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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #35768

Re: double == double

From Michael Jung <miju@golem.phantasia.org>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: double == double
Date 2016-10-15 17:44 +0200
Organization albasani.net
Message-ID <87zim5sjli.fsf@golem.phantasia.org> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <8737k0qd38.fsf@golem.phantasia.org> <87zim5es30.fsf@golem.phantasia.org> <ntta21$osp$1@dont-email.me> <nttemi$mt3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <nttfev$bgj$1@dont-email.me>

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Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> writes:
> On 10/15/2016 10:32 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 10/15/2016 9:13 AM, Eric Sosman wrote:
>>>     The scare quotes around "argument" seem appropriate.  I attempted
>>> to explain the basis of the simplistic "Don't use ==" advice, hoping
>>> that an informed understanding would trump blind obedience to some
>>> mysterious rule.  (Perhaps I was overly optimistic.)

Those weren't scare quotes. Your explanation I also assume sufficient. I
was trying to find a rule-of-thumb that was "better" than the simple
"never use" clause but not too clumsy. It wasn't an argument at
all. Neither as argument nor as rule does this (unquoted) elaboration
apply to +0 and -0. I don't think Stefan fell for the usefulness of ==
with doubles but more possibly for the usefulness of +0 and -0. Anyway,
there's a scare quote up there now. :-)

[...]
>     Allow me to pose a related question: Do you ever use > with
> floating-point values?  And do you ever use >= similarly?  Now:
> How do you choose between > and >=, and why?
>     I contend that someone who blindly obeys "Never use ==" will
> have no (rational) way to decide whether to use > as opposed to >=,
> since the only difference between them is the equality comparison
> he's pledged to avoid.

">" = !"<=" and "<" = !">=". It turns out to be a matter of taste or
clarity in a situation, which to use. Equality doesn't really come into
it. I think, going for a rule-of-thumb on "==" is aiming too short. The
better rule-of-thumb is "to shy away from 0 with doubles and
calculations".

>     That is, I contend there's no substitute for understanding.
> My own understanding is imperfect -- the field called Numerical
> Analysis is large, intricate, and subtle -- but nonetheless I feel
> that dicta like "Never" are, er, "Always" out of place.  (Almost.)

Of course. An example for using "==" on zero with doubles _and
calculations_ (foiling my own "dicta") is

double a = 1;
int b = 1;
while (!(a == 0)) {
  b++;
  a = a/2;
}
System.out.println("b=" + b);

With a large enough numeric hammer you can possibly forge a useful
example out of it.

Michael

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Thread

Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-12 09:39 -0400
  Re: double == double Michael Jung <miju@golem.phantasia.org> - 2016-10-13 21:10 +0200
    Re: double == double Michael Jung <miju@golem.phantasia.org> - 2016-10-15 14:04 +0200
      Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-15 09:13 -0400
        Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-15 10:32 -0400
          Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-15 10:46 -0400
            Re: double == double Michael Jung <miju@golem.phantasia.org> - 2016-10-15 17:44 +0200
            Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-15 17:36 +0100
              Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-15 14:15 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-15 19:41 +0100
            Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-15 20:39 -0400
      Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-15 10:41 -0400
        Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-15 23:09 +0100
          Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-15 18:28 -0400
            Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 03:13 +0100
              Re: double == double Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-16 08:37 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 14:06 +0100
          Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-15 20:30 -0400
            Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 03:16 +0100
              Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 03:18 +0100
              Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-16 09:45 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 14:51 +0100
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-16 11:24 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 16:43 +0100
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-16 12:54 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 18:37 +0100
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-16 14:14 -0400
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-16 22:19 +0100
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-16 22:49 -0400
                Re: double == double a.laforgia@gmail.com - 2016-10-17 01:53 -0700
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-17 19:04 +0200
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-17 20:17 +0100
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-17 23:11 +0200
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-17 22:46 +0100
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-18 18:55 +0200
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-18 18:52 +0100
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-20 15:03 +0200
                True O-O [Was: double == double] Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-10-17 18:06 -0400
                Re: True O-O Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-18 18:32 +0200
                Re: True O-O [Was: double == double] Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-19 22:09 -0400
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-19 21:58 -0400
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-17 18:58 +0200
                Re: double == double 4ndre4 <626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920@626401fd-4bc7-4f8f-b641-563ae0f72920.invalid> - 2016-10-17 20:32 +0100
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-17 23:21 +0200
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-19 21:38 -0400
                Re: double == double Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-10-19 21:47 -0400
                Re: double == double Patrick Roemer <sangamon@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-20 15:01 +0200

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