Re: Programming style question

Newsgroups	comp.lang.javascript
Date	2012-10-20 02:21 -0700
References	(2 earlier) <R_WdnYPwuJ3QZOLNnZ2dnUVZ_uGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <XnsA0F0B70DAAC48eejj99@194.109.133.133> <cnc088p6pfjkes0f3klmf68a64188n85o8@4ax.com> <XnsA0F18794F49Feejj99@194.109.133.133> <xsadnQmiZIUSORzNnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Message-ID	<a1fb26f2-1681-4e6a-8977-13715253df78@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: Programming style question
From	Bart Van der Donck <bart@nijlen.com>

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Patricia Shanahan wrote:

> I don't know if you are including me in "girls", but I still
> remember life as an assembly language programmer in 1970. I've
> also done significant programming in Forth and Pascal, but
> I've only done some student exercises in Algol.
>  
> However, I tend to be more interested in what is going on now
> and what will happen in the future [...]

My point of view is that you give a bit too much importance to javascript. I'm coding javascript for about 15 years, and I can count on one hand my projects where javascript played the first violin.

Javascript is at its best in small code snippets where not much can go wrong, in addition to the main server-side logic; in the first place to improve usability, speed and comfort for the user. In that regard, I believe javascript is certainly a must-have tool for any web developer.

Personally I use javascript mostly in form checking, small to midsize calculations and user interface design (mouseovers, dropdown options, to name a few). But not much core engine tasks.

I have some kind of personal rule to start a new project with the idea "OK, now this time we will use a minimum of javascript". But usually I end up with a good deal of javascript anyhow. It easily gets more and more complex.

The more complexity you add to a program, the more vulnerable it becomes to weaknesses. In my experience, in javascript this counts double. Complex js projects are absolutely to avoid; the browser quirks are (still) many and your program may fail where you expect it the least. Especially as a beginner, you might see your code run fine in a web-based environment, while your neighbour is cursing who the hell wrote such a thing. It's not the coder who is a blockhead; it's about the language design itself, for a big part due to the sprawl of browser and their versions.

Take some of the world's most highly qualified javascript libs/apps (JQuery, Google, ...). The risk of failure is still quite high. Extreme care is needed when using recent js syntax in production code; in my view it's often better to avoid them in stead of using trickery like browser detection, feature detection and the like (not to say that feature detection is bad; all depends on the reasonably expected compatibility of the situation).

Javascript is nice. Modern. Trendy. Can do things with it that look very webby and fancy, and can assist the server side logic here and there. And that's for me a reason to keep using it. But not as reliable as C, SQL, and the like. Javascript is not unixy in the sense of building complex stuff with simple bricks. Handle sparingly and with care.

Hope this helps more than confuses.

-- 
 Bart

Thread

Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-18 08:32 +0100
  Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-18 10:23 +0200
    Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-18 13:42 +0100
      Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-18 17:59 +0200
        Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-18 09:56 -0700
          Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-19 00:49 +0200
            Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-19 11:04 -0700
              Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-20 11:52 +0200
            Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-19 12:06 -0700
              Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-19 23:12 +0100
                Re: Programming style question "Mel Smith" <med_cutout_syntel@aol.com> - 2012-10-19 21:56 -0600
              Re: Programming style question Bart Van der Donck <bart@nijlen.com> - 2012-10-20 02:21 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-20 12:03 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-20 06:31 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-20 18:30 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-20 10:32 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-20 22:34 +0100
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-21 10:12 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-21 09:34 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Dr J R Stockton <reply1242@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-10-21 17:59 +0100
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-22 09:55 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-22 09:50 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-22 04:49 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-22 14:04 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> - 2012-10-22 16:07 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Dr J R Stockton <reply1243@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-10-23 18:22 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> - 2012-10-22 16:01 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Jim T. <x@y.z> - 2012-10-22 12:16 -0400
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-22 11:40 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-22 14:01 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> - 2012-10-23 10:07 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-23 09:43 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-23 11:49 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Jim T. <x@y.z> - 2012-10-23 15:52 -0400
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-23 13:07 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-23 22:45 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-23 14:14 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-24 09:35 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-24 10:17 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Dr J R Stockton <reply1243@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-10-25 18:41 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-25 17:03 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-25 20:14 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-25 20:46 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-26 09:55 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-26 06:18 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-26 17:43 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-26 09:57 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-26 10:24 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-26 14:18 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-27 10:45 +0200
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-27 12:58 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-27 16:18 +0200
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-27 18:08 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-27 18:26 +0200
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-27 19:43 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-27 21:09 +0200
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-27 22:53 +0200
                Re: Programming style question John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-28 11:37 +0000
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-28 12:50 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> - 2012-10-28 13:43 -0600
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-28 23:58 +0100
                Re: Programming style question John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-29 11:18 +0000
                Re: Programming style question Eric Bednarz <bednarz@fahr-zur-hoelle.org> - 2012-10-27 23:58 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-28 12:43 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Dr J R Stockton <reply1243@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-10-27 19:44 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-24 12:06 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 21:27 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-24 15:12 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-25 01:29 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-10-24 21:25 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 21:57 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-10-25 01:11 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-10-25 02:00 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-24 20:27 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-25 08:44 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Adam Silver <adambsilver@gmail.com> - 2012-10-25 04:28 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-25 23:18 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-26 08:24 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-11-07 22:13 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-11-07 21:51 +0000
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-11-07 23:47 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-11-08 01:14 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-11-07 16:51 -0800
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-11-08 16:45 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-11-08 08:02 -0800
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-11-08 17:39 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-11-08 11:25 -0800
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-11-08 22:25 +0100
                Re: Programming style question John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-11-09 10:19 +0000
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-11-09 17:41 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Dr J R Stockton <reply1245@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-10 22:38 +0000
                Re: Programming style question Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 12:32 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> - 2012-10-23 10:05 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-10-22 22:11 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-10-23 02:42 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> - 2012-10-23 10:08 +0200
              Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-20 18:34 +0200
  Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-18 11:57 +0200
    Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-18 13:06 +0100
      Re: Programming style question "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-10-18 15:32 +0300
        Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-18 13:37 +0100
          Re: Programming style question "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-10-18 15:55 +0300
          Re: Programming style question John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-19 10:12 +0100
            Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-19 07:24 -0700
              Re: Programming style question John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-20 17:47 +0100
          Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 01:15 +0100
            Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 01:31 +0100
            Re: Programming style question "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-10-24 07:34 +0300
              Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 19:57 +0200
                Re: Programming style question "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-10-24 21:02 +0300
        Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-18 20:15 -0700
      Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 01:21 +0100
  Re: Programming style question Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-21 17:57 -0700

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