Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #29256

Re: Java blunders

From Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: Java blunders
Date 2014-07-23 22:41 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <lqpv9p$llh$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <jvbts91r2f9onj1e3dbr5lvqp70hmofkum@4ax.com> <a4b9a521-1f38-4fc0-b131-fda06e47af68@googlegroups.com>

Show all headers | View raw

On 7/23/2014 1:26 PM, taqmcg@gmail.com wrote:
> - The vast mess that is Java IO and NIO with a myriad of classes that
> do almost the same thing.  Streams and Readers and Channels and
> RandomAccessFile off on its own, and Buffers and Formatters and
> Charsets and Selectors and ....   My suspicion is the the underlying
> problem here is that we've decided that I/O somehow is read out of
> the language itself -- it's an add-on library.  Doing I/O is critical
> to essentially all programs but thinking that some syntax beyond
> method calls might be useful in making what how program does I/O
> clear is beyond the pale.  I suspect that the desire to support
> printf-like calls was one of the big drivers for variable length
> argument lists but that's not even scratching the surface.

Since you mentioned I/O in particular, I'll bring this up:

I/O is *hard.* If you have any pretense of supporting non-ASCII, you 
*need* to worry about charsets and not sweep them under the rug (notice 
how many NNTP clients appear to mangle the character in my From 
header--and this is a situation where the format literally shoves the 
charset information in your face. Java's blunder was that it attempted 
to hide the details and put both text and binary handling on streams 
instead of having separate Reader/Writer implementations beyond the past.

The other problem is synchronous via asynchronous streams, or support 
for select-like constructs. This is the sort of thing that is impossible 
to retrofit onto existing libraries without potentially breaking a lot 
of applications. It's also the sort of thing for which, looking at 
several other languages and libraries, there is no universally-accepted 
paradigm. Yes, it's a mess; yes, Java did it wrong. Then again, so did 
everybody else, so I can't fault Java for that.

java.util.Date on the other hand... WHY IS JANUARY ASSIGNED A NUMERICAL 
VALUE OF 0? DO YOU NOT HAVE AN OUNCE OF GREY MATTER IN YOUR SKULL? [Yes. 
I know the rational. But when strftime's %MM value outputs 1 for 
January, it's hard to argue that January doesn't have an intrinsic 
numerical value worth more than 0-based indexing].

-- 
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth

Back to comp.lang.java.programmer | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-22 11:41 -0700
  Re: Java blunders Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte.net> - 2014-07-22 21:12 +0200
    Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-22 19:46 -0400
      Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 04:14 -0700
  Re: Java blunders Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-22 23:47 +0200
    Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 04:23 -0700
      Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-23 12:32 +0000
        Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-23 08:55 -0400
          Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 06:21 -0700
        Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-23 19:53 -0400
          Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 18:49 -0700
      Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-23 19:52 -0400
  Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-22 19:44 -0400
    Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 04:27 -0700
      Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-23 19:55 -0400
        Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 18:53 -0700
          Re: Java blunders Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-24 11:24 +0200
            Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-25 06:34 -0700
          Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-24 19:31 -0400
            Re: Java blunders Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-07-25 13:22 -0700
              Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-25 17:17 -0400
                Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-25 23:12 +0000
                Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-26 09:06 -0700
                Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-26 20:11 +0000
                Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-26 17:27 -0400
                Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-27 10:49 -0700
                Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-27 10:10 -0700
                Re: Java blunders Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-07-28 13:53 -0700
                Re: Java blunders Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2014-07-30 08:05 +0200
                Re: Java blunders Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2014-07-30 11:12 +0200
                Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-27 10:13 -0700
                Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-27 18:28 +0000
                Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-27 14:46 -0400
                Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-27 21:18 +0000
                Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-27 18:10 -0400
                Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-28 01:25 +0000
                Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-28 08:02 -0400
                Re: Java blunders Mike Amling <mamling@chaff.us> - 2014-07-31 13:26 -0500
                Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-31 14:48 -0400
                Re: Java blunders "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-07-28 13:22 +0100
                Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-28 12:52 +0000
                Re: Java blunders Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-28 23:38 +0200
                Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-28 23:17 +0000
                Re: Java blunders Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-29 13:34 +0200
                Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-29 12:45 +0000
                Re: Java blunders Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-29 17:10 +0200
                Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-29 16:29 +0000
                Re: Java blunders lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-07-29 20:15 +0100
                Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-29 22:02 +0000
                Re: Java blunders Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-29 22:43 +0200
                Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-29 22:10 +0000
                Re: Java blunders Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-27 19:18 -0500
                Re: Java blunders Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-07-28 13:54 -0700
                Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-31 23:07 -0400
                Re: Java blunders James Hostick <james.hostick@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 22:10 -0700
            Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-26 08:31 -0700
              Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-26 21:04 +0000
                Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-27 10:51 -0700
                Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-28 08:50 -0700
                Re: Java blunders Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-28 23:42 +0200
              Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-31 23:04 -0400
          Re: Java blunders Josip Almasi <joe@vrspace.org> - 2014-07-28 22:23 +0200
            Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-28 16:39 -0400
              Re: Java blunders Josip Almasi <joe@vrspace.org> - 2014-07-29 00:11 +0200
              Re: Java blunders Jukka Lahtinen <jtfjdehf@hotmail.com.invalid> - 2014-07-30 12:07 +0300
                Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-30 08:05 -0400
    Re: Java blunders Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2014-07-25 01:34 +0200
      Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-24 19:43 -0400
  Re: Java blunders Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-22 21:02 -0500
    Re: Java blunders Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreskog.lan> - 2014-07-23 02:01 -0500
      Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 18:58 -0700
      Re: Java blunders thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 03:55 +0000
        Re: Java blunders Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreskog.lan> - 2014-07-25 00:32 -0500
          Re: Java blunders thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-26 07:28 +0000
            Re: Java blunders "Gavino" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-26 19:43 +0200
        Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-25 06:36 -0700
          Re: Java blunders "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-07-25 15:47 +0100
            Re: Java blunders David Postill <david.postill@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 18:29 +0200
            Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-26 09:27 -0700
        Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-25 06:37 -0700
    Re: Java blunders Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-23 13:17 +0200
      Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 06:27 -0700
    Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 04:44 -0700
      Re: Java blunders Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-23 16:23 +0200
        Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-23 12:02 -0400
          Re: Java blunders Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-24 11:37 +0200
            Re: Java blunders Josip Almasi <joe@vrspace.org> - 2014-07-28 22:37 +0200
        Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 09:33 -0700
          Re: Java blunders thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 03:57 +0000
        Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-23 21:38 -0400
          Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 18:59 -0700
            Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-24 07:33 +0000
          Re: Java blunders Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-24 11:47 +0200
            Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-24 19:34 -0400
              Re: Java blunders Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-25 08:48 +0200
                Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-25 08:07 -0400
                Re: Java blunders "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-07-25 13:54 +0100
                Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-31 22:53 -0400
            Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-25 07:04 -0700
        Re: Java blunders Josip Almasi <joe@vrspace.org> - 2014-07-28 22:01 +0200
      Re: Java blunders Josip Almasi <joe@vrspace.org> - 2014-07-28 21:56 +0200
    Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 06:28 -0700
      Re: Java blunders Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-23 08:33 -0500
    Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-23 21:34 -0400
      Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-23 19:06 -0700
      Re: Java blunders Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-23 22:11 -0500
        Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-24 07:36 +0000
          Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-24 19:39 -0400
            Re: Java blunders "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-07-25 13:40 +0100
        Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-24 19:38 -0400
          Re: Java blunders Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-07-25 13:30 -0700
  Re: Java blunders taqmcg@gmail.com - 2014-07-23 11:26 -0700
    Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-23 15:14 -0400
      Re: Java blunders thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 04:07 +0000
        Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-25 08:35 -0400
          Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-26 09:41 -0700
        Re: Java blunders Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-03 16:41 +0200
          Re: Java blunders Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-08-03 11:31 -0400
    Re: Java blunders Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-23 22:41 -0500
      Re: Java blunders taqmcg@gmail.com - 2014-07-24 10:09 -0700
        Re: Java blunders "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-07-25 13:22 +0100
        Re: Java blunders Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-25 20:34 -0500
          Re: Java blunders "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-07-28 13:33 +0100
            Re: Java blunders Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-28 08:35 -0500
        Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-26 09:44 -0700
          Re: Java blunders Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-07-26 23:36 +0000
  Re: Java blunders Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-07-23 20:48 -0700
    Re: Java blunders Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-24 11:56 +0200
      Re: Java blunders Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-24 16:07 +0200
        Re: Java blunders Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-07-25 13:38 -0700
          Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-26 10:02 -0700
    Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-24 19:29 -0400
      Re: Java blunders Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-07-25 13:45 -0700
    Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-26 10:53 -0700
  Re: Java blunders Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2014-07-25 01:28 +0200
  Re: Java blunders "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-07-25 14:16 +0100
  Re: Java blunders Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-25 17:39 +0200
  Re: Java blunders Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-26 16:21 -0700
  Re: Java blunders Josip Almasi <joe@vrspace.org> - 2014-07-28 23:59 +0200
    Re: Java blunders Josip Almasi <joe@vrspace.org> - 2014-07-29 00:41 +0200
      Re: Java blunders Josip Almasi <joe@vrspace.org> - 2014-07-29 01:54 +0200
    Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-31 22:38 -0400
    Re: Java blunders Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-31 22:39 -0400
  Re: Java blunders w.tom.adams@gmail.com - 2014-07-30 07:57 -0700
    Re: Java blunders Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-30 10:22 -0500

csiph-web