc: me (as an exception to the
> rule in my sig).  It is simply too much to ask for to read each and every
> posting; particularly, to read (and not filter out) all postings injected via
> Google Groups, considering the low S/N ratio and violation of Internet
> standards there (that few Google  Groups posters realize).

Maybe we're all hiding from the NSA in the noise (and just don't know it).

> > I still believe my description of submissions disappearing into the ether
> > is valid from my point of view though since neither a positive or negative
> > response is given after a significant period of time. If past submissions
> > I've forgotten about by now are sitting in an inbox somewhere and you are
> > aware of them, fine; I am content.
> 
> OK.  Just a friendly reminder on how it works: If *you* claim to have made 
> submissions that – for whatever reason – were not considered, *you* have to 
> substantiate that claim.  And *extraordinary* claims require *extraordinary* 
> evidence.

I didn't realize email/tweet/GG submissions were extraordinary events; But at any rate, since neither of us care to dig up history and seem to rather prefer this time consuming ...discussion, I'll make at least a minor effort to curtail it.

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#21709 — Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions

Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> So that is _not_ the reason why I sent you an e-mail, too.  The reason is
>> very simple: Misunderstandings can usually be resolved easier between two
>> people than in public.  Which is why the newsgroup is the *public* part
>> of Usenet, and e-mail is the *private* part.  (IOW, do not mung address
>> header fields; you are hurting helpful people *and* yourself, _not_ the
>> spammers.)
> 
> I'm not aware that I did. Another casualty of GG if this occured.

You did not; it was a general side note because there are people who do that 
and are not aware of the consequences.

>> Besides, even if your submission got noticed (I honestly cannot tell), it
>> is also _not_ an error if a submission was not implemented (yet).  Have
>> you considered also that other submissions might be more important than
>> yours? When one has a lot of different things to do, and particularly if
>> one does them alone, one has to prioritize.  Of the possible submissions
>> that you have mentioned here, I have no problem realizing that
>> submissions of greater importance might have taken precedence over them:
>> 
>> - AFAIK, "\v" is almost never used.  And “older JScript implementations”
>>   (you mean _versions_)?  Give me a break, please.  In order to be
>>   useful, the ES Matrix must focus on *used* ECMAScript implementations,
>>   not on>>   detailing ancient history.  AISB, it might not even be
>>   possible to write backwards-compatible testing code.  The line has to
>>   be drawn somewhere, and I am drawing it where the costs (in free time)
>>   exceed the possible benefits (in completeness).
> 
> No, I meant implementations. If I had said _versions_ you would have
> probably made the contrary statement that I should have said
> _implementations_ as that seems to be your habit IME.

There are no JScript implementations; JScript *is* an implementation of 
ECMAScript.  There are _versions_ of JScript.

> Besides, I would argue that the matrix wouldn't have much value if it
> primarily focused on the obvious aspects of support; No one would need
> bother to look it up...

The primary value of the Matrix is to detail the features that versions of 
implementations or implementations in general have in common; that are, in 
Matrix lingo, “safe”; those are the features that can probably be used 
without any extra code to accommodate for differences simply because there 
are none (known).  The secondary value is to detail the differences.
 
> IRT *used*: note that you have KJS listed, but imply an IE8 JScript
> discrepancy doesn't belong. For testing: '\v' == 'v'

That is unfortunate, but *where is the use-case*?  Do you see my problem 
with attaching that much importance to this quirk (enough importance to 
warrant this subthread?)
 
> Also, if detailing ancient history isn't your goal,

It is not my *primary* goal, and never has been, and I am quite certain that 
my target audience looks at it the same way.  I thought I had made that 
clear by now.

> then why bother with:
> <http://pointedears.de/scripts/test/es-matrix/#timeline>?

In my thesis – which, again, you can *read online*, albeit not in English 
yet – I have had to come to the conclusion that maybe not all features can 
be tested *automatically* and *reliably*.  (Formerly, test results were 
added *manually*.)  So in rewriting the Matrix while writing my thesis, my 
goals regarding the Matrix have had to shift.  It is a lot easier to add new 
features and test cases now than it is to rewrite test code in a backwards-
compatible way.
 
>>   And it is actually a *DOM*
>>   feature in disguise, making it suitable for the yet unpublished _DOM_
>>   Support Matrix, not the *ES* Matrix (if anyone even cares about it
>>   anymore).
> 
> I'm not so sure about that. It works in wsf as well:
> 
> <job>
> <object progid="ordersystem.clsorder" id="myorder" events="true"/>
> <script language="jscript">
> function myorder::onNew(){
> WScript.Echo("new order received from myorder")
> }
> myorder.neworder(1)
> </script>
> </job>

If it *still* works, then it is more important and easier to test than if it 
only had worked once.  Regardless, it is a syntactical *extension* to 
ECMAScript and therefore of lower priority.
 
>> - Same for “sharp variables” in JavaScript up to 1.8.5.  That was Firefox
>>   4 and earlier; versions that have met their end-of-life more than two
>>   years ago and literally SHOULD NOT be in use anywhere now.
> 
> yes?

I do not understand that question.

> […]
> From the ES-Matrix page:
> 
> "This overview – the ECMAScript Support Matrix – began as a comparison of
> different “JavaScript” features and, as time passed and understanding
> grew, evolved into a comparison between the major ECMAScript
> implementations, detailing the differences, the quirks and the bugs. It
> has been serving its author (and its dedicated readers) for years in
> writing client-side scripts that work cross-browser, and has been helping
> to see the distinction between core language features, and APIs with
> language binding, like the DOM. (The features of the latter API will be
> compared in another Matrix.)"
> 
> I must have misunderstood the "detailing the differences,
> the quirks and the bugs." part

Apparently so, because “cross-browser” implies commonalities.  I might have 
to reword that paragraph for clarification.  The thesis wording is clearer.

>> This is as far as I want to discuss the ES Matrix in this thread. 
>> Comparing the *private* and *from-scratch* pet project of the ES Matrix
>> (regardless how useful it may have become to others) with a FAQ that is
>> intended to be the *replacement* of an *existing* *public* FAQ is just
>> comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> So it seems. It is apparent to me now that the former is far more
> stringent in more ways than one.

You mean the latter (the FAQ) because it has a wider audience, do you not?
 
>> And here is what is relevant about all that to FAQ maintenance:
>> The same misconception would be that as a FAQ editor I would read every
>> posting in this newsgroup that contains "FAQ".  I just cannot do that,
>> none of the previous FAQ editors promised to do anything of the sort, and
>> AFAIK no publishing editor works that way either.  So it is not going to
>> happen regardless who does the job – unless they have nothing else to do,
>> and AISB then they are probably not the best person for the job.  (Notice
>> that I am using the term “editor” instead of “maintainer” with purpose. 
>> It is not enough to just keep the FAQ running; it has to be *edited*,
>> *improved*.)
> 
> Wasn't there a searchable convention in the past of suggesting entries?

There was, but a) I do not have the code (or must have missed it), b) people 
could forget to write the tags, and c) it does not solve the GG/Web problem.

>>  Making better submissions, and sending friendly reminders if
>> necessary, does.  After all, if one considers one’s submission *that*
>> important, sending a reminder is not too much to ask for.
> 
> I think it's obvious by now I don't think it's important, either implicity
> by how little I've bothered you about it or explicitly by my statements
> this week. I'm more curious to if you really are asking?

I do not understand that question.

>> Finally, *that* submissions get easily lost in newsgroup discussions is
>> *precisely* the reason why I have suggested and requested for the FAQ for
>> comp.lang.javascript that submissions be sent via e-mail (I am
>> considering something easy to remember and to filter into folders, like
>> faq@PointedEars.de – what do you think?).
> 
> I find that acceptable.

Thanks.
 
>> If you do not want to do just that, at least Cc: me (as an exception to
>> the rule in my sig).  It is simply too much to ask for to read each and
>> every posting; particularly, to read (and not filter out) all postings
>> injected via Google Groups, considering the low S/N ratio and violation
>> of Internet standards there (that few Google Groups posters realize).
> 
> Maybe we're all hiding from the NSA in the noise (and just don't know it).

I do not understand that answer.
 
>> > I still believe my description of submissions disappearing into the
>> > ether is valid from my point of view though since neither a positive or
>> > negative response is given after a significant period of time. If past
>> > submissions I've forgotten about by now are sitting in an inbox
>> > somewhere and you are aware of them, fine; I am content.
>> 
>> OK.  Just a friendly reminder on how it works: If *you* claim to have
>> made submissions that – for whatever reason – were not considered, *you*
>> have to substantiate that claim.  And *extraordinary* claims require
>> *extraordinary* evidence.
> 
> I didn't realize email/tweet/GG submissions were extraordinary events;

They are if they are used (by you) to show a potential problem with my 
approach to maintenance, and that problem apparently warrants this 
subthread.

> But at any rate, since neither of us care to dig up history

AISB, I will search my e-mails.  There is little more that I can do.
Google Groups search is not realiable anymore.

> and seem to rather prefer this time consuming ...discussion, I'll make at
> least a minor effort to curtail it.

OK.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#21648 — Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions (was: Crowdfunding for FAQ Maintainer)

In comp.lang.javascript message <1950590.pCXgFyDL17@PointedEars.de>,
Thu, 17 Oct 2013 04:20:14, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
<PointedEars@web.de> posted:

>AISB, I would be very glad if I had gotten as many suggestions for the FAQ
>for comp.lang.javascript as I got for the ES Matrix.


If you were a nice person in Usenet, people would want to collaborate
with you.  But that is not the case.

Perhaps you could find some real-life activity, outside of work and the
Internet, which might help to develop any latent residual human-ness
that you may possess.  Painting, for example; at least two well-known
world leaders of the previous century indulged in different aspects of
that.  Or chopping wood.

-- 
 (c) John Stockton, nr London, UK.   E-mail, see Home Page.    Turnpike v6.05.
 Website  <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
 PAS EXE etc. : <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see in 00index.htm
 Dates - miscdate.htm estrdate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.

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#21650 — Re: [ES Matrix] Suggestions

On Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:43:13 +0100, Dr J R Stockton wrote:

> If you were a nice person in Usenet, people would want to collaborate
> with you.  But that is not the case.

I have stated here a few times that I will collaborate with Thomas.


> painting ... at least two well-known world leaders of the previous century
> indulged in different aspects of that.

Here is a link with three from the last century and two from the current
one. (*** Warning *** There are some naked self-portraits by George Bush
II)

http://www.boredpanda.com/world-leader-paintings/


> Or chopping wood.

How does a solitary activity develop "human-ness"? Besides, using an axe is
too slow when one has a serious quantity of wood to get rid of. Get one of
these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Tamp2fHhg

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#21627

W dniu 2013-10-06 21:37, dhtml pisze:
> How about crowdfunding for the FAQ maintainer of $500 at the completion of 6 months work?

I would agree with crowdfunding. However, I would like to create some 
kind of "agreement" what will be behind this work. Just to be super 
clear. Nothing more.

BTW Thomas Lahn, as far I know, just updated some part of FAQ on his 
website. Which means hid already did some job :-)

-- 
Cezary Tomczyk
http://www.ctomczyk.pl/

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#21630

"dhtml"  wrote in message 
news:b7480597-ff92-41ba-80e8-90f8f227d8e3@googlegroups.com...

> How about crowdfunding for the FAQ maintainer of $500 at the completion of 
> 6 months work?

Sorry to break the bad news to you guys but Usenet is dead and has been for 
a long time.

Why should anyone throw money at maintaining an FAQ for a newsgroup?

Why not set up a JavaScript Wiki page instead that can be referenced from 
extant forums such as Stack Overflow?

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] 

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