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Does anybody use Windows XP ?

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  Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-26 15:30 -0700
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-26 17:05 -0700
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? AKK <akk@nospam.org> - 2014-03-27 00:49 +0100
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-27 01:33 +0000
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-03-27 01:45 -0700
      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-03-27 08:39 -1000
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-01 01:26 +0200
          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-03-31 23:55 -0700
            Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-01 11:16 +0200
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? jzakiya@gmail.com - 2014-03-27 11:18 -0700
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-03-27 20:04 +0000
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-03-27 18:11 -0400
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-03-28 02:05 +0000
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-03-28 10:53 +0100
      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-03-28 15:15 -0700
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-28 15:42 -0700
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-28 16:17 -0700
          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-28 17:49 -0700
            Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-28 17:52 -0700
              Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-28 18:50 -0700
                Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-28 22:31 -0700
                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-28 23:18 -0700
                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-29 15:03 -0700
                      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-29 16:55 -0700
                        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-29 20:19 -0700
                          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-29 20:55 -0700
                            Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-30 21:14 +0200
                              Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-30 13:09 -0700
                                Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-31 13:26 +0200
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-03-31 18:14 -0400
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-31 15:42 -0700
                                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-01 14:27 +0200
                            Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-30 22:58 -0700
                              Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-03-31 18:18 -0400
                                Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-31 23:10 -0700
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-04-01 00:17 -0700
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-01 19:16 -0400
                                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-04-01 16:34 -0700
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-01 20:10 -0400
                                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-04-01 21:26 -0700
                              Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-01 02:17 +0200
                                Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-31 22:23 -0700
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-01 07:45 +0200
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-01 11:37 +0000
                                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-04-01 05:59 -0700
                                      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-01 16:43 +0000
                                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-04-03 14:33 +0200
                      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-01 02:15 +0200
                Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> - 2014-03-29 05:50 -0500
              Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-29 09:19 +0000
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-03-29 14:16 +0100
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-03-30 00:33 +0000
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-30 21:08 +0200
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2014-03-31 00:23 -0700
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-01 10:15 -0700
      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-04-01 10:38 -0700
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-01 10:55 -0700
          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-04-01 11:30 -0700
            Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-01 21:20 +0200
          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-01 19:41 -0400
          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-01 16:46 -0700

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#29152 — Does anybody use Windows XP ?

Microsoft announced to end support of Windows XP on April 8, just two weeks from today. MSE will be updated until 2015, I read, and some AV companies will support their AV software for an even longer time.

I checked Windows 7 - programs which I developed on XP are running on Windows 7 - but to develop under Windows 7 is a real pain, Windows 7 is a real productivity killer. I am sure that Windows 8 isn't better.

I am sure April 8 was chosen to remind upgrading to Windows 8 - some kind of blackmail IMHO.

I googled for ' best linux to replace windows xp ' - you need only to type ' best linux xp ', then this will be offered automatically. The top offers are PCLinuxOS, Linux-Mint, and Zoran.

Is anybody looking for a solution, too?
Does anybody have experience with any of these Linux flavors?

What are you doing? What OS are you using?

Answers appreciated.

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#29154

visualforth@rocketmail.com writes:
> I checked Windows 7 - programs which I developed on XP are running on
> Windows 7 - but to develop under Windows 7 is a real pain, Windows 7
> is a real productivity killer. I am sure that Windows 8 isn't better.

From what I hear, Windows 7 is not especially bad, but 8 is worse.

> I googled for ' best linux to replace windows xp ' - you need only to
> type ' best linux xp ', then this will be offered automatically. The
> top offers are PCLinuxOS, Linux-Mint, and Zoran.

I haven't heard of PCLinuxOS or Zoran but generally I've cringed at
Linux distros aimed at trying to resemble Windows.  I'm also not too
keen about Mint for similar reasons (Mint includes malware like Adobe
Flash).

> What are you doing? What OS are you using?

I use Fedora on the desktop and Debian on servers.  Debian is more
stable and traditional than Fedora and I'm thinking of using it on
everything (switching my desktop from Fedora).  Fedora's advantage (or
disadvantage) is that its distro is more up-to-date and more full
featured at installation time.  Debian installs a simpler system which
means you then have to download additional packages that you want to
use.

I'm also interested in Nixos and Guix, which are new and use novel
packaging techniques, but I haven't tried them yet.

If you just want a simple recommendation, I'd suggest Debian (debian.org).

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#29155

Am 26.03.2014 23:30, schrieb visualforth@rocketmail.com:
> Microsoft announced to end support of Windows XP on April 8, just two weeks from today. MSE will be updated until 2015, I read, and some AV companies will support their AV software for an even longer time.
>
> I checked Windows 7 - programs which I developed on XP are running on Windows 7 - but to develop under Windows 7 is a real pain, Windows 7 is a real productivity killer. I am sure that Windows 8 isn't better.
>
> I am sure April 8 was chosen to remind upgrading to Windows 8 - some kind of blackmail IMHO.
>
> I googled for ' best linux to replace windows xp ' - you need only to type ' best linux xp ', then this will be offered automatically. The top offers are PCLinuxOS, Linux-Mint, and Zoran.
>
> Is anybody looking for a solution, too?
> Does anybody have experience with any of these Linux flavors?
>
> What are you doing? What OS are you using?
>
> Answers appreciated.
>

a) I am happy with Manjaro Linux, runs fluently on most halfway modern 
hardware. However Pentium M and many older CPUs don't have PAE, then you 
may need another kernel (f.ex. Ubuntu 12.04 LTS). XP habitués should 
choose an XFCE or Mate desktop though.

b) Why don't you just continue to use XP ??????  Don't follow the M$ 
piper !  ;-)

c) What is so much different between XP and W7 ??

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#29157

In article <f70266a9-5e85-4a2d-b88e-fbf07e199743@googlegroups.com>,
 <visualforth@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>Microsoft announced to end support of Windows XP on April 8, just two
>weeks from today. MSE will be updated until 2015, I read, and some AV
>companies will support their AV software for an even longer time.
>
>I checked Windows 7 - programs which I developed on XP are running on
>Windows 7 - but to develop under Windows 7 is a real pain, Windows 7 is
>a real productivity killer. I am sure that Windows 8 isn't better.
>
>I am sure April 8 was chosen to remind upgrading to Windows 8 - some
>kind of blackmail IMHO.
>
>I googled for ' best linux to replace windows xp ' - you need only to
>type ' best linux xp ', then this will be offered automatically. The top
>offers are PCLinuxOS, Linux-Mint, and Zoran.
>
>Is anybody looking for a solution, too?
>Does anybody have experience with any of these Linux flavors?
>
>What are you doing? What OS are you using?

My main boot is always linux.
From left to right, in brackets an alternative boot up
(not counting the machines in the basement, and the raspberry pi)

Suse (MS Windows Xp)
Debian (DRDOS)
Suse (MS Windows 3.11, replaceable Harddisk with MS Windows 95 1]
Debian with MS Windows XP in a Vbox (ubuntu)
RedHat (MS Windows NT) : a DEC alpha

Let nobody stop you using XP. Just do what I always did.
Whenever I connect the XP to the LAN, I disconnect the LAN from the
Internet.
Don't bother with virus scanners. It is a stop gap.
Never bought one, never used one, never got a virus.

I don't think it matters much which Linux brand you use.
There are minor annoyance like a .. entry missing in a file browser
to be windows compatible, or disabling the middle mouse button
in X, to be windows compatible.

>
>Answers appreciated.
>

1] Last time I fired that one up was 1998.
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#29159

Two things:

* Your XP installation is not going to vanish in a puff of smoke on the 8th April. Just install a virus checker (something like AVG or Avast), a firewall, and get on with getting on. I have two little netbooks at home both running XP, and I have no plans to upgrade either of them. If/when the rotary hard disks fail I'll replace them with SSDs and install either Win 7, or, maybe I'll experiment and try a Linux installation, though last time I did that I wasn't impressed.

* What specifically is so bad about developing in a Widows 7 environment? We're using it all day long here; I use Netbeans for Java and Visual Studio for .Net. That it's running on Win7 and not XP is transparent. Can't tell the difference.

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#29161

On 3/26/14 10:45 PM, Mark Wills wrote:
> Two things:
>
> * Your XP installation is not going to vanish in a puff of smoke on the 8th April. Just install a virus checker (something like AVG or Avast), a firewall, and get on with getting on. I have two little netbooks at home both running XP, and I have no plans to upgrade either of them. If/when the rotary hard disks fail I'll replace them with SSDs and install either Win 7, or, maybe I'll experiment and try a Linux installation, though last time I did that I wasn't impressed.
>
> * What specifically is so bad about developing in a Widows 7 environment? We're using it all day long here; I use Netbeans for Java and Visual Studio for .Net. That it's running on Win7 and not XP is transparent. Can't tell the difference.
>

I like Win7 much better than XP. It's faster, and in many respect easier 
to use. I think it's one of MS's better products. Fortunately it's still 
available -- Win8 appears to be another disaster.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#29204

On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 08:39:09 -1000
"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> wrote:

> 
> I like Win7 much better than XP. It's faster, and in many respect
> easier to use. I think it's one of MS's better products. Fortunately
> it's still available -- Win8 appears to be another disaster.

I have tried both win7 and 8. I think that 8 is under the hub
much more advanced than 7.
Gui of 8 is ridiculous, as are 'modern' applications, but
OS itself looks more advanced and applications more responsive.

> 
> Cheers,
> Elizabeth
> 



-- 
Click OK to continue...

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#29211

On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 1:26:07 AM UTC+2, Melzzzzz wrote:
> I have tried both win7 and 8. I think that 8 is under the hub
> much more advanced than 7.
> Gui of 8 is ridiculous, as are 'modern' applications, but
> OS itself looks more advanced and applications more responsive.
[..]
This is a bit vague. How did you evaluate how advanced W8 is,
and how (and of what) did you measure the responsiveness?

-marcel

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#29217

On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 23:55:27 -0700 (PDT)
m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 1:26:07 AM UTC+2, Melzzzzz wrote:
> > I have tried both win7 and 8. I think that 8 is under the hub
> > much more advanced than 7.
> > Gui of 8 is ridiculous, as are 'modern' applications, but
> > OS itself looks more advanced and applications more responsive.
> [..]
> This is a bit vague. How did you evaluate how advanced W8 is,
> and how (and of what) did you measure the responsiveness?

I just have feeling by running it. No scientific methods used ;)

> 
> -marcel



-- 
Click OK to continue...

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#29160

On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 6:30:08 PM UTC-4, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> Microsoft announced to end support of Windows XP on April 8, just two weeks from today. MSE will be updated until 2015, I read, and some AV companies will support their AV software for an even longer time.
> 
> 
> 
> I checked Windows 7 - programs which I developed on XP are running on Windows 7 - but to develop under Windows 7 is a real pain, Windows 7 is a real productivity killer. I am sure that Windows 8 isn't better.
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure April 8 was chosen to remind upgrading to Windows 8 - some kind of blackmail IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> I googled for ' best linux to replace windows xp ' - you need only to type ' best linux xp ', then this will be offered automatically. The top offers are PCLinuxOS, Linux-Mint, and Zoran.
> 
> 
> 
> Is anybody looking for a solution, too?
> 
> Does anybody have experience with any of these Linux flavors?
> 
> 
> 
> What are you doing? What OS are you using?
> 
> 
> 
> Answers appreciated.

I've been using PCLinuxOS (PCLOS) for nearly 10 years.
It is one of the easiest to use Linux distros out there.

All 3 listed are good for new Linux users, try them all if desired, and use the one you like most (or all 3 with a VM).

The best single site that lists all known Linux distros, and all news about them is Distrowatch (www.distrowatch.com).

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#29162

visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote:

> Microsoft announced to end support of Windows XP on April 8, just two
> weeks from today. MSE will be updated until 2015, I read, and some AV
> companies will support their AV software for an even longer time.
> 
> I checked Windows 7 - programs which I developed on XP are running on
> Windows 7 - but to develop under Windows 7 is a real pain, Windows 7 is a
> real productivity killer. I am sure that Windows 8 isn't better.
> 
> I am sure April 8 was chosen to remind upgrading to Windows 8 - some kind
> of blackmail IMHO.
> 
> I googled for ' best linux to replace windows xp ' - you need only to type
> ' best linux xp ', then this will be offered automatically. The top offers
> are PCLinuxOS, Linux-Mint, and Zoran.
> 
> Is anybody looking for a solution, too?
> Does anybody have experience with any of these Linux flavors?
> 
> What are you doing? What OS are you using?
> 
> Answers appreciated.

I have one old laptop that uses XP and has RS232 ports. This is retained for 
some species of PLC programming software and, considering its age and the 
fading of those PLC's into the mist, may soon end up being recycled.

For my main systems I use Mageia 4 which is a nice stable environment (came 
from the Mandriva and Mandrake stables which I think had relationships with 
Debian). MPE's VfxForth runs nicely on the platform and I have excellent 3D 
CAD (VariCAD) and Eagle running on it also (complete manufacturing design 
resources). Libre Office comes as part of the package (documents, 
spreasheets, drawing and presentation apps). I also have a video editing 
suite application for editing the Camcorder offerings.

-- 
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************

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#29163

On Wed, 26 Mar 2014 18:30:08 -0400, <visualforth@rocketmail.com> wrote:

> Microsoft announced to end support of Windows XP on April 8, just two
> weeks from today.

I would recomment making sure XP is updated with the final MS updates.
Then, install AVG Free for virus scanning, and Spybot Search & Destroy
for malware.

Spybot
http://www.safer-networking.org/

AVG
http://free.avg.com/us-en/homepage

I used AVG and Spybot on Windows 98/SE and XP computers for roughly a
decade without them failing.  So, those will generally do the job.  If
you're unsure whether you need even more virus protection, you could run
McAfee Stinger and TrendMicro Sysclean.  McAfee Stinger checks for the most
recent 5000 viruses.  TrendMicro Sysclean checks for almost every virus
that has ever been found.  Of course, a number of Russian companies, like
Kaspersky, have been making a name for themselves lately.  I would avoid
Norton Anti-virus as uninstalling it is like removing a virus by hand ...
There are also many AV companies that provide a free online scan too.

> MSE will be updated until 2015, I read, and some AV companies will
> support their AV software for an even longer time.

As long as the AV company doesn't change the data format for their virus
specification files, you can continue to use and update the program.
The point being you may have to switch to a different AV program at some
point, but you'll likely still be able to get updates for a decade or so.

E.g., I continued to use AVG on Windows 98/SE until a couple of years
ago, almost a decade after MS declared 98 "dead."  Even today, there
are a handful of virus checkers (DOS commandline versions) from the
major AV companies that work on Windows 98/SE/ME.

> I checked Windows 7 - programs which I developed on XP are running on
> Windows 7 - but to develop under Windows 7 is a real pain, Windows 7 is
> a real productivity killer. I am sure that Windows 8 isn't better.
...

> I am sure April 8 was chosen to remind upgrading to Windows 8 - some
> kind of blackmail IMHO.
...

> I googled for ' best linux to replace windows xp ' - you need only to
> type ' best linux xp ', then this will be offered automatically. The top
> offers are PCLinuxOS, Linux-Mint, and Zoran.

There are websites, like distrowatch.com, which rank the most popular
Linux distribution.  Generally, Ubuntu is near the top.  It's newer
and popular.  Then, you'll find distros that have been around for a
long time, such as Redhat (Fedora), Debian, OpenSUSE, Arch, etc.

As for most popular Windows version, that would be Windows 7 followed
by XP.  Supposedly, only 30% of Windows machines still use XP, the majority
are supposedly updated to 7, or maybe they're all newer machines.

Distrowatch
http://distrowatch.com/

Wikipedia list/description of some Linux distro's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions

> Is anybody looking for a solution, too?

No.

The one XP laptop in our household will likely remain XP forever,
unless I get my hands on it. (insert evil laugh)

Unfortunately, the "closest" true replacement solution, a Windows clone,
still can't even boot a PC.  It's called ReactOS.  So, you're left with
either upgrading Windows, or converting to Linux, and occasionally using
Wine to run Windows programs, when needed.

> Does anybody have experience with any of these Linux flavors?

No.

> What are you doing?

I've built all but one of my PCs since the mid 1990's.  I install
whatever OS suits me.  I've been using Windows 98/SE for a long time.
I finally converted to Linux after many failed past attempts.  Most
of my immediate family members buy PCs or laptops or tablets with the
OS pre-installed, from major vendors or brands like Dell, Samsung, etc.
So, they get whatever the device was sold with.  I haven't checked,
but I'm sure most of my relatives are the same.  I'm only aware of a
handful of relatives who were rumored to have ever built a PC, but very
few of them seem to be into computers.  I.e., building your own PC from
parts tends to be for a small group of computer programmers and electrical
engineers or technicians, poor college students, or fanatical diehard  
gamers.

> What OS are you using?

(mf = member of family)

me <- 64-bit VLocity (VectorLinux) and Windows SE w/KernelEx
mf <- Windows XP (laptop - rarely online ... )
mf <- Windows 7 (laptop)
mf <- Windows Vista (mini-tower)
mf <- Android (tablet)

I also have a half dozen other machines that I no longer use.  Some
were machines I built.  Others were from friends or family members that
ran either 98 or ME.

If you're looking into Linux, one based off of Slackware will be
faster than those based off of Debian etc., but Slackware based
distro's aren't as popular, i.e., more likely to suffer from bit-rot,
old versions, out-of-date libraries, etc.

Since your PC apparently runs XP, one problem you might run into
is that certain hardware available on your machine might not be
supported in your chosen Linux.  I've had that problem with well
over a dozen Linux distro's since the mid 1990's from Slackware (3.2),
to Redhat (3.0.3, Shrike, Fedora), to Puppy, to many other distro's
you've never heard of.  Every PC prior to this one had at least
one piece of hardware Linux didn't support, from CD-ROMs, to
Win-modems, to USB devices, to Ethernet cards, etc.  The more generic
and low-end the motherboard and hardware the better.

You'll also want to back up every important file to permanent storage
media, e.g., burn to cd-rom or dvd, or copy to a spare hard drive.
Linux might be able to access your old Windows filesystem,
likely NTFS, but that requires installing a new harddrive for Linux
to preserve the XP NTFS formatted drive and files.  Or, you have to
risk repartitioning a drive with lots of data already on it, and
reformatting the new partition with lots of data already on the
drive ...  BTDT.  Sometimes, it works fine.  Other times, you'll
asked why you're cursed.

Mark mentioned SSDs (solid-state disk).  I bought one back in 2007.
They're very fast and exceptionally quiet, no hard disk whine or chatter,
but they have far less storage capacity as compared to a hard disk.  They
should help laptops boot *much* faster.  Laptops typically have very slow
hard drives as compared to those installed in normal PCs.  External USB
hard drives are usually slow too.  That's true even when you pull the
drive out of the external USB case and install it into a PC ...
Today, SSDs have an even faster interface.


Rod Pemberton

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#29164

visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote:
>[...] 
> I googled for ' best linux to replace windows xp ' - you need only to
> type ' best linux xp ', then this will be offered automatically.
> The top offers are PCLinuxOS, Linux-Mint, and Zoran.
> 
> Is anybody looking for a solution, too?
> Does anybody have experience with any of these Linux flavors?
> 
> What are you doing? What OS are you using?

On my old laptop I installed Slackware. A borrowed (also old and by now
disintegrating) laptop already had Ubuntu on it (which I kept out of
lazyness), and a notebook (a recent present) had already XP on it. The latter
will soon be Slackwared, for now I have augmented it with Cygwin in order
to have at least some operability (I have no use for Windows).

I also have two Blueflops floppies, just in case.

Personally I prefer Slackware over Ubuntu because it is more transparent
and does not try to push all this desktop nonsense.

On the other hand, you might want to consider 'Linux from Scratch'
( <www.linuxfromscratch.org/> ).
That would perhaps be more in the 'Forth-spirit' approach.

-- 
Marc

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#29166

visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote:

> I checked Windows 7 - programs which I developed on XP are running on
> Windows 7 - but to develop under Windows 7 is a real pain, Windows 7 is a
> real productivity killer. I am sure that Windows 8 isn't better.
> 
> I am sure April 8 was chosen to remind upgrading to Windows 8 - some kind
> of blackmail IMHO.
> 
> I googled for ' best linux to replace windows xp ' - you need only to type
> ' best linux xp ', then this will be offered automatically. The top offers
> are PCLinuxOS, Linux-Mint, and Zoran.
> 
> Is anybody looking for a solution, too?
> Does anybody have experience with any of these Linux flavors?
> 
> What are you doing? What OS are you using?
I've been on the Linux bandwagon for 15 straight years now. Always used
SuSE, because I read a lot of German mags. I moved to SuSE from Win 3.11,
so don't ask me about Win 95.

I've been forced (at work) to work with XP and compared to both the apps I
use under Linux as well as the OS itself it has been sheer horror, see:
http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.nl/2010/09/real-life-windows-xp.html

I still have WinXP on my work laptop, but recently it started to refuse to
shutdown (SIGTERM, SIGKILL, what can be so difficult about that?!)

On my Linux station I have a multitude of VM's under QEMU for e.g. Coherent,
Ben Nanonote (Mipsel), Linux Debian (x86_64), Raspberry Pi (ARM), ReactOS,
Win 98 and Win XP.

The Windows configurations are forbidden to go to the Internet and are
in "snapshot mode", so any changes to the disk image are completely
reverted when I shutdown. I use them primarily for testing and I don't like
to fix things that shouldn't be wrong in the first place.

Needless to say, I can't and won't recommend any Microsoft products. Go
Linux. Sure, you will need some time to adjust to the new apps and the OS,
do some conversion, but when you're done you'll never look back.

Dual boot isn't easy (with MS) so I recommend to use some kind of VM
configuration if you want to ease into the transition. H/W is fast enough
nowadays (just make sure you have plenty of memory for a memory hog like
Windows). Add SAMBA and you'll be able to access your favorite files under
both Linux and Windows. Added advantage: when you're done with Windows you
erase the image and you're home free.

Recommended S/W under Linux: LyX with LaTeX2RTF and eLyxer - can't beat
that. Graphviz (you'll never look at Visio again) and Dia. LibreOffice for
your spreadsheets. There isn't a real good replacement for Access.
Development tools - PLENTY. LAMP - we invented it.

Hope this helps.

Hans Bezemer

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#29167

My issue with Linux had always been the installation of software. It must be built from the source code and quite often it simply doesn't work. When it goes wrong is normally a dependency that is missing. Trouble is, as a newcomer you're totally in the dark as to how to fix the problem. When one asks on the Linux support the replies are often obnoxious or insulting, or both. For example "if you don't know how to do that then fuck off back to Windows". 

I always found it ironic that the "Linux crowd" are always advocating Linux (fair enough) then when you get stuck and ask for help you're about as welcome as a fart in a sleeping bag. 

I guess I'm tarring everyone with the same brush - not my intention,  just reflecting on my experience. 
I'll stick with Windows for now.

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#29168

Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> writes:
> My issue with Linux had always been the installation of software. It
> must be built from the source code and quite often it simply doesn't
> work.... When one asks on the Linux support the replies
> are often obnoxious or insulting, or both. 

Rather it's the other way.  There are pre-built binary packages for just
about everything, and the desire to build from source is seen as weird
or advanced (IMO this is not a good thing).  Packaging systems attempt
to track dependencies and they usually work, though they've had to get
more sophisticated over the years as the number of packages and
dependencies has increased.  Debian's apt packages have a huge userbase,
and Nixos/Guix use a new technical approach that is supposed to fix
remaining snags.  

I don't think there's such a thing as "Linux support" (unless you go
through a company like Red Hat) but I've generally been able to get good
help with Linux issues on IRC or internet forums like Stack Exchange.

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#29170

On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:15:51 PM UTC-4, Mark Wills wrote:
> My issue with Linux had always been the installation of software. ...

Thanks a lot for your remarks, Mark!
This correlates with my experience.

Nevertheless I used Puppy Linux to rescue my Windows Laptop several times when it got hit by a virus. Since I am using Malwarebytes I don't have any virus problems. I tried to convince the Malwarebytes people to extend their XP support, may be that worked.

Thanks to everybody for all the other hints, too!

That's why I ordered a dozen Linux flavors which are coming by mail tomorrow. Then I will see which Linux version I am able to live with.

Up to now I have checked Red Hat Fedora Linux (2005 Book), SuSe, Scientific Linux, and Linux-Mint (Downloads). I like Fedora, but a new version needs more RAM than XP, so I can't use it.

SuSe has great graphics, but is totally slow on my laptop, wondering why. Scientific Linux has a sophisticated picture, but doesn't run at all, without any message. Only Linux-Mint gives explanations about malfunction etc. It tells me on my DELL Latitude D600 that PAE is missing (Thanks AKK for mentioning this), telling me that I need another kernel. 

The time that Linux runs on old computers seems to be over.

I was lucky to get Linux-Mint running on my DELL Latitude D610 - as slow as SuSe, but it told me why: Linux-Mint couldn't use the graphics accelerator. So the good thing with Linux-Mint is that it tells why it is not working or not working properly. On a new PC Linux-Mint runs properly. 

Using Windows I did know that programs I wrote (using Forth of course) could be used by millions of people (I am glad some thousands did), but it just came to my mind how it will work if I offer programs for Linux? On how many systems do I have to test my software to be sure that everybody having a Linux system can load, start, and use it? With Windows I was sure that an XP program runs on all XP PCs. Since all my programs are based on Win32Forth, I had to adapt my programs with the new W7 version to get them running on W7. Now they run on XP and W7, and most of them on older Windows systems, too.

Windows 7 in my opinion is for Multimedia and Games, but not for somebody who is developing software like me. It is trashing productivity. 

Three examples:

XP showed open files in a row at the bottom of the screen. A click on the appropriate button, and the file was shown. W7 puts all files of a category on one place every time, so you need one click more to access a file.

If I like to save a file on a selected folder, I have to select this folder using several steps - every time. XP saved the selection, so it needed only one click. 

W7 has another organization of the directory path. With XP it was possible to copy a selected path to another tool. This is possible with W7, too, but not obvious. W7 needs several steps to do so. Time trashing.

It seems to be that one of the philosophies of Microsoft always has been to prevent the highest possible productivity. With W7 this is easy to recognize - if somebody cares.

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#29171

visualforth@rocketmail.com writes:
> Up to now I have checked Red Hat Fedora Linux (2005 Book), SuSe,
> Scientific Linux, and Linux-Mint (Downloads). I like Fedora, but a new
> version needs more RAM than XP, so I can't use it....
> The time that Linux runs on old computers seems to be over.

You are running big kitchen-sink distros and then complaining that they
don't run on small computers.  If you want something small, try Debian
and (if you want graphics) XFCE.  I run Debian just fine (with no window
system) on a 32 meg virtual server.  There are also embedded distros
like Angstrom (www.angstrom-distribution.org) but that's probably too
minimal for a desktop system.

Of course if you want to go all-out Forth, there is forthos.org ...

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#29172

On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:49:10 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote:
>  If you want something small, try Debian
> and (if you want graphics) XFCE.  

Thanks, Paul. I am sure I need to be a Linux expert to get running both together.
Only a Linux expert is able to tell which version is a big kitchen sink distro.

> Of course if you want to go all-out Forth, there is forthos.org ...

I once had running ForthOS on one of my laptops. 
ForthOS would be my choice, if I would know how to get graphics on it!

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#29173

visualforth@rocketmail.com writes:
>>  If you want something small, try Debian and (if you want graphics)
>> XFCE.
>
> Thanks, Paul. I am sure I need to be a Linux expert to get running
> both together.  Only a Linux expert is able to tell which version is a
> big kitchen sink distro.

To run XFCE with Debian, I think you just check a box for it during the
Debian installation dialogue.  Just how small a computer are you trying
to run this stuff on?

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