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Re: Date arithmetic

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Dr J R Stockton wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn posted:
>> […]  Using UTC avoids the problem of possible DST switches with
>> local time.  Neither UTC nor local time can avoid the non-existence of
>> dates at a specific location, and the inability of ECMAScript
>> implementations to deal with that natively.  So your statement that “UTC
>> will be no help whatsoever in dealing with those locations” is simply
>> false.
> 
> No, it is true (except that (1) UTC will help with any locations that
> have seasonal clock changes, and (2) UTC will be faster).
> 
> If Swifty had been operating a cottage in Western Samoa at that time, he
> would have needed to avoid "Sommerzeit" difficulties in the same way as
> he now does, and he would have needed also to consider how he wanted to
> handle a six-day week.

Nonsense.  Any reasonable computer system, particularly one connected to the 
Internet and presenting a *World-Wide* Web application, stores dates in UTC 
and converts them for display to avoid such issues.  It is only logical that 
if the client side is to provide a user interface causing data to be stored 
server side data (or at least to generate a message to that effect) would 
use UTC as well.

>>> And what Samoa has done recently might be done, in either direction, by
>>> such places in the near future.  And it is even possible that Swifty's
>>> cottage may have future bookings from residents of such places.
>>
>> It is irrelevant where his guests are from.  It is relevant where is
>> cottage is located because his guests pay for the days they spend *there*
>> instead of their home.  So again, do you have reason to believe that the
>> United Kingdom is going to skip dates in the future?  If not, why are you
>> arguing?
>> 
> The benevolent Swifty will want to help his guests arrive on the British
> date that they are expecting to arrive on.

I find your argument strewn with gaping defects in logic.  He and the 
potential visitors to his cottage need to agree on a timekeeping scheme for 
reasonable booking data.  Since the cottage is the target of the stay, it is 
the timekeeping at the location of the cottage that is being agreed on.

This agreement is so common that it is negatively surprising that you are 
(pretending to be) ignorant of it.  For example, when I am booking a room in 
a London hotel on the Web, which I have done recently, and they say that I 
need to check in before 10 p.m., naturally I assume that it means 10 p.m. 
London time and not 10 p.m. CE(S)T.  Even the flight plan states the time of 
arrival according to the local time at the destination.

>>> Your file date.js misuses the term "timezone" or "time zone";
>> Prove it.
> 
> Read Wikipedia on Time Zone, and the sites of the better National
> Standards laboratories to show that Wikipedia is right.  The IERS should
> be especially authoritative, but may consider the matter off-topic.  You
> can also read my Web site.  Do not, of course, believe Microsoft, or
> indeed any American outside NIST and its associates, or ECMA.

The above is not the proof that was required of you, but only several other 
unfounded claims.  It is the failure to provide proof.

>>> At least one of your site's "entry" pages behaves badly in a browser
>>> using Zoom Text Only.
>> A setting that for good reasons has not been the default for several
>> years, if not a decade now, and is absent from the majority of current,
>> widely distributed user agents.  But I will look into it.  If you really
>> would like to help with that, you should point out which “entry 'page'”
>> exhibits problems in that regard and how it “behaves badly”, exactly.
> 
> For example, <http://pointedears.de/>, <http://pointedears.de/index.en>,
> <http://pointedears.de/index.ru> - the latter of which (like index.de)
> contains more English than at first sight seems entirely right.

First sight can be misleading.  The amount of English in the German version 
is just right; given your record, you should not profess to understand the 
German language or the reading habits of people who are native speakers of 
German.  As for the Russian version, it is under construction, although I am 
certain that not all texts there should be translated to Russian (see other 
Web sites in Russian).  For example, the legalese at the bottom was 
intentionally not translated in either language version.

> And you seem to have missed the most recent Firefox updates.

“Zoom Text Only” still is not the default there, so what are you getting at?

> Look also, for example, at the top of <http://pointedears.de/wsvn/>

Yes, there is a bug (an extra icon as background image) that I inherited 
from WebSVN and have not fixed in my fork.  It is only visible where 
“select” elements can be styled to that effect.  However, it may never be 
fixed now that I am going to migrate to Git ASAP.

> Note that Zoom Text Only is likely to be most used by the more mature
> users (who sometimes have the most money), and those with disabilities
> of sight (who should be assisted at least as much as is reasonably
> possible)

Wishful thinking to rationalise your impolite, arrogant behaviour.

-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | SVN: <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | ES Matrix: <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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Date arithmetic Swifty <steve.j.swift@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 12:38 +0000
  Re: Date arithmetic "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2014-11-11 15:10 +0100
    Re: Date arithmetic Swifty <steve.j.swift@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 22:07 +0000
      Re: Date arithmetic Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-11-11 22:37 +0000
        Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-12 02:40 +0100
          Re: Date arithmetic "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2014-11-12 08:21 +0100
            Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-13 15:27 +0100
              Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-13 21:26 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-14 14:16 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-15 07:13 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-15 19:36 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-16 17:24 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-16 18:49 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-17 00:14 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2014-11-16 10:51 -0800
                Re: Date arithmetic "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2014-11-16 20:17 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-17 00:52 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-17 01:11 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-18 16:18 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-19 11:00 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-21 22:58 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-22 18:33 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-23 19:38 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-24 01:14 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-25 21:17 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-26 18:25 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-27 19:34 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-28 01:25 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2014-11-28 05:29 -0800
                Re: Date arithmetic Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2014-11-28 11:44 +1100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2014-11-28 04:52 -0800
                Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-28 14:24 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-28 14:47 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2014-11-28 06:12 -0800
                Re: Date arithmetic Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2014-11-29 16:59 +1100
                Re: Date arithmetic John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-29 20:05 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2014-11-29 23:47 -0200
                Re: Date arithmetic Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-01 10:44 +1100
                Re: Date arithmetic Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-11-30 23:54 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-01 13:01 +1100
                Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-17 01:34 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-17 01:41 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-18 19:06 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-18 16:26 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-19 17:52 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-11-19 09:44 -0800
                Re: Date arithmetic "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2014-11-19 19:34 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-11-19 19:13 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2014-11-19 22:18 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-11-19 13:43 -0800
                Re: Date arithmetic Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-11-19 22:40 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-11-19 22:51 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-11-19 23:35 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-19 23:10 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-11-19 22:32 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-11-19 23:26 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-20 00:47 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-11-20 00:17 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2014-11-20 01:18 -0800
                Re: Date arithmetic Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-11-20 13:47 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-21 22:29 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2014-11-19 19:24 -0200
                Re: Date arithmetic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-11-19 13:40 -0800
                Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-19 23:40 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-18 16:44 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-19 11:20 +0100
                Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-14 20:45 +0000
                Re: Date arithmetic "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2014-11-15 14:13 -0800
                Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-15 23:42 +0100
      Re: Date arithmetic "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2014-11-12 00:23 +0100
      Re: Date arithmetic Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-11-12 13:24 +0000
        Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-12 14:43 +0100
          Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-12 19:48 +0100
            Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-13 01:18 +0100
          Re: Date arithmetic Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-11-12 20:19 +0000
            Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-13 03:42 +0100
    Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-12 20:06 +0000
    Re: Date arithmetic RobG <rgqld@iinet.net.au> - 2014-11-23 20:51 -0800
      Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-25 20:08 +0000
        Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-26 01:31 +0100
        Re: Date arithmetic RobG <rgqld@iinet.net.au> - 2014-12-08 19:42 -0800
      Re: Date arithmetic "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-11-26 01:40 +0100
      Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-26 22:07 +0100
        Re: Date arithmetic RobG <rgqld@iinet.net.au> - 2014-12-08 21:41 -0800
          Re: Date arithmetic "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2014-12-09 09:47 +0100
          Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-12-09 14:17 +0100
          Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-12-10 23:34 +0000
            Re: Date arithmetic RobG <rgqld@iinet.net.au> - 2014-12-10 17:21 -0800
              Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-12-13 17:19 +0000
          Re: Date arithmetic RobG <rgqld@iinet.net.au> - 2014-12-10 18:35 -0800
  Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-11 22:29 +0100
    Re: Date arithmetic Swifty <steve.j.swift@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 21:53 +0000
      Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-11 23:43 +0100
        Re: Date arithmetic John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-12 15:49 +0000
  Re: Date arithmetic Dr J R Stockton <reply1400@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-11-12 19:58 +0000
  Re: Date arithmetic Dr.Kral@nyc.rr.com - 2014-11-13 20:24 -0500
    Re: Date arithmetic Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-11-14 04:34 +0100

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