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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #33097
| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.java.programmer |
| Subject | Re: Java primitive variable objects |
| Date | 2015-11-10 23:07 -0500 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <n1uepe$d64$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <n1re9r$rik$1@speranza.aioe.org> <n1rh0d$gf7$1@dont-email.me> <n1uaoi$t7i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <n1ubv0$4tg$1@dont-email.me> <n1uden$1hk$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
On 11/10/2015 10:42 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > On 11/10/2015 10:19 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >> On 11/10/2015 9:56 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> On 11/9/2015 8:26 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>> On 11/9/2015 7:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>> On 11/9/2015 7:52 AM, Eric Douglas wrote: >>>>>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:21:54 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> In the 90's you should have been taught Pascal and/or C++ (which >>>>>>> both has enums) if the school had been following trends. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've never heard of either of those being used for business >>>>>> applications. >>>>>> I went to college from 1993 to 1996. Most companies were using >>>>>> COBOL. >>>>>> I did have one intro to C++ course. >>>>> >>>>> Universities are supposed to teach students something that will help >>>>> them through a career of 40-45 years. >>>> >>>> That's hard to do in any of the sciences today. The world is changing >>>> too quickly. >>> >>> Yes and no. >>> >>> Specific stuff is changing very rapidly. >>> >>> Basic concepts does not change. >> >> Incorrect. For instance, OO and relational databases did not exist when >> I was in college. Basic concepts DO change. > > No. > > New basic concepts get added. > > The old ones are still relevant. > The old ones are still relevant - but new ones are developed. The basic concepts *DO CHANGE*. >>> Which is exactly my point - universities should teach the basic >>> concepts not the specific stuff that are obsolete next year. >>> >>>>> At that time I think it both made sense and was common to use >>>>> Pascal or C++. >>>>> >>>> >>>> PASCAL has never been big in business. C++ is to some extent, but >>>> still >>>> not as popular as C. >>> >>> Yes. >>> >>> But again - it is not the universities job to teach the languages >>> that the industry need this year or this decade - it is their job >>> to teach stuff that will remain useful. >>> >>> Pascal and C++ was good languages for that at the time. >>> >>> Today Java and Python would be more suited. >> >> Neither Java nor Python score in the top programming languages wanted >> today. > > Java is the most used programming language today. > >> Java was more popular 20 years ago, > > Java was not officially released 20 years ago! > Actually, it was - the first alpha and beta releases were in 1995. The first stable release was January, 1996 - 20 years less two months ago. Close enough. >>>>> C and C++ was already making serious inroads into business. And >>>>> everybody knew that OO would be the big thing - it was just >>>>> not clear what languages it would be besides C++. >>>> >>>> Not in the financial sector, it isn't - which includes banks, insurance >>>> companies, governments, and many, many more. It still can't beat >>>> COBOL's packed decimal datatype for numeric operations. And OO is good >>>> for a lot of things, but it's definitely not the answer to everything >>>> programming. >>> >>> Sorry to burst your bubble, but try look at what banks are actual >>> looking for. >>> >>> JP Morgan: >>> >>> 825 jobs requiring Java >>> 22 jobs requiring COBOL >>> >>> Bank of America: >>> >>> 99 jobs requiring Java >>> 9 jobs requiring COBOL >>> >>> Citigroup: >>> >>> 577 jobs requiring Java >>> 14 jobs requiring COBOL >>> >>> Banks seems to be doing fine with OO and Java >>> >>> (I will assume that they typical use BigDecimal for money) > >> Again, you think job listings on dice.com are an indication. > > Not dice.com - the banks own web site. > Again, you confuse job listings with current employment. Bad data is worse than none at all. How about real figures - like the number of LOC each one generates in each language each year? >> They are >> not. For instance - I used to have Bank of America as one of my >> clients. COBOL is very heavily used by them, and they have far more >> COBOL programmers than anyone else. > > That is just another anecdotal story. > Of course it is - because it conflicts with your fantasies. > (and from a guy that claim Java was more popular before it got > release than now) > As I said above. >> The difference is - COBOL programmers at banks get good pay, good >> benefits, and good retirement. There is very little turnover of COBOL >> programmers at large companies. > > Nice hypothesis. > > But not likely to be true. > Your proof? > If we look at the entire job market not just banks then the facts > tell a very different story. > > Indeed.com tracks salary levels: > > Java - 102 K$ average > Cobol - 78 K$ average > > So does itjobwatch in the UK: > > Java - 52.5 K£ average > COBOL - 45 K£ average > >> Your "evidence" more shows what isn't in much demand because the jobs >> are short-term and unstable. > > There is no evidence to support that. > > But even if it were true, then it would not matter. No need to > train for well paid jobs that never become available. > > Arne > And how many of those jobs are long term? What benefits do they have? and what is the basis for their figures - job listings at dice.com? Mine comes from personal experience working with large companies and their programmers for almost 40 years. Sorry, Arne, once again you've shown your ignorance of the real world. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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Java primitive variable objects Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 10:11 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-02 14:15 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 13:03 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-02 16:29 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2015-11-02 22:46 +0100
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2015-11-02 22:52 +0100
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-02 17:47 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2015-11-05 22:19 +0100
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-05 13:31 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-07 22:21 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 04:52 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 08:54 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 07:27 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 10:51 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 08:28 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 11:57 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 10:13 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-09 13:28 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 14:53 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-11-10 09:27 +0000
Re: Java primitive variable objects "Jeffrey H. Coffield" <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> - 2015-11-09 10:44 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-09 18:59 +0000
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 15:02 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-09 22:57 +0000
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 19:16 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-09 20:55 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 22:13 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-09 20:40 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 22:23 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-09 14:00 +0000
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 07:18 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-09 20:43 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-09 19:38 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 20:26 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-10 02:10 +0000
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 22:12 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-10 13:01 +0000
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-10 12:23 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 10:10 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-10 22:08 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-10 20:05 +0000
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 13:21 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-10 23:30 +0000
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-10 20:58 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-10 22:30 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-10 21:58 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-10 21:56 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-10 22:19 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-10 22:42 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-10 23:07 -0500
Re: Java primitive variable objects Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 06:06 -0800
Re: Java primitive variable objects Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 14:47 -0800
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