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Mecrisp Forth Startup

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  Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 14:42 -0400
    Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 15:37 -0400
    Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 22:37 -0400
      Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2017-03-27 15:27 +0200
        Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 10:56 -0400
    Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 16:24 -0400
      Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-25 15:33 -0500
        Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 17:23 -0400
          Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-25 17:32 -0500
            Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 03:09 -0400
              Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 02:50 -0700
                Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 07:56 -0400
                  Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-26 11:04 -0700
                Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-26 13:24 -0500
                  Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 14:45 -0400
                    Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-26 14:16 -0500
                    Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-26 14:53 -0500
                      Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 02:16 -0700
                      Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 12:51 -0400
                        Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 12:56 -0400
                          Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-29 12:24 -0500
                        Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-29 12:32 -0500
                          Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 14:15 -0400
              Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-26 13:44 -0500
      Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-25 14:42 -0700
        Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup john <anon@example.com> - 2017-05-03 11:30 +0100
    Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-26 13:56 -0500
      Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 16:29 -0400
        Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-31 16:49 -0500
          Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 18:16 -0400
    Re: Mecrisp Forth Startup rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 13:19 -0400

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#56459

On 3/29/2017 11:56 AM, rickman wrote:
> On 3/29/2017 12:51 PM, rickman wrote:
>> On 3/26/2017 3:53 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>>
>>> I created a group at group.io you can take a look at it;
>>>
>>> <  https://groups.io/g/mecrispforth  >
>>>
>>> Let me know so I can either migrate the Yahoo group over or delete the
>>> group.
>>
>> I joined your group and posted a couple of days ago.  I've yet to see a
>> reply.  Do you check the group?
>
> It would appear that as a user I don't have permission to upload any
> files, photos or wiki pages.  At least I can't find any controls to let
> me do any of that.
>
I believe the default settings does not allow a moderated account to 
post photos or files, I will look at it and see. I will remove you from 
moderation.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#56460

On 3/29/2017 11:51 AM, rickman wrote:
> On 3/26/2017 3:53 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>
>> I created a group at group.io you can take a look at it;
>>
>> <  https://groups.io/g/mecrispforth  >
>>
>> Let me know so I can either migrate the Yahoo group over or delete the
>> group.
>
> I joined your group and posted a couple of days ago.  I've yet to see a
> reply.  Do you check the group?
>

I get a notice when there is someone joining, or needs moderation, I 
received your email but I was busy at the time and did not read it 
carefully, sorry about that.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#56462

On 3/29/2017 1:32 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 3/29/2017 11:51 AM, rickman wrote:
>> On 3/26/2017 3:53 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>>
>>> I created a group at group.io you can take a look at it;
>>>
>>> <  https://groups.io/g/mecrispforth  >
>>>
>>> Let me know so I can either migrate the Yahoo group over or delete the
>>> group.
>>
>> I joined your group and posted a couple of days ago.  I've yet to see a
>> reply.  Do you check the group?
>>
>
> I get a notice when there is someone joining, or needs moderation, I
> received your email but I was busy at the time and did not read it
> carefully, sorry about that.

Sure.  I guess it's not like this will be a heavily used group anytime 
soon.  I've been away for a day or two so I was thinking I would see 
some response when I checked back.  lol

I had some thoughts about nomenclature which I posted.  Hopefully we can 
get Matthias to join.

The only thing missing from groups.io that Yahoo has is a links section. 
  I wish they included that.

I got your email about Terry's site and I don't really know Terry well, 
but I doubt he will be interested in using a subdomain.  Just the fact 
that he set up a web page on a server under an IP address and not a URL 
says to me that he knows very well what he is doing and also has very 
clear preferences.  The Mecrisp group has a wiki which might be able do 
the same thing as his site.  But I'm not going to abandon the work he 
has done and work on a competing feature.

I have a hosting account where a domain can be hosted which points to 
his site.  I also own a Forth related domain name or two.  I will ask 
him if he minds if I set up a domain as a URL to point to his pages. 
I'm not sure this won't create its own problems with browsers and 
protective software.  I seem to recall this sort of redirection being 
flagged when surfing.  Maybe that is only when clicking links in emails, 
I don't remember for sure.

I will let you contact him about your ideas.

-- 

Rick C

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#56348

On 3/26/2017 2:09 AM, rickman wrote:
> On 3/25/2017 6:32 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>> On 3/25/2017 4:23 PM, rickman wrote:
>>> On 3/25/2017 4:33 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>> On 3/25/2017 3:24 PM, rickman wrote:
>>>>> I created a Yahoo group for Mecrisp users.  If you are using
>>>>> Mecrisp or
>>>>> are interested in using Mecrisp you can discuss your project, usage
>>>>> and
>>>>> ideas at the link below.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MecrispForth/info
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm thinking not all Mecrisp users use c.l.f.  Now all I have to do is
>>>>> reach them.  lol
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Big mistake not requiring members to be approved, you are going to get
>>>> spammers.
>>>
>>> Thank you for that reminder.  I don't approve new members, but new
>>> members' posts will be moderated until they are shown to not be
>>> spammers.  I don't think we will have much trouble with members needing
>>> moderation other than excluding spammers.  I'm not interested in the
>>> work of moderating.  I don't expect this group to attract too many
>>> members, but you never know.
>>>
>>
>> Moderating is not difficult, but spammers left on their own will create
>> many accounts and then bombard the list with spam, one can't delete them
>> quickly enough if the can create a new account without any barriers.
>>
>> Time will tell, I have belonged to groups that were rendered useless
>> until the owners started moderating new user comments and new accounts.
>> I'm one of the owners of a list with over 10000 members and its not bad
>> to keep an eye on things.
>
> I already explained to you that I have moderation on new members.  I
> have a dozen Yahoo groups that work this way and hardly hear from
> spammers.  When they realize their posts will be moderated they go away.
>  I even took over a group that was dead from spammers.  I turned on
> moderation on new members and killed any existing members who spammed.
> After a while the spamming all stopped and even the new attempts dropped
> off to nearly nothing.
>
> I will say that over the years most of the groups have gone into disuse.
>  Mostly because the topics have become less interesting or obsolete.  I
> have an ArmForth group that is essentially visited by one poster who
> simply uploads his work to the files section.  He never really documents
> his work so not many people utilize it, but some do.  Once in a while
> someone asks a question about his stuff and I don't think I've seen a
> reply.
>
> I'm hoping the Mecrisp group will have a bit more success.  I'd like to
> see Mecrisp acquire more documentation.  Some of that can come from
> conversations about what people find hard to use or understand.
>
Well if it has work fine then that is that, in a group I moderate I've 
caught a few spammers trying to sign up, a clue is that they don't want 
any emails so why sign up? Anyway after a short while they stopped 
trying and all is well now.

I moderate a Yahoo Group that was useless with SPAM, the owner was not 
keeping up with it, I appealed to him to allow multiple moderators to 
handle the load and he went with it, now it took about a week, deleted 
all the spammers and set the first comment from new users to be 
moderated, and the group is all cleaned up now, no SPAM at all.

I've tried to convince people to move the group away from Yahoo as this 
group has an excellent history of comments and files that could be lost 
at a moments notice since Yahoo is trying to sell it's groups but to no 
avail, everyone wants to wait and see, so I stopped worrying about it, I 
have always kept copies of all emails that are important to me going 
back to 1991.


-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#56300

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MecrispForth/info

Meh, now they need yahoo accounts.  That's even worse than clf.  It
would be better to just run a forum somewhere, though I prefer usenet to
those.

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#58571

In article <87tw6huj6t.fsf@nightsong.com>, no.email@nospam.invalid says...
> 

> Meh, now they need yahoo accounts.  That's even worse than clf.  It
> would be better to just run a forum somewhere, though I prefer usenet to
> those.

Theres one online Paul - all you have to do is use it.

-- 

john

=========================
http://johntech.co.uk

"Bleeding Edge Forum"
http://johntech.co.uk/forum/ 

=========================

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#56350

On 3/23/2017 1:42 PM, rickman wrote:
> I recall a couple of years ago I worked with Mecrisp Forth on a TI ARM
> launchpad.  The hardest part was just getting the durn thing installed
> and all the support on the PC working.  Now I want to use an MSP430
> target (it has a built in display) and I am having exactly the same sort
> of problems.
>
> Aside from the issues of TI having somewhat fragmented documentation (or
> maybe I just can't follow instructions in my dotage) I never got the USB
> driver installed under Windows 8 (or was that on my Vista machine?)  To
> make it work back then I ended up using a raspberry pi as a remote
> target interface.  It worked, I got the work done and all was well.  But
> it left a bad taste in my mouth, mostly from the problems getting the TI
> tools to let me burn the Mecrisp image to the target but also the lack
> of documentation surrounding Mecrisp.
>
> This time it is like a trip down déjà vu lane (although it is more like
> déjà vécu, having lived through it before).  I don't know if I will have
> problems installing the emulator driver because I can't download it. The
> TI site has a form you must fill out to assure you are not going to ship
> the tool to an export controlled country.  I do that and click all the
> buttons on the next two pages, but a download never happens.  I've tried
> two browsers so I'm pretty sure it is the TI site.
>
> I finally found a TI web page that supports flashing the board and even
> flashed the flash tool!  So I can install Mecrisp now, but I still need
> to figure out what I need to do to talk to it.  That at least is pretty
> well documented in the readme file.  It looks like the command line is
> connected to the serial port that goes through the emulator interface.  :)
>

I will tomorrow start looking at the documentation on how to install the 
software and give it a go, so far noForth is pretty good compared to 
several other Forth I tried, but meCrisp, and VFX have not been tried 
and compared.

The comparison weights in many factors such as supported processors, 
efficiency on how fast it runs and how much resources it takes, how 
useful is it's Forth implementation, source code availability.

No doubt MPE VFX Forth will do well as it can be embedded or it can be 
tethered to save space, and in tethered mode there is a very nice 
optimizer built in. The main disadvantage it has an it is an annoying 
one is that it setup for Flash processors only and there is no sample of 
it supporting the FRAM parts which are the main parts I'm interested in, 
so there would be some major work to modify it to work with FRAM parts. 
It will do well in several aspects, efficiency as it's an optimizing 
compiler and available in tethered form so only needed works are used, 
and it has extensive functions, both words available and use of 
resources such as i2c, spi, SD cards, etc.

The whole purpose of the exercise is to make some projects available to 
others use so I want to pick the right software so others can easily 
follow. For that reason I will test the free version of MPE instead of 
the Professional Version.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#56514

On 3/26/2017 2:56 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>
> I will tomorrow start looking at the documentation on how to install the
> software and give it a go, so far noForth is pretty good compared to
> several other Forth I tried, but meCrisp, and VFX have not been tried
> and compared.

Have you started your eval of Mecrisp yet?


> The comparison weights in many factors such as supported processors,
> efficiency on how fast it runs and how much resources it takes, how
> useful is it's Forth implementation, source code availability.
>
> No doubt MPE VFX Forth will do well as it can be embedded or it can be
> tethered to save space, and in tethered mode there is a very nice
> optimizer built in. The main disadvantage it has an it is an annoying
> one is that it setup for Flash processors only and there is no sample of
> it supporting the FRAM parts which are the main parts I'm interested in,
> so there would be some major work to modify it to work with FRAM parts.
> It will do well in several aspects, efficiency as it's an optimizing
> compiler and available in tethered form so only needed works are used,
> and it has extensive functions, both words available and use of
> resources such as i2c, spi, SD cards, etc.
>
> The whole purpose of the exercise is to make some projects available to
> others use so I want to pick the right software so others can easily
> follow. For that reason I will test the free version of MPE instead of
> the Professional Version.

Do you plan to write a review of each system?  It would be a *very* 
useful web page to have reviews of the various embedded Forth systems so 
others can save a bunch of time when going through the same process.  If 
you simply pick your choice and provide info on that, a lot will be lost 
since others won't have your same preferences and requirements.

-- 

Rick C

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#56515

On 3/31/2017 3:29 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 3/26/2017 2:56 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>
>> I will tomorrow start looking at the documentation on how to install the
>> software and give it a go, so far noForth is pretty good compared to
>> several other Forth I tried, but meCrisp, and VFX have not been tried
>> and compared.
>
> Have you started your eval of Mecrisp yet?
>
>
>> The comparison weights in many factors such as supported processors,
>> efficiency on how fast it runs and how much resources it takes, how
>> useful is it's Forth implementation, source code availability.
>>
>> No doubt MPE VFX Forth will do well as it can be embedded or it can be
>> tethered to save space, and in tethered mode there is a very nice
>> optimizer built in. The main disadvantage it has an it is an annoying
>> one is that it setup for Flash processors only and there is no sample of
>> it supporting the FRAM parts which are the main parts I'm interested in,
>> so there would be some major work to modify it to work with FRAM parts.
>> It will do well in several aspects, efficiency as it's an optimizing
>> compiler and available in tethered form so only needed works are used,
>> and it has extensive functions, both words available and use of
>> resources such as i2c, spi, SD cards, etc.
>>
>> The whole purpose of the exercise is to make some projects available to
>> others use so I want to pick the right software so others can easily
>> follow. For that reason I will test the free version of MPE instead of
>> the Professional Version.
>
> Do you plan to write a review of each system?  It would be a *very*
> useful web page to have reviews of the various embedded Forth systems so
> others can save a bunch of time when going through the same process.  If
> you simply pick your choice and provide info on that, a lot will be lost
> since others won't have your same preferences and requirements.
>
Sorry some health issues came up and I have no had time to do it, I am 
going out of town this weekend so it will have to wait until next week.

I had not planned a review but I will think about and will have to do 
additional testing then.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#56516

On 3/31/2017 5:49 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 3/31/2017 3:29 PM, rickman wrote:
>> On 3/26/2017 2:56 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>
>>> I will tomorrow start looking at the documentation on how to install the
>>> software and give it a go, so far noForth is pretty good compared to
>>> several other Forth I tried, but meCrisp, and VFX have not been tried
>>> and compared.
>>
>> Have you started your eval of Mecrisp yet?
>>
>>
>>> The comparison weights in many factors such as supported processors,
>>> efficiency on how fast it runs and how much resources it takes, how
>>> useful is it's Forth implementation, source code availability.
>>>
>>> No doubt MPE VFX Forth will do well as it can be embedded or it can be
>>> tethered to save space, and in tethered mode there is a very nice
>>> optimizer built in. The main disadvantage it has an it is an annoying
>>> one is that it setup for Flash processors only and there is no sample of
>>> it supporting the FRAM parts which are the main parts I'm interested in,
>>> so there would be some major work to modify it to work with FRAM parts.
>>> It will do well in several aspects, efficiency as it's an optimizing
>>> compiler and available in tethered form so only needed works are used,
>>> and it has extensive functions, both words available and use of
>>> resources such as i2c, spi, SD cards, etc.
>>>
>>> The whole purpose of the exercise is to make some projects available to
>>> others use so I want to pick the right software so others can easily
>>> follow. For that reason I will test the free version of MPE instead of
>>> the Professional Version.
>>
>> Do you plan to write a review of each system?  It would be a *very*
>> useful web page to have reviews of the various embedded Forth systems so
>> others can save a bunch of time when going through the same process.  If
>> you simply pick your choice and provide info on that, a lot will be lost
>> since others won't have your same preferences and requirements.
>>
> Sorry some health issues came up and I have no had time to do it, I am
> going out of town this weekend so it will have to wait until next week.
>
> I had not planned a review but I will think about and will have to do
> additional testing then.

Sorry to hear about the health issues.

I'm not at all trying to rush you.  I was just curious how it was going 
for you and would be happy to offer any help I can.

I don't think you need to do any extra work.  I'm just asking that since 
you are collecting so much data that you share it.  It doesn't have to 
be a perfectly complete collection.  Like Terry Porter's Mecrisp 
documentation is becoming a shared project, others can help you fill in 
the gaps once the information makes it to a web page of some sort.

Heck, I tried that once back when ARM MCUs were still rather new.  I 
created a spread sheet of every one I could find with some details of 
features and put it up as a web page and a download.  Over the following 
year or two keeping it updated became an enormous task as NXP and others 
started pumping out new devices with lots of new features.  I ended up 
having to scrap the effort as it became much too large for a simple 
spread sheet.

-- 

Rick C

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#56458

I think it is unfortunate that Mecrisp for the MSP430 is called just 
"Mecrisp" and for the ARM it is called "Mecrisp-Stellaris".  People will 
naturally want to use "Mecrisp" to refer to the two Forths collectively 
which is how documentation will naturally be organized.  I guess those 
preparing documentation will have to use the term "Mecrisp-430" for the 
MSP430 version and just deal with the confusion from the existing 
information available, including the file names.

-- 

Rick C

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