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can you give me some hints on the Oracle Java SE related certificates?

Started by	John <xsli2@yahoo.com>
First post	2015-09-18 07:55 -0700
Last post	2015-09-22 11:17 -0400
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#32604 — can you give me some hints on the Oracle Java SE related certificates?

From	John <xsli2@yahoo.com>
Date	2015-09-18 07:55 -0700
Subject	can you give me some hints on the Oracle Java SE related certificates?
Message-ID	<fa1addaf-a2c9-4a3e-9ff9-6df2a65f2f43@googlegroups.com>

Hi:

I will become a Java instructor of computer science in a local college in a developing country in Asia.

To make my students more valuable in the job market in our country or maybe in US, I want my students achieve Oracle Java SE certificates. I myself have been programming in Java EE in United States for more than 10 years. I have never paid attention to the Oracle certification program. I don't have any Java certificate.

I just checked Oracle's website. There are a thousand kinds of certificates. This Java SE category maybe the right place for my students:

http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/ou_product_category.getPage?p_cat_id=267#tabs-3

Can you give some hints on these certificates? For the undergraduate students, what certificates are appropriate for them? 

I am curious about the master certificate. Is that really challenging for somebody with 10 years Java experience?

Thank you very much.

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#32607

From	Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date	2015-09-18 12:08 -0400
Message-ID	<mthcs7$e1j$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32604

On 09/18/2015 10:55 AM, John wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I will become a Java instructor of computer science in a local college in a developing country in Asia.
>
> To make my students more valuable in the job market in our country or maybe in US, I want my students achieve Oracle Java SE certificates. I myself have been programming in Java EE in United States for more than 10 years. I have never paid attention to the Oracle certification program. I don't have any Java certificate.
>
> I just checked Oracle's website. There are a thousand kinds of certificates. This Java SE category maybe the right place for my students:
>
> http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/ou_product_category.getPage?p_cat_id=267#tabs-3
>
> Can you give some hints on these certificates? For the undergraduate students, what certificates are appropriate for them?
>
> I am curious about the master certificate. Is that really challenging for somebody with 10 years Java experience?
>
> Thank you very much.
>
I will become a Java Instructor.

I've never had any Java certificates,
never needed any Java certificates,
not real sure what Java certificates are
or what they are good for.

I want my future students to achieve Java certificates.

Can you give me some hints?

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#32608

From	John <xsli2@yahoo.com>
Date	2015-09-18 09:17 -0700
Message-ID	<92ec7821-b17d-4af8-9c99-8a7649fa64ec@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#32607

It looks like another bad day.

Can you have something better to do, instead of poking my statements here?

I am a Java developer with 10 years experience. I don't know much about Oracle Java certificates because I don't need one -- you never heard of it?. I am asking the information about those certificates for my future students. Is that absurd to you?

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#32609

From	e.d.programmer@gmail.com
Date	2015-09-18 10:38 -0700
Message-ID	<2fd007f2-64ec-490a-8e87-18bddc2287f0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#32608

On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 12:18:10 PM UTC-4, John wrote:
> It looks like another bad day.
> 
> Can you have something better to do, instead of poking my statements here?
> 
> I am a Java developer with 10 years experience. I don't know much about Oracle Java certificates because I don't need one -- you never heard of it?. I am asking the information about those certificates for my future students. Is that absurd to you?
---
What kind of job do you want them to get?  Anyone with a bachelor's degree from a respectable college should know what the certifications say they know.  Certification is a nice tagline to add to a resume after the degree.  Most US employers won't hire a programmer without a degree.  If US companies are hiring anyone with a degree from another country that cost much less than a US college we have a problem.

The associate certification says you know the basics of Java and can learn to write code.  The professional certification says you know how to write code and can run with a project on your own.  The master certification says you know how to make your own project from overall design phase to coding and implementation.  Being a developer for 10 years means you'd better know how to ace the Professional certification.  Additional stuff in the Master level is stuff any large company would want their project lead to know, but you could write code just fine without.

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#32612

From	John <xsli2@yahoo.com>
Date	2015-09-18 11:34 -0700
Message-ID	<b55d44ad-4bab-4ed6-aa38-3517d2f9164d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#32609

On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 1:39:11 PM UTC-4, e.d.pro...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 12:18:10 PM UTC-4, John wrote:
> > It looks like another bad day.
> > 
> > Can you have something better to do, instead of poking my statements here?
> > 
> > I am a Java developer with 10 years experience. I don't know much about Oracle Java certificates because I don't need one -- you never heard of it?. I am asking the information about those certificates for my future students. Is that absurd to you?
> ---
> What kind of job do you want them to get?  Anyone with a bachelor's degree from a respectable college should know what the certifications say they know.  Certification is a nice tagline to add to a resume after the degree.  Most US employers won't hire a programmer without a degree.  If US companies are hiring anyone with a degree from another country that cost much less than a US college we have a problem.
> 
> The associate certification says you know the basics of Java and can learn to write code.  The professional certification says you know how to write code and can run with a project on your own.  The master certification says you know how to make your own project from overall design phase to coding and implementation.  Being a developer for 10 years means you'd better know how to ace the Professional certification.  Additional stuff in the Master level is stuff any large company would want their project lead to know, but you could write code just fine without.

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

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#32610

From	Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date	2015-09-18 13:51 -0400
Message-ID	<mthit8$784$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32608

On 09/18/2015 12:17 PM, John wrote:
> It looks like another bad day.

Shrug. Sorry for your luck.
>
> Can you have something better to do, instead of poking my statements here?

I can.

>
> I am a Java developer with 10 years experience.
> I don't know much about Oracle Java certificates because I don't need one --

Why then do you think your future students will?

you never heard of it?.

Heard of what?

> I am asking the information about those certificates for my future students.

You don't seem to be putting much effort into it.

> Is that absurd to you?

I deem your post absurd.

I will replace the parts that you snipped.

----

I will become a Java instructor of computer science in a local college 
in a developing country in Asia.

To make my students more valuable in the job market in our country or 
maybe in US, I want my students achieve Oracle Java SE certificates.

How will Oracle Java SE certificates make your students more valuable.
How much more valuable? More valuable to whom? Who says?

----

I myself have been programming in Java EE in United States for more than 
10 years. I have never paid attention to the Oracle certification 
program. I don't have any Java certificate.

Would you have been more valuable had you achieved any Java certificate?

----

I just checked Oracle's website. There are a thousand kinds of 
certificates. This Java SE category maybe the right place for my students:

http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/ou_product_category.getPage?p_cat_id=267#tabs-3

Who knows? Who will judge the value of your students?
What criteria will they use in their judgment?

----

Can you give some hints on these certificates?

Some hints? WTF?

----

For the undergraduate students, what certificates are appropriate for them?

They will be your students, you tell us.

----

I am curious about the master certificate. Is that really challenging 
for somebody with 10 years Java experience?

You have 10 years experience. Would it challenge you?

----

Thank you very much.

You're very welcome.

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#32611

From	e.d.programmer@gmail.com
Date	2015-09-18 11:11 -0700
Message-ID	<4245d965-6d79-4bdf-accd-dc51520d3273@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#32610

On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 1:52:38 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> How will Oracle Java SE certificates make your students more valuable.
> How much more valuable? More valuable to whom? Who says?
> 
> ----

Assuming they're not going to be self employed, the value is to a potential employer, which is hard to quantify because potential employers are not required to send rejection letters.  If you have a certification you're going to be far below someone with a US 4 year college degree in the programming field, unless you have a comparable degree, then that certification tagline could bump you ahead of them.
Just read the description of the certification and be sure it applies to the job you want or it may just be a waste of money.

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#32613

From	Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date	2015-09-18 18:56 -0400
Message-ID	<mti4pt$igj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32611

On 09/18/2015 02:11 PM, e.d.programmer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 1:52:38 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> How will Oracle Java SE certificates make your students more valuable.
>> How much more valuable? More valuable to whom? Who says?
>>
>> ----
>
> Assuming they're not going to be self employed, the value is to a potential employer, which is hard to quantify because potential employers are not required to send rejection letters.  If you have a certification you're going to be far below someone with a US 4 year college degree in the programming field, unless you have a comparable degree, then that certification tagline could bump you ahead of them.
> Just read the description of the certification and be sure it applies to the job you want or it may just be a waste of money.
>

I'm concerned that the topic of Java Certification didn't come
up during an interview for the position of "Java instructor of
computer science in a local college in a developing country in Asia"

As a student trying to decide whether to enroll in a course led
by the OP I would have been grateful for a pointer to this thread.

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#32615

From	John <xsli2@yahoo.com>
Date	2015-09-18 20:23 -0700
Message-ID	<313f817e-9d7c-4939-a971-7e2b2a85d35f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#32613

On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 6:58:12 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> On 09/18/2015 02:11 PM, e.d.programmer@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 1:52:38 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> >> How will Oracle Java SE certificates make your students more valuable.
> >> How much more valuable? More valuable to whom? Who says?
> >>
> >> ----
> >
> > Assuming they're not going to be self employed, the value is to a potential employer, which is hard to quantify because potential employers are not required to send rejection letters.  If you have a certification you're going to be far below someone with a US 4 year college degree in the programming field, unless you have a comparable degree, then that certification tagline could bump you ahead of them.
> > Just read the description of the certification and be sure it applies to the job you want or it may just be a waste of money.
> >
> 
> I'm concerned that the topic of Java Certification didn't come
> up during an interview for the position of "Java instructor of
> computer science in a local college in a developing country in Asia"
> 
> As a student trying to decide whether to enroll in a course led
> by the OP I would have been grateful for a pointer to this thread.

Jeff:
If you really have nothing better to do, here is one Java SE question for you:
Can you explain to me why Java cannot have multiple inheritance? Please note, I am asking WHY. This is Java 101 question. I am sure you look shining when my future students look at your answer on this thread, or the opposite way. One of the other.

Have a nice weekend!

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#32617

From	Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date	2015-09-19 09:29 -0400
Message-ID	<mtjnuc$98u$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32615

On 09/18/2015 11:23 PM, John wrote:
> On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 6:58:12 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> On 09/18/2015 02:11 PM, e.d.programmer@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 1:52:38 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>>> How will Oracle Java SE certificates make your students more valuable.
>>>> How much more valuable? More valuable to whom? Who says?
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>
>>> Assuming they're not going to be self employed, the value is to a potential employer, which is hard to quantify because potential employers are not required to send rejection letters.  If you have a certification you're going to be far below someone with a US 4 year college degree in the programming field, unless you have a comparable degree, then that certification tagline could bump you ahead of them.
>>> Just read the description of the certification and be sure it applies to the job you want or it may just be a waste of money.
>>>
>>
>> I'm concerned that the topic of Java Certification didn't come
>> up during an interview for the position of "Java instructor of
>> computer science in a local college in a developing country in Asia"
>>
>> As a student trying to decide whether to enroll in a course led
>> by the OP I would have been grateful for a pointer to this thread.
>
> Jeff:
> If you really have nothing better to do, here is one Java SE question for you:
> Can you explain to me why Java cannot have multiple inheritance?
> Please note, I am asking WHY.

I am asking WHY you cannot be more
precise in communicating on Java topics.

> This is Java 101 question.
> I am sure you look shining when my future students look at your answer on this thread,
 > or the opposite way. One of the other.

You may point your students to this topic in the Java Tutorials.

Multiple Inheritance of State, Implementation, and Type
<https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/IandI/multipleinheritance.html>

and

James Gosling on Java, May 1999
Inspiration for the Interface
<http://www.artima.com/intv/gosling13.html>

>
> Have a nice weekend!
>
Thank you!

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#32618

From	Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date	2015-09-19 10:00 -0400
Message-ID	<mtjppt$g5v$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32615

On 09/18/2015 11:23 PM, John wrote:
> On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 6:58:12 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> On 09/18/2015 02:11 PM, e.d.programmer@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 1:52:38 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>>> How will Oracle Java SE certificates make your students more valuable.
>>>> How much more valuable? More valuable to whom? Who says?
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>
>>> Assuming they're not going to be self employed, the value is to a potential employer, which is hard to quantify because potential employers are not required to send rejection letters.  If you have a certification you're going to be far below someone with a US 4 year college degree in the programming field, unless you have a comparable degree, then that certification tagline could bump you ahead of them.
>>> Just read the description of the certification and be sure it applies to the job you want or it may just be a waste of money.
>>>
>>
>> I'm concerned that the topic of Java Certification didn't come
>> up during an interview for the position of "Java instructor of
>> computer science in a local college in a developing country in Asia"
>>
>> As a student trying to decide whether to enroll in a course led
>> by the OP I would have been grateful for a pointer to this thread.
>
> Jeff:
> If you really have nothing better to do, here is one Java SE question for you:
> Can you explain to me why Java cannot have multiple inheritance? Please note, I am asking WHY. This is Java 101 question. I am sure you look shining when my future students look at your answer on this thread, or the opposite way. One of the other.
>
For some of your more curious students you might point to
the chapter titled "Data Abstraction and Object Orientation"
in:

Scott, Michael L. Programming Language Pragmatics.
San Francisco: Morgan Kaufmann, 2000.

You may see all editions here:
<http://www.cs.rochester.edu/~scott/pragmatics/>

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#32620

From	John <xsli2@yahoo.com>
Date	2015-09-21 13:57 -0700
Message-ID	<430f5ded-3382-476a-ae5e-ef12427e1542@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#32618

On Saturday, September 19, 2015 at 10:02:34 AM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> On 09/18/2015 11:23 PM, John wrote:
> > On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 6:58:12 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> >> On 09/18/2015 02:11 PM, e.d.programmer@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 1:52:38 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> >>>> How will Oracle Java SE certificates make your students more valuable.
> >>>> How much more valuable? More valuable to whom? Who says?
> >>>>
> >>>> ----
> >>>
> >>> Assuming they're not going to be self employed, the value is to a potential employer, which is hard to quantify because potential employers are not required to send rejection letters.  If you have a certification you're going to be far below someone with a US 4 year college degree in the programming field, unless you have a comparable degree, then that certification tagline could bump you ahead of them.
> >>> Just read the description of the certification and be sure it applies to the job you want or it may just be a waste of money.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I'm concerned that the topic of Java Certification didn't come
> >> up during an interview for the position of "Java instructor of
> >> computer science in a local college in a developing country in Asia"
> >>
> >> As a student trying to decide whether to enroll in a course led
> >> by the OP I would have been grateful for a pointer to this thread.
> >
> > Jeff:
> > If you really have nothing better to do, here is one Java SE question for you:
> > Can you explain to me why Java cannot have multiple inheritance? Please note, I am asking WHY. This is Java 101 question. I am sure you look shining when my future students look at your answer on this thread, or the opposite way. One of the other.
> >
> For some of your more curious students you might point to
> the chapter titled "Data Abstraction and Object Orientation"
> in:
> 
> Scott, Michael L. Programming Language Pragmatics.
> San Francisco: Morgan Kaufmann, 2000.
> 
> You may see all editions here:
> <http://www.cs.rochester.edu/~scott/pragmatics/>

Wow, Jeff:
I am asking(testing) you a question("Why Java cannot have multiple inheritance?") and you threw back to me a web link first and a book later. You are really "shining"!!!

Here is my answer to the question:

Suppose Java can have multiple inheritance, let's say both BaseA and BaseB are two concrete classes:

public class BaseA {
    public void sayHi(){System.out.println("Hi from A!");
}

public class BaseB {
    public void sayHi(){System.out.println("Hi from B!");
}

public class MyClass extends BaseA, BaseB { //multiple inheritance is not allowed
    public static void main(String[] args) {
       MyClass c = new MyClass();
       c.sayHi();  //Will it say "Hi from A!" or "Hi from B!"?
    }
}

For Java, in order to achieve multiple inheritance effect, we use interface:

public interface BaseC {
    public void sayHi();
}

public class MyClass extends BaseA implements BaseC {

    public void sayHi() {//MyClass must implement this method to be concrete
       System.out.println("Hi I am here!");
    }
    
    public static void main(String[] args) {
       MyClass c = new MyClass();
       c.sayHi();  //prints "Hi I am here"
    }
}

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#32621

From	John <xsli2@yahoo.com>
Date	2015-09-21 14:04 -0700
Message-ID	<b21cffb0-503e-4d3a-9ef4-6fb436afb084@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#32620

public interface BaseC {
    public void walk();
    public void sayHi();
}

public interface BaseD {
    public void jump();
    public void sayHi();
}

public interface BaseE {
    public void run();
    public void sayHi();
}

public class MyClass extends BaseA implements BaseC, BaseD, BaseE {

    public void sayHi() {//MyClass must implement this method to be concrete
       System.out.println("Hi I am here!");
    }
    //...implementation of other methods in the interfaces
   
    public static void main(String[] args) {
       MyClass c = new MyClass();
       c.sayHi();  //prints "Hi I am here"
    }
}

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#32622

From	Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date	2015-09-21 21:47 -0400
Message-ID	<mtqbv8$v7r$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32620

On 09/21/2015 04:57 PM, John wrote:
> On Saturday, September 19, 2015 at 10:02:34 AM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> On 09/18/2015 11:23 PM, John wrote:
>>> On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 6:58:12 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>>> On 09/18/2015 02:11 PM, e.d.programmer@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, September 18, 2015 at 1:52:38 PM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>>>>> How will Oracle Java SE certificates make your students more valuable.
>>>>>> How much more valuable? More valuable to whom? Who says?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>> Assuming they're not going to be self employed, the value is to a potential employer, which is hard to quantify because potential employers are not required to send rejection letters.  If you have a certification you're going to be far below someone with a US 4 year college degree in the programming field, unless you have a comparable degree, then that certification tagline could bump you ahead of them.
>>>>> Just read the description of the certification and be sure it applies to the job you want or it may just be a waste of money.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm concerned that the topic of Java Certification didn't come
>>>> up during an interview for the position of "Java instructor of
>>>> computer science in a local college in a developing country in Asia"
>>>>
>>>> As a student trying to decide whether to enroll in a course led
>>>> by the OP I would have been grateful for a pointer to this thread.
>>>
>>> Jeff:
>>> If you really have nothing better to do, here is one Java SE question for you:
>>> Can you explain to me why Java cannot have multiple inheritance? Please note, I am asking WHY. This is Java 101 question. I am sure you look shining when my future students look at your answer on this thread, or the opposite way. One of the other.
>>>
>> For some of your more curious students you might point to
>> the chapter titled "Data Abstraction and Object Orientation"
>> in:
>>
>> Scott, Michael L. Programming Language Pragmatics.
>> San Francisco: Morgan Kaufmann, 2000.
>>
>> You may see all editions here:
>> <http://www.cs.rochester.edu/~scott/pragmatics/>
>
> Wow, Jeff:
> I am asking(testing) you a question("Why Java cannot have multiple inheritance?") and you threw back to me a web link first and a book later. You are really "shining"!!!
>
> Here is my answer to the question:
>
> Suppose Java can have multiple inheritance, let's say both BaseA and BaseB are two concrete classes:
>
> public class BaseA {
>      public void sayHi(){System.out.println("Hi from A!");
> }
>
> public class BaseB {
>      public void sayHi(){System.out.println("Hi from B!");
> }
>
> public class MyClass extends BaseA, BaseB { //multiple inheritance is not allowed
>      public static void main(String[] args) {
>         MyClass c = new MyClass();
>         c.sayHi();  //Will it say "Hi from A!" or "Hi from B!"?
>      }
> }
>
> For Java, in order to achieve multiple inheritance effect, we use interface:
>
> public interface BaseC {
>      public void sayHi();
> }
>
> public class MyClass extends BaseA implements BaseC {
>
>      public void sayHi() {//MyClass must implement this method to be concrete
>         System.out.println("Hi I am here!");
>      }
>
>      public static void main(String[] args) {
>         MyClass c = new MyClass();
>         c.sayHi();  //prints "Hi I am here"
>      }
> }
>

 > public interface BaseC {
 >      public void walk();
 >      public void sayHi();
 > }
 >
 > public interface BaseD {
 >      public void jump();
 >      public void sayHi();
 > }
 >
 > public interface BaseE {
 >      public void run();
 >      public void sayHi();
 > }
 >
 > public class MyClass extends BaseA implements BaseC, BaseD, BaseE {
 >
 >      public void sayHi() {//MyClass must implement this method to be 
concrete
 >         System.out.println("Hi I am here!");
 >      }
 >      //...implementation of other methods in the interfaces
 >
 >      public static void main(String[] args) {
 >         MyClass c = new MyClass();
 >         c.sayHi();  //prints "Hi I am here"
 >      }
 > }
 >

Well, where to start? A question often pondered by authors, including
Usenet users posting or responding to articles, and Java instructors
of computer science preparing lesson plans or course notes.

Congratulations on having overcome the blank page.

What's next? Well, iteration. I'm sorry for having "thrown" links and
citations back to you, thing is, the material presented in these links
and citations has been iterated over time and again by their respective
authors, reviewed by many highly critical reviewers, and deemed to be
sound. If I were to present a discourse on "Inheritance in Java" I
would need considerably more time and motivation than I currently have.

Concerning motivation. There you have me. Unlike you, I don't give a
rat's a$$ about your future students. Well, really I do care about them
otherwise I wouldn't have responded to this article at all ....
But you, you are clearly motivated to provide your future students a
sound instruction and indeed you are concerned enough to consider their
future vocational needs such as Java Certification.

So, great start on the course notes, looking forward to the next
iteration. Hope to soon see your first draft on the topic of "Java
Certification". Carry on.

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#32637

From	Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date	2015-09-22 15:15 -0400
Message-ID	<mts9cc$nku$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32622

On 09/21/2015 09:47 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:

...If I were to present a discourse on "Inheritance in Java"...

After writing that I thought maybe discourse was the wrong word.
So I looked it up on Wikipedia and here is a short quote from that
article.

«
Moreover, because discourses are bodies of text meant to communicate
specific data, information, and knowledge, there exist internal
relations within a given discourse, and external relations among
discourses, because a discourse does not exist in isolation (per se),
but in relation to other discourses, which are determined and
established by means of inter discourse and interdiscursivity. Hence,
within a field of intellectual enquiry, the practitioners occasionally
debate “What is” and “What is not” discourse, according to the
conceptual meanings (denotation and connotation) used in the given
field of study.
»

Java (multiple) inheritance

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#32638

From	Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date	2015-09-22 16:47 -0400
Message-ID	<mtseoe$etf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32637

On 09/22/2015 03:15 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> On 09/21/2015 09:47 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>
> ...If I were to present a discourse on "Inheritance in Java"...
>
> After writing that I thought maybe discourse was the wrong word.
> So I looked it up on Wikipedia and here is a short quote from that
> article.
>
> «
> Moreover, because discourses are bodies of text meant to communicate
> specific data, information, and knowledge, there exist internal
> relations within a given discourse, and external relations among
> discourses, because a discourse does not exist in isolation (per se),
> but in relation to other discourses, which are determined and
> established by means of inter discourse and interdiscursivity. Hence,
> within a field of intellectual enquiry, the practitioners occasionally
> debate “What is” and “What is not” discourse, according to the
> conceptual meanings (denotation and connotation) used in the given
> field of study.
> »
>
> Java (multiple) inheritance
>
>

Which might be why both the current keepers of the Java language, and
the "father of the Java language" chose a divide and conquer approach
to the concept of multiple inheritance in the Java language.
"Multiple Inheritance of State, Implementation, and Type" vs
"Java does not support multiple inheritance"

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#32639

From	Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date	2015-09-22 16:49 -0400
Message-ID	<mtserk$etf$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32638

On 09/22/2015 04:47 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> On 09/22/2015 03:15 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> On 09/21/2015 09:47 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>
>> ...If I were to present a discourse on "Inheritance in Java"...
>>
>> After writing that I thought maybe discourse was the wrong word.
>> So I looked it up on Wikipedia and here is a short quote from that
>> article.
>>
>> «
>> Moreover, because discourses are bodies of text meant to communicate
>> specific data, information, and knowledge, there exist internal
>> relations within a given discourse, and external relations among
>> discourses, because a discourse does not exist in isolation (per se),
>> but in relation to other discourses, which are determined and
>> established by means of inter discourse and interdiscursivity. Hence,
>> within a field of intellectual enquiry, the practitioners occasionally
>> debate “What is” and “What is not” discourse, according to the
>> conceptual meanings (denotation and connotation) used in the given
>> field of study.
>> »
>>
>> Java (multiple) inheritance
>>
>>
>
> Which might be why both the current keepers of the Java language, and
> the "father of the Java language" chose a divide and conquer approach
> to the concept of multiple inheritance in the Java language.
> "Multiple Inheritance of State, Implementation, and Type" vs
> "Java does not support multiple inheritance"
>
>
It makes discourse much easier and pleasant.

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#32623

From	Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date	2015-09-22 11:02 +0000
Message-ID	<mtrcfs$flh$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32620

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:57:23 -0700, John wrote:

I think you missed the most important thing about interface declarations, 
though: they correspond most closely to a C header file containing 
prototypes. Interfaces don't really have anything to do with inheritance 
and don't allow you to define a constructor. 

Using an interface is just a promise that your class will implement the 
methods defined in it.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#32625

From	Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date	2015-09-22 08:47 -0400
Message-ID	<mtril2$i33$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32623

On 09/22/2015 07:02 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:57:23 -0700, John wrote:
>
> I think you missed the most important thing about interface declarations,
> though: they correspond most closely to a C header file containing
> prototypes. Interfaces don't really have anything to do with inheritance
> and don't allow you to define a constructor.
>
> Using an interface is just a promise that your class will implement the
> methods defined in it.
>
>
I suspect that teaching « A » programming language is very hard to get
right. I'll point to the super abundance of Java teaching material that
is available, and the variability of the quality of that material as
grounds for my suspicion. One reason for the difficulty might be that
a programming language doesn't live in a vacuum. Fitting your lessons
to a body of students will require evaluating prior knowledge and future
needs.

This thread descending from the original article posted by John has
morphed into a discussion of "Multiple inheritance in Java". If one
were to decide to teach a lesson on this topic he would do his
evaluations, and depending upon the outcome he might decide that the
statements you propose above perfectly fit the bill.

The links to the Oracle Java Tutorials to which I pointed above, and
to which John objected that I hadn't put into my own words, take another
tack. Scott, in his "Programming Language Pragmatics" takes yet another.
John, hopefully having done his evaluations, will produce a lesson and
present it to his students. In turn, his students will tell John if his
lesson satisfies their requirements and if they indicate need for
adjustments he will make those adjustments and present a "better" text
to his next batch of students.

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#32626

From	Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date	2015-09-22 09:14 -0400
Message-ID	<mtrk75$o8e$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#32625

On 09/22/2015 08:47 AM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
... In turn, his students will tell John if his
> lesson satisfies their requirements and if they indicate need for
> adjustments he will make those adjustments and present a "better" text
> to his next batch of students.

Just for kicks, google:
java+multiple+inheritance, and
java+appropriate+certificate.

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can you give me some hints on the Oracle Java SE related certificates?

Contents

#32604 — can you give me some hints on the Oracle Java SE related certificates?

#32607

#32608

#32609

#32612

#32610

#32611

#32613

#32615

#32617

#32618

#32620

#32621

#32622

#32637

#32638

#32639

#32623

#32625

#32626