Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #36363

Re: Type conversions with the empty string

Show all headers | View raw

On 2/20/2017 8:39 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 2/19/2017 11:31 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 2/19/2017 10:51 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 2/19/2017 9:20 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 2/19/2017 8:45 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>> On 2/19/2017 5:42 AM, lewbloch@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
>>>>>>> Anyway, that's not the point of a few posts upthread, where the
>>>>>>> point was about a scenario of someone messing with the JVM
>>>>>>> itself, to get their own java.lang.String dummy in, e.g. to troll
>>>>>>> some 3rd- party closed-source code.  People with that agenda are
>>>>>>> not likely to care about laws (might even be a case of
>>>>>>> DMCA-violation for those who live where it matters - so much for
>>>>>>> "What law?").
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, not being a lawyer, most countries respect the
>>>>>> trademark and copyright laws that protect the use of `java.lang`
>>>>>> and `javax.lang` packages.
>>>>
>>>>> You're correct.  You're not a lawyer.  There is nothing in either
>>>>> trademark or copyright law which prevents you from replacing
>>>>> something, as long as you don't use the original item.  They only
>>>>> limit what you can do with the trademarked or copyrighted item.
>>>>
>>>> If we assume Oracle Java (which Lew seems to have done explicitly),
>>>> the the logic is rather simple.
>>>>
>>>> The license states:
>>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> Oracle grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited license
>>>> without license fees to reproduce and use internally the Software
>>>> complete and unmodified for the sole purpose of running
>>>> Programs.</quote>
>>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> Unless enforcement is prohibited by applicable law, you may not modify,
>>>> decompile, or reverse engineer Software.
>>>> </quote>
>>>>
>>>> The license prohibits modifications of the software.
>>>
>>> Adding your own class to your own files is not modification of the
>>> software.
>>
>> Of course it is.
>
> Since when does another company control what classes I write for my own
> files?  The answer is - they don't.

But they just control how you can use their stuff.

>> We Oracle software which is a Java runtime environment consisting of:
>> * Oracle JVM
>> * Oracle java.lang.String class
>> * rest of Oracle rt.jar
>> * some other Oracle stuff
>>
>> We are discussing a new runtime environment with a different behavior
>> of the String class consisting of:
>> * Oracle JVM
>> * somebody elses java.lang.String class
>> * rest of Oracle rt.jar
>> * some other Oracle stuff
>>
>> That runtime environment is a modfied version of Oracle's Java
>> runtime environment.
>
> And where does it say adding your own class is a modified version of
> Oracle's runtime environment?  It doesn't - because you are not
> modifying their runtime environment.
>
> What if you called it arne.String?  Is that OK?  If so, then why not
> java.lang.String?  Neither Oracle nor anyone else can control what you
> call your classes.

There is no license problem creating a java.lang.String class.

But there is a problem creating a runtime environment with that
class combined with Oracle's stuff.

It becomes a runtime environment when something is created that
can execute an Java application intended for a standard Java
runtime environment.

Remember the context. Stefan is writing a Java application
using java.lang.String. The application is intended to run
in a standard Java runtime environment. He is concerned that
somebody else will setup a runtime environment with
a custom java.lang.String (and Oracle's stuff).

>>>> So:
>>>>
>>>> replacing java.lang.String => modified software => no Java license =>
>>>> usage of all the other Java classes is copyright violation
>>>>
>>>
>>> You have not modified any existing software.  You have replaced a class
>>> with your own.
>>
>> The JRE has been modified by replacing the String class.
>>
>> The license does not talk about modifications of pieces of code. It
>> talks about "the software" which is the entire JRE.
>
> Nope.  The class you add is in your own code, not the JRE.  The JRE has
> not been modified.

The class has been made part of the runtime environment the
Java application is executing in.

Arne

Back to comp.lang.java.programmer | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: Type conversions with the empty string Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2017-01-29 17:57 +0100
  Re: Type conversions with the empty string Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2017-01-30 07:39 +0100
    Re: Type conversions with the empty string Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2017-01-30 10:08 +0100
      Re: Type conversions with the empty string Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2017-02-07 09:26 +0100
        Re: Type conversions with the empty string Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-02-07 08:34 +0000
        Re: Type conversions with the empty string lewbloch@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 11:20 -0800
          Re: Type conversions with the empty string Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2017-02-13 08:40 +0100
            Re: Type conversions with the empty string Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-02-13 17:38 +0000
              Re: Type conversions with the empty string Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-02-13 17:48 +0000
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2017-02-16 10:53 +0100
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string lewbloch@gmail.com - 2017-02-19 02:42 -0800
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-19 08:45 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-19 09:20 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-19 09:21 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-19 10:51 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2017-02-19 19:55 +0100
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-19 15:55 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-19 23:31 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-20 08:39 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-02-20 06:10 -0800
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-20 09:54 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-20 10:25 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-20 11:02 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-02-20 08:45 -0800
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-20 14:46 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-02-20 12:23 -0800
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-20 16:31 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-20 11:58 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-20 14:46 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-20 15:45 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-20 15:54 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-20 20:31 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-19 09:13 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-02-19 14:43 +0000
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-19 10:11 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-02-19 15:20 +0000
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-19 10:53 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-19 23:24 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-20 08:43 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-20 10:16 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-20 11:03 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-20 12:00 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-20 14:49 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-20 15:47 -0500
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string lewbloch@gmail.com - 2017-02-20 22:18 -0800
                Re: Type conversions with the empty string Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-21 08:23 -0500
            Re: Type conversions with the empty string lewbloch@gmail.com - 2017-02-19 02:39 -0800
        Re: Type conversions with the empty string Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-02-13 12:46 -0500

csiph-web