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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #29282 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-04-04 10:26 -0700 |
| Last post | 2014-12-02 04:54 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 432 — 42 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth
Epic Fail Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-04 10:26 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-04 12:42 -0500
Re: Epic Fail forthisit@gmail.com - 2014-04-04 11:09 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-04 22:09 +0100
Re: Epic Fail "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-04 21:44 -1000
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-05 09:42 -0700
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-05 10:47 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-05 15:25 -0400
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-07 17:29 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2014-04-07 12:35 -0700
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-08 15:54 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-08 12:43 -0500
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-09 16:16 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-09 13:00 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-09 21:08 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-09 15:17 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-10 00:17 +0200
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-09 22:42 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2014-04-10 00:06 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-10 16:00 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-10 22:35 +0200
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-10 17:51 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2014-04-10 21:44 -0700
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-11 23:10 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-12 06:18 -0400
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-12 06:23 -0400
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-12 10:52 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2014-04-12 20:14 +0200
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-12 19:21 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-13 12:25 -0500
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-13 20:33 -0400
Re: Epic Fail stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-04-12 16:12 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-12 09:48 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2014-04-12 10:23 -0700
Re: Epic Fail stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-04-12 19:51 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-12 13:00 -0700
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-12 10:29 -0700
Re: Epic Fail stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-04-12 19:56 +0000
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-13 00:25 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-13 10:50 +0100
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-13 16:53 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2014-04-14 02:32 +0200
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-13 17:59 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-14 02:00 +0100
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-13 18:30 -0700
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-13 14:21 +0000
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-13 21:12 -0700
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-23 12:49 +0000
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-28 21:02 -0700
Automatic scoping of locals (was: Epic Fail) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-29 14:49 +0000
Re: Automatic scoping of locals (was: Epic Fail) hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-05-02 22:28 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-10 03:04 -0500
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-11 17:23 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-11 21:42 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Spam@ControlQ.com - 2014-04-11 16:13 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-11 22:15 +0200
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-13 16:10 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-13 18:42 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-13 23:44 +0200
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-13 20:33 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-14 04:05 -0500
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-14 09:57 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-14 11:56 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-14 14:53 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-14 07:26 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-14 21:21 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-15 04:07 -0500
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-14 09:55 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-04-14 22:04 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-15 04:10 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-04-15 02:40 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-15 06:41 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-04-15 06:20 -0700
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-15 12:21 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-04-15 06:30 -0700
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-15 20:04 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-04-15 23:50 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-15 21:31 -1000
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-16 05:55 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-16 14:50 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-04-16 06:06 -0700
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-19 17:44 -0700
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-20 11:35 -0700
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-16 00:19 -0700
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-16 05:29 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-16 22:45 -0400
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-14 09:49 +0000
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-23 13:07 +0000
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-23 20:16 -0400
Re: Epic Fail "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-23 14:41 -1000
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-24 17:10 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Spam@ControlQ.com - 2014-04-24 15:14 -0400
@ and optimization (was: Epic Fail) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-25 08:40 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-25 06:13 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-25 15:26 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-25 09:03 -0700
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-25 17:45 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-25 11:15 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-25 17:22 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-26 04:38 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-26 11:38 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-26 14:35 +0200
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-26 09:59 -0500
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-26 10:14 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-26 15:30 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-26 12:05 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-26 17:27 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-26 12:39 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-26 18:07 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-27 03:24 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-27 13:00 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-27 11:18 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-28 15:12 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-29 03:52 -0500
Re: @ and optimization Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-29 03:09 -0700
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-29 09:24 -0500
Re: @ and optimization "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-29 08:36 -1000
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-30 10:18 +0000
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-29 14:38 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-29 10:21 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-29 15:41 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-29 12:26 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-30 10:44 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-30 09:18 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-30 17:48 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-01 03:55 -0500
Re: @ and optimization Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-01 14:21 +0200
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-01 10:11 -0500
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-01 14:20 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-01 12:38 -0500
Re: @ and optimization Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-29 20:17 +0200
Re: @ and optimization stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-04-29 19:21 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-29 23:20 +0200
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-30 03:02 -0500
Re: @ and optimization Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-26 20:55 +0200
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-27 03:28 -0500
Re: @ and optimization albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-27 13:31 +0000
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-28 15:27 +0000
Re: @ and optimization albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-27 13:23 +0000
Re: @ and optimization hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-28 21:32 -0700
Re: @ and optimization "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-26 08:50 -0400
Re: @ and optimization "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-26 22:52 +0100
Re: @ and optimization "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-26 20:33 -0400
Re: @ and optimization "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-27 11:53 +0100
Re: @ and optimization "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-28 01:05 -0400
Re: @ and optimization Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-25 21:34 +0100
Re: @ and optimization Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-25 13:37 -0700
Re: @ and optimization Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-25 22:03 +0100
Re: @ and optimization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-26 15:38 +0000
Re: @ and optimization Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-26 17:24 +0100
Re: @ and optimization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-26 04:48 -0500
Re: @ and optimization Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-26 11:09 +0100
Re: @ and optimization (was: Epic Fail) hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-28 21:24 -0700
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-24 19:17 +0000
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-25 08:27 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-25 23:44 +0200
Re: Epic Fail stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-04-26 14:37 +0000
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-13 15:04 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-26 09:58 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-26 10:16 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-26 05:06 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-26 11:16 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-26 03:43 -0700
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-26 14:24 +0000
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-26 23:58 -0400
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-27 12:46 +0000
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-28 00:41 -0400
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-28 21:54 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-26 17:17 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-26 10:08 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-26 13:44 +0200
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-26 09:11 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-26 10:12 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-26 17:00 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-26 12:08 -0500
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-26 23:41 -0400
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-26 17:06 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-26 12:45 -0500
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-26 17:52 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-26 21:52 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-27 03:31 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-27 13:48 +0200
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-27 12:02 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-26 22:19 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-14 10:28 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-14 22:02 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-14 18:57 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-15 05:05 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-14 22:53 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-13 12:34 -0500
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-14 13:22 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-14 10:08 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Spam@ControlQ.com - 2014-04-14 11:59 -0400
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-17 16:56 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Spam@ControlQ.com - 2014-04-17 15:16 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-17 23:59 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-18 04:38 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-18 09:17 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-18 11:44 -0500
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-18 17:06 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-18 11:41 -0500
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-18 16:55 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-18 19:20 +0200
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-20 14:52 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-18 12:21 -0500
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-20 14:36 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-20 08:17 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-20 11:35 -0500
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-21 10:51 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-21 19:54 +0200
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-22 17:40 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-22 20:47 +0200
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-19 11:34 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-19 16:05 -0500
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-20 12:38 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-20 11:42 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-20 12:11 -0500
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-20 17:23 +0000
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-20 11:58 -0700
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-21 10:21 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-22 04:58 -0500
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-22 17:05 +0000
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-20 17:12 +0000
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-20 19:47 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-22 05:03 -0500
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-22 11:51 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-22 08:28 -0500
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-22 15:02 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-22 13:23 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2014-04-22 19:19 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Todd Hughes <noemail@dontemailme.org> - 2014-04-10 11:24 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-10 06:55 -0500
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-10 15:50 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-10 11:02 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-10 22:31 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-11 03:55 -0500
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-10 19:08 -0400
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-10 19:03 -0400
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-11 17:45 +0100
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-11 17:16 +0000
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-11 18:59 +0100
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-11 19:11 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-11 12:05 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-11 22:03 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-11 20:18 +0200
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-11 21:44 -0400
Re: Epic Fail visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-04-11 14:00 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2014-04-12 01:04 -0700
Re: Epic Fail the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-11-30 01:47 -0800
Re: Epic Fail the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 16:12 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-04 23:20 +0200
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-07 17:40 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-08 00:52 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2014-04-07 16:13 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 06:37 +0300
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-09 01:12 +0200
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-08 10:16 +0000
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-04 17:41 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-05 02:49 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-04-04 17:46 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-04 21:59 -1000
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-05 08:51 +0000
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-05 14:45 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-05 16:01 -0700
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-05 19:22 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-06 10:46 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-06 13:20 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-06 19:58 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-06 12:28 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-06 16:40 -0400
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-06 22:04 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-06 23:25 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-06 23:48 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-06 15:17 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-07 00:08 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-06 15:34 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-07 00:29 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-06 16:01 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-07 00:58 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-06 16:29 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-07 01:33 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-07 01:58 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-06 19:33 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-07 04:40 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-07 04:25 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-06 20:19 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-07 11:23 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-07 03:24 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-07 11:18 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-07 05:20 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-07 14:49 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-07 08:43 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-07 20:27 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-07 02:57 -0500
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-07 10:00 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-07 16:10 +0200
Re: Epic Fail m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-04-07 07:54 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-07 22:59 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-07 15:07 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-07 15:13 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-08 00:40 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-07 01:02 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-08 10:49 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-08 19:01 +0100
Re: Epic Fail "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-08 08:13 -1000
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-08 20:34 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-08 12:04 -0700
[OT] Haskell code Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-09 00:42 +0200
Re: [OT] Haskell code Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-08 18:14 -0700
Re: [OT] Haskell code Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-08 18:15 -0700
Re: [OT] Haskell code Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-09 03:10 +0200
Re: [OT] Haskell code Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-08 18:35 -0700
Re: [OT] Haskell code Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-09 03:17 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-06 16:48 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-06 15:30 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-04-07 11:26 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-07 05:21 -0500
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-07 17:54 +0100
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-07 12:14 -0500
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-07 16:49 +0000
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-07 09:37 +0000
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-06 08:43 -0700
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-07 12:53 +0000
Re: Epic Fail mhx@iae.nl - 2014-04-06 00:09 -0700
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-06 13:12 +0000
Re: Epic Fail mhx@iae.nl - 2014-04-06 07:55 -0700
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-07 10:18 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-06 08:21 -0700
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-06 08:30 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-06 22:12 +0200
Re: Epic Fail "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-06 12:08 -1000
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-06 16:44 -0700
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-06 22:03 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2014-04-07 01:29 -0700
locals in nested definitions (was: Epic Fail) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-07 16:57 +0000
Re: Epic Fail mhx@iae.nl - 2014-04-07 11:48 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-07 22:54 +0200
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-08 00:04 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-07 14:12 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-07 21:23 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-07 19:33 -1000
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-07 23:52 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-08 09:07 +0100
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-08 12:35 +0100
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-08 16:21 +0000
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-08 16:33 -0400
Re: Epic Fail "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-08 23:41 +0100
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-08 22:47 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-08 10:43 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-08 07:22 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-08 10:12 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-08 08:58 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-08 08:02 -1000
Re: Epic Fail hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-08 23:07 -0700
Re: Epic Fail albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-08 10:21 +0000
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-08 15:32 +0200
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-08 17:46 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-09 01:06 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-08 18:06 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-09 02:56 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-08 18:17 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-09 03:24 +0200
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-09 02:22 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 17:07 +0300
Re: Epic Fail the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 03:48 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2014-04-07 07:17 +0300
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-07 22:52 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-07 03:53 -0700
Re: Epic Fail the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 16:24 -0700
Re: Epic Fail the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 16:45 -0700
Re: Epic Fail kerdezixe@gmail.com - 2014-04-29 11:15 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-04-29 11:21 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-29 20:46 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-04-29 12:27 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-29 23:13 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-04-30 00:04 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-30 00:54 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-30 23:30 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-04-30 16:48 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-01 03:33 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-01 04:04 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-04-30 16:53 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-01 03:56 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-30 03:08 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-04-30 02:30 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-30 06:45 -0500
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-30 22:02 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-01 04:04 -0500
Re: Epic Fail "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-01 16:08 -0400
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-02 08:12 -0500
Re: Epic Fail Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-02 22:33 +0200
Re: Epic Fail Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 15:19 -0700
Re: Epic Fail Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-03 04:30 -0500
Re: Epic Fail anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-30 09:53 +0000
Forth on JVM (was: Epic Fail) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-30 09:24 +0000
Re: Forth on JVM (was: Epic Fail) jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2014-04-30 17:14 -0700
Re: Forth on JVM (was: Epic Fail) jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2014-04-30 17:27 -0700
Re: Forth on JVM (was: Epic Fail) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-01 15:25 +0000
Re: Forth on JVM (was: Epic Fail) "Peter Knaggs" <pjk@bcs.org.uk> - 2014-05-03 08:28 +0100
Re: Forth on JVM (was: Epic Fail) "Peter Knaggs" <pjk@bcs.org.uk> - 2014-05-01 07:52 +0100
Re: Forth on JVM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-01 04:06 -0500
Re: Forth on JVM Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2014-05-01 14:28 +0200
Re: Epic Fail AKK <akk@nospam.org> - 2014-04-29 20:48 +0200
Re: Epic Fail stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-04-29 19:09 +0000
Re: Epic Fail "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-29 09:23 -1000
Re: Epic Fail Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-04-29 12:43 -0700
Re: Epic Fail "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-29 11:23 -1000
Re: Epic Fail Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-04-29 22:52 -0700
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2014-11-29 20:13 +0000
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) C G Montgomery <cgm@physics.utoledo.edu> - 2014-11-29 17:15 -0500
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2014-11-29 14:20 -0800
Re: Epic failure awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2014-11-29 23:35 +0100
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-11-30 00:31 +0100
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2014-11-29 17:41 -0800
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) mhx@iae.nl - 2014-11-30 00:04 -0800
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) mhx@iae.nl - 2014-11-30 00:09 -0800
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-11-30 17:22 +0100
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2014-11-30 02:13 +0000
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2014-11-29 18:55 -0800
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-11-30 16:50 +0000
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-12-01 01:22 +0100
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-12-02 06:00 +0100
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-12-02 06:37 +0100
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-12-02 12:28 +0000
Re: Epic failure Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-12-02 18:03 -0800
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-12-05 10:10 -0800
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-12-05 16:23 -0500
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-05 13:46 -0800
Re: Epic failure (was Epic Fail) "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-01 07:54 +0000
Re: Epic failure awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2014-12-01 14:02 +0100
Re: Epic failure hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2014-12-01 15:04 -0800
Re: Epic failure awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2014-12-02 04:54 +0100
Page 18 of 22 — ← Prev page 1 … 16 17 [18] 19 20 … 22 Next page →
| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-07 19:33 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <tamdnQ6jqquAF97OnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #29416 |
On 4/7/14 6:23 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes: ... > >> The way to program Forth is to build the abstractions you need yourself. >> Different people have different needs > > Yes, that's the whole point, other languages have taken the experience > of past decades on board, that certain abstractions like arrays and > dictionaries are useful enough that it's worth supplying them pre-built. > Then they become part of the language background rather than the > program, eliminating some layers of abstraction from the program. I think it's more that in Forth it's so easy to build data structures that are exactly right for the particular application at hand that worrying about what pre-built structures you have and how to use them is just not worth the bother. >>>> The biggest Forth program, CCS, is a million lines of code.... >> They are very competitive and have no problem to stay in business. >> It's not a big company. If i would be way more difficult than what >> the competition does, they would certainly be out of business by now. > > I don't know what competition in that industry involves. Those types of > programs tend to not evolve very fast: I've done some work with payment > and POS terminals recently and it was like stepping back to the 1980's. > Competition may be mostly about landing deals and supporting customers > rather than advancing technology. The restaurant business is also > highly competitive, and one area of competition is developing new > recipes and dishes, but not THAT much of their effort goes into that > area. It's more about doing a good job with the existing recipes and > keeping the venue attractive and the service level high. Maybe it's > similar with the CCS company and its software base. Stephen and I both did a lot of work with payment terminals in the 90's. Programming them then was at least 1980s, maybe 1970's, but the industry was fiercely resistant to change, as they regarded the arcaneness of their tools as their hedge against competition. >> Quite often, run-of-the-mill managers are scared by people who do >> their stuff in Forth, and then try to replace their work with >> run-of-the-mill people and tools. The typical outcome is a complete >> failure - many software projects are failures, anyways > > I wonder if the failure rate for Forth projects is any different. I think most project failures are due to poor design and project management. In my experience, it is easier to compensate for poor design decisions in Forth because of its greater flexibility. I do remember hearing about one famous Forth project failure from folks who were involved. It seems to have involved poor design and project management, in addition to lack of application domain experience on the part of the programmers (who were hired because they "knew Forth" instead of knowing anything about that kind of project, and then not presented with much design guidance from anyone who *did* know the application domain). > There's an old Yosefk post that may explain some of what goes on with > Forth: > > http://www.yosefk.com/blog/low-level-is-easy.html > > It says (among other things) low level approaches can be more tedious, > but have fewer dependencies and are more robust against going wrong > because somebody else's stuff broke, and tends to be more solid because > everyone else's stuff will break if the low level stuff fails. Well, the article rambles on far more than it needs to, but his point is well taken. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | hughaguilar96@yahoo.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-07 23:52 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <c5e65e50-4710-494e-a9cc-cc3e57b5dc96@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #29419 |
On Monday, April 7, 2014 10:33:16 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > I think it's more that in Forth it's so easy to build data structures > that are exactly right for the particular application at hand that > worrying about what pre-built structures you have and how to use them is > just not worth the bother. Elizabeth Rather is the #1 cause of Forth's "epic fail" --- primarily because of her ongoing effort to prevent general-purpose Forth software from being written. This idea of building data-structures from scratch for every application is stupid. This only works for ultra-simple data-structures such as linked-lists. This is a terrible idea for more complicated data-structures such as self-balancing trees. In my novice package I provide an LLRB tree (association.4th) --- Elizabeth Rather has never provided such a thing, and never will --- she is incapable of doing so. Anybody who follows Elizabeth Rather's advice will be forever limited to writing programs that involve only simple data-structures --- this implies writing programs that are simple and/or inefficient. Not coincidentally, this is the reputation that Forth has in the real-world --- a toy language suitable only for writing toy programs. The only way for Forth to succeed is for Elizabeth Rather to be defeated!
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| From | Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 09:07 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <nva7k9lidntvu8d2hovtrkq39rocb67nfa@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #29421 |
On Mon, 7 Apr 2014 23:52:40 -0700 (PDT), hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote: >Elizabeth Rather is [...rant...] > >This idea of building data-structures from scratch for every application is stupid. This only works for ultra-simple data-structures such as linked-lists. This is a terrible idea for more complicated data-structures such as self-balancing trees. > >In my novice package I provide an LLRB tree (association.4th) --- Elizabeth Rather has [...personal attack...] > >Anybody who follows Elizabeth Rather's advice [...speculation...] Not coincidentally, this is the reputation that Forth has in the real-world --- a toy language suitable only for writing toy programs. > >The only way for Forth to succeed is for Elizabeth Rather to be defeated! Not sure what the etiquette is on C.L.F., but can I ask whether it's really necessary to follow-up every post of Elizabeth's with direct personal attacks. I get that some people feel very strongly about the role of various people or companies in the evolution of their favourite language. But I think everyone on C.L.F. knows this position (it's on almost every thread in which E.R. expresses herself). Look, at the end of the day, it's a free forum where people (I think for the most part) are here to talk about Forth stuff that they care about. My ask: could we just leave it at that, and maybe set aside the personal attacks (or at least put up all of the reasoning in a single thread or blog post somewhere and just refer to that thread whenever you feel you want to call attention to it?) No matter the situation, it just feels wrong to go after someone so doggedly and so personally on every posting. Thanks, and I mean this in the best way. - Assad
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| From | "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 12:35 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <li0muk$nv8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #29425 |
on 08/04/2014 09:07:29, Assad Ebrahim wrote: > On Mon, 7 Apr 2014 23:52:40 -0700 (PDT), hughaguilar96@yahoo.com > wrote: > >>Elizabeth Rather is [...rant...] >> >>This idea of building data-structures from scratch for every application is stupid. This only works for ultra-simple data-structures such as linked-lists. This is a terrible idea for more complicated data-structures such as self-balancing trees. >> >>In my novice package I provide an LLRB tree (association.4th) --- Elizabeth Rather has [...personal attack...] >> >>Anybody who follows Elizabeth Rather's advice [...speculation...] Not coincidentally, this is the reputation that Forth has in the real-world --- a toy language suitable only for writing toy programs. >> >>The only way for Forth to succeed is for Elizabeth Rather to be defeated! > > > Not sure what the etiquette is on C.L.F., but can I ask whether it's > really necessary to follow-up every post of Elizabeth's with direct > personal attacks. > > I get that some people feel very strongly about the role of various > people or companies in the evolution of their favourite language. > > But I think everyone on C.L.F. knows this position (it's on almost > every thread in which E.R. expresses herself). > > Look, at the end of the day, it's a free forum where people (I think > for the most part) are here to talk about Forth stuff that they care > about. > > My ask: could we just leave it at that, and maybe set aside the > personal attacks (or at least put up all of the reasoning in a single > thread or blog post somewhere and just refer to that thread whenever > you feel you want to call attention to it?) > > No matter the situation, it just feels wrong to go after someone so > doggedly and so personally on every posting. > > Thanks, and I mean this in the best way. > > - Assad > Ignore Hugh. He occasionally has some valid points, but they're well buried in his spittle flecked rants and pathological hatred of Elizabeth Rather and a number of other people here. Some, like you, have tried to educate him on the niceties of civilized discourse, but he's too far gone for that.
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 16:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <2014Apr8.182107@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #29425 |
Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> writes:
>Not sure what the etiquette is on C.L.F.,
Like on any other Usenet newsgroup, part of the etiquette is:
Do not feed the trolls!
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/
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| From | "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 16:33 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <op.xd0l1usz6zenlw@localhost> |
| In reply to | #29452 |
On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 12:21:07 -0400, Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: > Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> writes: >> Not sure what the etiquette is on C.L.F., > > Like on any other Usenet newsgroup, part of the etiquette is: > > Do not feed the trolls! > I don't see where calling Hugh a troll helps anything. He programs in Forth. One aspect of being a troll is not having any justification for posting to a newsgroup. Hugh is clearly attacking the c.l.f. newsgroup clique. As you should be well aware, he views the Forth "authorities" as an impediment to Forth progress. None of the Forth "authorities" have accepted his programs for novices or his language extensions, e.g., closures and his allocation method. How much rejection can one take before they begin fight back or simply go away? Rod Pemberton
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| From | "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 23:41 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <li1tvl$jbj$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #29461 |
on 08/04/2014 21:33:15, "Rod Pemberton" wrote: > On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 12:21:07 -0400, Anton Ertl > <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: >> Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> writes: > >>> Not sure what the etiquette is on C.L.F., >> >> Like on any other Usenet newsgroup, part of the etiquette is: >> >> Do not feed the trolls! >> > > I don't see where calling Hugh a troll helps anything. He > programs in Forth. One aspect of being a troll is not having > any justification for posting to a newsgroup. Hugh is clearly > attacking the c.l.f. newsgroup clique. As you should be well > aware, he views the Forth "authorities" as an impediment to Forth > progress. None of the Forth "authorities" have accepted his > programs for novices or his language extensions, e.g., closures > and his allocation method. How much rejection can one take > before they begin fight back or simply go away? > > > Rod Pemberton > Closures are too new to be standardized, and Hugh's description of them doesn't address some funamental issues that need to be addressed prior to formalization. His allocation method is trivial, possible to implement without carnal knowledge and not generally required; and is therefore a bad combination for standardization. All IMHO. Both were discussed here and may have been discussed on the Yahoo Forth200x list, but no RfDs have been forthcoming. Hugh has made one proposal; http://www.forth200x.org/colon-name.txt and it was extensively (and politely) discussed and rejected. Hugh did not rework it or resubmit it and it never made it to a call for votes (CfV). He has made no formal proposal for closures, nor for his allocation method. http://www.forth200x.org/ for RfDs.
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| From | hughaguilar96@yahoo.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 22:47 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b3828d6e-fb5e-4620-b101-918dccf4e6c8@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #29452 |
On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 9:21:07 AM UTC-7, Anton Ertl wrote: > Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> writes: > >Not sure what the etiquette is on C.L.F., > > Like on any other Usenet newsgroup, part of the etiquette is: > > Do not feed the trolls! Apparently that is why you didn't respond to me in this thread: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/x7cXQEcmvZQ Instead you were satisfied to let Julien Fondren call my code "stupid." You are only allowed to be a big chief on Forth-200x because Elizabeth Rather gives you permission. The topic for this thread is "Epic Fail" --- and Elizabeth Rather was the chair-person of the ANS-Forth committee --- pointing out the gross stupidity of Elizabeth Rather's statement that all data-structures must be customized for every application program is not off-topic. It does, in fact, hit the nail on the head. Forth-200x is going to be an "epic fail" just like ANS-Forth was, unless you kick Elizabeth Rather and Forth Inc. off the Forth-200x committee --- but you don't have the authority to do that --- so don't call me a troll, when you are nothing more than Elizabeth Rather's lap-dog yapping at me. You endlessly talk up your compiler-writing expertise. If you know so much about compiler-writing, why is Gforth the slowest Forth implementation available??? Gforth will never be used for any commercial program; it is a toy for your students to play with. Also, your Gforth is over-complicated --- to paraphrase Nietzsche: "nor are you clean enough for me; you muddy the waters to make them appear deep."
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| From | Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 10:43 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <li0cs0$smi$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #29421 |
On Mon, 7 Apr 2014 23:52:40 -0700 (PDT) hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote: > On Monday, April 7, 2014 10:33:16 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > > I think it's more that in Forth it's so easy to build data > > structures that are exactly right for the particular application at > > hand that worrying about what pre-built structures you have and how > > to use them is just not worth the bother. > > Elizabeth Rather is the #1 cause of Forth's "epic fail" --- primarily > because of her ongoing effort to prevent general-purpose Forth > software from being written. > > This idea of building data-structures from scratch for every > application is stupid. This only works for ultra-simple > data-structures such as linked-lists. This is a terrible idea for > more complicated data-structures such as self-balancing trees. Hm, C does not have container library, too, and I can't see it's popularity suffers because of that. -- Click OK to continue...
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 07:22 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xmwfvnboq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #29419 |
"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes: > I think it's more that in Forth it's so easy to build data structures > that are exactly right for the particular application at hand that > worrying about what pre-built structures you have and how to use them > is just not worth the bother. That approach has some merit on old minicomputers and contemporary microcontrollers, where every byte of program memory is precious, so even for a general purpose data structure like a dictionary you want to implement just the subset of features that the application needs. On bigger computers you can just use a generic implementation and be done with it. Why spend even 2 minutes implementing a dictionary, instead of using a language that already supports them?
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| From | Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 10:12 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <SYWdnZQM9dFCjNnOnZ2dnUVZ8l6dnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #29444 |
Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: > "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes: >> I think it's more that in Forth it's so easy to build data structures >> that are exactly right for the particular application at hand that >> worrying about what pre-built structures you have and how to use them >> is just not worth the bother. > > That approach has some merit on old minicomputers and contemporary > microcontrollers, where every byte of program memory is precious, so > even for a general purpose data structure like a dictionary you want > to implement just the subset of features that the application needs. > On bigger computers you can just use a generic implementation and be > done with it. Why spend even 2 minutes implementing a dictionary, > instead of using a language that already supports them? You're rather assuming that the dictionary can be treated as a black box with predictable high performance and reliability. If this is assumed to be true, I agree that argument has some merit. Andrew.
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 08:58 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7x8urfdd98.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #29446 |
Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes: > You're rather assuming that the dictionary can be treated as a black > box with predictable high performance and reliability. If this is > assumed to be true, I agree that argument has some merit. Practical observation shows that the dictionaries built into the various scripting languages or in standard libraries like C++'s work perfectly well for most applications. There may be a rare special case where you need a custom one, but that's not a reason to avoid the standard one in the usual case.
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 08:02 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <TrKdnaedE69cpNnOnZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #29444 |
On 4/8/14 4:22 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes: >> I think it's more that in Forth it's so easy to build data structures >> that are exactly right for the particular application at hand that >> worrying about what pre-built structures you have and how to use them >> is just not worth the bother. > > That approach has some merit on old minicomputers and contemporary > microcontrollers, where every byte of program memory is precious, so > even for a general purpose data structure like a dictionary you want to > implement just the subset of features that the application needs. On > bigger computers you can just use a generic implementation and be done > with it. Why spend even 2 minutes implementing a dictionary, instead of > using a language that already supports them? > Well, a dictionary is one data structure that Forth certainly *does* have! Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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| From | hughaguilar96@yahoo.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 23:07 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ff96fc21-06e5-4f34-9b58-e0f1af1ff44b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #29456 |
On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:02:41 AM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > On 4/8/14 4:22 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > > "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes: > >> I think it's more that in Forth it's so easy to build data structures > >> that are exactly right for the particular application at hand that > >> worrying about what pre-built structures you have and how to use them > >> is just not worth the bother. > > > That approach has some merit on old minicomputers and contemporary > > microcontrollers, where every byte of program memory is precious, so > > even for a general purpose data structure like a dictionary you want to > > implement just the subset of features that the application needs. On > > bigger computers you can just use a generic implementation and be done > > with it. Why spend even 2 minutes implementing a dictionary, instead of > > using a language that already supports them? > Well, a dictionary is one data structure that Forth certainly *does* have! I used the Forth dictionary as an association in my 65c02 source-level single-step debugger. The dictionary can be used, if nothing else is available --- but this is jerry-rigging. My ASSOCIATION.4TH is much better. I will work with any data type (that can be compared) as the key, not just strings. It allows an ordered traversal of a subset of the nodes. Nodes can be deleted. Entire trees can be cloned. There are a lot of cool features available! I stand by what I said --- you are incapable of implementing a general-purpose container comparable to my ASSOCIATION.4TH --- you are not a Forth programmer. BTW: SwiftForth uses a hash-table as its dictionary, but the table size is not a prime number. There is a comment in the source-code that says it would be a lot more efficient if it were a prime number --- apparently the programmer didn't have the authority to fix the problem, so he just left a comment there in the hopes that somebody would fix it in the future --- then it got released to your customers this way, and I read the comment. Not impressive!
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 10:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5343cdac$0$24945$e4fe514c@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #29416 |
In article <7xwqf04ffx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: <SNIP> >I wonder if the failure rate for Forth projects is any different. > >There's an old Yosefk post that may explain some of what goes on with >Forth: > > http://www.yosefk.com/blog/low-level-is-easy.html > >It says (among other things) low level approaches can be more tedious, >but have fewer dependencies and are more robust against going wrong >because somebody else's stuff broke, and tends to be more solid because >everyone else's stuff will break if the low level stuff fails. This sums up the ciforth philosophy rather well. Groetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 15:32 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <li0tpu$9tn$1@online.de> |
| In reply to | #29416 |
Paul Rubin wrote: >> Quite often, run-of-the-mill managers are scared by people who do >> their stuff in Forth, and then try to replace their work with >> run-of-the-mill people and tools. The typical outcome is a complete >> failure - many software projects are failures, anyways > > I wonder if the failure rate for Forth projects is any different. If you use run-of-the-mill people, you will have a high failure rate, too. Take the fuel gauge project at Dialog as example: I left, and while the customer was quite happy as long as I was there, the project became a failure after my departure. I knew why they did buy our team, because they did not only lack the knowledge, they also were completely unable to keep the knowledgable people. As Elizabeth said, the root cause of failures is usually mismanagement. You need good management to make a project a success, and one key management skill is to get good people to work on the project. Bad managers often say "good people are very difficult to manage", because yelling at them doesn't work. > There's an old Yosefk post that may explain some of what goes on with > Forth: > > http://www.yosefk.com/blog/low-level-is-easy.html > > It says (among other things) low level approaches can be more tedious, > but have fewer dependencies and are more robust against going wrong > because somebody else's stuff broke, and tends to be more solid because > everyone else's stuff will break if the low level stuff fails. Yes, the reason why I like to do such a lot of things myself is that building on other people's code means the stuff is broken. The low-level stuff usually works, it is the middle layer which is overly complicated and therefore bug-ridden. However, the conclusion of this article is that the low-level stuff gets enough pressure to work, while the high-level stuff doesn't. Why? I don't think Microsoft's people liked the fact that some component did misdraw under certain conditions; they for sure have put up pressure to fix that stuff. They just couldn't fix it, because it was too complex, and they (typical Microsoft-mentality) needed the backward compatibility. So throwing it away and redoing from scratch wasn't possible. In the meantime, they are way more into throwing things away and redoing them from scratch, and while their software quality improves, their customers really don't like it. The article also explains why so many morons pick up high-level stuff: It looks easy. It isn't. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" http://bernd-paysan.de/
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| From | "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 17:46 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <op.xd0pfeud6zenlw@localhost> |
| In reply to | #29442 |
On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 09:32:45 -0400, Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote: > Yes, the reason why I like to do such a lot of things myself is > that building on other people's code means the stuff is broken. How do you ensure that your replacement code isn't just as broken as you perceive theirs to be? I.e., what's to prevent others from concluding the same thing as you when they look at your code? ... > However, the conclusion of this article is that the low-level stuff > gets enough pressure to work, while the high-level stuff doesn't. Bugs can exist in code for a long, long time before being noticed. The more thoroughly tested the code, the less likely they will exist. The more frequently the code is used, the more likely they will be found. Sometimes they're critical, sometimes they're not. Does it make sense to invest time and money fixing trivial bugs? Many business managers simply decide it's not worth the cost to fix. Rod Pemberton
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| From | Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-09 01:06 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <li1vcu$kjq$2@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #29442 |
On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 15:32:45 +0200 Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote: > > The article also explains why so many morons pick up high-level > stuff: It looks easy. It isn't. > Problem is that there are people who make memory leaks in Java. It is far easier to pick easy language and make so so workable code. C programmers can also program Javascript and PHP but not the opposite. Low level stuff is not easy and requires much more code and knowledge. Nothing is easy but it is easier to learn library than to write it. Once I asked one guy who advocated ADA who will write low level stuff if I can't write it in ADA. He replied that those things would be written by experts in *assembler* ;) -- Click OK to continue...
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 18:06 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xlhvfgvl1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #29465 |
Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> writes: > Once I asked one guy who advocated ADA who will write > low level stuff if I can't write it in ADA. > He replied that those things would be written by experts > in *assembler* ;) I don't understand what you're getting at here. Ada lets you do about the same stuff as C, though less conveniently. If you have to muck with machine addresses you can do it through a subroutine call interface rather than with pointers directly in the language. If you want something like coroutines, you're stuck calling assembler, just like if you were writing the higher levels in C.
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| From | Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-09 02:56 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <li25rb$2tq$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #29469 |
On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 18:06:34 -0700 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: > Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> writes: > > Once I asked one guy who advocated ADA who will write > > low level stuff if I can't write it in ADA. > > He replied that those things would be written by experts > > in *assembler* ;) > > I don't understand what you're getting at here. Ada lets you do about > the same stuff as C, though less conveniently. Oh, no, I didn't want to criticize ADA. Guy advocated ADA as safe language opposite to C++, which is unsafe. So I questioned who will write unsafe(low level) code. Guy didn't want to admit that you can write unsafe code in ADA, and didn't want to say C - but assembler, it was funny ;) If you have to muck > with machine addresses you can do it through a subroutine call > interface rather than with pointers directly in the language. If you > want something like coroutines, you're stuck calling assembler, just > like if you were writing the higher levels in C. -- Click OK to continue...
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