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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #35776

Re: double == double

From Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: double == double
Date 2016-10-15 20:39 -0400
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <ntui8l$cvs$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <8737k0qd38.fsf@golem.phantasia.org> <87zim5es30.fsf@golem.phantasia.org> <ntta21$osp$1@dont-email.me> <nttemi$mt3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <nttfev$bgj$1@dont-email.me>

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On 10/15/2016 10:46 AM, Eric Sosman wrote:
> On 10/15/2016 10:32 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 10/15/2016 9:13 AM, Eric Sosman wrote:
>>>     The scare quotes around "argument" seem appropriate.  I attempted
>>> to explain the basis of the simplistic "Don't use ==" advice, hoping
>>> that an informed understanding would trump blind obedience to some
>>> mysterious rule.  (Perhaps I was overly optimistic.)
>>>
>>>     There are instances (admittedly not many) where floating-point ==
>>> is reliable, appropriate, and "safe when used as directed."  It seems
>>> to me that someone who can distinguish the safe from the unsafe cases
>>> will be a better programmer than someone who closes his mind and simply
>>> says "Never use ==, it's sometimes dangerous."
>>
>> But I would say that someone that even though a particular use of
>> double == is safe still consider alternatives that are less fragile
>> to break with future code modifications is a better software engineer
>> than those who reason that since they can see it is safe then all
>> future maintainers of the code will understand the issue and keep
>> it safe.
>
>     Allow me to pose a related question: Do you ever use > with
> floating-point values?  And do you ever use >= similarly?  Now:
> How do you choose between > and >=, and why?
>
>     I contend that someone who blindly obeys "Never use ==" will
> have no (rational) way to decide whether to use > as opposed to >=,
> since the only difference between them is the equality comparison
> he's pledged to avoid.

But there is one big difference between the problems.

== will frequently lead to problems.

 > or >= will in most proper cases be equally good for the same
reason that cause the problem with ==.

>     That is, I contend there's no substitute for understanding.
> My own understanding is imperfect -- the field called Numerical
> Analysis is large, intricate, and subtle -- but nonetheless I feel
> that dicta like "Never" are, er, "Always" out of place.  (Almost.)

I disagree.

The purpose of writing code is not to produce something aesthetically
beautiful.

The purpose of writing code is to solve some problem in an efficient
way. Usually efficient means fast initial development in easy
maintenance. There are cases where run time efficiency comes
into play, but that is sort of orthogonal to the topic being
discussed.

Doing extensive numerical analysis to determine if the usage of
== is correct and put in the necessary documentation/training
to ensure that the future maintenance programmers do not
mess it up will rarely be efficient.

Follow the rule of thumb and find an workaround that do not
require the == will usually be more efficient.

Arne


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Thread

Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-12 09:39 -0400
  Re: double == double Michael Jung <miju@golem.phantasia.org> - 2016-10-13 21:10 +0200
    Re: double == double Michael Jung <miju@golem.phantasia.org> - 2016-10-15 14:04 +0200
      Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-15 09:13 -0400
        Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-15 10:32 -0400
          Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-15 10:46 -0400
            Re: double == double Michael Jung <miju@golem.phantasia.org> - 2016-10-15 17:44 +0200
            Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-15 17:36 +0100
              Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-15 14:15 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-15 19:41 +0100
            Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-15 20:39 -0400
      Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-15 10:41 -0400
        Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-15 23:09 +0100
          Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-15 18:28 -0400
            Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 03:13 +0100
              Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-16 08:37 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 14:06 +0100
          Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-15 20:30 -0400
            Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 03:16 +0100
              Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 03:18 +0100
              Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-16 09:45 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 14:51 +0100
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-16 11:24 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 16:43 +0100
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-16 12:54 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 18:37 +0100
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-16 14:14 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 22:19 +0100
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-16 22:49 -0400
                Re: double == double a.laforgia@gmail.com - 2016-10-17 01:53 -0700
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-17 19:04 +0200
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-17 20:17 +0100
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-17 23:11 +0200
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-17 22:46 +0100
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-18 18:55 +0200
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-18 18:52 +0100
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-20 15:03 +0200
                True O-O [Was: double == double] Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-17 18:06 -0400
                Re: True O-O Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-18 18:32 +0200
                Re: True O-O [Was: double == double] Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-19 22:09 -0400
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-19 21:58 -0400
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-17 18:58 +0200
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-17 20:32 +0100
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-17 23:21 +0200
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-19 21:38 -0400
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-19 21:47 -0400
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-20 15:01 +0200

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