Re: Programming style question

From	Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.javascript
Subject	Re: Programming style question
Date	2012-10-19 11:04 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<935388lu912j7f0ru8j1e9pb8936d2bng7@4ax.com> (permalink)
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On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 00:49:58 +0200, "Evertjan."
<exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> wrote:

>Gene Wirchenko wrote on 18 okt 2012 in comp.lang.javascript:
>
>>>The "trend" perhaps, but in older compiling languages, a typed
>>>variable got it's own permanent number of bytes. Even a string had to
>>>be definet 
>> 
>>      That would depend on the language.  For example, PL/I (started by
>> IBM in the '60s; old enough?) has variable length strings
>>           declare howeverlong char(50) varying;
>> Whether this is permanently set aside is an implementation issue, but
>> not a requirement.
>> 
>>      Compiled BASICs had and have dynamically-allocated strings. Older
>> languages could, too; 
>
>No, Gene, ofcourse there are exceptions, 
>but those do not reduce my point.

     You made a general statement.

>Remember that compiled basics are latecomers, and that basic used to be a 
>script-language for many many years before that. 

     What would you consider a latecomer?  I used a BASIC compiler
first about thirty years ago.

>Remember that in basic a variable name could only be a letter plus a 
>number, not a meaningful word, making remarks necessary for nearly every 

     That has not been true for over three decades.

>line of code, that a subroutines existed but user functions not, and 

     User functions have existed possibly from the beginning.  They
were very limited (only one line).  I used DEC's BASIC-Plus in the
mid-'70s and you could define multiline functions.

>reentant subroutines were impossible, because they only could exist with 
>dynamic memory, local variables [as in closures] and return values.

     They were not impossible.  I did it.

>The primary idea of basic dim-ing [and pascal and even js var-ing] was to 
>allocate memory, not as a "option explicit" error-finding mission.

     How is this even relevant?  I use many features for multiple
reasons.

>> it is not a new concept.
>
>You young boys and girls perhaps do not remember programming in Assembler 
>or Forth, [or Algol], [and think pascal is a small form of hectopascal] so 
>have a limited definition of "new" in this field.

     I will be turning 52 next month.  I have used all of the
languages in your paragraph.  And more.

>>>with it's maximum length. This is still an important issue with
>>>databases, as you may well know.
>> 
>>      Well, not really.  varchar(max) in SQL Server is limited to
>> 2^31-1 bytes.  That much memory is not allocated for each such string.
>
>Access up to this day requires simple strings to have a maximum size, and 
>has a seperate type for strings upto 2 meg, I believe. 

     I use long strings in tables.  I rarely need anything that long.
I would question the design.

     Access is but one DBMS and a low-end one.  It is hardly a good
sample of the entire field.

>Javascript in most or all aplications still has the nasty habit that
>string-size is inmutable and that any change in size needs a new 
>stringallocation in memory. That is not important anymore in memorywize, 
>as we have plenty of that, but makes string-concatenation very, very slow.

     That is an implementation issue and hardly makes it impossible.

>This does not have to be, it is just a memory of the past, but more 
>intelligent concatenation is notr implemented [yet].

     It would be nice.  It was a change in Visual FoxPro that some
really liked.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Thread

Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-18 08:32 +0100
  Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-18 10:23 +0200
    Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-18 13:42 +0100
      Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-18 17:59 +0200
        Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-18 09:56 -0700
          Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-19 00:49 +0200
            Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-19 11:04 -0700
              Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-20 11:52 +0200
            Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-19 12:06 -0700
              Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-19 23:12 +0100
                Re: Programming style question "Mel Smith" <med_cutout_syntel@aol.com> - 2012-10-19 21:56 -0600
              Re: Programming style question Bart Van der Donck <bart@nijlen.com> - 2012-10-20 02:21 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-20 12:03 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-20 06:31 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-20 18:30 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-20 10:32 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-20 22:34 +0100
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-21 10:12 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-21 09:34 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Dr J R Stockton <reply1242@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-10-21 17:59 +0100
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-22 09:55 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-22 09:50 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-22 04:49 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-22 14:04 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> - 2012-10-22 16:07 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Dr J R Stockton <reply1243@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-10-23 18:22 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> - 2012-10-22 16:01 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Jim T. <x@y.z> - 2012-10-22 12:16 -0400
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-22 11:40 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-22 14:01 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> - 2012-10-23 10:07 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-23 09:43 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-23 11:49 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Jim T. <x@y.z> - 2012-10-23 15:52 -0400
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-23 13:07 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-23 22:45 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-23 14:14 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-24 09:35 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-24 10:17 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Dr J R Stockton <reply1243@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-10-25 18:41 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-25 17:03 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-25 20:14 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-25 20:46 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-26 09:55 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-26 06:18 -0700
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-26 17:43 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-26 09:57 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-26 10:24 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-26 14:18 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-27 10:45 +0200
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-27 12:58 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-27 16:18 +0200
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-27 18:08 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-27 18:26 +0200
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-27 19:43 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-27 21:09 +0200
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-27 22:53 +0200
                Re: Programming style question John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-28 11:37 +0000
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-28 12:50 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> - 2012-10-28 13:43 -0600
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-28 23:58 +0100
                Re: Programming style question John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-29 11:18 +0000
                Re: Programming style question Eric Bednarz <bednarz@fahr-zur-hoelle.org> - 2012-10-27 23:58 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-28 12:43 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Dr J R Stockton <reply1243@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-10-27 19:44 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-24 12:06 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 21:27 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-24 15:12 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-25 01:29 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-10-24 21:25 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 21:57 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-10-25 01:11 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-10-25 02:00 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-24 20:27 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-25 08:44 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Adam Silver <adambsilver@gmail.com> - 2012-10-25 04:28 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-25 23:18 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-26 08:24 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-11-07 22:13 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-11-07 21:51 +0000
                Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-11-07 23:47 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-11-08 01:14 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-11-07 16:51 -0800
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-11-08 16:45 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-11-08 08:02 -0800
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-11-08 17:39 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-11-08 11:25 -0800
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-11-08 22:25 +0100
                Re: Programming style question John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-11-09 10:19 +0000
                Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-11-09 17:41 +0100
                Re: Programming style question Dr J R Stockton <reply1245@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-10 22:38 +0000
                Re: Programming style question Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 12:32 -0700
                Re: Programming style question Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> - 2012-10-23 10:05 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-10-22 22:11 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-10-23 02:42 +0200
                Re: Programming style question Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> - 2012-10-23 10:08 +0200
              Re: Programming style question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-20 18:34 +0200
  Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-18 11:57 +0200
    Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-18 13:06 +0100
      Re: Programming style question "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-10-18 15:32 +0300
        Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-18 13:37 +0100
          Re: Programming style question "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-10-18 15:55 +0300
          Re: Programming style question John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-19 10:12 +0100
            Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-19 07:24 -0700
              Re: Programming style question John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-20 17:47 +0100
          Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 01:15 +0100
            Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 01:31 +0100
            Re: Programming style question "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-10-24 07:34 +0300
              Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 19:57 +0200
                Re: Programming style question "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-10-24 21:02 +0300
        Re: Programming style question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-18 20:15 -0700
      Re: Programming style question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-24 01:21 +0100
  Re: Programming style question Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-21 17:57 -0700

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